Can't boot linux from HD after installtion?

[gopikrish]

Since knoppix installation complained that it needs atleast 2 GB of disk space to install I fully formatted my harddisk and created 3 partitions one for windows as Primary DOS partition and one for linux as linux partition with size 2.5GB and one partion as linux swap drive with 300MB size.I did the command "IGNORE_CHECK sudo knoppix-installer" since without that ignore_check it was complaining that "The installer detected that the installation requirements are not fulfilled yet." And then installation was completed successfully.But when I restarted, it said "Checking for boot disk in IDE .... OK" and then weird thing of L 09 09 09 09 and even more 09s appeared and nothing happened :( Why is this?

[shah]

This 99999....occurs when lilo not properly installed on your mbr.

You can try reinstall lilo:
1) Boot from cd.
2) Open konsole and run command:
su
mount /devhad*x /mnt/hda*x *x= partition which knopppix installed
chroot /mnt/hda*x
lilo (check your /etc/lilo.conf first, to make sure it's okay)

If this doesn't word, you need to reinstall your knoppix.

[gopikrish]

I did "mount /dev/hda2 /mnt" and it said
mount: only root can do that
And so I did, "sudo mount /dev/hda2 /mnt" and it said
mount: error while guessing filesystem type.
mount: you must specify the filesystem type.

hda1 is the windows partition and hda2 is my linux partition which I am trying to mount.So how to do that?
I just tried to run lilo from root using "./lilo" and it said
"Unrecognized token "! Please edit /etc/lilo.conf before running lilo ! at or above line 20 in file '/etc/lilo.conf'
When I opened lilo using editor the following was there,

lba32
boot=/dev/hda
install=/boot/boot-menu.b
backup=/dev/null
map=/boot/map
timeout=100
vga=normal
default=Knoppix

image=/vmlinuz
append="lang=de apm=power-off hda=scsi hdb=scsi hdc=scsi hdd=scsi hde=scsi hdf=scsi hdg=scsi hdh=scsi vga=791 quiet BOOT_IMAGE=knoppix"
root=/dev/hda5
label=Knoppix
read-write

[shah]

mount /devhad*x /mnt/hda*x *x= partition which knopppix installed
Sorry for the typo.

From your lilo.conf, I believed hda2 is your swap partition and hda5 is your linux partition.

Lets do again:
1) Open konsole
2) su <enter>--- you'll get something like : root@knoppix:#
3) mount<space>/dev/hda5 <space>/mnt/hda5 <enter>
4) chroot<space>/mnt/hda5 <enter>
5) lilo <enter>

You might want to edit your /etc/lilo.conf to add Windows partition:
lba32
boot=/dev/hda
install=/boot/boot-menu.b
backup=/dev/null
map=/boot/map
timeout=100
vga=normal
default=Knoppix

image=/vmlinuz
append="lang=de apm=power-off hda=scsi hdb=scsi hdc=scsi hdd=scsi hde=scsi hdf=scsi hdg=scsi hdh=scsi vga=791 quiet BOOT_IMAGE=knoppix"
root=/dev/hda5
label=Knoppix
read-write

other = /dev/hda1
label = windows

[gopikrish]

hmm As I did as you said "mount /dev/hda5 /mnt/hda5"
and it said,
mount:error while guessing filesystem type.
mount:mount point /mnt/hda5 does not exist.

I think the mistake I made is that I should have installed windows first and then Linux.Before installing windows as I said it was showing that "09 09 09 09..... " stuff but now on booting its directly booting windows.Actually it should ask me either windows or linux options to boot, but its not asking.So I think there is problem with that lilo. So shall I delete linux partition, create a new one and reinstall linux ?

[shah]

Hmmmm..Reinstall knoppix, don't delete existing partition unless knoppix-installer indicate problem when trying to install. :D

[gopikrish]

awww.. lot of problems

Actually I reformatted linux partition and installed Linux again but while booting this time something called as GNU GRUB version 094 occured with grub:> prompt. Before installing linux and even before writing partition table to disk I made Linux partition active and not the dos partition because it complained both primary partitions cant be active. And while installing linux this occured in shell,
Cant remove /usr/share/applications/ ./Ethereal.desktop: Read-only file system, skipping file.
And similar things also was displayed for EtherealAsRoot, qtparted.desktop, kxconfig.desktop
warning: unable to determine video adapter in use in the present system.
Fatal: APPEND or LITERAL may not contain "vga="

But I think these errors are not causing my problem, right? And it said Installation successfull but when I was watching that progressbar it didn't fully passed to 100% but still it said "Installation completed successfully".By that time it was doing mbr I think. But anyway when I restared that Grub was displayed.
So again I tried booting from CD and then did the following steps, but not in the root directory but in the default dir after I opened a shell (i think its /ramdisk/knoppix)
su
mkdir /mnt/tmp
mount /dev/hda2 /mnt/tmp
And it displayed,
mount: fs type ext3 not supported by kernel.
But when I opened qtparted, hda2 is actually displayed as ext2 but here its saying it as ext3.I dont know whats happening

So please what could I do? Maybe shall I change my installation option to "Installation like that of LiveCD" instead of "Install to HD(preferred one)"
I even tried creating linux partition using cfdisk as,
Primary Linux ext3 partition (2600 MB) for type I entered 83
Primary Linux swap partition(200 MB) for type I entered 82
And there is other type also saying Linux extended type number is 85, maybe is this the right one?

[shah]

Lets do step by step:
Your partition is okay: 82 & 83
1) lets remove grub, from your mbr, use your windows cd or floppy to boot to command promt and run : fix /mbr and restart. If you windows can boot, your mbr has been fixed and grub has been removed.
2) Boot knoppix cdrom, and choose this cheat codes: knoppix26 alsa
*alsa if you have sound card.
3) Open konsole
4) su
5) knoppix-installer
6) If your partition is okay, it will not complain.
7) Select Debian like hhd install if you don't intend to add any hardware later. With this type of installation, you will have less problem later on. You will learn how to to add hardware later.
8) Choose to do mbr lilo .


Cant remove /usr/share/applications/ ./Ethereal.desktop: Read-only file system, skipping file.
And similar things also was displayed for EtherealAsRoot, qtparted.desktop, kxconfig.desktop
It's a common thing.

[gopikrish]

Sorry Shah I didn't follow your post since I slept last night and I did a new thing again this morning and it worked :)

Hey I did it! Basically the trick which worked was......
After I installed and even though it said "Installation successfully completed" I didn't reboot and I mounted my hda2 partition then chroot into that and then executed lilo. Now only warnings occured and no Fatal error occured and so after restarting it booted !

I have a few doubts though...
1) At booting that lilo is giving me the following options,
Linux
Linux (some number, i think 2.24.26)
Linux (some number)
hda1(windows)
So what are those 3 Linux? Are they different?

2) After Linux loads I login as user name "gopi" and if I wanted to switch to root user name I typed "Login" and it said "No utmp entry, you must exec "login" from the lowest level "sh".
So how to login to a root user?

3) When I go to /mnt directory and I did "ls -al" it shows hda1,hda2 and some more and as well as floppy->/mnt/auto/floppy
So what does this floppy->/mnt/auto/floppy mean?

Thanks.

[shah]

1) number that exist (next to Linux) on lilo menu , represent the kernel version, so you can choose what kernel you want to boot from. You can change the name if you want too. Just edit your /etc/lilo.conf, go to label section.

2) Remember , when you run knoppix-installer it asked for user password and administrator password. To log as root you need to supply it with the administrator password you already set.

3) It means that your floppy will be mount automatically when you inserted it and will resides in this folder.

[jjmac]

>>
This 99999....occurs when lilo not
properly installed on your mbr.

You can try reinstall lilo:
1) Boot from cd.
2) Open konsole and run command:
su
mount /devhad*x /mnt/hda*x *x= partition which
knopppix installed chroot /mnt/hda*x lilo
(check your /etc/lilo.conf first, to make sure it's okay)

If this doesn't word, you need to reinstall your
knoppix.
>>



The error suggests that Lilo's map file wasn't
correctly updated after the previous change.
Lilo needs to be run as "root" after every
config change. It's got nothing to do with it's
installation on the 'mbr'.

By the way... how come so many people think
that the first disks boot sector is the best
place to install a Linux loader, over-writing
the 'mbr' in the process. If a person had
any sense at all they would leave the 'mbr' as
it is, then install their Linux loader some
where else. Such as, to the partition that Linux it self is installed on.

This eliminates a whole set of future 'mbr'
related problems that may crop up for the user.
Like table corruption, due to the new 2.6.x
kernels dealing with disk geometry, and the subsequent
removal of Linux. Where people say "i want to
remove Linux but how do i get rid of grub"

Why the 'mbr'... because of 2 bit installer defaults
that could really use updating i would think,
along with a sheep mentality amongst users
in general. Espcecially if they have been
brought up in a windows context. And have been
duely trained to just go with the flow, so to speak

jm

[shah]

This eliminates a whole set of future 'mbr'
related problems that may crop up for the user.
Like table corruption, due to the new 2.6.x
kernels dealing with disk geometry, and the subsequent
removal of Linux. Where people say "i want to
remove Linux but how do i get rid of grub"

The kernel 2.6.x or whatever has nothing to do with mbr. It will not change your mbr or corrupt it. If kernel 2.6.x can corrupt your mbr, it obvious you shouldn't use linux.

Bootloader is not part of your kernel and both are different thing.

It's all about knowledge, how much you understand about mbr , partition, kernel, bootloader...etc.

No matter where you put your bootloader. As long you know what you did and know how to fix it, you'll be okay. If you have multiple OS in your system and you put lilo or grub in linux partition, still a question will arise, why my system boot directly to other OS?

[jjmac]

shah

>>
The kernel 2.6.x or whatever has nothing to do
with mbr. It will not change your mbr or corrupt it.
>>

Just to clarify a bit there shah, you may be
mis-interpreting what i ment...

"nothing to do with mbr"

Programs that deal with the "mbr" will utilise
kernel system calls, basically to access the
bios' "int13h" interface.

Which has gone through some changes over the last
few years. These changes will depend on the
vintage of the bios mainly. And relate to
extenstions to the bios' interface to allow for
larger disk recognition, ie; 32 bit.

The 2.6.x series has also moved away from the
24 bit 255 head system in favour of the 32 bit
16 head system for the same reason. I personally
would have liked them to have kept closer support
for 24 bit as well rather than going for raw
geometry only.

You may have noticed a "bugzilla" thread that
relates to this. Table scrambles, mainly
involving the FC test releases installer.
It seems to have croped up in Mandrake as
well. Three related associations were involved
though.

The way the bios dealt with geometry,
depending on how new the bios was. and whether
the installer bothered to check on any
discrepancy between what the kernel saw and
what the bios saw... which it didn't.

So, yes, it does play a role. All read writes
to anywhere will involve the kernel to some
degree.

If the user program checks on this though, it
may compensate. As in, my old lilo v22.2 refused
to update my map file under a 2.6 kernel with
out passing the "-P ignore" switch. The newer
v22.5 doesn't have a problem but still warns
on the geometry discrepancy. But then, iv'e
got an older bios, and an old Windows as well.

>>
If kernel 2.6.x can corrupt your mbr, it
obvious you shouldn't use linux.
>>

On the contrary...

It's obvious that the relationship between the
various systems should be appreciated
a little better. If the kernel had no influence...
then why use a kernel at all :D

>>
It's all about knowledge, how much you understand
about mbr , partition, kernel, bootloader...etc.
>>


Knowing some of the quirks, specialities
to expect is handy, to be sure....
The 2.6.x is
making inroads though, and so a few curious things
along the way should be expected i think.


>>
No matter where you put your boot-loader. As
long you know what you did and know how to fix
it, you'll be okay.
>>

True, but i suggest, some places are more
potentially problematic than others. Which
is basically why all the other Unix like systems
tend to prefere the first sector of their own partition.
Part of the trick is to try and see potential problems
before they become so, and then try to avoid them

>>
If you have multiple OS in your system and
you put lilo or grub in linux partition,
still a question will arise, why my system boot
directly to other OS?
>>


You will need to clarify that some what. You
didn't have it's partition set active by
chance ???

All the mbr needs to do is jump to a location
that has a loader. Thats all it was ever meant to
do. As long as it can reach the address,
it can drag that file in and then go back
to sleep.

I would even predict that as time goes by,
we may well see a lot of changes in the Linux
boot process. By v2.8.x we may even have the
boot code moved out of the kernel itself.

jm
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