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cindy
06-07-2005, 03:48 AM
I just started using knoppix (3.7) and love it. I installed it in the HD of an old 500 Mhz P3. I'd like to connect it to my home network via wireless. Since I'm new to Linux I'm not ready to configre/compile drivers or install kernals. Maybe when I'm learned more about the system but for now I'd just like to get it on the Internet. I'm willing to spend $80 - $120 for a access point - preferable one that will connect to the computer's USP port. I also have an ethernet adapter I put on the machine if I find a wireless access point that uses an ethernet port. Can someone recommend a USB or ethernet access point that comes with drivers that will work on a knoppix 3.7 machine?

For example, would the D-Link AirPlus Xtreme G DWL G810 be a good idea?
http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/D_Link_AirPlus_Xtreme_G_DWL_G810/DWLG810/C29353/froogle/

Or the EDIMAX EW-7126 Wireless LAN PCI adaptor?
http://edimax.com/

Any help and advice is appreciated!!!

Harry Kuhman
06-07-2005, 05:48 AM
I just started using knoppix (3.7) and love it. I installed it in the HD of an old 500 Mhz P3. I'd like to connect it to my home network via wireless. Since I'm new to Linux I'm not ready to configre/compile drivers or install kernals. Maybe when I'm learned more about the system but for now I'd just like to get it on the Internet. I'm willing to spend $80 - $120 for a access point - preferable one that will connect to the computer's USP port. I also have an ethernet adapter I put on the machine if I find a wireless access point that uses an ethernet port. Can someone recommend a USB or ethernet access point that comes with drivers that will work on a knoppix 3.7 machine?

For example, would the D-Link AirPlus Xtreme G DWL G810 be a good idea?
http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/D_Link_AirPlus_Xtreme_G_DWL_G810/DWLG810/C29353/froogle/

Or the EDIMAX EW-7126 Wireless LAN PCI adaptor?
http://edimax.com/

Any help and advice is appreciated!!!

I'm confused by your use of terms. Generally you don't deal with "drivers that work on a Knoppix 3.7 machine" at all when selecting an access point or a router with a built in access point. A router connects to your DSL or cable modem through ethernet (never through USB) and your computers connect to it. Such routers used to cost $100 US or lots more, but are dirt cheap now. CompUSA had several dfferent ones for $10 or less after rebate last week, and Best But even had a Linksys for $5. I also talked with someone on this site who got a very well tought of high speed 902.11g Linksys router at Best Buy last week for under $40.

An access point is someimes available without a router built in (or the NAT portion of can be disabled and the device just used as an access point). But access points do not talk to other access points; you don't stick one on your Knoppix box and connect wirelessly to your wireless router. To connect to your router you need a network card. It can be a simple wired ethernet nic or a wireless network card. Wireless cards are available in PCI format, PCMCIA format and as USB devices. Personally I would suggest that you avoid the USB devices; they tend to be much harder to get working than the other two types. Still, not all network cards work under Knoppix (I have 3 PCMCIA cards and only 1 works with Knoppix so far). Again, if you shop a little you can find deals on wireless network cards. They may retail for around $30 for an 802.11b device and around $50 for an 802.11g device but can be had for much less after rebate. 802.11b tends to be better supported in Knoppix at this point.

One other thing that you can do is run an ethernet NIC in your computer and then hook it to a wireless device that can connect to your router or access point. Such a device is not called an access point; it's called a bridge. And again there would be no special support for Koppix needed here; as long as Knoppix supported your Ethernet card you will connect to the bridge just fine. I've used many different brands and models of ethernet NIC's and have yet to come across on that will not work, but I have seen reports of some problems with the newer gigabit cards.

cindy
06-07-2005, 04:04 PM
I just started using knoppix (3.7) and love it. I installed it in the HD of an old 500 Mhz P3. I'd like to connect it to my home network via wireless. Since I'm new to Linux I'm not ready to configre/compile drivers or install kernals. Maybe when I'm learned more about the system but for now I'd just like to get it on the Internet. I'm willing to spend $80 - $120 for a access point - preferable one that will connect to the computer's USP port. I also have an ethernet adapter I put on the machine if I find a wireless access point that uses an ethernet port. Can someone recommend a USB or ethernet access point that comes with drivers that will work on a knoppix 3.7 machine?

For example, would the D-Link AirPlus Xtreme G DWL G810 be a good idea?
http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/D_Link_AirPlus_Xtreme_G_DWL_G810/DWLG810/C29353/froogle/

Or the EDIMAX EW-7126 Wireless LAN PCI adaptor?
http://edimax.com/

Any help and advice is appreciated!!!

I'm confused by your use of terms. Generally you don't deal with "drivers that work on a Knoppix 3.7 machine" at all when selecting an access point or a router with a built in access point. A router connects to your DSL or cable modem through ethernet (never through USB) and your computers connect to it. Such routers used to cost $100 US or lots more, but are dirt cheap now. CompUSA had several dfferent ones for $10 or less after rebate last week, and Best But even had a Linksys for $5. I also talked with someone on this site who got a very well tought of high speed 902.11g Linksys router at Best Buy last week for under $40.

An access point is someimes available without a router built in (or the NAT portion of can be disabled and the device just used as an access point). But access points do not talk to other access points; you don't stick one on your Knoppix box and connect wirelessly to your wireless router. To connect to your router you need a network card. It can be a simple wired ethernet nic or a wireless network card. Wireless cards are available in PCI format, PCMCIA format and as USB devices. Personally I would suggest that you avoid the USB devices; they tend to be much harder to get working than the other two types. Still, not all network cards work under Knoppix (I have 3 PCMCIA cards and only 1 works with Knoppix so far). Again, if you shop a little you can find deals on wireless network cards. They may retail for around $30 for an 802.11b device and around $50 for an 802.11g device but can be had for much less after rebate. 802.11b tends to be better supported in Knoppix at this point.

One other thing that you can do is run an ethernet NIC in your computer and then hook it to a wireless device that can connect to your router or access point. Such a device is not called an access point; it's called a bridge. And again there would be no special support for Koppix needed here; as long as Knoppix supported your Ethernet card you will connect to the bridge just fine. I've used many different brands and models of ethernet NIC's and have yet to come across on that will not work, but I have seen reports of some problems with the newer gigabit cards.

Thanks Harry!

Sorry about my confused use of termonology!

Can you please explain a little further? If I install an ethernet card with a Linux driver so that Knoppix recognizes the ethernnet card and then connect a "bridge" to the ethernet card, will I also need to install a Linux driver for the bridge?

Harry Kuhman
06-07-2005, 05:12 PM
Can you please explain a little further? If I install an ethernet card with a Linux driver so that Knoppix recognizes the ethernnet card and then connect a "bridge" to the ethernet card, will I also need to install a Linux driver for the bridge?
No, if you use a standard ethernet card that Knoppix supports it will detect it and set it up at boot time. As long as there is DHCP available everything will be configured properly for you.

If that ethernet NIC is wired to your router then you're done (assuming the router is set up / has been working fine with Windows).

If you wire the Ethernet NIC to a wireless bridge, then it should still work. Clearly there is some setup information that the bridge needs to connect to the access point (like the SSID for starters, and any encryption keys to be used). These are normally set up through a "web interface" in the device. If previously set up in Windows then you should need to make no changes. If not then you can set it up using a browser under Linux, but you might have to do a manual netcardconfig the very first time to get valid IP configuration information, since you would not have access to a DHCP server at that point. Of course, some hardware may have a different type of interface, I'm only speaking in generalities.

It's certainly worth mentioning that bridges are not common. And as a result of that not inexpensive. In the ppast two weeks I've seen many wireless routers offered for $10 or less after rebate. I know the highly prized Linksys 802.11g WRT54G was available for under $40. But bridges are not sold in great numbers and not inexpensive. In a quick check of the Linksys website I had to search to even find one (http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?prid=615&scid=35), it didn't seem to show up on the basic lists of products. The nice things about a bridge are that you can support multiple computers (and other ethernet devices) in an area with one wireless device. Say for example you wanted to wirelessly connect a cluster of computers in an upstairs computer room to a high speed modem and a wireless router downstairs without running wires between floors and without using multiple wireless cards in each compuiter (but mostly bridges like this find their use in an office setting, not in the home). And when using a bridge you eliminate wireless setup issues in the computer. The down side is that the computer still has to be wired to something (the bridge), that the bridge generally costs more than a wireless card will cost (particularly if you shop for deals on the card), and you can't run some hacker style wireless network detection programs (http://www.netstumbler.com/) or encryption breaking programs (http://airsnort.shmoo.com/) over a bridge, these require a compatable wireless network card in your computer. Unfortunately, because the card makers and chip makers have been unwilling to give out technical details that would let the Linux community write their own high quality drivers, many cards are not supported under Linux, or are only supported by "wrapper" software that attempts to let Linux use the driver that has been written for Windows.

I would find it handy to have a wireless bridge myself. But although I have several wireless routers and wireless cards, I do not have a bridge and none of my wireless routers can be used in a bridge mode (which I see as a major oversight on the part of the router makers that would make their product highly desirable at minimal or no extra cost to them).

I'm not in a position to tell you what cards are directly supported in Knoppix. I expect that you can collect some of that information by reading old articles in this forum, and maybe more by Google searches. A wiki article in the documentation section (http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Main_Page) of this webiste on "Wireless cards supported under Knoppix" would certainly be a valuable addition to our documentation and could be enhanced as more people add their cards to the list, but does not yet exist. Maybe someone will start it (maybe you?).

cindy
06-07-2005, 08:09 PM
Can you please explain a little further? If I install an ethernet card with a Linux driver so that Knoppix recognizes the ethernnet card and then connect a "bridge" to the ethernet card, will I also need to install a Linux driver for the bridge?
No, if you use a standard ethernet card that Knoppix supports it will detect it and set it up at boot time. As long as there is DHCP available everything will be configured properly for you.

If that ethernet NIC is wired to your router then you're done (assuming the router is set up / has been working fine with Windows).

If you wire the Ethernet NIC to a wireless bridge, then it should still work. Clearly there is some setup information that the bridge needs to connect to the access point (like the SSID for starters, and any encryption keys to be used). These are normally set up through a "web interface" in the device. If previously set up in Windows then you should need to make no changes. If not then you can set it up using a browser under Linux, but you might have to do a manual netcardconfig the very first time to get valid IP configuration information, since you would not have access to a DHCP server at that point. Of course, some hardware may have a different type of interface, I'm only speaking in generalities.

It's certainly worth mentioning that bridges are not common. And as a result of that not inexpensive. In the ppast two weeks I've seen many wireless routers offered for $10 or less after rebate. I know the highly prized Linksys 802.11g WRT54G was available for under $40. But bridges are not sold in great numbers and not inexpensive. In a quick check of the Linksys website I had to search to even find one (http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?prid=615&scid=35), it didn't seem to show up on the basic lists of products. The nice things about a bridge are that you can support multiple computers (and other ethernet devices) in an area with one wireless device. Say for example you wanted to wirelessly connect a cluster of computers in an upstairs computer room to a high speed modem and a wireless router downstairs without running wires between floors and without using multiple wireless cards in each compuiter (but mostly bridges like this find their use in an office setting, not in the home). And when using a bridge you eliminate wireless setup issues in the computer. The down side is that the computer still has to be wired to something (the bridge), that the bridge generally costs more than a wireless card will cost (particularly if you shop for deals on the card), and you can't run some hacker style wireless network detection programs (http://www.netstumbler.com/) or encryption breaking programs (http://airsnort.shmoo.com/) over a bridge, these require a compatable wireless network card in your computer. Unfortunately, because the card makers and chip makers have been unwilling to give out technical details that would let the Linux community write their own high quality drivers, many cards are not supported under Linux, or are only supported by "wrapper" software that attempts to let Linux use the driver that has been written for Windows.

I would find it handy to have a wireless bridge myself. But although I have several wireless routers and wireless cards, I do not have a bridge and none of my wireless routers can be used in a bridge mode (which I see as a major oversight on the part of the router makers that would make their product highly desirable at minimal or no extra cost to them).

I'm not in a position to tell you what cards are directly supported in Knoppix. I expect that you can collect some of that information by reading old articles in this forum, and maybe more by Google searches. A wiki article in the documentation section (http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Main_Page) of this webiste on "Wireless cards supported under Knoppix" would certainly be a valuable addition to our documentation and could be enhanced as more people add their cards to the list, but does not yet exist. Maybe someone will start it (maybe you?).



Thanks again Harry. You've really helped me understand this stuff a lot better.

One problem I'm obviously having is making sense of the terminology - "wireless routers", "bridges", "wireless network card","access point", etc...

The Linksys 802.11g WRT54G you mentioned is only $75.95 at http://www.computers4sure.com/product.asp?productID=1857549&info=Tech#tabs

The specs say however its runs under only under Microsoft Windows 98SE/2000/ME/XP.

If I understand your post correctly, a device such as this attached to my Knoppix machine via an Ethernet Network Card would work (without a special Linux driver). If you would please tell me if I am interpreting what you wrote correctly.

Harry Kuhman
06-07-2005, 09:33 PM
The Linksys 802.11g WRT54G you mentioned is only $75.95 at http://www.computers4sure.com/product.asp?productID=1857549&info=Tech#tabs

To me that seems like a high price, considering that a wireless router like the WRT54G actually does more and costs less. But they make and sell lots more of the WRT54G. And prices of all of these items have come down nicely, I paid more than $100 for my first Linksys router, and it didn't even have wireless capability, just a small wired router.


The specs say however its runs under only under Microsoft Windows 98SE/2000/ME/XP.

If I understand your post correctly, a device such as this attached to my Knoppix machine via an Ethernet Network Card would work (without a special Linux driver). If you would please tell me if I am interpreting what you wrote correctly.
I don't know anything about this vendor. I'm concerned by more than just the statement that it needs a MS OS, they show a device that looks completely different than the device on the Lnksys page (http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?prid=615&scid=35) and they call it a Wireless Router. Routers are very different devices (routers will generally not talk to other routers, they talk to bridges and to wireless network cards), so I would be very careful about what this vendor is actually selling. Maybe they are selling the bridge and got the picture and even the product description wrong, but maybe they are selling something else and got the model number wrong. And bridge or router, you do not need a MS OS to use it. Take your specs from the vendor's website, not from what some discount reseller states. You might even want to read the manual for the device (ftp://ftp.linksys.com/pdf/wet54gs5_ug.pdf) right from Linksys, it will give you a lot of good information. Or at least read the spec sheet (ftp://ftp.linksys.com/datasheet/wet54gs5_ds.pdf), it clearly states that you can connect non-MS devices to it and that no drivers are needed. But none of the pictires look like what that reseller is showing you.

Harry Kuhman
06-07-2005, 09:42 PM
Opps, I spotted the difference. The Bridge that I pointed you to (not that I'm recommending it, it was just provided as an example of a bridge), is a WET54GS5. The $75.95 device that you found, which is a router and not a brige, is a WRT54GS. And in my mind that's a very high price to pay for such a router, I would not suggest dealing this this reseller. Read this thread (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19262&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0), particularly the last post by Mattr35.