NEWBIE QUESTION: HOW DO I INSTALL APPS IN KNOPPIX 3.4?

[prodmaster]

I am a newbie to this Knoppix thing so please bear with me. If the answer is in faq section please point me to it. I have downloaded files with .rpm and .tar.gz ,could you guys please please explain to me how I installl programs with these extensions in Knoppix.
Your help will be greatly appreciated. :) :)

[firebyrd10]

well being a live cd distro you can't really install anything unless the only files are in your home directory. As for installing files (asuming you can) knoppix is a debian based distro and there for uses .deb files rather then rpms. how ever 3.4 does come with alien which changes rpms into .deb files.

oh and .tar.gz is a compressed file. Like a .zip file

for the most part files that are just compressed you can install to the home directory. files with .deb usually have to be installed else where and there for can't be installed intill you install knoppix to your hardrive.

[Craig2]

Go to -> K (start button on left side of menu) -> KNOPPIX -> utilities ->Install software (while running from cd).

After you select "install software..." a script written by probono (thanks probono!) will allow you to select from a handful of applications that can be installed in your home directory.

A while back, while probono was working on it, there seemed to be quite a few more scripts available than the few that present themselves in 3.4 I don't know if they are still available or usable, or not, because the installer tool is new to 3.4 He issued a request for help in more scripts for more programs (I'd help if I could) and more scripts, but I don't think anyone, or few people chipped in any help. That may have something to do with it.

btw, in case probono reads this, Quanta Plus is crashing when switching desktops. There have been some new patches released by the Quanta Plus developers, does the script have to be updated (in the next release?) or should I reinstall QP again, which would either overwrite the old installation, or is it like doing an apt-get upgrade? Or should I avoid reinstalling because it might mess up my install of QP?

[j.drake]

He issued a request for help in more scripts for more programs (I'd help if I could) and more scripts, but I don't think anyone, or few people chipped in any help.

Well, yeah, that's the problem for me too. If there were a set of instructions on how to write simple scripts (I used to write batch files all the time in the days of MS-DOS), I'd be more than happy to share any I developed. For example, I downloaded Firefox and Thunderbird for linux, simply because I like them better, but when I unzipped them there was no installation program or even a readme file to guide me in the use or installation. For Windows, you just click an install.exe file and a wizard does the work, seeking my input w/r/t specific questions.

So, if I'm running off CD, and have /hdb5/ as my persistent home and the location for my configuration files, do I simply dump all the files there? Can I create subfolders for each app? Do they need to go within (or, let me put it this way, SHOULD they be put within) a particular folder? Once I do store the files somewhere in there, I can't seem to find any file that I recognize as an executable -- which one is it?

I sense that there are a few people who are starting to resent doing all the heavy lifting, and seem to think that the rest of us are unappreciative (e.g., some of Fabian's posts quite rightfully ask the rest of us to help). Meanwhile, others are bitching about one thing or another that they want and don't have, and whining about not getting it fast enough, so I can understand the resentment. Many of the rest of us simply don't know WTH we're doing, so we try to give feedback when we see problems, but are otherwise incompetent to do more.

My point is, I wish I could help, and it's not for want or gratitude or desire, but for want of knowledge. If there's an easy, cookbook method to follow, such that I can text edit similar scripts and replace the file names, I'll be happy to do my own and share them. But I can't even make the damn programs run in the first place, much less write a script to automate the process for someone else.

JD

[nishtya]

j drake, happy to hear you may be a scripter 8) wish I could still do it :( but me too, I don't know WTH I am doing in linux :wink: Anyhow, if you want to look at the works of masters, you can look at Fabian's hd install script, take a peak at any of Kano's http://kanotix.com/files/ take special note of the "live CD" install scripts for things like Mplayer, etc. Also in that vein, check out Klik, klik.berlios.de and you can look into any of the live CD install scripts (they call them "recipes"), for instance: http://klik.berlios.de/index.php?viewrecipe=dbdesigner4

[firebyrd10]

the software installer by probono, are you taling about kilk?

[Craig2]

He issued a request for help in more scripts for more programs (I'd help if I could) and more scripts, but I don't think anyone, or few people chipped in any help.

Well, yeah, that's the problem for me too. If there were a set of instructions on how to write simple scripts (I used to write batch files all the time in the days of MS-DOS), I'd be more than happy to share any I developed. For example, I downloaded Firefox and Thunderbird for linux, simply because I like them better, but when I unzipped them there was no installation program or even a readme file to guide me in the use or installation. For Windows, you just click an install.exe file and a wizard does the work, seeking my input w/r/t specific questions.

Yeah, well, windows is, and was, easier to install. I was using windows exclusively about 3 years ago. And now, I'm using Linux exclusively. Windows is a simple download and click install, but you get better control with installing applications in Linux because there are so many options you have when installing the application, such as where to install, how to install, and many other "switches" that you can specify, which gives you more control over what you are doing. Also, the distros come with so many apps, that you don't have to install so many additionals ones, (or pay extra for each one, or steal), plus it is under such heavy development that new releases are coming frequently and getting better with every release, if you decide to upgrade. And if you decide not to, there is always the stable version of Debian. But there are so many other advantages that I could go on and on...and let's not forget the disadvantages. dll hell is replaced by dependency hell and broken packages. You either learn everything there is to learn about Linux (in effect you are forced to become a system administrator even though you may wish to just "install and use"), or you can't install what you want, or you end up with a broken system. And hoping some one will stop to help out. My OpenOffice German question still hasn't been answered. http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10309&sid=e097e122c6105aabc1e4c85dae61e270
and I asked the same question when 3.3 came out, and it was never answered. So if I need to use OpenOffice, I have to use someone else's computer, or I need to boot into an older release (3.3) of knoppix. And once you get used to the multiple desktops in Linux, you tend to leave a lot of apps running for weeks/months at a time, so booting using an older version of knoppix just to use OpenOffice is a major pita.


So, if I'm running off CD, and have /hdb5/ as my persistent home and the location for my configuration files, do I simply dump all the files there? Can I create subfolders for each app? Do they need to go within (or, let me put it this way, SHOULD they be put within) a particular folder? Once I do store the files somewhere in there, I can't seem to find any file that I recognize as an executable -- which one is it?

If you are talking about what I pointed out, (which someone else posted as "klik") then if you are normally logged in as knoppix user, you follow the directions I posted, and the download will be installed in the /home/knoppix/ directory, which is the ramdisk created when you boot up knoppix. After you install the applications available to klik, you have to save to your configuration file,
Go to -> K (start button on left side of menu) -> KNOPPIX -> Configure ->Save Knoppix Configuration (while running from cd).

and save to where you normally save your configuration file to. This wil create a directory in /home/knoppix, so if you are installing quanta, you will have /home/knoppix/quanta or home/knoppix/.quanta (hidden file with the dot), or something similar. If you don't save your configuration after this, it is erased when you shutdown and eject the cd, because it is installing in /home/knoppix, which is on your ramdisk. If creating the persistant home directory, like you did, REMOVED /home/knoppix, and put it in your persistant home (for knoppix) then there may not be a need to save the configuration. Try experimenting before doing work with the new programs.

I haven't made a persistant home directory. I'm running the live cd on top of an old install of another distro. So my home for knoppix is /home/knoppix on a ramdisk (and where quanta was saved) and my home for my other sign ons are at /mnt/sda1/username1 /mnt/sda2/username2. I haven't figured out how to get rid of knoppix user, nor move /home/knoppix to /mnt/sdax/ or anything similar. I tried, but it didn't work, so I left it alone. Knoppix for me, is a stopgap until I can install Sarge (as stable) on a file server, move data from my desktops onto the file server, then wipe the desktops and install unstable. If Knoppix didn't have "knoppix" user, and I was able to EASILY (like Mepis) sign on with my own user name, then maybe I'd stick with Knoppix on the desktop. But once installed to hard disk, it doesn't matter, its not knoppix anymore.

The klik application (if that is what the app installer is on 3.4) will create a directory in /home/knoppix, of the app you are installing. And it will install EVERYTHING inside that app directory, since it can't modify /etc /usr /bin or anything else on the cd. So you do nothing but select which app is available for the install, and it does everything else. When the script finishes, you have a working app. Whether you can modify the app after install, I don't know. Nor do I know if you can somehow apt-get upgrade the individual app for patches, or if if you should reinstall the app after the deb package has been upgraded with the patch on the debian servers. For example, a patch has been issued for Quanta Plus, after I installed it. Should I delete it, and reinstall it, so I get the newer version with the patch? Don't know. Or is the version of Quanta Plus I have permanently stuck for the klik installer until knoppix 3.5 comes out? Don't know. Can I get apt-get upgrade to work for it? I'll bet that even if it's possible, it would be way beyond my capabilities because klik's version of install a package is very different than apt-get's version. If Quanta Plus weren't crashing when I switched desktops, I wouldn't even worry about updating it with any patches. If I could only get Dreamweaver working on Linux without spending money on Crossover Office...


I sense that there are a few people who are starting to resent doing all the heavy lifting, and seem to think that the rest of us are unappreciative (e.g., some of Fabian's posts quite rightfully ask the rest of us to help). Meanwhile, others are bitching about one thing or another that they want and don't have, and whining about not getting it fast enough, so I can understand the resentment. Many of the rest of us simply don't know WTH we're doing, so we try to give feedback when we see problems, but are otherwise incompetent to do more.

Yeah, and I've had to take lessons from others on how to ask questions. Asking questions at at time of high frustration causes those questions to get asked in a way that brings resentment from developers and supporters of the particular project or distro. And that only adds to the frustration. And as for helping out, I've been wishing I could do more for some time. I can't program, so I can't help with that. Some say, if you can't program, help with documentation. Well, that doesn't appeal to me, (nor would I be too good at it, causing others to have to do work to correct my mistakes), and since it doesn't appeal to me, if I forced myself to do it, I know I would abandon it before it was finshed. So as I learn more, I'm able to answer a question here or there, and help out someone newer to Linux than me. And when 3.4 came out, even though I have a slow upload speed, I left bittorrent running for several days for others to download from me. And I still start it up from time to time. That was one way, even though its not much, of me contributing back.


My point is, I wish I could help, and it's not for want or gratitude or desire, but for want of knowledge. If there's an easy, cookbook method to follow, such that I can text edit similar scripts and replace the file names, I'll be happy to do my own and share them. But I can't even make the damn programs run in the first place, much less write a script to automate the process for someone else.

Look at the klik recipes. You may be able to figure that out. Otherwise, wait, and you'll find something else you can help with at some point. As I stated before, I help out others that are just getting started with Linux where possible. And I burn and hand out knoppix (and Mepis) to others (as well as the Gnu cds). I have a few knoppix/debian/linux converts under my belt, who didn't know anything about Linux, but jumped at the chance when they heard "no viruses" and "no popups".

Linux is worth learning. And its very frustrating for someone without a computer background, or knowing someone who can help you in person. But every painful step is mitigated by the pleasure of being one further step away from Microsoft products.

Get on a local lug mailing list. Check out the irc chat rooms. Get on the debian-user list (warning, very high volume). The suse-linux-e list is also good for general linux questions, even though suse is an rpm based distro. As for other debian lists, there are: announce, firewall, security, and testing (among many others) that are worth getting onto, if you can handle the volume. debian-user and the suse one are the two highest volume. They are good to search, but if you subscribe, you have a local repository of information to search, and I search mine almost daily, and on the days I do, there are more than one search. 64,000 emails in debian-user in the last 11 months, and its the most useful one out of all of them. And of course, don't forget the knoppix mailing list itself.

Good luck.

[j.drake]

So, if I'm running off CD, and have /hdb5/ as my persistent home and the location for my configurat

This wil create a directory in /home/knoppix.

If creating the persistant home directory, like you did, REMOVED /home/knoppix, and put it in your persistant home (for knoppix) then there may not be a need to save the configuration.


I sense that there are a few people who are starting to resent doing all the heavy lifting, and seem to think that the rest of us are unappreciative.

Many of the rest of us simply don't know WTH we're doing, so we try to give feedback when we see problems, but are otherwise incompetent to do more.

Some say, if you can't program, help with documentation.

Thanks, Craig. As it turned out, I was just doing some updating on the WIKI and experimenting with the Firefox installation, got it to work, I'm running Firefox on Knoppix now, and your post was the first one I saw!!

Basically, with /hdb5/ as my persistent home, I unzipped the firefox and thunderbird folders to my home directory. Within each folder, I noticed a shell script file, which had an 'sh' designation in the icon, superimposed on a monitor. I simply dragged the icon onto my desktop, and chose the create link option (In Windows language, I created a shortcut to the exe file, if you will). I can now click the shortcut to launch the browser, and when I'm done, save my configuration, making sure that I check the box to save desktop files.

I just got done adding several paragraphs to the Knoppix for Windows users how-to. One of the things I've noticed is that Linux people use a lot of salesmanship, but fail to recognize the strengths of Windows in the process (sometimes even dissing it altogether), which hurts credibility and trust, IMO. I tried to be a bit more comparative, and to explain Linux in Windows terms, wherever possible. As a result, it will probably appeal more to Windows users (which is the goal, after all) even if Linux die-hards might not like it as well. My stuff is toward the end. I also updated the persistent home how-to and the newbie how-to. Hope you all like it, and feel free to double-check or comment. You may be right where this is where I should focus. I write better than I code. :roll:

[j.drake]

Basically, with /hdb5/ as my persistent home, I unzipped the firefox and thunderbird folders to my home directory. Within each folder, I noticed a shell script file, which had an 'sh' designation in the icon, superimposed on a monitor. I simply dragged the icon onto my desktop, and chose the create link option (In Windows language, I created a shortcut to the exe file, if you will). I can now click the shortcut to launch the browser, and when I'm done, save my configuration, making sure that I check the box to save desktop files.

Well, now, that didn't workl :evil: Somehow, the folders didn't "stick" in my persistent home, and the desktop links didn't save either (even though I specifically checked the box to save files on my desktop when I saved my configuration). Anyhow, I tried Klik to download it this time, and all appears to be well.

JD

[probono]

A while back, while probono was working on it, there seemed to be quite a few more scripts available than the few that present themselves in 3.4 I don't know if they are still available or usable, or not, because the installer tool is new to 3.4

I expect most of the over 40 apps from http://klik.berlios.de to be working just fine in 3.4 - please report back. (The Live Installer in 3.4 has nothing to do with klik btw)


btw, in case probono reads this, Quanta Plus is crashing when switching desktops. There have been some new patches released by the Quanta Plus developers

Thanks for the information, I will include them next time.