Difficulties with Bittorrent downloading

[Jorge Martínez]

I wanted to download the DVD iso and tried to follow the script as shown in "Download or Buy Knoppix - Download with Bittorrent", 2nd paragraph. Incidentally, I couldn't copy and paste this text to quote it here.

So I downloaded as advised Bittorrent (In spite of having it already in the 3.9 CD I'm using) and the DL file and placed both in the directory where I want to save the iso image. I went to a Konsole and got this:


knoppix@0[hdb1]$ cd knop
knoppix@0[knop]$ dir
KNOPPIX_V4.0DVD-2005-08-16-EN.torrent
bittorrent-4.0.4.linux_i686-2_al
knoppix@0[knop]$ --btdownloadgui KNOPPIX-2005-08-16.torrent
bash: --btdownloadgui: command not found
knoppix@0[knop]$
knoppix@0[knop]$ btdownloadgui KNOPPIX-2005-08-16.torrent
bash: btdownloadgui: command not found
knoppix@0[knop]$

I may be doing something wrong but can't figure out what it is.

[Harry Kuhman]

Jorge,

I'm not going to be able to walk you through a Knoppix BT install and use, as I have only used BT under Windows, but wanted to mention a few items:

It is good that you did try to download a new version, the BitTorrent on 3.9 is an older version. At least with Windows this version has priblems with files over 2 gig (I don't know for sure that the Linux version has the same problem, since it's likely a Windows problem, but since it's mostly the same code it could).

The torrent file does not need to be placed where you want the download to be placed. Download placement is part of the BT setup. On the system I use to download and seed I keep the torrents on the desktop, but the files in a BT directory on the second partition.

Hopefully someone who knows Linux better can talk you through using BT there.

[killozap]

I have downloaded the DVD via mirror (not torrent) and it works fine.
Bittorrent is a fine way (like other share-programs) to spread software but its under attack.

[Harry Kuhman]

I have downloaded the DVD via mirror (not torrent) and it works fine.
Bittorrent is a fine way (like other share-programs) to spread software but its under attack.
What the heck does under attack mean? The checksum that BitTorrent does on every segment as well as the entire file pretty much assures a user that someone can't insert anything malicious if one gets the torrent file from a known good source (like the official Knoppix BitTorrent source). Sure, if you are an idiot and go to warez sites and get something claiming to be the latest greatest warez ripoff you might well get infected, but you can do that with a more traditional file download just as well, it's not BitTorrent that is the issue there. If you're saying that RIAA and MPAA don't like BitTorrent, well screw them, I don't like the MPAA or the RIAA and their very criminal ways. BitTorrent, as we are using it, is a very legitimate tool and perhaps what they don't like is that it demonstrates the valid use of the very legitimate tool (by the way, they don't like the CD burner in your computer either, want to give that up and go back to floppies?).

Just for reference, the 4.0.1 DVD download by BitTorrent delivered more megabytes of files in the first 10 days that the torrents were up than the 3.9 downloads did in the first three months. My Knoppixt BitTorent downloads have been much fater than the old mrror downloads, even with a growing number of Knoppix users. And I used to get a lot of corrupt mirror downloads (around 50%!), and have had no bad BitTorrent downloads. It's fine that you got a good mirror download, and the mirriors are certainly handy for some people behind firewalls that they don't control, but for the average user BitTorrent is a far better choice.

[killozap]

Under Attack means that users are told (via press, media etc.) using bittorent is illegal and so stop using it.
I have tried to get a version of Propellerhead Rebirth via bittorent and no sources were available.
Rebirth is released as free software after the selling has stopped.

Nochma in Deutsch :
Die Leute werden durch Medienberichte bekloppt gemacht...

[Harry Kuhman]

BiTTorrent is perfectly legal and to say that you used an alternative (in this case the mirrors) because BT is "under attack" only helps spread the fud. In this case there is a good torrent available for each of the English and German versions, and I encourage using them over the mirrors for many reasons.

[killozap]

I have not tried to download knoppix via bittorrent after trying do download rebirth with that. Perhaps i was too late downloading rebirth with bittorrent, but i am not sure. The Music and Movie-Industry is attakcing all free sharing-nets. But i got it on ebay, ehhh emule ...

I will load the next (as my last CD) via bittorent ...

[Jorge Martínez]

Hi Harry,

I might as well download it under Windows, something I'll try to do on my own. Should I fail, I'll ask you again for specific advice.

However, I think the matter of downloading the DVD iso image from a "light" CD version, currently 3.9, with Bittorrent is most important and would deserve that somebody write a fool-proof detailed script such as the one found in "Download or Buy Knoppix - Download with Bittorrent", 2nd paragraph, but workable and fully tested

Thank you.

[Harry Kuhman]

Hi Harry,

I might as well download it under Windows, something I'll try to do on my own. Should I fail, I'll ask you again for specific advice.

However, I think the matter of downloading the DVD iso image from a "light" CD version, currently 3.9, with Bittorrent is most important and would deserve that somebody write a fool-proof detailed script such as the one found in "Download or Buy Knoppix - Download with Bittorrent", 2nd paragraph, but workable and fully tested
I agree Jorge that being able to download the newer version with the older version is important. Just don't have enough Linux experience to be the one to do that write-up. And I have been watching the version numbers and am very disapointed that Knoppix hasn't given much priority to installing a more recent version of BT.

I don't expect that you'll have any trouble with the Windows version. Be sure that you use a current version (4.0.3 or 4.0.4), older versions are known to have issues beyond 2 gigs under Windows (and I would shy away from the 4.1.x betas until after I had a good Knoppix DVD download, 3 gig it too much time and space to risk on beta software). And I would stick with the Official BitTorrent or at least do my homework before downloading and installing other BitTorrent knockoffs, some do deliver adware and worse. You can download the file to a NTFS or a FAT32 partition just fine. The only caution I have to pass along to Windows users is that networking may not let you transfer that 3 gig ISO file across a Windows network (at least it fails with a Win98 system on the network). There are ways around this, I split one ISO up using Winrar and recombined it on the other side afer a Windows network transfer of the parts, another time I just fired up a FTP client and server and transfered the ISO locally by FTP between systems. But the network issue is the only problem I had. Be sure you open the BT ports in your router (you would have to do that with BT under Knoppix too) and any windows firewall. And see the downloading faq for anything I may have forgotten.

[Jorge Martínez]

Thanks again, Harry.

I don't think I'll have any trouble downloading the last not beta BitTorrent for Windows, installing and running it as any other program. I have no local network, only two separate PCs. I'll try to find the FAQ you mention. I have Win-XP but FAT32 partitions.

But I'm a little in the dark regarding any adjustments in the routers and firewall. Are the routers a piece of equipment in the Internet Service Provider? If so, how do I reach them? The firewall is included in W-XP, I assume I can find how to temporarily disable it. Isn't it dangerous to run without firewall?

Regards.

[Harry Kuhman]

I'll try to find the FAQ you mention.
That (http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Downloading_FAQ), and the rest of the information that we keep in the wiki, can be found by following the Documentation link near the top of this page.



But I'm a little in the dark regarding any adjustments in the routers and firewall. Are the routers a piece of equipment in the Internet Service Provider? If so, how do I reach them? The firewall is included in W-XP, I assume I can find how to temporarily disable it. Isn't it dangerous to run without firewall?
If you have a high speed connection you really should use a router. Occasionally newer high speed modems have one built in, but often not or sometimes the ISP has disabled it. While the ISP certainly has other routers in their network, in this sense the router is a very inexpensive small dedicated box that sits between your computer(s) and the high speed modem, connecting to it by an ethernet connection. These are sold in stores as DSL/cable routers or SOHO routers (SOHO standing Small Office / Home Office or something similar). In addition to forming the backbone of a home network and letting you connect each computer to the high speed connection at the same time and share the connection, they provide an important hardware firewall that keeps attacks out of your system, particularly important to Windows users.

Yes, it is dangerous to run without a firewall, but I need to say several things about that. The Windows software firewall is awful, perhaps less than completely useless. Even though I have a herdware firewal I also use a software firewall, but I would never trust the one from Microsoft. If you act quickly you can still download a good free one from Kerio (http://www.kerio.com/kpf_download.html), but grab it quick because they have been bought out by McAfee (who, IMHO make awful software) and will be going away in a few days. But even with a software firewall, your system is not safe (and it is exposed to faster attacks on a high speed connection) because a lot of the software stack and the exploits that Microsoft flaws make available have to process data before it can even get to the software firewall. That's the simple reason why a hardware fire is needed even if you have a software firewall, it blocks the bad packets before they can get to your computer, a software firewall does not.

I didn't suggest turning off the firewall. Rather you should create rules that tell it that packets for the BitTorrent ports can safely be passed to the BitTorrent application and that packets from BitTorrent can safely be transmitted to the Internet. I can't tell you how to do this on the MS firewall that I refuse to use, but with Kerio it should be as simple as clicking the proper box in the warning window that Kerio pops up when it see traffic that is new to it and doesn't match any existing rule. You can also look at its existing rules which will give you a lot of insight on how to set up additional rules. Oh, there's a manual at the above Kerio link I gave you that you might want to grab too before it goes away.

[Jorge Martínez]

Thank you, Harry, for your comprehensive help.

I found the FAQ and will study it.

My recent cable connection includes a cable modem, a Motorola SurfBoard SB5100. It seems fairly recent, but has only one output for a net cable connector plus one USB output. I have not the manual to check if these are both or either/or, and most important, if the filtering functions are included. I'll have to find the manual in internet or check with the provider.

A Noganet Router with one input and four outputs can be bought here for about US$ 40. Again, no info about the filtering, but I assume it is included. On Monday I'll check with the supplier.

I downloaded the Kerio soft and manual. Thank you for your tip.

Now I'll have to work processing all this and checking at the PC, but I'm determined to download the DVD iso and burn it.

[Harry Kuhman]

My recent cable connection includes a cable modem, a Motorola SurfBoard SB5100. It seems fairly recent, but has only one output for a net cable connector plus one USB output. I have not the manual to check if these are both or either/or, and most important, if the filtering functions are included. I'll have to find the manual in internet or check with the provider.
I found a bit of information with a quick search. At first I thouht it did include a router, as Motorola said it suported up to 32 users, but a FAQ said you should expect to pay more for additional IP addresses if you need to connect more than one computer, so it is not doing NAT and not providing firewall suppot. They stated thay plan a later member of the family that will, but that does you no good. So adding a home router to that Ethernet port is the way to go (at least you have ethernet and not just USB).

Connecting both USB and ethernet to the Internet would require having the ISP supply multiple IP addresses, and would not be a good solution after you add a hardware firewall (router). I would plan on never using the USB side (USB does very poor at networking anyway, it's there for chumps).

Be sure that you are getting the right thing with Noganet. I had never heard of them, did a quick web search They seem to crank out tons of electronics related stuff, but on their products page (http://www.noganet.com/catalog.php), even though they mention routers at the bottom, there is no link for any router, only ethernet switches. A switch is not the same (it does not do NAT, DHCP, or provide firewall protection). SO if you go with them I would be very sure that what you are being sold is really going to do what you want. I would feel better if you could find a brand that is better kown for making this stuff. Names like Linksys, Netgear, Dlink, SMC, Hawking Technology or even Belkin. Top end Linksys could be more expensive but I would expect the other brands or even older, less feature rich Linksys routers to be available in that price range, or less, even allowing for export issues (after all, none of them are made in the US, we import them too).

[Jorge Martínez]

I found some information about a Noganet router at:

http://empremarc.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=827

However, it is not clear whether the firewall is there or not. The word "firewall" is not mentioned at all.

Certainly it would be better to have a router by a known maker such as the ones mentioned by Harry, but until tomorrow Monday I can do nothing further. These things are mostly made in China.

[Harry Kuhman]

I found some information about a Noganet router at:.....
Yup, that's a router. It does NAT, which will keep packets from reaching a computer that is not expecting them, thus act as a firewall. It will let you share the connection amoung several computers. And DHCP should hand out configuration information to your Knoppix box when booted, requiring no set up on your point. This says it does PPPoE (apparently not PPPoA needed in some countries). It may or may not do SPI (Stateful Packet Inspection) which examines each packet to try to prevent other exploits. Since it's not on the manufacturers site I still can't find a manual for it or learn more than is on the link you found.

Personally I would rather have a different router, this one just looks to me like one that is likely to be offered wholesale dirt cheap and is sold by small local merchants because they can put a very high mark up on it. It may be an OK router for what it does, it may leave you disapointed. It certainly would be better than no router at all. But $40 for this no-name thing that doesn't even have wireless capability is extremely out of the range of other prices I've seen lately. I could buy many routers here with more features and still spend less even if I paid the list price and didn't send in the rebate, so lack of rebates is not the only issue.

[Jorge Martínez]

What is wireless capability?

I've seen some offered here (in the local branch of e-bay) at some 60 to 80 US$, that looks awfully expensive to me.

On monday I'll check with several suppliers.

[Harry Kuhman]

What is wireless capability?

I've seen some offered here (in the local branch of e-bay) at some 60 to 80 US$, that looks awfully expensive to me.

On monday I'll check with several suppliers.
It looks awfully expensive to me too. Wireless capability is the ability to connect to wireless networking cards as well as normal wired ethernet NICs. Some newer notebooks even have wireless capability built in. See the Wireless Networking (http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Wireless_Networking) FAQ for details. It's not always well supported in Knoppix and not important to have and certainly not something that you should be paying that much for (more since it would require a wireless card too). I hate to keep harping on the differences in prices, but wireless is getting so common that it's often included in the very inexpensive routers I've been talking about getting here for next to nothing. I'm even seeing 802.11g routers (the faster standard) as well as older 802.11b routers for a fraction of the prices that you are seeing for the wired router that I had never heard of. I hope that you can find better with a bit of shopping tomorrow. Read up as much as you can so you have a good idea of issues like this so that you'll know what you are looking at. Good luck.

[Jorge Martínez]

Thank you. So far I couldn't find any of the real good brands. But I got what seems to be a good prospect, namely Encore model ENRTR-104.

The specs sound OK to me. A firewall is included. You may find more info at:

http://www.encore-usa.com/product.php?id=112&lang=

My Ethernet cards are Encore and are working properly. Since Encore is geared to sell in the US their level of quality perhaps is higher than the one the importers in this country usually choose mainly because of the lowest price provided they work somehow.

At US$ 45 this Encore router is not really a bargain, but it looks as a reasonable alternative for me. Anyhow, I will keep looking further for a time before deciding anything. I may still find something better.

[Harry Kuhman]

At US$ 45 this Encore router is not really a bargain, but it looks as a reasonable alternative for me.
Jorge, I agree. This looks like a reasonable alternative to the other one and does seem to be a nicer looking unit. You are correct, the price for either of these wired connection devices is higher than I would have expected and I'm curious why I have seen neither of these brands and why you see none of the brands we see here.

I'm also wondering what type of power outlet you use in Argentina. In the U.S. we have 110 to 117 volt AC 60 cycle/second in the "mains". The contacts are two flat blades about 6mm wide and about 15mm apart, with the option of polarizing the plug by making one of the blades wider to avoid interchanging hot and nutral lines. There is a third optional round ground pin between and below the two power blades. While most of our computer power supplies can be switched to support a higher voltage, these small routers tend to use a simple external transformer "power cube" that only works at the voltage it is designed for and would be damaged if plugged into higher voltage sources. This may make it unreasonable for you to obtain such a device directly fron the U.S. Obviously the high cost of private shipping of only one unit would be another factor that would keep you from just ordering a router from a U.S. supplier.

[Jorge Martínez]

Harry Kuhman wrote:

I'm also wondering what type of power outlet you use in Argentina.


We use 220 V 50 Hz in the mains. The plugs used to be fitted with 2 cylindrical prongs about 4 mm in diameter and placed 19 mm apart, no polarization and no ground, but now they are being replaced by a type with 2 flat blades placed at 45º from the center line plus one longer flat blade in the center line for the ground connection. These 3 blades are placed in a triangular arrangement. We are also familiar with the US type plug. We have no trouble with any of them as there are readily available converters or adapters from one to the other.

Any slightly tecno minded household is certain to have 220/110 autotransformers to supply American type devices. These transfs. even have a receptacle for the American plug. Probably the 60 hz transformer in the device will dissipate more heat when used in 50 Hz, but usually they don't burn out.

To bring something from the US is not a sure thing. Sometimes the postman delivers it directly to your door. Other times, or for bigger stuff, it may have to go through Customs. This is cumbersome and may be expensive. So if you find it here, even at a slightly higer price, rather buy it. By the way, my usual supplier perhaps can get me my Encore router at only US$ 40.