Can Old PC run Knoppix?

[Mic Q]

I have an old Pentium 166 with 520M harddisk, 32M ram running Win95 and was trying to use it to introduce Linux to my family but was unable to get Knoppix running. (Knoppix CD is okay, had tried it on the other pc)

I had updated the Bios Setting to enable to boot from CD but somehow it doesn't work.

Read the Knoppix text and understand that i need to create a boot floppy with a mkbootfloppy program.


1.Is my old pc able to run Knoppix
2.Where can i get this mkbootfloppy program.
3.How to do it.
4.Is there other way to get it running especially something like a PMI that i read from Knoppix.net/doc but was not able to understand.
5.Anything else that i should be “greedy” to try ;-)


Any advise, comments is very much appreciated.

[Cuddles]

I have an old Pentium 166 with 520M harddisk, 32M ram running Win95 and was trying to use it to introduce Linux to my family but was unable to get Knoppix running. (Knoppix CD is okay, had tried it on the other pc)

I had updated the Bios Setting to enable to boot from CD but somehow it doesn't work.

Read the Knoppix text and understand that i need to create a boot floppy with a mkbootfloppy program.


1.Is my old pc able to run Knoppix
2.Where can i get this mkbootfloppy program.
3.How to do it.
4.Is there other way to get it running especially something like a PMI that i read from Knoppix.net/doc but was not able to understand.
5.Anything else that i should be “greedy” to try ;-)


Any advise, comments is very much appreciated.
MicQ, lets see if I can get you a few answers...

I have an old Pentium 166 with 520M harddisk, 32M ram running Win95
1.Is my old pc able to run Knoppix

The problem in your system is going to be the memory. Not that it cant be run with this amount of memory, but, some of the "desktop" managers are more of a memory hog, like KDE and GNome. The below link, to the Docs on this forum, site, suggest using another, more memory friendly, desktop management program, like damnsmall, you can check the link, and find others. KDE is a very "environment rich" desktop manager, but at the cost of using memory, in which, you do not have.

Knoppix DOCS - Knoppix on Old PC (http://www.knoppix.net/docs/index.php/KnoppixOnOldPc)


...was trying to use it to introduce Linux to my family but was unable to get Knoppix running. (Knoppix CD is okay, had tried it on the other pc)

I had updated the Bios Setting to enable to boot from CD but somehow it doesn't work.

Read the Knoppix text and understand that i need to create a boot floppy with a mkbootfloppy program.

2.Where can i get this mkbootfloppy program.
3.How to do it.

First problem, to get the mkbootfloppy program, you need to be able to boot the Knoppix CD, the program is probably a script, or it could be a "full-fledged" program, but it is probably only able to be run on Knoppix OS booted, and from within a Konsole screen, which is like a "DOS Prompt" window, within Windows. This Konsole screen is the CLI for Linux, or Command Line Interface, very powerful, considering that you can run almost anything from the CLI, even if it may also have a GUI ( or Graphical User Interface ) to run a program as well.

So, considering the boot floppy, or getting your system to boot, first, is the concern, can you explain a little on "where" your system is not booting... You mentioned that you set the BIOS, but that it refuses to boot off the CD, why? Does the CD spin, light on the drive come on? Does it display anything that would be associated with Knoppix? Where, if it does start, does it stop, or get lost? Your system "may" just need some fine-tuning with some cheatcodes, to either enable certain things, or if the boot is getting stuck on something, disabling some things.

I have never found a system, having done Knoppix on three systems now, that no system can boot without at least one cheatcode on the boot: prompt, mine usually need a slew of them... My oldest system is a 128M memory, 233Mhz, Pentium II - it needed around five, or six, of these cheatcodes to get it up on the CD, but, I was able to get it running on it.

Hope this helps,
Ms. Cuddles

[Markus]

You might want to check out: http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/

[garyng]

try to be more specific, how it failed ?

I don't think you can run KNOPPIX(even it can boot) with so little memory. KNOPPIX use the ram to store quite a lot of things so even you don't run any X stuff, you will run out of memory soon.

[firebyrd10]

try to be more specific, how it failed ?

I don't think you can run KNOPPIX(even it can boot) with so little memory. KNOPPIX use the ram to store quite a lot of things so even you don't run any X stuff, you will run out of memory soon.

I read somewhere that you can run CLI effectivly with 16m.
If your able to get to a CLI you can creat a swap and then run some X programs.

[Mic Q]

Thanks all for the comments, think I'll still stick to Knoppix and try to brave it out. Will be hunting for more RAM though.

Now i understand how my colleages feel when they are new to PC and asked me for help. Deep inside I was always wondering "is it really so difficult to understand?" .... now it is happening to me :-(


Ms. Cuddles, thanks and some answers to your questions:

You mentioned that you set the BIOS, but that it refuses to boot off the CD, why? Does the CD spin, (NO)

light on the drive come on? (NO)

Does it display anything that would be associated with Knoppix? (NO)

the system stops at something like " Booting from ATAPI CD" in dos mode and stays there for approx 30 mins and i had to assume that it hangs

garyng, any advise?

Q

[Mic Q]

Ooops, the big NO doesn't mean to be shouting ... just trying to highlight it as an answer.... :oops:

[garyng]

I don't know if the newer KNOPPIX has changed the boot method. Before, it use the "emulate 1.44MB floppy on CD" type which should be able to boot on any bootable CD-ROM drive. However, it has a limitation of the boot image must be less than 1.44M. Could be that with all the features added, it needs to extend that to 2.88M or even the unlimited style(which syslinux that KNOPPIX use can support). The downside of this is, in really old machine, you just cannot boot and it seems to be the case.

Try to find an old image(something created around same time last year). I can boot on my pretty old Pentium 100 notebook.

Anyone one who is actively using KNOPPIX can confirm this, I haven't used KNOPPIX for quite a while.

[garyng]

try to be more specific, how it failed ?

I don't think you can run KNOPPIX(even it can boot) with so little memory. KNOPPIX use the ram to store quite a lot of things so even you don't run any X stuff, you will run out of memory soon.

I read somewhere that you can run CLI effectivly with 16m.
If your able to get to a CLI you can creat a swap and then run some X programs.

I don't think KNOPPIX is designed with this kind of environment. Sure you can get the text prompt(Base linux use about 4M or so). But what good can it be for most people ?

IMO, I would rather use VNC on a more capable machine and run the VNC client for 95 on the old machine to "remotely" enjoy/learn linux, oh the nxserver should work too.

Actually this setup is pretty good for linux workstation(P 166/32M), just that KNOPPIX seems to be the wrong distro for it. Try to find a remaster that is aimed at it.

damn small linux is one alternative, there was another one is sp something that is really nice too.

[dr_rude]

Good day,

I guess Damnsmall/Puppy would be nice to try. :?

[shah]

You mentioned that you set the BIOS, but that it refuses to boot off the CD, why? Does the CD spin, (NO)

light on the drive come on? (NO)

Does it display anything that would be associated with Knoppix? (NO)

the system stops at something like " Booting from ATAPI CD" in dos mode and stays there for approx 30 mins and i had to assume that it hangs

Since the cdrom not reading your cd, try that cd on other pc, see if it's okay.
If it can boot from other cd then you can try boot using smart boot manager's floppy to bypass bios problem:
http://btmgr.webframe.org/index.php3?body=download.html
:D :D

[Mic Q]

Thanks all,

managed to got it running .... create boot disk (02 floppy) using Knoppix at another PC.... BUT with 32M of ram is insufficient for any desktop environment :-)

anyway, at least satisfy my curiosity..


New Problem :

Boot up Knoppix LiveCD (w/o floppy) with another PC (my newphew's) P3, 128Mram and able to boot till after video card recognition after which knoppix searches knoppix system from the CD Rom /dev/scd0 and stops stating that it is unalble to locate CD Rom.

How is it possible since it is booting from CD until this stage?

Any hints?

[garyng]

Thanks all,

managed to got it running .... create boot disk (02 floppy) using Knoppix at another PC.... BUT with 32M of ram is insufficient for any desktop environment :-)

anyway, at least satisfy my curiosity..


New Problem :

Boot up Knoppix LiveCD (w/o floppy) with another PC (my newphew's) P3, 128Mram and able to boot till after video card recognition after which knoppix searches knoppix system from the CD Rom /dev/scd0 and stops stating that it is unalble to locate CD Rom.

How is it possible since it is booting from CD until this stage?

Any hints?

It is possible. The booting(from CD-ROM) is handled by the BIOS, not KNOPPIX. This usually means your CD-ROM is not recognized by the linux kernel, for whatever reason.

[Cuddles]

I am not sure about this, but, I think it should get you what your initial thought was,

Use your friends computer, boot the CD, then run the mkbootfloppy, then try the floppy / CD combination on your computer...

Considering the replies to your booting Knoppix, you might be able to "trim down" some of the boot stuff, through cheatcodes, and you might be able to get Knoppix running, say with a less "memory hog" desktop manager - look at the boot: cheatcodes on Desktop Managers...

It sounds like your system is a little older than assumed, considering the limitations on the CD boot, have you taken a look at any updates for your BIOS ? ( just some idle thoughts )

Hope this helps,
Ms. Cuddles
EDIT: oops, dummy me, went to take the kidlet to kindergarden, was thinking of this response, when I came back, thought I'd just post, DOH, should have done a refresh first... Sorry for the additional noise :(
END EDIT