compiling, depackaging, un- zipping, oh my.

[mimes]

I am really into Knoppix and the whole idea of linux, and I find it great that there are still a few good people in this world who don't just want to make a profit off everything. I have a really pressing question though. Why is it so difficult to install stuff on Knoppix? Why can't everything be downloaded, (I can't believe I'm saying this) like windows stuff, and just a click will bring up the installation wizard? Is it because Linus just didn't program Linux that way? Just wondering,
mimes.

[UnderScore]

If you are using Knoppix as a LiveCD with a PMI then you can use klik (http://klik.atekon.de/). If you have a hard drive install of Knoppix, then it is essentially Debian. Forgive me if I am telling you something you already know. Debian has thousands of programs available for you to install http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages. You do not need to download, compile and install from the source code (untar, ./configure, make, make install). Debian's package system, when properly configured, allows you to add/remove/update software programs quite easily. The program apt-get is a command line package management tool http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net/system/apt-get-intro.html. There is also graphical tools called synaptic and kpackage. Google should be able to provide you with some HOWTOs or guides to the Debian package system.
I hope this helps.
James

[CrashedAgain]

Installing programs with Debian is actually easier than in windows. especially since you do not have to keep rebooting your system!
See this for a brief overview of installing with apt-get. And also check out the 'apt-get tutorial' in the HDD install section of these forums. And check Debian for apt-get tutorials.

[gnarvaja]

Installing programs with Debian is actually easier than in windows. especially since you do not have to keep rebooting your system!
See this for a brief overview of installing with apt-get. And also check out the 'apt-get tutorial' in the HDD install section of these forums. And check Debian for apt-get tutorials.

The first apt-get you should do is aptitude:

apt-get install aptitude
If you really want it more hands-off (I don't), use klik

--GN

[CrashedAgain]

Installing programs with Debian is actually easier than in windows. especially since you do not have to keep rebooting your system!
See this for a brief overview of installing with apt-get...... .

I see I forgot to include the link. http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15298




The first apt-get you should do is aptitude:

If you really want it more hands-off (I don't), use klik



Actually the first apt-get you should (must) do is update to bring your package lists up to date. I think Knoppix already has aptitude included (some versions do, don't know if it's still there). Aptitude is an 'improved' apt-get, judging from the posts I've seen most people just use apt-get but use it instead if you prefer.

Klik is different; it sets up the equivalent of little mini directories in your /home directory & installs applications there. The intention is to provide a way to install applications which will run from CD (which can't be changed) by installing the application in a persistent home directory on the HD. While it will work with a HD install, there is no advantage in using it & you are probably better off using the standard debian package installer.

[jjmac]

Howdy mimes,

>>
Why is it so difficult to install stuff on Knoppix? Why can't everything be downloaded, (I can't believe I'm saying this) like windows stuff, and just a click will bring up the installation wizard? Is it because Linus just didn't program Linux that way? Just wondering,
>>

No, it's got nothing to do with LT, in fact, it has nothing to do with the kernel directly.

"Why is it so difficult" ...


It's not really, i think you just may be a little
unfamiliar with Linuxs' packaging systems. The
windows wizard method only seems easier, probably
because thats just what your used to. It is
inherently insecure though. Any errors or
bugs in the windows program will also, seemlessly
go on to your system, as well as the package :).

But they all have their quirks of course. As
mentioned above, Knoppix being a deb, it
uses the "dpkg", "apt" system, with some front
end choice.

As you get used to it, you will find it more
convieniant, than what your used to, and as
mentioned above ... it is better, method ...
safer and more flexible.

Your being very general though. And as some bumps
with a new technique are to be expected. If you post specifics on what problems
yourv'e had with it, then some one will be sure
to have some information to solve what ever it may be.

jm

[mimes]

I don't need help installing, I was just wondering why the interface couldn't be a bit more graphical.

[jjmac]

mimes

>>
I don't need help installing, I was just wondering why
the interface couldn't be a bit more graphical.
>>

Ok, ... :), it sounded as though
you were.

I think there are installeres around for linux, iirc.

Google might come up with something there. I find the
packaging system as it is much better than the dos
system of individual installers though. They seem
to hide the process away to much for my liking, and
don't provide the same level of control and order
that Linux does. Plus, i tend to see them as security
traps too.

[user unknown]

One reson is: Linux is a multiuser-system since it's beginning.
You may install software on a server, where no graphical user interface is present, and which gets used by hundred clients (where a userinterface might be present).

Another one is: Linux is a kind of unix, and a lot of programs are developped for multiple unixes and plattforms.
There are tools to build the installation packages (autoconf, automake, ...) which deal with all of them, so the developer only needs to create one installation package for all of them, which is much less work and easier to maintain.

No. 3: For which GUI should the installation work? KDE, Gnome, Fluxbox, IceWM, ...?
Supporting all would be a lot of additional work, and make the installation depend on a lot of things.
In contrast it is wise to keep dependencies low.

Windows is a surface-oriented system, where even the server has a GUI.
It's a monoculture, where all users have the same surface - they call it 'Windows'.
Therefore windows-installers don't have to deal with the problems, a fine tarball solves.

Installation is quiete easy, if you are used to it, and you are used to it, if you do install often.
If you install rarely, it's not much work.

A normal install means downloading from a mirror, unroll the tarball, and then the 3 magic steps: ./configure, make, (as root:) make install.
Few packages don't follow the golden rules.
Two reasons for this:
a) New developers who aren't used to it or informed.
Well - we are patient with newbies.
b) Big Players like Oracle, Sun, Adobe. Especially if they ship their software even to the windows-poor.
They have their own tradition and like to do how they ever did, and how their customers are used to, from other plattforms.
Well - we accept foreign traditions - don't we?

[jjmac]

'user unknown'

Yes, basically ...

The 'three magic steps' are ok as it goes, but it
can be a bit problematic to maintain after a while.

I used to do that in /usr/local
at one time. But even
that got a little hard to keep track of.

'checkinstall' is a good little program for packaging
tar ball installs up in. Iv'e found it quite
good.

I'd rather just use debs policy build system currently though, the ...

".dsc and .diff and .tar.gz" threesomes.

I had no end of problems trying to figure out how
to use them, :), but it's surprisingly straight
forward once it's gotten used to.


jm