Desktop Publishing

[A. Jorge Garcia]

My wife is quitting her job and going whole hog into Personal Histories. For this I have to retool her home office to publish these personal histories from soup to nuts.

Rather than investing in more bloated M$ apps, I was going to get her to use KNOPPIX!

So, my question is, does KNOPPIX have everything we need, or most of what we need, the rest we could download onto a knx-hdinstalled PC?

For example, I know that The Gimp is like Adobe PhotoShop and is already included in the KNOPPIX CD. What about stuff like Adobe Pagemaker or Quark Express or Adobe Acrobat?

Anyone out there familiar with the publishing industry, I'd REALLY appreciate your input as I'll be the tech advisor on this venture. :roll:

She will do all the business end of lining-up and interviewing clients (10 hours or so on mp3 player/recorder) and writing. I will do all the transcribing, desktop publishing, scanning of pictures and layout. We have to get to the point where each book is ready for a bindery.

BTW, if anyone can suggest a good bindery, I'd REALLY appreciate that too!

TIA,

[rickenbacherus]

This might be of some help.
http://linuxshop.ru/linuxbegin/win-lin-soft-en/

[MattT]

The latest OpenOffice 1.1Beta has some nice new fetures that will help with publishing. For example PDF exporting. Here is from their page:

"Import/export formats such as PDF, Macromedia Flash, DocBook, several PDA Office file formats, flat XML and XHTML"

If you do a hd-install I would definitely check it out.

[A. Jorge Garcia]

OK it looks like what we need is Desktop Publishing and Typesetting software.

As for Typesetting, I see that KNOPPIX has LyX and teTeX on the CD. I thought that LyX and KLyX work with LaTeX, but LaTeX is not on the CD (neither is KLyX, BTW).

I'm wondering if anyone out there has had any experience using LyX with teTeX and what success you have had (with and without KNOPPIX)?

TIA,

[eadz]

While there are powerful software such as LaTex for publishing, I would reccomend using openoffice to start with. For starters, If you decide to go back to windows, OO is there.

I'm not sure what _sort_ of publishing your wife is planning on doing, but I would reccomend writing in OO, i.e. get it to the final copy. Then once all the text is there, you could format it in LyX or similar. Although I think OO is pretty powerful under the hood.

[A. Jorge Garcia]

Thanx for your input! You've just confirmed my thinking on this. Believe it or not, that's exactly what I just told her.

Getting her to switch from M$ WINDOZE OFFICE to KNOPPIX OO is hard enough, making her switch to TeX straight away - forget about it! Anyway, she's going to handle the OO and I'll handle the LyX.

Regards,

[besonen]

http://web2.altmuehlnet.de/fschmid/

[Rono64]

Hello to all, I am a former Mac Addict (I used to love Macs) then along came OS X... an ok OS, but frankly the learning curve taught me UNIX, which in turn led me to LINUX, well the rest is history, I made it my mission to replace everything I do on a mac in linux. I work for a publishing comapny and I am almost fully switched over, for a while I used mandrake on a PPC, but it is buggy on a mac, so I loaded Knoppix onto an old (really old) i686 and boom everything I need.
Here is a list of what is needed.
Photoshop = The Gimp/Kooka
Illustrator = Sketch/Karbon14/Scribus
Indesign/Quark= Scribus

And that's it... Scribus lets me create a PDF which I can send off to the printers and it's ready to go.

My biggest complaints, fonts, but I need to learn how to add fonts, I have about 3000 mac postscript and truetype fonts, I am sure there is a way to do it, I just need to learn. Also Barcode creation, there are several options, again I need to learn the installs etc. So if you really want to do it... linux more than measures up.
now if Knoppix ever ported to a PPC, I could use all these old Macs I have.

[aay]

And that's it... Scribus lets me create a PDF which I can send off to the printers and it's ready to go.

Open Office also lets you print to PDF. The new beta version even makes this a bit easier and for the first time includes this function in the windows version as well.


My biggest complaints, fonts, but I need to learn how to add fonts, I have about 3000 mac postscript and truetype fonts, I am sure there is a way to do it, I just need to learn.

To install fonts just open the KDE control center, go to System, and locate the Font Installer. It's pretty easy from there. You can also simply create a .fonts directory in your home directory and place your fonts in there. The will then be available to the local user.


Also Barcode creation, there are several options, again I need to learn the installs etc.

Kbarcode ('http://www.kbarcode.net/') looks like a really nice app for this. There is no debian version (yet) but I imagine it won't take too long for someone to make one.


]So if you really want to do it... linux more than measures up. now if Knoppix ever ported to a PPC, I could use all these old Macs I have.

There is a debian ppc version ('http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/'). If thats a bit over the top then you can look at Yellow Dog Linux ('http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/') which is designed soley to run on macs.

[Rono64]

Thank's for the font info, I thought I was doing something wrong.

Turns out I have 2 kinds of CD's in my archive those that a GNU/Linux build can read and those it can't. Both kinds were made on a Mac but some I think on an older Mac Os just don't read, so when my new burner arrives I will re-master all the "crappy" ones and let's hope.

I have tried Yellow Dog, and I prefer Mandrake for the PPC ( Knoppix would be best). As for Debian, well when I am braver.

[A. Jorge Garcia]

Photoshop = The Gimp/Kooka
Illustrator = Sketch/Karbon14/Scribus
Indesign/Quark= Scribus

OOO! This is just the info I need. Thanx for the info on desktop publishing apps for linux!

Now I take it that you use these linux apps professionally and you like them as much or better than the commercial versions. Is that so?

Also, it seems that you have extensive experience with the commercial versions, did that make it easier or harder for you to transition to the linux apps? I guess my question really is: if I have no desktop publishing experience as yet, what kind of learning curve am I looking at to use say The Gimp/Sketch/Scribus?

So, you used to use Adobe Photoshop/Adobe Illustrator/Quark Express? Can I realistically replace these with The Gimp/Sketch/Scribus?

I hope I'm not bothering you, but here's one last question. What exactly is the function of each of these apps (Photoshop/Illustrator/Quark) and why do you need to use them in combination?

BTW, I've been studying LyX and find that it does all the typesetting and layout work that I need to do and can even output *.tex, *.ps and *.pdf files. :P

TIA,

[Rono64]

I will gladly explain the difference and uses of the programs.

Photoshop: This is a pixel based image editing program, basically I use Photoshop to scan and correct any images that are needed for the publication, a very high end image editor.

Gimp: Basically the same as photoshop, it lacks cmyk support (that is cyan, magenta, yellow and black) this is the color method used for most printing but that said more and more of the places I deal with prefer a RGB pdf and they do the conversion, so it's split right now. Gimps abilities are a bit behind Photoshop but again, Gimp is much newer and catching up really, really fast. Plus it's not bloated with 20 years of code.

I use Kooka to scan, I know Gimp plug ins exist but I prefer some of the options Kooka offers, also I like Xsane to scan, it's good too. Scanning software is really dependent on the end user, the more you know, the more you can make it do for you. A decent scanner can be had fairly cheaply, no need for high end as most color work is scanned at 300dpi.

OK next: Illustrator: this is a vector drawing program, instead of pixels it draws the images based on mathematical formulas. Much more efficient, but not all the capabilities of a pixel editor. I use this program for book covers and logos as font control is much superior in a vector program, you can scale and adjust the fonts more freely, also you can convert them to vector objects which means no lost fonts in the file when sent to press. A good trick is to manipulate your font as a black and white vector then import it into your pixel program (gimp etc) and apply the filters and effects available there.

IN the GNU/Linux camp we have: Sketch, Karbon14 (part of Koffice) and Scribus. All of these are vector programs.

Sketch is closest to Illustrator, again a few versions behind, but I can use it, so it must be ok, if you are new and have never used Illustrator or Freehand, this program should do fine.

Karbon14, this program has really nice vector font control, so it is good for doing logos.

Scribus has the best of vector shape editing of the 3 programs, meaning you can take a shape and tinker with it by moving points.

OK onto page layout:
Quark has been the leader for a number of years, with that said just try and get tech support, their answer will be something along the lines of "it's your fault. not our software" which is bull.
InDesign (and pagemaker too) is Adobes answer to quark.
Basically you import your images and lay them out and type set them for printing in these programs. The reason you use these programs instead of office and other word proccesing type programs is the pre-press output capabilities. Basically how well they handle a file to output to your printer. Most of these programs have some flightcheck ability (the ability to check for errors in out put that will come back to haunt you when you print) also they have very strong CMYK support, again made for press work.

A NOTE OF WARNING! be very careful when making pdf's with the print to pdf option, this does not always make a correct pdf and can cause so much trouble it is beyond belief, pages can print in the wrong order, color control..look out..a blue image can print like a rainbow of colors etc.

OK on to Scribus: This program was a joy to find, why? because I was terrified I would not find a real pre-press layout program in the GNU/Linux world, whew thanks for Scribus. Now for using it, just like Gimp, it's a bit behind but not that far, I predict it will overtake Quark with the next release and then one or two later catch up with InDesign.
It's pdf output already beats Quarks, the pdf's are cmyk and you have control over your compression etc and font inclusion which is very important.

As far as a new user to these programs, well all I can say is you may have less of a learning curve than me as I have to unlearn some stuff from the Mac programs etc. Most of these programs have excellent on line tutorials and once again the GNU/Linux community seems eager to help people so it's worth the effort. Also the price. The photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign package if you bought them bundled together is close to 1000 dollars, Quark about 600 to 900 by itself.
The cost for the GNU/Linux, free plus free upgrades and endless support.
The commercial stuff, 200 dollar upgrades and poor support, they outsource most of it to companies outside the US and the people just read manuals, they really don't know the software.

I hope this helps and my appologies to all for being long winded.

[aay]

Ronco64,

I was just browsing Freshmeat and even today there was a new release of Scribus (development release) which adds the following new features.


This release features improved text rendering, a Convert Text to Polygons command, support for automatic kerning values from .afm files, a Color Model Websafe RGB feature, and the ability to adjust the display for true WYSIWYG. Polygon editing was improved, and polygons can now be combined. Various bugs were also fixed.

You might also want to try Sodipodi. Strange name, but a very nice vector graphics program. It's also on Knoppix.

[A. Jorge Garcia]

OK, so which of these great packages are on the KNOPPIX CD?

TIA,

[Rono64]

All of them as far as I can tell, I am away from my Knoppix machine and installing Debian on an old iMac at the moment.

And thanks for the software info to aay, I also discovered 2 barcode programs on Debian, so I will see if I can get em in Knoppix.

[A. Jorge Garcia]

Rono64, thanx for your "long-winded" replies, keep them coming!

Anyway, I'm curious what you do with all these apps. What business are you in? Do you work for yourself?

What I need to do is layout and typesetting for my clients' books as prepress for a bindery. Do you have any experience along these lines?

TIA,

[aay]

If the barcode programs are in the debian repositories, and if you have done a hdinstall. All you need to do (as root) is apt-get install programx. You can do apt-get -s install programx to simulate what changes will be made to your system if you install this program (nice). If they aren't in the debian repositories, they still might be provided in the form of .debs from the author's website. Try using dpkg to install if that is the case. If you do a hdinstall and need add new programs (or update) you will soon be singing the praises of apt-get.

[Rono64]

I work as the art director and prepress for a book publisher, we do mostly Graphic Novels and a few fantasy books. I have about 20 yrs prepress experience, I am a Photoshop semi-expert and a def. PDF expert. I have worked in traditional printing and also oversaw the re-tooling and move to electronic pre-press and a totally digital workflow.

I have experience in most forms of bookbinding and set up.

I am still putting the programs through some testing, but everything I have seen so far has shown it can be done.

My old cdr drive died and I am waiting for a new one, once that arrives I will have a more definate answer but I would say there is a 99% chance this will all work.

if I can help you please feel free to email or post a question.
I have more than likely encountered the problem.

And once again thanks to aay for the software tips, I have spent 5 hours trying to install Debian on a ppc...forget it...not gonna happen, some strange freeze happens when I am finalizing the aps database.
I think my disc 2 is corrupted because it locks up there every time.

So it's back to mandrake for now on the iMac, oh how I long for a Knoppix PPC port. A week ago Mandrake was fine, but I tried Knoppix and damn....Mandrake is like a toy now.

[A. Jorge Garcia]

I need a bindery that can do a simple 50pp paperback to a 200pp hardcover with gold lettering on the cover and gold leaf on the paper's edge. Can you recommend one?

TIA,

[Rono64]

Wow, the paperback is pretty standard but the gold leafing will require an expert for sure.
I would look into a large printer such as Quebecor inc. they are huge and print most of the North American magazines.
Also do a business search in Dearborn Michigan, lots of book printers there, none I have worked with, but they seem very affordable.
If I come accross any more info I will post it.

[Rono64]

ok here are a few places you might want to contact.

www.cushing-malloy.com
www.sheridanbooks.com

This last company does quality leather binding gold leaf etc.
Bold print inc.
their web site is not fully up.
here is a contact: 1-800-551-8874

they may be what you are looking for.

[Rono64]

Just checking to see how things are going?
The PDF's created by Scribus are perfect for pre-press and Scribus handles my installed fonts better than any of the other programs.
Let me know how the progress goes and if you have any problems.

[A. Jorge Garcia]

Thanx for your concern! You've been a big help.

I'm currently trying to figure out QLyx and Scribus. These apps look like just what I need! I'll have to play around with scanners and voice recognition later on.

My wife is doing the interviews and copy, I have to wait for her to complete interviews to do transcriptions (hence voice recog) and then wait for her copy (hence QLyx and Scribus, etc).

Regards,

[probono]

You can even run PageMaker or InDesign under Crossover Office (a modified version of WINE...) on Knoppix

[Rono64]

An update on the bookbinding information, BookSurge, a company I use for 100% of my digital printing has now got hardcover books, these have dustjackets and gold foil lettering, their prices are really fair, check em out if you can.
www.booksurge.com
If you need a contact there I can pass along my rep's info.
Oh yeah, the KDE font control panel works 100% with Scribus, so just add fonts in KDE and boom you can use them in Scribus.

[A. Jorge Garcia]

Thanx, I'll definitely have to take a look at your bindery!