Playing a CD With Hdd Install

[Kowood]

I've got a poor man's install, and when I try to play a cd, I can't, because file:/cdrom is the hard drive. Is there some way to unmount the hard drive from the cdrom drive? How do I paly cd's with a poor man's install?

[j.drake]

Don't get too hung up in the title that shows up in your home directory. From reading your other post (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=58432#58432), it sounds as if you are running just fine with the fromhd boot option, but you're concerned about the fact that the title says file:/cdrom. Can you eject the CD while running your poor man's? If so, then it shouldn't be tied up. Poor man's involves running from a hd image of the cd rom drive. IOW, there may be some aspects of Knoppix which "believe" that it's running from CD, even when it isn't. You said that you had your installed apps in the home directory. If you are really running from CD, Knoppix won't let you eject the disk.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding - sorry if I seem dense, but the only thing I saw in your other post about the hd being tied up was that it appeared that it wasn't mounted as read/write. Check out my reply (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=58445#58445).

jd

[Kowood]

Yeah. That helps me understand it, but it doesn't help me play a cd or game (not to be rude)

[j.drake]

Well, so, can you eject the CD while running Knoppix or not?

jd

[Kowood]

Yes. I can. But if I put in a cd, and try to play it, it doesn't recognize it. It says file:/mnt/cdrom doesn't exist or something similar to that.

[markleong]

In knoppix, the cdrom is mounted at /cdrom by default (not /mnt/cdrom). So if you want to mount the cd, it should be:-

mount /cdrom

Are you trying to play music cd? If yes, you may have to set the permission of /dev/cdrom to 777. I think the more correct method is to add the user to the audio group + others but I simply chmod 777 /dev/cdrom.

For music cd, vcd and dvd, there is no need to mount if you are using grip, kscd, xine, gmplayer......

[Kowood]

Well I tried playing it in Xine and other players, but it just said file:/mnt/cdrom doesn't exist. And when I click home window-->devices-->CD-ROM it says the same thing. It also might be of some help to know that my hda1 partition is under home window-->devices-->hda1 (cdrom). Do I have to unmount the hard drive from the cdrom? Is it trying to open the wrong thing by opening file:/mnt/cdrom instead of file:/cdrom? Did I do my PMI wrong? Everything else (besides my Winmodem, but I have many threads made dealing with that) works fine.

[j.drake]

First of all, I really don't think that the hard drive, or how it's mounted, is at issue. What about your cdrom icon on your desktop - does it have a little green triangle in the corner of the icon to indicate that it's mounted? Do you have more than one? Have you tried clicking the cd-rom icon? If a window opens when you do, it should be mounted, and you should be able to redirect Xine to the location shown in the address.

I don't know what's on your CD, but if it has an executable, you should be able to click and run from the window.

jd

[Kowood]

No, it's not mounted, and mount /cdrom tells me that hda1 is already mounted on cdrom, and umount /dev/hda1 says /cdrom is busy. Question=How do I unmount the hda1 from the cdrom? And then where should it go?

[j.drake]

Question=How do I unmount the hda1 from the cdrom?

I'm honestly not trying to frustrate you or get in your way. But I think that one of the reasons your questions isn't being answered as you ask it is that the way you ask it does not make sense. To my knowledge, there is nothing in knoppix that will "mount hd to cdrom". If you are determined to unmount any device, you can do it by right-clicking the icon and selecting "unmount", or alternatively, issuing the "umount" command (note the spelling with one "n") from the console. If it's a permission issue, you can execute a command as root by preceding it with "sudo" (e.g., "sudo umount /dev/cdrom"), you can set a root password by typing "sudo passwd" to allow root commands on the desktop, or you can type "su" in the console to make your whole console session as root, if that's what you really want to do. I'm betting that there's not one person in this entire forum who has any experience "unmounting a hd from the cdrom", so if no one is answering your question, that's probably why.

If you are going to issue the mount command from console, take a moment to learn the proper syntax, either by typing "man mount" or looking here (http://www.onlamp.com/linux/cmd/). You mount an object to a mountpoint. So, to mount the cdrom, figure out the name of the device in question - is it cdrom, or scd0, hdc, or something else entirely? Assuming that it's "cdrom", the normal syntax to mount it (ignoring optional items) is "sudo mount /dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom" (only root can mount in console). Personally, I would just click the desktop icon (making sure that I was clicking the right one, of course).

Sorry I can't be more precise in addressing your problem, but I'm flying blind. Not only can I not see your system, but I'm in Windows right now. What storage icons do you have on your desktop? Which ones will not mount with a left click?

[Kowood]

So, in my experience, and I've done it a bunch of times, when you do a "fromhd" style poor man's install, Knoppix treats the partition you're loading it from as if it were a read-only CD-ROM. It's not a bug; it's a feature.
That's what eco2geek said in the other topic I had on the thing. Is there a way for it to stop treating the partition as a read-only CD-ROM? Because that takes my CD-ROM drive away from me.

[Kowood]

JD, I just tried those commands, and it said that /mnt/cdrom leads to nowhere, or something of the like. I think I might know what I'm trying to ask now. Hda1 is mounted on mount point /mnt/cdrom, how can I get it back to /mnt/hda1, and get the cdrom back to /mnt/cdrom?

[j.drake]

So, in my experience, and I've done it a bunch of times, when you do a "fromhd" style poor man's install, Knoppix treats the partition you're loading it from as if it were a read-only CD-ROM. It's not a bug; it's a feature.
That's what eco2geek said in the other topic I had on the thing. Is there a way for it to stop treating the partition as a read-only CD-ROM? Because that takes my CD-ROM drive away from me.

No, no, no. You misunderstood him. He said "as if it were" - that's subjunctive. Just because Knoppix creates a "virtual" cdrom drive with the "fromhd" cheatcode - that doesn't have beans to do with your real one. That's the whole point!!! The "fromhd" process PREVENTS the cdrom drive from being locked up while you run knoppix. If it didn't, there would be absolutely no point in using it (other than speed)!! If your cdrom drive configuration is jicked up, it's not because of the "fromhd", and you need to let go of that theory if you want to address the real issue. The "hd mounted to cd" theory has no merit. It is a distraction. eco2geek was trying to help you w/r/t your ability to access the hd. What he offered was in no way addressed to your use of the cdrom.

I haven't found it to be the case that running "fromhd" locks up the entire partition where the image is installed. Now, what I HAVE found is that you cannot unmount that partition in the course of a linux session. That stands to reason, right? You can't just jerk the rug out from under your own feet. You can't remove access from the very drive that tells the computer how to remove access.

Look, you already said that you can eject the CD. That proves conclusively that your CD is not being locked up. When Knoppix locks up the CD, you cannot even eject it.

Give me a moment to boot into Knoppix and see if maybe I'm missing something. I apologize that I cannot totally duplicate the experiment, because I wiped out all my linux files and configurations to backup a new replacement hd. I'll take a look at your other post as well.

jd

[markleong]

Kowood, try the following from console:-

ls -la /mnt/cdrom

Did you get a no such file or directory message? You should unless you have created a mount point in /mnt yourself.

Next do the following:-

ls -la /cdrom

You should see 2 lines, one ending with 1 dot and the other with 2 dots.

Log in as root and goto /dev.

Issue the following as root user:-

chmod 777 /dev/cdrom

Then type the following:-

ls -la /dev/cdrom

You will see that /dev/cdrom points to something else (eg. /dev/scd0).

Let me know what does it point to. Or you can enable everyone has read access to whatever /dev/cdrom is pointing to (eg. chmod a+r /dev/scd0).

After that try to play your movies or music cd. Try music cd first for simplicity. Again, there is no need to mount vcd, dvd or cds.

/mnt/hda1 should be your harddisk (not cdrom) and I don't think you should mount anything there yourself unless you know what you are doing.

The above are all done in a console.

[j.drake]

JD, I just tried those commands, and it said that /mnt/cdrom leads to nowhere, or something of the like.

Something like this?
Unable to run the command specified. The file or folder file:/mnt/cdrom1 does not exist.

That's what I got when I clicked on an empty cdrom drive (/mnt/cdrom1). When I put a CD in and repeated the process, I got a listing of files. The other cd drive (/mnt/cdrom) is running my Knoppix disk (haven't redone poor man's yet, so I'm running live CD), but it still gives a listing of the files on the disk.

I never claimed that using the mount command would get you anywhere with this problem, but you insisted upon wanting to know how to mount this or that, so I told you. I only answered the question you asked. :?

jd

[j.drake]

Hda1 is mounted on mount point /mnt/cdrom

What are you seeing that compels you to insist that this is the case? Is it because of what shows up in the address bar in Konqueror? If so, like I said before (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=58474#58474), don't get too bent up about that. I'll admit, it is a peculiarity when it happens. Knoppix is set up to be live CD, and "poor man's" is kind of a work-around. So, yes, I've seen strange things like that in the address bar of Konqueror, but don't be too concerned about that. But clearly, you're able to write to your drive.

I'm still admittedly puzzled about your inability to access your CDrom, though. Not meaning to be insulting, but do you have more than one? And have you checked both with CDs inside?

jd

[SolarCat]

I have discovered that on some computers it won't let you use the CD-ROM for anything when booting Knoppix. At least, I haven't found a way around it. That's how it was with my old Dell Dimensions. It had two CD drives, and when in Knoppix I couldn't use either of them. (One had the Knoppix CD in it, the other wasn't recognized). It didn't matter which drive I put the Knoppix CD in, Knoppix wouldn't recognize the other one. My only way of playing music CD's was to use a nice built-in feature on my CD burner - it had a "play" and a "skip to next song" button.
Not that this helps solve the problem, but I guess it helps clarify that yes, this problem does exist. And I would also be interested in knowing how to solve it.

[Kowood]

Kowood, try the following from console:-

ls -la /mnt/cdrom

Did you get a no such file or directory message? You should unless you have created a mount point in /mnt yourself.

Next do the following:-

ls -la /cdrom

You should see 2 lines, one ending with 1 dot and the other with 2 dots.

Log in as root and goto /dev.

Issue the following as root user:-

chmod 777 /dev/cdrom

Then type the following:-

ls -la /dev/cdrom

You will see that /dev/cdrom points to something else (eg. /dev/scd0).

Let me know what does it point to. Or you can enable everyone has read access to whatever /dev/cdrom is pointing to (eg. chmod a+r /dev/scd0).

After that try to play your movies or music cd. Try music cd first for simplicity. Again, there is no need to mount vcd, dvd or cds.

/mnt/hda1 should be your harddisk (not cdrom) and I don't think you should mount anything there yourself unless you know what you are doing.

The above are all done in a console
The first one gave me some readout, it wasn't no file or directory message. ls -la /cdrom showed me all the files on my hda1. chmod 777 /dev/cdrom gave a no file or directory for /dev/cdrom. I'll post the full output if I can get it to save. I have some troubles with that earlier.

[markleong]

Please post your /etc/fstab file. Did you amend /etc/fstab?

[CrashedAgain]

Your problem is the way linux deals with audio (ie not data) CD's. Put in a data CD (perhaps your Knoppix CD) & click on the CDrom icon or navigate to /cdrom & it should open. If you navigate to /mnt, autofs should create /mnt/cdrom which will 'exist' only while the CD is in place & the cd should be accessable there too.

but this doesn't work for audio CD's. See this link:
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12933

What Cuddles doesn't explain is how to access the CD with xmms. First, make sure xmms works. I had to install xmms-arts plugin to get it to work reliably, don't know if it's available from klik or not. Start xmms & test it with /usr/share/sounds/startup.ogg. Then, using the 'open' dialog in xmms, navigate to /cdrom & you should see your audio files. If you see them but can't seem to play them, the problem may be that the volume is off. Open kmix & turn up the 'input' volume setting. If you still have no success, the problem is probably with xmms.
If xmms starts the first attempt only but won't play then freezes on subsequent attempts to start, you need the xmms-arts plugin. You also have to go into xmms preferences & enable it after installing it.

Hope this works. You can also try other players, several are available from klik. Xmms is as good as any as a player but it's user interface could use some work.

[Kowood]

Am I using /etc/fstab wrong? Because when I put it in, under root user, it just says something about it not being a command. /cdrom dumps me to the hard drive, not the cdrom.

[robwelch100]

Just to throw my hat in,
I had a problem with this same type of issue on my Hd install. How I got aroung it was by deleting the desktop icon for the cd rom on my desktop. I then rightclicked and created a new device. I named it cd-rom and selected the device from the list it provided me. It worked for me. I know it doesn't change the config setting and delve into the core but you may want to try it.

If it doesn't work, sorry can't help.

[Kowood]

The man's got a good idea. It's often the simple things that foul it up.

[Kowood]

Oh, I'm also trying to get Cedega, I already downloaded it in a tar.gz form, but should I have got it the .deb form?

[eco2geek]

Your problem is the way linux deals with audio (ie not data) CD's. Put in a data CD (perhaps your Knoppix CD) & click on the CDrom icon or navigate to /cdrom & it should open. If you navigate to /mnt, autofs should create /mnt/cdrom which will 'exist' only while the CD is in place & the cd should be accessable there too.

If you're using a "fromhd" Poor Man's Install, navigating to /cdrom will show you the contents of the partition your Knoppix "cloop" image is stored on, not the content of the CD in your CD-ROM drive.

If you then put a data CD into your CD-ROM drive, and navigate to /mnt/cdrom, the automounter should mount it and show you the data. If for some reason it doesn't, you can mount it manually as root to an existing directory in /mnt. For example,

mount /dev/hdc /mnt/test
(Edit: It may be "hdc1" or "hdc", I'm not sure. In my Red Hat Linux experience, I had to create a symlink from /dev/hdc to /dev/cdrom.)

should work if your CD is your secondary master, or, if you passed Knoppix the "hdc=scsi" code so you can burn CDs,

mount /dev/scd0 /mnt/test

should mount a data CD on /mnt/test.

CrashedAgain's and Cuddles' experiences match mine with audio CDs. That is, I get error messages when I try to mount them, but they play just fine in XMMS.

P.S. Not to beat a dead horse, but Kowood, you said you successfully saved a file to the partition you mounted the Knoppix image from, after the "poor man's installation." Please post the output of "cat /etc/mtab" after you go through the steps to make that partition writeable.

[Kowood]

Just to throw my hat in,
I had a problem with this same type of issue on my Hd install. How I got aroung it was by deleting the desktop icon for the cd rom on my desktop. I then rightclicked and created a new device. I named it cd-rom and selected the device from the list it provided me. It worked for me. I know it doesn't change the config setting and delve into the core but you may want to try it.

If it doesn't work, sorry can't help.
It still said mount point /mnt/auto/cdrom doesn't exist.

[Kowood]

Could it have something to do with the fact that it's /mnt/auto/cdrom and not /mnt/cdrom ?

[markleong]

Kowood, do the following as root user in a console:-

cat /etc/fstab

You should see an entry for /dev/cdrom. That should point to /cdrom. Post the output here and we would be able to see your mount points.

BTW, how new are you to knoppix? linux?

[CrashedAgain]

Your problem is the way linux deals with audio (ie not data) CD's. Put in a data CD (perhaps your Knoppix CD) & click on the CDrom icon or navigate to /cdrom & it should open. If you navigate to /mnt, autofs should create /mnt/cdrom which will 'exist' only while the CD is in place & the cd should be accessable there too.

If you're using a "fromhd" Poor Man's Install, navigating to /cdrom will show you the contents of the partition your Knoppix "cloop" image is stored on, not the content of the CD in your CD-ROM drive.

If you then put a data CD into your CD-ROM drive, and navigate to /mnt/cdrom, the automounter should mount it and show you the data. If for some reason it doesn't, you can mount it manually as root to an existing directory in /mnt. For example,

mount /dev/hdc /mnt/test
(Edit: It may be "hdc1" or "hdc", I'm not sure. In my Red Hat Linux experience, I had to create a symlink from /dev/hdc to /dev/cdrom.)

should work if your CD is your secondary master, or, if you passed Knoppix the "hdc=scsi" code so you can burn CDs,

mount /dev/scd0 /mnt/test

should mount a data CD on /mnt/test.

CrashedAgain's and Cuddles' experiences match mine with audio CDs. That is, I get error messages when I try to mount them, but they play just fine in XMMS.

P.S. Not to beat a dead horse, but Kowood, you said you successfully saved a file to the partition you mounted the Knoppix image from, after the "poor man's installation." Please post the output of "cat /etc/mtab" after you go through the steps to make that partition writeable.

Hmmm.
I just tried with my poormans install & I am not able to mount either a data CD or an audio CD when running from the poormans. You are right, /cdrom is the partiton on which the poormans is installed, however when I put either a data CD or an audio CD in the CD drive, the drive light lights for only a moment then stops & navgating to /mnt or /mnt/auto shows nothing. There is a /mnt/cdrom but it's locked & konqueror says it's a 'link to unknown'. It's actually a link to /mnt/auto/cdrom which autofs creates when reading a CD but that doesn't seem to work in poormans.
So maybe there is a problem with autofs in poormans??? or maybe it's particular to my installation since my poormans is actually a poormans install of a remaster & I may have killed something doing the remaster.

[eco2geek]

Dunno, it may be due to your remaster. What do you get when you run /etc/init.d/autofs status? It seems to work OK using a PMI ("poor man's install") of stock Knoppix 3.6.

Here's what /etc/mtab looks like on my PMI:


/dev/root / ext2 rw 0 0
/dev/hda5 /cdrom vfat ro,nodiratime,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=defau lt,iocharset=default 0 0
/dev/cloop /KNOPPIX iso9660 ro 0 0
/ramdisk /ramdisk tmpfs rw,size=91988k 0 0
/proc/bus/usb /proc/bus/usb usbdevfs rw,devmode=0666 0 0
/dev/hdb2 /mnt/hdb2 ext3 rw,nosuid,nodev 0 0
/mnt/hdb2/knoppix.img /home/knoppix ext2 rw,loop=/dev/loop0 0 0
automount(pid818) /mnt/auto autofs rw,fd=4,pgrp=818,minproto=2,maxproto=4 0 0

Line 2 indicates the partition the cloop file's on (hda5, FAT32). Line 7 is persistent home (hdb2/knoppix.img). And line 8's the automounter.

See how hda5 is mounted read-only? I don't see how you can unmount it and mount it read-write while Knoppix is running. Two people have told me they've managed to somehow save files to the drive their PMI is running from, but this is why I still don't believe them.

[markleong]

eco2geek,

Line 2 in the fstab has mounted /dev/hda5 to /cdrom.

Log in as root and make a backup of the fstab file first. The edit it:-

Comment out the second line by adding a hex (#) in front of it.
Insert a 3rd line as such:-

/dev/cdrom /cdrom iso9660 defaults,ro,user,noexec,noauto 0 0

Goto to /dev directory and type:-

chmod 777 /dev/cdrom
chmod a+r /dev/scd0

After that try playing audio cd and see if it works. If it does, you would have to mount /dev/hda5 to somewhere else.

[eco2geek]

Oh, one thing I found out regarding audio CDs, if you have KDE v3.2.3 (doesn't work for KDE v3.2.2):

If you stick an audio CD in, fire up the Konqueror Web browser, and type audiocd:/ in the address bar, it'll show you a list of the tracks on your audio CD! On mine, it also shows a folder called "Ogg Vorbis", and I can drag track(s) out of that folder and Konqueror will convert/save them as Ogg Vorbis files.

Apparently some versions of Konqueror that you can download from KDE also have MP3 conversion support built in.

Other protocols Konqueror supports (such as "fish" for ssh) can be seen by pulling up the KDE Info Center and clicking on Protocols.

Edit: I should say, it works with KDE 3.2.3 on Kanotix BugHunter 7a, but not with KDE 3.2.2 on Knoppix 3.4. Haven't tested it with Knoppix 3.6 yet.

[Kowood]

Oh, by the way, it's a DVD-ROM drive, (it plays cd's too 8) ) . Is this the problem?

[markleong]

No, should not be a problem.

Post the your /etc/fstab file here so we can see how are your drives mounted.

[Kowood]

When I was trying to save the /etc/fstab output, it wouldn't let me save to the hard drive for some reason, so I tried a floppy disk. It said that mount point /mnt/auto/floppy doesn't exist, or something like that. It's that same basic thing I get with the cdrom. I think there's a problem with both of them.

[markleong]

Kowood,

I don't think there is anything wrong with your system (perhaps the mount points have been changed).

Go to your home directory and type the following:-

cat /etc/fstab > fstabfile.txt

The output of fstab should be in fstabfile.txt.

[CrashedAgain]

Oh, one thing I found out regarding audio CDs, if you have KDE v3.2.3 (doesn't work for KDE v3.2.2):

If you stick an audio CD in, fire up the Konqueror Web browser, and type audiocd:/ in the address bar, it'll show you a list of the tracks on your audio CD! On mine, it also shows a folder called "Ogg Vorbis", and I can drag track(s) out of that folder and Konqueror will convert/save them as Ogg Vorbis files.

Apparently some versions of Konqueror that you can download from KDE also have MP3 conversion support built in.

Other protocols Konqueror supports (such as "fish" for ssh) can be seen by pulling up the KDE Info Center and clicking on Protocols.

Edit: I should say, it works with KDE 3.2.3 on Kanotix BugHunter 7a, but not with KDE 3.2.2 on Knoppix 3.4. Haven't tested it with Knoppix 3.6 yet.

How did you do this?? With Konqueror 3.3.0 on Knoppix 3.4 all I get is a 'Protocol not supported" message. No 'audiocd' protocol in info center either.

[eco2geek]

How did you do this?? With Konqueror 3.3.0 on Knoppix 3.4 all I get is a 'Protocol not supported" message. No 'audiocd' protocol in info center either.

Thinking:

That tells me Konqueror's "audiocd:/" capability is preinstalled in Kanotix BH5 and BH7, but apparently not in Knoppix. (I didn't have to "do" anything...saw it mentioned in a "For Dummies" book, of all things, tried it, and it worked.) Some Googling indicates the capability was new in KDE 2.1.

And it's being referred to as an "I/O slave" and part of the "kio" package...so...there it is in a Debian package search, called "kdemultimedia-kio-plugins" (not installed)...so...on my Knoppix 3.4 installation...

# apt-get update && apt-get install kdemultimedia-kio-plugins

Bingo. Now it's there. Try that.

[A. Jorge Garcia]

Where the heck do I find the KDE Info Center?

TIA,
AJG

[eco2geek]

On Knoppix 3.4, "K menu" > "System" > "Info Center", or use the command "kinfocenter &" in a console, or press Alt-F2 and type "kinfocenter" :wink:

[CrashedAgain]

How did you do this?? With Konqueror 3.3.0 on Knoppix 3.4 all I get is a 'Protocol not supported" message. No 'audiocd' protocol in info center either.

Thinking:

That tells me Konqueror's "audiocd:/" capability is preinstalled in Kanotix BH5 and BH7, but apparently not in Knoppix. (I didn't have to "do" anything...saw it mentioned in a "For Dummies" book, of all things, tried it, and it worked.) Some Googling indicates the capability was new in KDE 2.1.

And it's being referred to as an "I/O slave" and part of the "kio" package...so...there it is in a Debian package search, called "kdemultimedia-kio-plugins" (not installed)...so...on my Knoppix 3.4 installation...

# apt-get update && apt-get install kdemultimedia-kio-plugins

Bingo. Now it's there. Try that.

Done that, works now. Thanks