My persistent home isn't persisting

[j.drake]

I set up /hdb5/ as the location for my persistent home, and I'm saving my configuration there also. I even used Klik to download firefox to that locaton. Before shutting down, I saved configuration there. On reboot, used "knoppix26 myconfig=scan home=scan", but my home files were gone, including firebird and all traces of Klik. Tried it with "knoppix26 myconfig=/dev/hdb5/ home=/dev/hdb5" also. The configuration (printer definition, wallpaper and the like) stays, but nothing in the persistent home does. It has worked before, but most of the time it seems not to. hdb5 has 312 MB free space out of 342 MB. When I click the home icon, it brings up /home/knoppix/, which is the default ramdisk. If within /home/knoppix I click the desktop, and then /hdb5/, I see the same icons, but config.tbz, knoppix.sh and a locked file called lost+found are in there too, but nothing else. Any ideas?

TIA

JD

[SunnyB]

If your home directory i something other than /home/knoppix, ie: /home/joe,
when you boot and use a persistent home, knoppix will restore all of the files
and directories from /home/joe to /home/knoppix. They will not be restored to /home/joe.
The only things that will be restored to /home/joe will be your config files and the /home/joe/Desktop files if you have chosen this option.

The only way I have been able to assure that my important files and directories are
restored to their original place is to install them into the desktop directory.

Hope this answers your question

[j.drake]

If your home directory i something other than /home/knoppix, ie: /home/joe,
when you boot and use a persistent home, knoppix will restore all of the files
and directories from /home/joe to /home/knoppix. They will not be restored to /home/joe.
The only things that will be restored to /home/joe will be your config files and the /home/joe/Desktop files if you have chosen this option.

The only way I have been able to assure that my important files and directories are
restored to their original place is to install them into the desktop directory.

Hope this answers your question

Mmm. . ., that's not the way it's working for me at all, I'm afraid.

Here's what I do. I click the penguin icon -> configure -> Create persistent home. Then I confirm that I want a persistent home. Then a list pops up, offering me a choice of different proposed locations - I select /dev/hdb5/, then click next (nothing appears which is a subdirectory of a home folder - e.g. /home/joe). I click OK, then it asks me if I want to do the entire partition, or just create an image - I say entire partition, then click Yes. Then it asks me if I'm sure, and warns that all data will be lost in the partition, and I click yes. Then it asks me if I want it encrypted, and I say No. Then it formats the partition, comes back with a screen telling me that the partition has been formatted in ext2, and telling me what the cheatcode is on reboot, and tells me that I can use it in conjunction with the cheat code for my config, if I want to. I click OK, believing that all is well.

Then, let's say I install Firefox using Klik, or, let's say that I install it to my home directory from the Mozilla website. Doesn't matter either way, IIRC. Then, let's say I change the wallpaper, or some other aspect of my configuration, click penguin -> configure - save KNOPPIX configuration, check the box to save all files on desktop, then OK. A list of locations pops up, and since I have room in my /mnt/hdb5/ partition, I check that box, then click OK. Now that the home has been created and the configuration saved, I restart. On restart I enter "knoppix26 home=scan myconfig=scan", or even "knoppix26 home=/dev/hdb5/ myconfig=/mnt/hdb5", it doesn't really matter as far as I can tell. The text goes by and gives every indication that all is well, that the config has been located, and more times than not, the desktop pops up with my saved configuration, but nothing is in my desktop except for the default items- no firefox, no shell script to launch. If I click the desktop folder, and then /hdb5/, I see the configuration file saved, but no firefox. I click K ->, but there's no Applications (Klik folder), and nothing to indicate that either Klik or Firefox had ever been installed. I can reinstall Firefox, but all of the bookmarks and extensions I had installed before are gone.

As far as I can tell, I'm following the instructions. The idea you suggest of installing to a home directory isn't made available to me in the installation script, so how do you specify this? And, out of curiosity, *which* desktop? Certainly, I don't see how you could install a persistent home to the ramdisk desktop, because that isn't saved. So, I assume you're talking about the desktop folder created in hdb5, right?

Thanks for your help.

JD

[eco2geek]

One thing that was true of previous versions of Knoppix, that's probably true of the current version as well (haven't tested it with 3.4):

Your config files and your persistent home must be loaded from separate partitions.

So if the saved config's loaded first, from hdb5, your persistent home won't be.

Try saving/loading your config files from a floppy (or whatever other free, writable partition you have) and your persistent home from hdb5, and see if that works. :?:

[SunnyB]

Whether they are on different drives / partitions or on the same makes no difference.
I have a 256Mb swap file on hda6,

I also have different knoppix.img & configs.tbz on all three partitions.
I use all three depending on what secondary software I want to use during that session.

The knoppix.img & configs.tbz on partition hda1 have Open Office 1.1.2, Firefox, Thunderbird.

The knoppix.img & configs.tbs on partition hda3 (where the swap file is) does not have Open Office but it does have a Trillian and Forte Agent directory.

The knoppix.img & configs.tbz on hda5 are a backup of hda1.

My knoppix.img is 500Mb. My configs.tbz is around 128Mb.

If you use a different user and a different /home directory and use the saveconfig command from the knoppix icon or from the /usr/sbin it does not correctly save your /home/director or configs. It looks for a current user "knoppix" and saves to that /home instead. Each time I use it the Desktop directory is reported as 0Kb. Empty. The only way I have found to save configs as a different user is by using the GKSU (Run as different user) command for the saveconfig & mkpersistenthome commands. Then the directory size is reported correctly.

I have also modified my knoppix.sh to extract the configs to my /home director then chown the entire directory to me:me. Otherwise there is nothing put into my /home directory.

I will eventually have different .img and configs.tbz files for different members of my family.
They can be specified by name. ie: sunnyb.tbz and sunnyb.img from the boot prompt.

[j.drake]

Whether they are on different drives / partitions or on the same makes no difference.

If you use a different user and a different /home directory and use the saveconfig command from the knoppix icon or from the /usr/sbin it does not correctly save your /home/director or configs. It looks for a current user "knoppix" and saves to that /home instead. Each time I use it the Desktop directory is reported as 0Kb. Empty. The only way I have found to save configs as a different user is by using the GKSU (Run as different user) command for the saveconfig & mkpersistenthome commands. Then the directory size is reported correctly..

I haven't set up any user accounts at all. In that event, does your statement mean that the process I used should work?

If not, then if I'm understanding you correctly, I have to bypass the GUI process and open up the terminal, and enter "GKSU saveconfig" and "GKSU mkpersistenthome" commands. If I do that, I assume that it will prompt me for a location, and I can enter hdb5. Or , do I need to "man GKSU " and employ a more complex syntax? I assume also that I'll have to create a user account (call it JD) in conjunction with this, and somehow work that into the bootcode sequence. Am I understanding correctly?

P.U.!! I'm having a real hard time understanding why it shouldn't be sufficient to follow the script prompts!! Do you guys think this qualifies as a bug?

[j.drake]

One thing that was true of previous versions of Knoppix, that's probably true of the current version as well (haven't tested it with 3.4):

Your config files and your persistent home must be loaded from separate partitions.

So if the saved config's loaded first, from hdb5, your persistent home won't be.

Try saving/loading your config files from a floppy (or whatever other free, writable partition you have) and your persistent home from hdb5, and see if that works. :?:

Thanks, I'll try that too. FWIW, I've tried switching the order of home=scan and myconfig=scan in the boot prompt, but it didn't make any difference.

JD

[j.drake]

Whether they are on different drives / partitions or on the same makes no difference..

Now thqat you mention it, when I run the script, one of them specifically instructs that they can be run together.



If not, then if I'm understanding you correctly, I have to bypass the GUI process and open up the terminal, and enter "GKSU saveconfig" and "GKSU mkpersistenthome" commands.

Well, I tried that, and I even tried inserting a "-u". Neither command executed. I must not be understanding you.

JD

[j.drake]

Try saving/loading your config files from a floppy (or whatever other free, writable partition you have) and your persistent home from hdb5, and see if that works. :?:

Nope, And ver. 05-17 didn't help either.

[SunnyB]

GKSU can be ran from the menu.
Knoppix / System / Run As Different User (GKSU)
Type in saveconfig then click on advanced.
Click on Preserve Environment then Close.
Now click on OK. It will prompt you for the root password.
It will then ask if you want to save the desktop along with all the other configs.
Check Desktop. It should also give you the size of the desktop in Kb.
It will then prompt you to pick a partition or a floppy drive.
When it completes it will tell you it has been successful.

Saving a persistenthome is about the same but be careful with the third prompt.
It prompts you if you want to make a persistenthome, then it prompts you for
the partition, then it asks if you want to use the entire partition or just make a file.
If you chose wrong it will prompt you one more time before formatting the partition.

If you chose to just make a file it will tell you how big your /home is so you can
pick the size of the persistenthome file accordingly.

HTH

[eco2geek]

Nope, And ver. 05-17 didn't help either.

H'mm. Dunno why it's not working, and I don't have the scripting abilities of SunnyB. But you can do weird things like this:

(persistent home is on the root of hdb2, an ext3 partition, and named "knoppix.img;" saved configs are on hda5)

boot: knoppix26 myconf=/dev/hda5 2

... Knoppix starts up into text mode ...

root@tty1[root]#cd /home
root@tty1[home]#rm -rf knoppix
root@tty1[home]#mkdir knoppix
root@tty1[home]#mount -t ext3 -o rw /dev/hdb2 /mnt/hdb2
root@tty1[home]#mount -o loop,rw /mnt/hdb2/knoppix.img /home/knoppix
root@tty1[home]#passwd knoppix
Enter new UNIX password:
Retype new UNIX password:
passwd: password updated successfully

... unless you've already set one ...

root@tty1[home]#login knoppix
Password:

... Debian startup messages appear ...

knoppix@tty1[knoppix]$startx

That puts you in KDE with /mnt/hdb2/knoppix.img mounted as your home dir. One would imagine you could choose amongst several persistent home dirs this way.

[SunnyB]

Changing the knoppix.sh is not so difficult.
You can accomplish a lot regarding where everything is placed before boot.
This is my knoppix.sh with a few changes:

#!/bin/sh
[ "`id -u`" = "0" ] || { echo "You need root privileges to modify the system!" >&2 ; exit 1; }
[ -d "$1" ] && CONFIGS="$1/configs.tbz"
[ -f "$CONFIGS" ] || CONFIGS="/cdrom/KNOPPIX/configs.tbz"
[ -f "$CONFIGS" ] || CONFIGS="/mnt/floppy/configs.tbz"
if [ -f "$CONFIGS" ]; then
echo "Extracting config archive $CONFIGS..."
tar -jpPtf "$CONFIGS" | while read i; do rm -f "$i"; done # this is where the configs are put in the /home/knoppix dir

.jpPxf "$CONFIGS" ; chown -R sunnyb.sunnyb /home/sunnyb # I added this to copy everything to my /home dir and make it mine.
fi

chown -R sunnyb.sunnyb /home/knoppix # this makes /home/knoppix mine.

cp -R -p /home/knoppix/.local/share /home/sunnyb/.local/ ; chown -R sunnyb.sunnyb /home/sunnyb # this I needed to make Open Office 1.1.2 work.

cp -R -p /home/knoppix/.kde/share/applnk/Office /home/sunnyb/.kde/share/applnk/ ; chown -R sunnyb.sunnyb /home/sunnyb # this I also needed to make Open Office 1.1.2 work.

killall pump 2>/dev/null && sleep 2 && killall -9 pump 2>/dev/null && sleep 2
echo "Starting daemons..."
for i in ifupdown networking cupsys; do [ -x /etc/init.d/$i ] && /etc/init.d/$i start; done

lisa # this is the most simple method to start the lisa daemon at boot.


This is working right now and everything is OK. I just tried the "nowheelmouse" option and boot and the 5 to 10 second delay in the mouse functions seem to be gone now.

The extra line spaces are for clarity. If you should use these just be careful to make hard returns at the end of each line and save the file as a "UNIX / AMIGA" type.

[bfree]

I set up /hdb5/ as the location for my persistent home, and I'm saving my configuration there also. I even used Klik to download firefox to that locaton. Before shutting down, I saved configuration there. On reboot, used "knoppix26 myconfig=scan home=scan", but my home files were gone, including firebird and all traces of Klik.
Just to be clear, if you use mkpersistenthome it does not copy your current home in the newly created persistent home. Before you use the newly created persistent home you must reboot with the home=scan (or home=/dev/hdb5). Until you reboot your home dir is still the ramdisk, post reboot you can go and use klik etc and expect your changes to stay.

Someone else mentioned problems with haveing conf and home on the same partition, this is not a problem if you are using loopback files on the partitions, but if you are using the entire partition I'm not sure what will happen and perhaps that could lead to problems.

[j.drake]

Before you use the newly created persistent home you must reboot with the home=scan (or home=/dev/hdb5).

OK, maybe that explains it. I created it, then downloaded, then rebooted with flags, expecting the stuff to be there. If I'm understanding correctly, I need to create, then reboot with flags, then save to home directory (/knoppix/home/, not /mnt/hdb5/). I'll try that. Thanks.

JD

[j.drake]

Nope, still doesn't work.

[SunnyB]

j.drake, please post the entire sequence of things you do in order to saveconfig and mkpersistenthome. Then post the boot commands that you are using, ie:

j.drake 2 lang=us myconfig=/mnt/hda5 home=/mnt/hda5

Il try to help you get this going.

[j.drake]

WOW! That's really generous of you! Thank you so much for all the time you and the others are spending to help me on this.

OK, starting clean with a simple knoppix26 at boot this time, I opened this up with Konqueror, and will type as I do each step.

Now, I'm doing Penguin icon -> Configure -> Create a persistent KNOPPIX home directory -> Yes ->/dev/hdb5/ -> OK -> Yes -> Yes -> No -> OK (IOW, I told it that I wanted it on /hdb5/, but no encryption).

Now, I'm doing Penguin icon -> Configure -> Save KNOPPIX Configuration -> (check all boxes) OK -> /mnt/sda1/ (just in case eco2geek's theory is correct, I'll save to USB thumbdrive) -> OK -> OK

Now, I'm going to submit this post, exit Konqueror, K -> Logout -> Restart

Back in a mo'

JD

[j.drake]

OK back again, after knoppix26 home=scan myconfig=scan

The saved config obviously worked, as evidenced by the text on boot, as well as the fact that it picked up my resizing of the toolbar. I'm in Konqueror typing this.

I opened a new tab in Konqueror, loaded the forum, and found the instructions for klik. Followed the link, ran the command, OK, Yes, (clicked the Firefox hyperlink) Follow, Yes, Yes, Yes

Firefox loaded.

Closed the excess Konqueror tabs and windows, closed Firefox -> Yes

Clicked the home icon on the toolbar and verified that the Firefox empty box icon is there. Also verified that K -> Applications (installed by klik) -> Firefox exists and works.

Closed Firefox. Will submit this post, exit logoff and restart as before.

Back in a mo'

JD

[j.drake]

It's me again. This time, knoppix26 home=scan myconfig=scan

Here via Konqueror again. Checking out Firefox. K -> (There's no application folder here!! And, obviously, no Firefox link within)

Checking the home icon. (nothing but desktop & tmp folders at /home/knoppix/)

So far, no good

Finally, no signs of Firefox in /mnt/hdb5/

By my reckoning, that means it don't flippin' work :!:

At least the configuration is staying put. :wink:

JD

[eco2geek]

Some questions for you:

- What if, instead of using "scan," you explicitly specify to Knoppix where your config & home are? e.g.

knoppix26 myconf=/dev/sda1 home=/dev/hdb5

(or whatever your thumb drive is -- sda1? -- I don't got one yet :( )

- Do you have more than one hard disk partition with a "knoppix.img" file at the root of it? I think you said you did, and if that's the case, it may not be loading the one you want with the "scan" cheatcode.

- When Knoppix boots, do you see a message where it tells you it's loading your persistent home, and which partition it's loading it from, before X starts? (You should.)

- If you mount "knoppix.img" on hdb5 as a loopback device, does the FireFox directory show up?

[SunnyB]

You didn't mention where Firefox was being installed.
I assume /home/jdrake/Firefox.
Saveconfig does not do well at saving directories in your home.
I have always had a problem making anything persist
that was not in the Desktop directory. After many attempts
I finally had to install Firefox and Thunderbird in the Desktop
directory. If you show the Desktop icons it will become cluttered
quickly. Since I don't show Desktop icons that is no problem
for me.

Try installing Firefox in the Desktop and see if that works.

[j.drake]

Some questions for you:

- What if, instead of using "scan," you explicitly specify to Knoppix where your config & home are? e.g.

knoppix26 myconf=/dev/sda1 home=/dev/hdb5

(or whatever your thumb drive is -- sda1? -- I don't got one yet :( )


I don't think that's it (w/r/t the configuration), because knoppix is clearly finding the configuration file in whatever location is applicable. As I said, the prompts on boot pick it up, and it does, in fact, retain the configuration. As far as I can tell, saving and retrieving configuration is fine, whether on hdb5 or sda1.

Also, I have tried specifying the location of the config file and home before (I don't recall specifying /sda1 in a boot prompt, but like I said, there's no problem locating and finding the config file.

As for the thumb drive, don't deprive yourself! Watch the Sunday tech ads - someone always has one for $10-$20 after rebates, usually an office supply store. I go for the small, cheap ones to serve as floppy disk replacements. They aren't big enough to economically replace CDs yet, but I predict that vendors will soon be giving them away as freebies at tech shows with trial software and promotional software before long. Who knows- this time next year you may open your mailbox and find one with AOL 12.0 on it and 10,000 free hours to burn in the first month! :wink:


Do you have more than one hard disk partition with a "knoppix.img" file at the root of it? I think you said you did, and if that's the case, it may not be loading the one you want with the "scan" cheatcode.

Not to my knowledge, and not by intention. I haven't actually searched; though. Insofar as the CD with the Knoppix disk is also /hdc1/ (IIRC), would that be the problem?


When Knoppix boots, do you see a message where it tells you it's loading your persistent home, and which partition it's loading it from, before X starts? (You should.)

Yes.


If you mount "knoppix.img" on hdb5 as a loopback device, does the FireFox directory show up?

I don't know, I'm not sure I know what it means to mount as a loopback device.

Thanks,

JD

[j.drake]

You didn't mention where Firefox was being installed.
I assume /home/jdrake/Firefox.
Saveconfig does not do well at saving directories in your home.
I have always had a problem making anything persist
that was not in the Desktop directory. After many attempts
I finally had to install Firefox and Thunderbird in the Desktop
directory. If you show the Desktop icons it will become cluttered
quickly. Since I don't show Desktop icons that is no problem
for me.

Try installing Firefox in the Desktop and see if that works.

It's installed where klik installs it. klik doesn't offer an option.

:idea: Maybe the problem isn't persistent home, but klik! Maybe klik isn't appropriate for Live-CD users with a persistent home, and maybe this is a failing of klik rather than Knoppix. Hmmmm. . . . , most likely the folks using klik are hd installers, and are unaware of this limitation, if that's the problem. . . .:idea: I'll have to do some more checking on this - I was using klik for convenience, but maybe I need to try a download from the mozilla.org site to a specific home location and see what happens, or even just save a dummy text file.

As I recall (I'm in windows now, so I can't check), klik installs Firefox at /home/knoppix/, with an icon that looks like an empty cardboard box, and there's a special kind of script for launching (can't recall the buzzword now).

Here's a hint frm post#1 of the klik thread: "Because one software package is always exactly just one directory within ~/, you can always delete software packages without any problems for other software." see, http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=34776#34776

[eco2geek]

Who knows- this time next year you may open your mailbox and find one with AOL 12.0 on it and 10,000 free hours to burn in the first month!

Oh man, one could only hope! At least when they sent out the floppies you could reuse them! Now their damn CDs just fill up landfills. Hmph.

I tried downloading FireFox with klik and FireFox doesn't work -- it complains about not being able to find the Mozilla runtime directory -- haven't read the forum posts about it yet -- but at least it's still there when I restore my persistent home!

By mounting your "knoppix.img" file (which is the file your persistent home is saved in) as a loopback device, I mean:

One of my "knoppix.img" files is at the root of /dev/hdb1, which is an ext3 partition. So mount that read-write:

mount -t ext3 -o rw /dev/hdb1 /mnt/hdb1

Then mount "knoppix.img" on /mnt/hdb1 read-write:

mount -o loop,rw /mnt/hdb1/knoppix.img /mnt/test

Then cd into /mnt/test, and you should see the contents of your persistent home dir. You can write to it, copy files from it, etc. (I have another "knoppix.img" on /dev/hda5, a vfat partition, and can mount it the same way.)

Does that work for you?

[SunnyB]

I also had a problem using klik. Nothing it installed persisted.
I had to manually move these things either to the desktop or to the
knoppix.img file.

The latest firefox build for linux is : Latest Firefox (http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-trunk/firefox-i686-linux-gtk2+xft-installer.tar.gz)

After you extract to a temp directory run the installer. I use the install at each new build and they work great.

[j.drake]

I also had a problem using klik. Nothing it installed persisted.
I had to manually move these things either to the desktop or to the
knoppix.img file.

The latest firefox build for linux is : Latest Firefox (http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-trunk/firefox-i686-linux-gtk2+xft-installer.tar.gz)

After you extract to a temp directory run the installer. I use the install at each new build and they work great.

Thanks, I wasn't aware of a linux installer. When I went to the mozilla.org site, the links took me to a linux version without an installer, and I had to move it where I wanted it and use the shell script to run. Before I learned where to find the Windows installer, I had a devil of a time making all the add-ins work (e.g., flash, shockwave). The installer version made that easy. Why Mozilla won't make it easy to find their installer versions, I don't know.

I'm in Windows now at work. When I get a chance to run Knoppix at home again I'll test out the "buggy klik" theory by booting with 'knoppix26 home=scan myconfig=scan', and run the installer you linked, instead of klik. If the theory is right, the persistent home should still exist from before, even if the klik-ed program didn't persist. If that doesn't work, I'll make a clean persistent home on hdb5, reboot with the same flags, and try your link again.

Thanks for sticking with me on this. I really do appreciate your patience and help.
JD

[j.drake]

I tried downloading FireFox with klik and FireFox doesn't work -- it complains about not being able to find the Mozilla runtime directory -- haven't read the forum posts about it yet -- but at least it's still there when I restore my persistent home!

Wierd, I have the opposite result. Klik installs it great, and I can run it during that same Knoppix session, but it doesn't stick around until the next one.


By mounting your "knoppix.img" file (which is the file your persistent home is saved in) as a loopback device, I mean:

One of my "knoppix.img" files is at the root of /dev/hdb1, which is an ext3 partition. So mount that read-write:

mount -t ext3 -o rw /dev/hdb1 /mnt/hdb1

Then mount "knoppix.img" on /mnt/hdb1 read-write:

mount -o loop,rw /mnt/hdb1/knoppix.img /mnt/test

Then cd into /mnt/test, and you should see the contents of your persistent home dir. You can write to it, copy files from it, etc. (I have another "knoppix.img" on /dev/hda5, a vfat partition, and can mount it the same way.)

Does that work for you?

The "Create a persistent home" script carries an option of saving the persistent home to a file (which is what I assume your knoppix.img file to be), or dedicating an entire partition to the persistent home. I chose to do the latter, as I already had a large partition mapped out from a previous Mandrake dual boot install, and I assumed (possibly wrongly) that assigning an entire partition would work better than creating a file. I'm going to try the "Klik is buggy" theory in my previous post first, and it that doesn't work, I'll try creating the PH using the file method instead. If that doesn't work (or even if it does and I'm just bored and curious :wink: ), I'll try your loopback suggestion.

Thanks again for sticking with me and offering some good suggestions. Dual boot HD installs are neat, and once Knoppix standardizes on the 2.6 kernel, and works the bugs out of captive NTFS, and other issues, such that I can just tee it up and go without cheatcodes and workarounds, I may try dual booting from HD again (after a thorough backup, this time). Until then, I'm still a little gun shy, and would prefer to stick with live CD and persistent home, if it will work. I have to share this computer with a wife who has no patience for the challenges of working with or debugging linux installs. OTOH, might be fun instead if I can perfect the PH andsaved configurations as files on the removable thumbdrive, together with captive NTFS drivers (and especially if I can boot from the thumbdrive too), so that the stock CD and thumbdrive will provide me with portable access to virtually anything I want from most PCs.

JD

[eco2geek]

The "Create a persistent home" script carries an option of saving the persistent home to a file (which is what I assume your knoppix.img file to be), or dedicating an entire partition to the persistent home. I chose to do the latter, as I already had a large partition mapped out from a previous Mandrake dual boot install

OK, now I get it. Pardon me for being dense. :oops: I thought you were saving your persistent home to a file (aka "knoppix.img").

(So, since I've just installed Knoppix to hard disk, with /home on a separate partition, I'll have to play around with the live CD and see if it will use the /home partition, like you're trying to do.)


I already had a large partition mapped out from a previous Mandrake dual boot install

How big is it? 5GB is enough to install Knoppix, and you can choose to install LILO to the root of that partition, rather than your MBR, and use a boot floppy.


Dual boot HD installs are neat, and once Knoppix standardizes on the 2.6 kernel, and works the bugs out of captive NTFS, and other issues, such that I can just tee it up and go without cheatcodes and workarounds, I may try dual booting from HD again (after a thorough backup, this time). Until then, I'm still a little gun shy, and would prefer to stick with live CD and persistent home, if it will work. I have to share this computer with a wife who has no patience for the challenges of working with or debugging linux installs.

I know what you mean, having ended up with broken dual boots on a couple of occasions -- and the last time it happened, I was sure I knew what I was doing. That was painful.

Fortunately, my wife and I now have separate computers (she doesn't want to deal with the outcome of my experiments either :wink: ). And I've found that using the Windows version of GRUB, made by the Topologilinux folks, run by NTLdr, works really well (but it only works if you've got WinNT/2K/XP, not Win9x).

[eco2geek]

After hiding all the "knoppix.img" files lurking at the root of various partitions (necessary because Knoppix will mount "knoppix.img" instead of the actual partition if it finds it), I tried mounting /dev/hdb1 (which is my /home partition on my Knoppix hard disk installation) as "home" with the live Knoppix CD. Works fine.

This is using Knoppix v3.4-2004-05-17-EN.
It was started with knoppix26 myconf=/dev/hda5 home=/dev/hdb1
I got no notification of any kind (in the boot messages) that Knoppix had successfully mounted hdb1 as home.
Curiously, hdb1 was mounted on /home/knoppix, rather than simply /home.
And, of most relevance to this discussion, everything -- the dot (config) files and directories; the Desktop directory; the FireFox software (installed using klik); and Quanta (installed using Franz's script) -- is still there when I boot back into my hard disk install of Knoppix, and still there when I run the live CD again.

Don't know what to tell you.

[j.drake]

Well, flip. Seems to be working now.

I redid the PH as before, fresh in /dev/hdb5
installed Firefox per SunnyB's link, changing install location to home
created a link on my desktop for the firefox shell script
Saved configuration at /dev/sda1
rebooted using knoppix26 home=/dev/hdb5 myconfig=/dev/sda1

All is well.

Thank you SunnyB and eco2geek for all your help :!: :!: :!:

[j.drake]

Interesting development . . . .

Because my thumbdrive was full and I was having problems clearing it (I think now that I had forgotten to uncheck the read-only box - doh!!), I decided to revisit the issue of saving the configuration to the same partition as my persistent home. So, I saved the configuration to /mnt/hdb5, the same as my PH, logged out, logged into Windows, cleared my thumbdrive, and rebooted Knoppix. So, I entered the bootcode 'knoppix26 home=/dev/hdb5 myconfig=/dev/hdb5'. It found the PH, but hung on the config, so I figured that SunnyB must be right about needing to be a different location. So, then I typed the bootcode 'knoppix26 home=/dev/hdb5', leaving out the myconfig argument entirely, and I figured I would simply copy the configs.tbz file back to the thumbdrive, and reboot once I have the configuration file relocated. Well I couldn't copy the file back to the thumbdrive (because I forgot to uncheck read only), and then I noticed that my configuration was already loaded, even though I hadn't asked in the boot code.

So, it appears to me that if you set up a partition as a PH, and save your configuration to it, it looks as if you don't even have to bother with the myconfig bootflag - it's grabbed automatically when the PH is enabled. Cuts my typing in half!!

Just curious to see if it works for anyone else - this may be a cool one to add to the tips and tricks.

[el_supremo]

J.Drake - have you resolved the issue yet? I think I know what's wrong.


Now, I'm doing Penguin icon -> Configure -> Create a persistent KNOPPIX home directory -> Yes ->/dev/hdb5/ -> OK -> Yes -> Yes -> No -> OK (IOW, I told it that I wanted it on /hdb5/, but no encryption).

Now, I'm doing Penguin icon -> Configure -> Save KNOPPIX Configuration -> (check all boxes) OK -> /mnt/sda1/ (just in case eco2geek's theory is correct, I'll save to USB thumbdrive) -> OK -> OK

I think much of your problem is because you have saved your home directory twice. Once as a persistent home and once in the configuration file.
When knoppix boots, it will first restore your persistent home from /dev/hdb5/knoppix.img and then it will restore everything in your /dev/sda1/configs.tbz file, including a lot of information from your home directory, which will overwrite much of what was there from the persistent home.

The cure is simple. Once you have created a persistent home you must never check the "Personal Configuration" in the "Save KNOPPIX configuration" dialog again. And to make sure of things, immediately after you create the persistent home, you should save a configuration (without the personal configuration) to make sure that any existing configs.tbz file you are using doesn't already contain a personal configuration.

Best Wishes
Pete

[j.drake]

Interesting thought. I was saving configs to USB because someone had pointed out that they had problems saving PH and configs to same location. I think the key for me was that I was messing up the process of the PH setup to begin with. I was creating it, and immediately trying to populate it, without rebooting first and asking the computer to find it. (Oh, and BTW, my PH was the partition option, so I don't think the file was an issue). I think you're correct that there's an overlap between the two, and I've found sometimes that if I save config to the PH, reboot with the home= cheatcode, and forget the myconfig cheatcode, that it sometimes picks up the saved config anyway.

The PH is still kind of a mystery. I've had occasions where it just seemed to "forget" its own existence, and then suddenly awake from its coma with a subsequent reboot.

As for myself, I really don't understand why the two scripts aren't combined in the first place. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I would bet that the overwhelming majority of people who want one would want the other. In fact, it occurred to me while I was putting the simplified poor man's howto together that the only real variable in the installation is the location, size and fstype of the storage location - seems a natural for a script, right? In fact, I'd love to see it (poorman's with PH & saved config) as an option in knoppix-installer to give hd functionality to windows-dependent newbies. Clearly beyond my capabilities, but it's an idea that someone else could run with. After all, now that we have on the fly program installations for liveCD and poorman's, including Fabian's experimental APT for live CD. Sure does dispense with the limitations of live CD.

jd

[CrashedAgain]

One thing that was true of previous versions of Knoppix, that's probably true of the current version as well (haven't tested it with 3.4):

Your config files and your persistent home must be loaded from separate partitions.


This is not strictly true; you don't have to have separate partitions but I don't think you can put the config files inside the persistent home.

I have persistent home as a file and the config file on hda6 (vfat) which works OK with Knoppix 3.4 as a toHD install on hda1 booted from lilo on the MBR. (other system is winME also on hda1).
I have had problems trying to specify where /home and config are located, I just use home=scan & config=scan in which case Knoppix will use the first config file it finds if there is more than one. Avoid having more than one. If you have multiple users, set them up as users in the normal way ie same boot but boot into kdm & have kdm log in the selected user.

[j.drake]

This is not strictly true; you don't have to have separate partitions but I don't think you can put the config files inside the persistent home.

Well, like I said, I've done it, and it even seemed to work to not put the myconfig cheatcode in at all. But I'll give it another try. I have a great excuse - I just upgraded my WinXP drive to 250GB from 80, so I'm moving stuff around, and, to make a long story short, I wiped out all my linux partitions on the second hd, giving me the perfect opportunity to check it out all over again.:D


I have had problems trying to specify where /home and config are located, I just use home=scan & config=scan in which case Knoppix will use the first config file it finds if there is more than one. Avoid having more than one. If you have multiple users, set them up as users in the normal way ie same boot but boot into kdm & have kdm log in the selected user.

Just the opposite for me. I specify, and it seems to work better. Go figure.

jd

[eco2geek]

This is not strictly true; you don't have to have separate partitions but I don't think you can put the config files inside the persistent home.

OK, I'll try it out (loading saved configs and persistent home from the same partition). Pretty sure it was true at one point (back in version 3.2).


I have had problems trying to specify where /home and config are located, I just use home=scan & config=scan in which case Knoppix will use the first config file it finds if there is more than one. Avoid having more than one. If you have multiple users, set them up as users in the normal way ie same boot but boot into kdm & have kdm log in the selected user.

Erm, this is why I have stickies along the bottom of my monitors with cheatcodes for Knoppix & Kanotix on them...

Running kdm for a "fromhd" install is an interesting idea, but how do you get Knoppix to load the persistent home for the user who logs in?


When knoppix boots, it will first restore your persistent home from /dev/hdb5/knoppix.img and then it will restore everything in your /dev/sda1/configs.tbz file, including a lot of information from your home directory, which will overwrite much of what was there from the persistent home.

Interesting. If you take a look inside the "configs.tbz" archive you find this is true. Couldn't one simply delete the "/home/" part of the archive and leave the "/etc/" part?

[el_supremo]

Interesting. If you take a look inside the "configs.tbz" archive you find this is true. Couldn't one simply delete the "/home/" part of the archive and leave the "/etc/" part?

Yes, you could do that if you have already saved your personal configuration in a configs file that you need, but next time you save configs it's easier to leave out the personal configs. Not only does it prevent the problem we've been disussing but it also makes the configs file much smaller.

Best Wishes
Pete

[Flash00]

I'm not sure if I'm changing the subject or not. I read the previous posts in this thread and they seem related to my problem. Anyway, here goes:

I've tinkered around with Linux (dual-boot: Windows 2000 Pro + Mandrake 9.2, recently upgraded to 10.0) and Knoppix for a few years now. I saved my Knoppix 3.4 configuration in the (default) Mandrake home partition. The cheatcode to restore my configuration (knoppix myconfig=/mnt/hda8) works fine in Knoppix 3.4 but not in 3.6. When I boot the 3.6 CD and enter the cheatcode, everything seems to go normally until the point where the desktop should show up. Instead, it hangs, giving a grey screen with a black cross in the middle.

I've tried booting the CD with no cheat code and it works fine. I've tried booting it with the linux26 (2.6 kernel) cheatcode and that works fine. So it looks to me like the Knoppix I downloaded and burned on the CD is not corrupt, but rather Knoppix 3.6 can't properly use a configuration saved from 3.4.

Am I right? Any suggestions?

Thanks,

- Flash

[el_supremo]

Knoppix 3.6 can't properly use a configuration saved from 3.4.

Am I right? Any suggestions?

That's right. I had the same problem and at the moment I can't remember exactly how I solved it. I know I looked in the configs.tbz file to see what was in there and assumed that it would have to be something to do with kde or the X server settings. I decided to delete something from the configs file, try a reboot and see what happened and the first thing I deleted fixed it. But I can't remember what it was I deleted but I think it was the /etc/X11 directory which only has two entries. If I remember exactly what it was I did, I'll let you know.
If you are comfortable meddling with the .tbz file you could try it yourself.

Best Wishes
Pete

[Flash00]

That's right. I had the same problem and at the moment I can't remember exactly how I solved it. <> If I remember exactly what it was I did, I'll let you know.
If you are comfortable meddling with the .tbz file you could try it yourself.

Best Wishes
Pete

Thanks. I'm afraid my experience with Linux hasn't got as far as meddling with any files yet; my tinkering has been mainly the point-and-click variety. I'm willing to try it though, if you can remember what you did. I assume the .tbz file in question is somewhere in my Mandrake Linux partition on the hard drive. I don't use the Mandrake Linux much because it doesn't include MythTV, so I can't use my Hauppauge PVR TV tuner card. I haven't bothered learning how to install the MythTV because of other problems with Mandrake's version of Linux. For instance Yahoo mail isn't fully functional in Linux. One good thing about Mandrake's Linux is the installation program, which seems to be flawless. Even an idiot like me can install Linux on a Windows machine - actually, three machines - without a hitch.

Knoppix is a new direction in using computers which has a lot of interesting potential, so I want to keep up with it. I thought I read somewhere else in the forum that 3.6 includes some kind of program which makes remastering easier. Is that true?

- Flash

[el_supremo]

I discovered that I had actually written down what I did to fix the problem with configs.tbz :-)
I deleted the /etc/X11 directory (which contains two files) from the archive and then V3.6 would boot.
In a shell, type these commands (I've added comments to explain what they do):


# Mount the device where the configs file is located - it might already be mounted
mount /mnt/hda8
# and go to that directory
cd /mnt/hda8
# Make a backup copy of the file just in case - I add today's date in the form YYMMDD to the filename.
cp configs.tbz configs_040902.tbz
# decompress the file
bunzip2 configs.tbz
# Delete the /etc/X11 directory from the archive
tar vf configs.tar --delete /etc/X11
# Recompress it
gzip2 -9 configs.tar
# and move it back
mv configs.tar.bz2 configs.tbz


Then reboot and it should come up OK.

Best Wishes
Pete

[Flash00]

Thanks for the detailed instructions El Supremo. I tried them out last night from within Mandrake but without success. Entering the commands from a shell as root resulted in error messages that didn't make any sense to me. I did find the .tbz files in a GUI, which said the X11 file size was 0 bytes, perhaps because it was zipped. I didn't have time to play with it. I plan to try it again this weekend, perhaps from the Knoppix CD rather than Mandrake.

I could use Knoppix 3.6 but the question occurred to me: Couldn't I use Knoppix 3.4 to delete the file, then reboot with the 3.6 CD?

By the way, does the Knoppix 3.6 CD contain some sort of program to aid customizing and remastering? I think I read somewhere that it does.

Thanks again

[zealot]

yeah it works for me as well!! I only type knoppix home=/dev/sda1 at boot prompt and I got my config back...

zealot


Interesting development . . . .

Because my thumbdrive was full and I was having problems clearing it (I think now that I had forgotten to uncheck the read-only box - doh!!), I decided to revisit the issue of saving the configuration to the same partition as my persistent home. So, I saved the configuration to /mnt/hdb5, the same as my PH, logged out, logged into Windows, cleared my thumbdrive, and rebooted Knoppix. So, I entered the bootcode 'knoppix26 home=/dev/hdb5 myconfig=/dev/hdb5'. It found the PH, but hung on the config, so I figured that SunnyB must be right about needing to be a different location. So, then I typed the bootcode 'knoppix26 home=/dev/hdb5', leaving out the myconfig argument entirely, and I figured I would simply copy the configs.tbz file back to the thumbdrive, and reboot once I have the configuration file relocated. Well I couldn't copy the file back to the thumbdrive (because I forgot to uncheck read only), and then I noticed that my configuration was already loaded, even though I hadn't asked in the boot code.

So, it appears to me that if you set up a partition as a PH, and save your configuration to it, it looks as if you don't even have to bother with the myconfig bootflag - it's grabbed automatically when the PH is enabled. Cuts my typing in half!!

Just curious to see if it works for anyone else - this may be a cool one to add to the tips and tricks.

[1855]

Hi, New to the forum and knoppix. (Please don't shoot)

I read this post with extreme interest as after managing to set up booting from an iso on c: ( a major achievement!) I wanted to push my knowledge, settings etc... without having to save the configuration each time and without disturbing Windows! so a persistent home grabbed my interest.

I am in the fortunate position of a spare machine ( after a donated one came my way) that only the kids game on so that would be the target to go at.

Everything went as should, not a glitch. I placed it on Hdb1 a "spare" 40Gb Fat32 drive in there. Brilliant

Full of confidence I sucumbed to the "this is good" point and went to replicate it on my main pc. Trying to PH on effectively Hdc2 (Hdc1 being the back up partition for my data) it would not go or stick.

As said I'm new to this but after trying for a while getting nowhere I though about the differences in set ups that could of caused me problems.

The only thing that was different was that Hdc2 on the main PC was beyond the 1024 cyl boundary (8 Gb?) compared to Hdb1, yes I use Partition magic alot, on the spare where it sat basically at the start of the drive.

I changed the back up partition and target for PH on my main PC putting it to Hdc1 and presto everythings fine. This was also the case on my wife's Laptop where secretly while she was out and quite quickly managed to repeat the same observation, PH beyond 1024 cyl would not go, inside it everything's fine. She doesn't even know it's on there, I'll change her over gradually!

I'm taking a cautious approach and checking I can do the things in Knoppix that I can in Windows (home net etc...) before totally changing.

Just wondering if this could be a reason?