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Dr PC Tunes
08-09-2004, 02:47 AM
Knoppix 3.4 ( Poor-man's ) HD install

This refers to Knoppix 3.4 (17.05.04) , which differs from previous versions ( so much of the Forum advice is incorrect/confusing ) ; booting from floppy with Linloader to a saved image on a Hd partition . It requires 2 ( or 3 ) partitions , but MAY be possible with one ... more of which later ... but ....I'm leaving well enough alone at this point !!!!!
The advantages of such an arrangement are that you use a floppy ( which can be easily manually extracted/editted ) as opposed to a CDR , to boot ..... if you've only one CDROM , you can still use it . The image is compressed , so the ~700 Mb it occupies , gives ~2Gb of software .... handy on smaller drives , and certainly less than the ~4 Gb a real HD install would involve .... it's faster , and not potentially damaging your liveCD ... which is now kept as a master ...

TO DO .... In Ms Explorer , create , at the root of a partition ( let's e.g. use G: [hda8]) a folder entitled 'Knoppix' .
From your liveCD , copy the file Knoppix from ?X:\Knoppix\
and linux24 and minirt24.gz from ?X:\boot\isolinux to your new Knoppix folder . ( for the 2.4.6 kernel ..... choose the '26' ones for the 2.6.x kernel )
From here http://www.knoppix.net/docs/index.php/tools you can obtain loadlin 1.6c , extract and place the .exe in your folder ....
You're now done with your parent directory .
To boot to it , you'll need a floppy , a Win98 system floppy ( NOT startup disc ) . In Explorer , RC your A: drive /Format/select Copy System Files . Use your present config.sys , or this may be helpful on older machines


Device=C:\Windows\Himem.Sys /Testmem:Off
Device=C:\Windows\Emm386.Exe Noems
Dos=High,Umb

The autoexec.bat file you will create is critical , because it will pass booting arguments to the kernel loader .... i.e. it's where you put your cheat codes ....but in a VERY certain order , I've discovered .....

To get a clean boot , I'd suggest use

G:
cd G:\Knoppix
loadlin linux24 fromhd=/dev/hda8 ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init initrd=minirt24.gz quiet lang=us vga=normal BOOT_IMAGE=Knoppix

Notes : MY folder is on G:\Knoppix ( hda8 ) adjust the 'G' and '8' to suit ....

This differs from Klaus's default lilo argument

DEFAULT linux24
APPEND ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 initrd=minirt24.gz nomce quiet BOOT_IMAGE=knoppix
TIMEOUT 300

to avoid unsupported video modes ( vga=normal ) , and I've reordered , to allow less confusing entry of persistent home , and saved configuration arguments .... which we're coming to ( it's very order-critical ).

SUMMARY :

One folder on HD containing knoppix
linux24
minirt24.gz
loadlin.exe

One floppy containing autoexec.bat
config.sys ( optional )
io.sys
command.com
msdos.sys

To boot , insert floppy and restart your machine .....

Welcome to Knoppix !!!!

Now , we get on to ensuring your configuration is saved .... which is , unfortunately , a two-part process ..... and , in my hands , a very certain order is needed .
( Persistent Home and Saveconfig save different data , with apparent overlap ..... you'll need both [ Saveconfig , alone , stores your user/password details and other critical stuff , Persistent Home , alone , stores not only data , but some configuration material , not saved by Saveconfig ]..... you'll need both )

SO ..... configure to your heart's content , and create a Perstistent Home ( Knoppix -> Configure -> Create a persistent KNOPPIX home directory ) on a different partition ( I've used hda7 ) . It's far easier if you DON'T use all of the partition , or encryt your file .
Browse , in Konqueror , to your floppy , open ( in KWrite) autoexec.bat , and add the line home=/dev/hda7 or home=/dev/hda7/knoppix.img EXACTLY here

G:
cd G:\Knoppix
loadlin linux24 fromhd=/dev/hda8 ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init initrd=minirt24.gz quiet HOME=/DEV/HDA7 lang=us vga=normal BOOT_IMAGE=Knoppix

( capitilized to highlight ... enter in lower-case )

REBOOT to test .... you'll have to retweak , including setting root password , user details , printer services .....
NOW , you can Saveconfig ( Knoppix -> Configure -> Save KNOPPIX configuration ) , in my example to hda6 .... but it works quite happily on hda7 ( i.e. the same as Persistent Home ) ..

Add the line config=/dev/hda6 to autoexec.bat


G:
cd G:\Knoppix
loadlin linux24 fromhd=/dev/hda8 ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init initrd=minirt24.gz quiet home=/dev/hda7 CONFIG=/DEV/HDA6 lang=us vga=normal BOOT_IMAGE=Knoppix


( capitilized to highlight ... enter in lower-case )

Do be very EXACT ... the wrong order can provoke boot failure , kernel panic , slow packing/unpacking from configs.tbz , and weird German messages , both on booting , and throughout KDE !!!!! You really don't want to know ......

BUT ... you are able to save , and change , your boot arguments , by editting autoexec.bat

And that's her .... one advantage is that hda7 ( the persistent home ) is mounted rw .... so other data on it can be accessed .. say to autostart something ... like modem driver installation .... ( my next revelation )
I haven't tried , but with precise path labelling , you may be able to get the whole enchilada on one partition ( part of the complication is that your boot image , and your persistent home are both saved as Knoppix.img ) . With the PH in root , and the image in a folder , a precise path may differentiate the two .....

e.g. fromhd=/dev/hda8/knoppix
home=/dev/hda8
or home=/dev/hda8/knoppix.img

DO be enjoying the Knoppix .....

:lol: :lol:

baldyeti
08-09-2004, 08:39 AM
Thanks for the update. Since the documentation is held in a wiki, you may want to edit the page you found confusing, if only to link to this very page in the case of knoppix 3.4.

One important precision, though: correct me if I am wrong, but I think poor man's install still only applies for win9x on a fat filesystem (C: or other)...

j.drake
08-09-2004, 09:31 PM
Well, actually, using the bootflags "tohd" and "fromhd" do the same thing as a poorman's. No floppy is required - just use the live CD to get the Knoppix bootprompt. The only difficulty (if you want to call it that) is in booting from something other than the live CD (e.g., floppy or USB). The old WIKI info is outdated and does not appear to be compatible with 3.4, as far as I can tell, but for me, just using the live CD to enter the fromhd flag works well enough.


I was planning to do some work on the WIKI myself, but I got sidetracked with booting with a USB key, and other stuff came up.

jd

Dr PC Tunes
08-12-2004, 03:20 AM
Hi gentlemen ,

You are so right re: needing an FAT32 ( ??FAT 16 ) partition ... though I understand you can run Win XP on FAT32 ( as a choice when formatting ) ... but most XP systems come preinstalled on NTFS ....
and jd , I guess I'm just lazy , but I chose to avoid that typing everytime at boot .... and I prefer a floopy over CD .. at least I can get it out , if the system throws a wobble !!!!!
I would thank you both , in that perusing your thoughts , and testing them , has lead to my solutions ...

Cheers ...

ICPUG
08-19-2004, 06:58 PM
This use of Loadlin looks a very good idea.

I tried it but didn’t get past first base. When I tried to boot up with the initial boot floppy I got:

Kernel Panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 01:03

I took away the ‘quiet’ parameter from the autoexec.bat and found that immediately before the Kernel Panic I had the message:

FAT: bogus logical sector size 0.

My hard drive has 3 partitions (C:, D:, E: in Windows). I have placed the \KNOPPIX directory on my E: drive so my autoexec.bat says:

E:
cd E:\KNOPPIX
loadlin linux24 fromhd=/dev/hda6 ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init initrd=minirt24.gz quiet lang=uk vga=normal BOOT_IMAGE=KNOPPIX

I assume the loadlin and everything after is all one DOS line.

My machine has 128MB RAM. Is this insufficient to cope with the ramdisk_size above?

I must admit I find the mixing of Knoppix cheat codes and loadlin options very strange, as well as some items, (ramdisk_size, init, BOOT_IMAGE) which appear to be neither.

It would be nice to understand the Knoppix boot process and what these parameters are. Then perhaps problems can be resolved by thought, rather than trial and error.

Any ideas.

baldyeti
08-19-2004, 07:22 PM
loadlin will only work with fat(32); perhaps that's your problem?

BOOT_IMAGE=KNOPPIX is not meaningful nor needed for loadlin and was probably just copied from the CD's isolinux.cfg. The rest are kernel parameters mereley passed on from loadlin to the kernel being launched.

jx3000
09-02-2004, 02:31 PM
Well, actually, using the bootflags "tohd" and "fromhd" do the same thing as a poorman's. No floppy is required - just use the live CD to get the Knoppix bootprompt. The only difficulty (if you want to call it that) is in booting from something other than the live CD (e.g., floppy or USB).
jd

Can I ask if the following is at all possible.

When I install Fedora I never install grub on the MBR, always on "/" partition.

I then do a,

dd if=/dev/hda6 of=/fedora.lnx bs=512 count=1

This creates for me an image file with grub, which I then use with my XP bootloader.

In boot.ini I have something like this.

[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOW S
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect
c:\fedora.lnx="FEDORA CORE 1"


When I restart my PC I choose "FEDORA CORE 1" from the menu and it launches for me grub which I then use to launch Fedora.

Can I somehow launch Knoppix with this method? I would like to only have my laptop and not have to carry the CD or USB or floppy with me.

Is it possible to create an image file of the Knoppix prompt? If my assumption is correct that is all I require to launch the compressed Knoppix image from my FAT32 partition.

jx3000
09-07-2004, 02:03 PM
Is it possible to create an image file of the Knoppix prompt? If my assumption is correct that is all I require to launch the compressed Knoppix image from my FAT32 partition.

Bump.
Anyone reading this thread topic?

Anyone know the answer to my question in previous post?

knauserix
09-10-2004, 09:01 PM
Hi,


Is it possible to create an image file of the Knoppix prompt? If my assumption is correct that is all I require to launch the compressed Knoppix image from my FAT32 partition.

have you seen

http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11796&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

I can launch the knoppix/knoppix file just copied from the CD to any windows type partition on my HD.
My newbie troubles were with grub, but you seem to have that covered already.

HTH

thomas

Gencho
11-06-2004, 01:44 PM
[...]
The autoexec.bat file you will create is critical , because it will pass booting arguments to the kernel loader .... i.e. it's where you put your cheat codes ....but in a VERY certain order , I've discovered .....


Maybe it was only a problem with the DOS line length. I did RTFM after I've noticed that loadlin has cut some parameters:

4.1 Maximum length of the command line
----------------------------------

The length of a DOS command line can be 127 bytes (including
the program name). With a params file (@param)
the length of the string passed to the kernel can in theory be
2047 bytes, but the string is held in a temporary place and must
be copied by the kernel to a save static buffer in init/main.
This forces the maximum length to a compiled-in constant, which
currently is 256 bytes.
If you need a greater size, you can simply change COMMAND_LINE_SIZE
in arch/i386/kernel/setup.c.


Bye,
:D

dazed&confused
01-03-2005, 12:02 AM
been using loadlin on this machine for a couple of years to boot an old old OLD zipslack distro with a custom cross, but the relatively new WD200 got homesick & decided to go on strike so I'd have to rma it. this seemed like a good time to update but there's a slight problem

hda1 is a 4 gig fat32 partition with w98 dos only (cmd com & such). knoppix 3.7 boots fine from cd or with fromhd cheatcode but trying to use


loadlin vmlinux.px fronhd=/dev/hda1 ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init initrd=minirt24.gz

produces this error


Freeing initrd memory: 774k freed
FAT: bogus logical sector size 28265
Kernel Panic: VFS Unable to mount root fs on 03:09


I've seen several other people ask allmost the same question, but can't seem to find an answer. this has got to be something simple, what am I missing???

---
edit:

looks like it's a fat32 issue. this was a 4 gig partition on a 200 gig drive, same machine/config in a 120 gig partion/drive works just fine

alex52
02-04-2005, 07:11 AM
Simple and effective man install with detailed instruction, and much more now posted here:

http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17024

moustache
02-21-2005, 08:20 PM
I have found a way to boot into Knoppix (3.7 - 2.4 kernel anyway) WITHOUT a CD or a FLOPPY on my computer which has windows 98 and FAT32. Here's how I do it:
1. Download Knoppix iso and extract it to my windows hard drive (c:\knoppix) using WINRAR (shareware)
2. Put large knoppix boot image, linux24 (and linux26), minirt24.gz (and minirt26.gz) into the main c:\knoppix directory
3. Put loadlin ( http://elserv.ffm.fgan.de/~lermen/ ) in c:\knoppix (can also use grub4dos but a little more involved http://grub4dos.sourceforge.net/ )
4. Make a boot24.bat (dos batchfile) with the following single line in it:
loadlin linux24 fromhd=/dev/hda1 ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init initrd=minirt24.gz quiet lang=us BOOT_IMAGE=KNOPPIX
5. (best part) This only works with window98 as far as I know...reboot your computer with no cd or floppy disk in and before it gets to the windows screen push the "F8" function key, this will bring up a menu including "5. DOS command prompt only"....choose comand prompt only and you will see c:\ and be in dos
6. CD to c:\knoppix and type "boot24.bat" and it should start linux...

I have gotten the above procedure to work with knoppix v3.7 with kernel 2.4 but NOT with kernel 2.6 (after making appropriate changes in the boot26.bat file ( ie, loadlin linux26 fromhd=/dev/hda1 ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init initrd=minirt26.gz quiet lang=us BOOT_IMAGE=KNOPPIX )

I have also gotten to work with BEATRIX ( http://www.watsky.net/ ) which is a 2.6 kernel modified knoppix (hmm)

I have also use grub4dos to start linux from command prompt (with no CD or FLOPPY) using the following menu.lst in the c:\knoppix\boot\grub directory:

title Beatrix Linux on (hd0,0)
kernel (hd0,0)/beatrix/linux26 fromhd=/dev/hda1 ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init initrd=minirt26.gz quiet lang=us BOOT_IMAGE=BEATRIX
initrd (hd0,0)/beatrix/minirt26.gz

title Knoppix 2.6 Linux on (hd0,0)
kernel (hd0,0)/knoppix/linux26 fromhd=/dev/hda1 ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init initrd=minirt26.gz quiet lang=us BOOT_IMAGE=KNOPPIX
initrd (hd0,0)/knoppix/minirt26.gz

title Knoppix 2.4 Linux on (hd0,0)
kernel (hd0,0)/knoppix/linux24 fromhd=/dev/hda1 ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init initrd=minirt24.gz quiet lang=us BOOT_IMAGE=KNOPPIX
initrd (hd0,0)/knoppix/minirt24.gz

However, this still wont boot Knoppix kernel 2.6! Not sure what I am doing wrong with 2.6?

Moustache

chris_Xnest
03-08-2005, 09:52 AM
There's a script which asks for a FAT16 free partition of 710 MB ... 1 GB, deletes all files on it, then copies Knoppix CD onto it and makes it bootable

No need for floppies or the CD to boot this partition

The boot process looks exactly like the CD boot process

If you want this script, visit the forum at:

http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=78001#78001

sakiZ
08-05-2005, 03:47 PM
I too am booting a full HD install with Loadlin on my FAT32 partition. It's way cool! And easy to use.

I am so happy with it that I decided to customize my Win98 (DOS only) splash screen. It seemed stupid to keep it since I was not actually booting to Win98 anymore. Then I thought of a tip I had read where you customize the splash screen.

I looked around for different Linux logos. I found a good one of the penguin.
With a little photo editor I changed the size to 320x400 pixels.

Here is one explanation of this tip:

"Windows 98 and 95 handle the logo bitmap the same way. If a good Logo.sys exists, Windows uses it; if not, Windows extracts the default logo from Io.sys. (Never modify Io.sys!) Logo.sys must be a 320- by 400-pixel, 256-color Windows bitmap file. Windows stretches the image to 640-by-400 for display. Logo.sys resides in the boot drive's root directory or, if the drive is compressed, in the root directory of the host for the boot drive."

So, you create this image and rename it LOGO.SYS. Your MS-DOS file must have the line in it Logo=1. It sometimes does not. You can add it by changing the read-only attributes of the file, then adding that line.

Now when I boot Knoppix, an image of the Penguin comes up first! Whee!

One additional thing. Because you are starting off in DOS, you can also use DOS utiltites you may need. I discovered that if I use the old Qfresh.com utility that changes memory refresh parameters, I get a smoother faster Knoppix operation. It runs nothing, it just sets the memory refresh timings.

K3B opens much faster for some reason. Neat!

sakiZ

KNoppix newbi
09-01-2005, 03:19 AM
Simple fix buy anew hard drive and instasll Knoppix on it that is what I did and Knoppix runns just fine for me.

sakiZ
09-15-2005, 07:41 PM
produces this error

Code:
Freeing initrd memory: 774k freed
FAT: bogus logical sector size 28265
Kernel Panic: VFS Unable to mount root fs on 03:09

I've seen several other people ask allmost the same question, but can't seem to find an answer. this has got to be something simple, what am I missing???

---
edit:

looks like it's a fat32 issue. this was a 4 gig partition on a 200 gig drive, same machine/config in a 120 gig partion/drive works just fine

I get these exact same messages using a 12gig partition on an 80 gig drive.

I think you are on to something here. Are the sector sizes of a 200 gig drive and a 120 gig drive different? It seems like a certain sector size is being assumed and when it does not find it, gives the above error message.

What is the sector size of your 120 gig drive? Can you find out?

Perhaps loadlin is what assumes the sector size.

sakiZ

Erick90022
12-26-2005, 08:29 AM
How will i know hen it is done? :(!