USB cable modem

[Phar_Ted]

Hi, A frustrated noob here.
After days of figuring out how to download an ISO file the deed is finally done (and I have less hair too) I have the latest Knoppix.

Why do I have to type in 'Knoppix nousb' to finish the boot instead of simply 'enter'?

And more importantly,....
And another thing that is REALLY starting to cheese me off is that I am reading stuff that a cable modem (mine is a terayon tj615) with a USB jack cannot be used for knoppix.

Well, WHY NOT?!?! :x
Can't be done?
So I've frigged around for hours and hours only to find I can't connect without buying more shit to replace the shit I already have?!?! Like now I got to buy a router, not even sure what a router is/does.
I'm connected to Billy boys OS no prob, you'd think I would be automatically connected, that it would simply import the settings from XP.
But no!
The only way linux is going to really catch on, is only if it could be more like windows, sad but true.
Automation should be built right in, setting things up in Windows is easy, and it works (usually)
I want loin linux, but I can't get past the starting gate.

Can I not use my USB cable modem, not at all :|

Please explain this to me as simple as possible, as I am very confused here.

And, oh yeah, thanx!

[Harry Kuhman]

Well, WHY NOT?!?!
Well, just my own opnion here, but because USB was designed by Microsoft and Intel as a replacement for serial and parallel aevices and as a way to lock hardware into Microsoft. Other technology could have certainly been used. Ethernet was well established at the time, for example. So was firewire. But a big part of the USB approach was that OS specific drivers would have to be written and would only support Windows systems (in some cases only some windows systems, there are plenty of older USB scanners that have drivers that work in Win98 but don't support XP and newer scanners that support XP but there are no drivers for Win98). It's simply not a user friendly system, it's one that is intended to favor the hardware vendors and Microsoft and lock the users into what Microsoft wants.

On top of that, USB is just awful for networking. If you look at the underlying operation of UBS you'll see that it is an extremely bad choice for building anything as complex as networking on.

So there are some people who ignorantly let themselves be sold USB networking equipment and then after they have it express surprise, shock and indignation, and even type in all caps when asking why Linux may not support every stupid and lame USB networking device out there, even though those devices all need special drivers unique to the device and the manufacturers not only don't provide Linux drivers but usually also refuse to release the heardware spefications that would allow a third party programmer to write the Linux drivers.

[Phar_Ted]

There's gotta be a way, I mean USB is OS specific? That's outragious!
Isn't that against the law?

The big trend is moving stuff to USB connectors, mice, joysticks, you name it.
Just another nail in the coffin for linux, another reason it's still not catching on, 'too much this', 'too much, not that, but this'

Can't linux get a fix for this?
A lot of people use USB and if they can't get on the net through linux because of this, well, good ole sneering Billy says welcome back, tough titties over there ain't it MUAHAHAHAAAA! :twisted:

My USB ports are built right into my MOBO.

Does a router connect to the back of my modem and plugs into where? Or is a router a modem, I don't know.
Other than USB ports I have a 1394 port and a LAN jack. If that helps.

More opinions needed.

[Harry Kuhman]

There's gotta be a way, I mean USB is OS specific? That's outragious!
Isn't that against the law?
What law would that be against? Give us specifics.

There is lots of stuff that is OS specific. Look at all of the wireless networking cards that are out there. Many don't release drivers for Linux and the manufacturers (both at the card and chip level) flatly refuse to release hardware information so that third party programmers could write Linux drivers for them. USB itself isn't hardware specific (both Linux and Apple support USB to some degree), but since it's up to each device to support USB in it's own way then there are many devices out there with only Microsoft drivers, as I have already said.

Networking, on the other hand, has been around a lot longer than USB. And Linux supported Eithernet long before the first USB modems. So if you choose to use a very poorly designed system intended to replace serial ports for your networking hardware rather than a ethernet based system, don't blame others when this turns out to be a very bad choice.

And let us not forget that Microsoft makes the laws and chooses which they will follow and which they will not. If they do get caught and convicted of breaking the law they just jerk the courts around until a Microsoft friendly adnimistration comes into power and drops everything. By the way, did you know that Harriet Myres, Bushes amazingly unqualified choice for Supreme Court Justice, was a Microsoft attorney?


My USB ports are built right into my MOBO.

Other than USB ports I have a 1394 port and a LAN jack. If that helps.

So what's your point? You have USB ports on your motherbaord, so the people who freely give their time to write code for Linux should be force to support all bad networking devices that might use USB because of that? And you even point out that you have a LAN jack, which Linux may very well support (almost all 10.100 jacks are currently supported, some 10/100/1000 ones are also supported and some of these are still in development).


Can't linux get a fix for this?
It's not a Linux problem, it's a people are too dumb to get the right stuff problem. Linux supports networking great; better than Microsoft by many opnions. There is no reason that Linux should drag itself down to bad choices and poor quality equipment that vendors elect to keep secret just because of the Microsoft monopoly. If you choose to go back to Bill because of this, then you get exactly what you deserve. If you choose to fix the problem, then welcome.


The big trend is moving stuff to USB connectors, mice, joysticks, you name it.
That's right, and people will keep getting screwed by it. Not by mice and keyboards so much (except where they might include special buttons or features that need a special driver), but certainly with other devices that need a special driver and there is only a driver for Windows. If you buy this suff and then discover later that your are screwed, then complain to the manufacturers, we don't want to hear about it (we already know about it).


Does a router connect to the back of my modem and plugs into where? Or is a router a modem, I don't know.
You could do yourself a big favor by doing a little searching on Google before asking basic questions. A router generally attaches to a high speed modem by an ethernet connection. Users connect to the router by ethernet (or wirelessly, but see my above warning that many wirelsss cards do not support Linux). The modem connects to the high speed servive provider, usually DSL or cable. When using DSL the router takes care of all PPPoE issues, log in and password, and such. The users need no PPPoE software or passwords or the rest, the network just works as far as they are concerned. Some high speed modems do now contain routers in them and offer more than one ethernet connection out. And there is at least one Dlink brand device being sold as a router that includes a DSL modem inside it. But most modems and routers are still seperate devices and it should be easy to look at the spec sheets or the packages and tell what the device actually is.

[Phar_Ted]

All quotes by Harry:

What law would that be against? Give us specifics.
Anti-trust?

So what's your point? You have USB ports on your motherbaord, so the people who freely give their time to write code for Linux should be force to support all bad networking devices that might use USB because of that?
Yes, why not? Because I and 8 million+ other folks have MOBO's like that too, for Linux NOT to support this SO BAD configuration, well they are missing out on the boat ride. I would imagine some smart geek is working on that (my) problem right now, well, because he/she is smart and realises a lot of linux ignorant people do use USB ports because they never knew it would be linux incompatable.

And you even point out that you have a LAN jack, which Linux may very well support (almost all 10.100 jacks are currently supported, some 10/100/1000 ones are also supported and some of these are still in development).

So, do I simply unplug my USB cord from the back of my modem and simply replace it with a LAN compatable cord and stick it in my 10/100 LAN port?
Do I need a modem->router->LAN setup?

It's not a Linux problem, it's a people are too dumb to get the right stuff problem.
Hey, chill out, people often find out things when it's too late, it's not dumb, it's not knowing, big diff!

If you choose to fix the problem, then welcome.
Well, I'm here, ain't I?

[Harry Kuhman]

All quotes by Harry:

What law would that be against? Give us specifics.
Anti-trust?
Anit-trust is hardly specific. But Microsoft is above anti-trust laws, they have already been convicted of violating them and just waited out a change in administration, then got no punishment. And they didn't make your modem. Surely a minor equipment maker isn't forced by law to support all operating systems, any more that you or I would be if we made some hardware and elected to suport only Linux but not Microsoft. Of course, it would be highly illegal if Microsoft were using their monopoly position to force manufacturers to support them and not support Linux, but although that is very likely happening this administration's default on the last court victory against Microsoft makes it very unlikely that they will ever be charged with anything over it.


Yes, why not? Because I and 8 million+ other folks have MOBO's like that too, for Linux NOT to support this SO BAD configuration, well they are missing out on the boat ride.
You're really confusing your technologies here. Linux very likely does support your motherboard USB ports. That is completely different that it being able to support every USB GPS device, every scanner, every 3d graphic pen, every keyboard with magic opto-electonic keys that change to match the application, every USB enabled toaster/crock pot, and certainly every different and unique device that thinks it's a good idea to try to network over something as crude as USB.

No one is saying that your USB mobo ports are not Linux compatable. But by the very design of USB that does not make everything made for USB work under Linux.


So, do I simply unplug my USB cord from the back of my modem and simply replace it with a LAN compatable cord and stick it in my 10/100 LAN port?
No, of course not. If you have a USB only modem it just isn't going to connect without a USB connection. If there are no Linux drivers for it (and I don't know or really care if there are or not), then it can only be used with whatever Microsoft OS's that have drivers. This isn't a Linux issue; it will not work with Win95, for example, and it likely will not work for Apple users either unless that manufacturer provides Apple specific drivers.

OF course, if your modem has a USB connector on it and also one or more RJ-45 connectors (what you call LAN connectors), then you should be able to connect your LAN port to the modem with a CAT-5 cable. Much better would be to add a router in the process (Computer -> router -> Modem ethernet connection), which would let the router provide a hardware firewall, take care of any login needed, and support multiple computers using the Internet connection at the same time.


As to my chilling out, you're right, a lot of people don't know and don't think to look before getting stuck with a poor product by a seller who pushes Microsoft. I'm not going to get into a debate about if that's dumb or not. But when those people learn they they have been suckered into something that the vendor only supports Microsoft for, and then angrily seem to blame Linux for it, perhaps they should not be so fast to find fault with Linux and consider where the problem is really created.

[Phar_Ted]

Yes your right.

Here is a pic I found of the backside of my modem:
http://www.neotechcc.org/modemscd/terayon/rear-tj-615.gif
as you can see, I do have an ethernet port, as a matter of fact I used ethernet at first on my old comp. then took it out thinking USB was better :roll:

So, in your opinion, you seem knowledgable enough, and sometimes a search can lead to more searching, but perhaps you can give me your answer before I search more.
Do I run the (phone cable?) perhaps I still have my ethernet wire somewhare? Ok, do I run that phone type cord direct to my LAN port on the back of my comp, or do I need to buy an ethernet card?
Modem ethernet out port->phone type cord->LAN port

Just wondering as the LAN port is a phone jack and so is the ethernet jack. (so I put 2+2 together and came up with....5?)

[Harry Kuhman]

A phone cable is not an ethernet cable. How on while I do some searching and learn about your modem (or search while I do it). If you have tho old ethernet cable, that should work fine. I still highly recommend adding a router, particuarly if you run with Windows (without one you will likely be infected in just minutes).

[Phar_Ted]

What I now understand about a router makes me want to be a proud owner of one, if you could recommend one or some brands, that would be cool!
seems my firewall works harder than it should, I get attacks on my privacy all the time :x
does a good job for a free one (sygate personal firewall)

OK, to clarify: ethernet jack, LAN jack, same thing?

Thanks Harry, I feel closer now.

Harry said:

I still highly recommend adding a router, particuarly if you run with Windows
Yes, never run with windows, good chance of breakage!

[Harry Kuhman]

Terayon doesn't seem to post the manual for the 615 on their website. Form what little I can see you should be able to connect your computer to the RJ-45 connection on the modem and your original ethernet cable and boot Knoppix and it should get it's setup information from the cable company and work. You will not be behind a hardware firewall and you will not be able to run more than one computer at a time. With a simple router (now often less that $10 US after rebate) you will be protected by a hardware firewall, will be able to run multiple computers and network between them, and you will need no damn USB drivers. And you will find that your internet connectionis faster than with USB. I would also suggest that after installing a router that you extensively search your Windows system for viruses, trojans and root kits, as an exposed Windows system is extremely likely to have picked up some.

The 615 does not seem to contain it's own inernal router, in that sense it's only a cable modem.

A phone line is typically a 4 wire connection with a RJ-11 4 pin jack on it (only 2 of the wires are usually used by a telephone). A twisted pair ethernet cable (and there are other types of therenet) is terminated in a RJ-45 connection. It looks like a telephone jack, but has 8 wires and pins (4 are typically used for ethernet). CAT-5 ethernet is more tightly twiseted that telephone line and better shielded. These wires can not be interchanged.

[Harry Kuhman]

What I now understand about a router makes me want to be a proud owner of one, if you could recommend one or some brands, that would be cool!
I'll be gald to give you information and advice on routers. I've used and own several.

I saw some really nice features that I liked a lot in Dlink routers, and the last one that I bought was D-link. But I'm very disapointed in the model that I bought. (It was the 514 and D-link has since discontinued it, although there may still be some retailers trying to unload them). Some of the features I bought it for never worked right (although you couldn't tell this from the manual before buyng it). So I'm somewhat soured on D-link, although I realize that other models might be good choices for some users.

The different brands of routers have a lot of different features, but all basicall do the same thing. Many of these features are things that are very handy for some users and completely useless for others, so doing some research and deciding what you want may be very handy here. For example, some but not all manufacturers support a feature that would let you enable and disable Internet access by time of day and even day of week. For parents with kids with their own computer this may be a very handy way to limit Internet access, other may not have any use for this. Some router makers (such as D-link) allow you to lock a local computer to a particular IP address (but still use DHCP to assign the address), but many makers (such as SMC and Netgear) may make it harder to lock an IP address to a local computer. This matters to me because I occasionally want to run a server and need to know what IP address a system will come up on when I reboot it, but it may not matter at all to others).

One major difference is that there are wired routers and wireless routers. In general the wireless routers still have 4 wired ports to them, so if they were the same price wireless would almost always be a better choice. And the routers have come down so much in price that they frequently are the same price, or wireless is even less!

There are many different types of wireless (wifi) systems. 802.11b is the base standard for home use. It's rated at 11mb/s. Just about all faster equipment intended for home use will downgrade to it. It is by far the lowest price. 802.11g is fatster (rated at 54mb/s). It is usually more expensive but I have on occasion seen 802.11g routers under $10 after rebate in the U.S. I'm not going to try to translate that into hoser money, but you guys usually can get in on the same rebates we can (maybe not always though, eh?) There are newer and faster systems too, although the standards for them have not been finalized and so equipment for them may only work for one manufacturer. Unless you have an application where you really can justify high speed wireless I would suggest sticking with low cost units that have standards, And remember that if you are using the network connection primarily for connecting to the Internet then your ISP will be the bottleneck, not the wireless speed. Also, be warned that while there is some wireless support in Linux for some wireless cards, not all cards are or can be supported. And more 802.11b cards are supported than faster cards. Still, even if you don't plan on using wireless at all, it's nice to have if a friend with a notebook with wireless capability visits, particularly if you didn't pay anything extra for it.

My real advice would be to shop around a little on your own and post back what you are looking at. Manuals for most routers are available on their manufacturers websites and are worth reading before buying, particularly if you are shopping for features. Or if you find a wirelss router at $2.99 after rebate (as I have seen recently), snatch it up with the full understanding that you might buy something else later but this first router will make a great learning tool, and don't hesitate to replace it if you find something else you like more that is reasonably priced.


OK, to clarify: ethernet jack, LAN jack, same thing?
Ethernet has used many different connections over the years, as well as different types of wires. I still have some ethernet cards around with thicknet and thinnet (coax) connectors on them, although it's be about 5 years since I last connected systems up with coax (I'm sure there is still some out there in operation though). The current standard is a 10/100 twisted pair system using RJ-45 connectors and CAT-5 or better wire, although there are 10/100/1000 systems widely available and even faster ethernet systems over optical cable. But the thing on the back of your motherboard that you call a LAN jack is certainly a RJ-45 ethernet connection. You'll need to check the MB documentation to see if it supports 10/100 or 10/100/1000. If it's 10/100 then Knoppix very likely will support the chip set used, if 10/100/1000 then maybe, maybe not, the easy way to find out is to try.

[Phar_Ted]

I just did some research on my rj 45 LAN jack, and yes I've seen for myself the info on this, it is for ethernet. I'm mucho clearo now!
I'm going to have to buy a cable, a twisted one like you said is the kind to get. And of course a router, I'll read the package for linux compatability (or are all routers compatable?)

And also I would have to agree that USB is slower for the net, for high speed cable I get bogged down quite a bit, and my comp is only a few months old and is fairly powerful. I can't wait to see if there is a difference, perhaps that's the answer to that problem.

[Harry Kuhman]

I just did some research on my rj 45 LAN jack, and yes I've seen for myself the info on this, it is for ethernet. I'm mucho clearo now!
I'm going to have to buy a cable, a twisted one like you said is the kind to get. And of course a router, I'll read the package for linux compatability (or are all routers compatable?)

And also I would have to agree that USB is slower for the net, for high speed cable I get bogged down quite a bit, and my comp is only a few months old and is fairly powerful. I can't wait to see if there is a difference, perhaps that's the answer to that problem.

You'll want a CAT-5 (or CAT-5e) cable. Prices can vary greatly; some dealers here in the U.S. will try to charge $29.99 for a modest length one, while some small shops will sell you one for $2.99 to $4.99 and I've found them for 99 cents mail order. I'm not clear on why you need to buy one though, you said you had your computer connected by Ethernet before so in theory you should have the cable. Don't look for the word twisted, look for Cat-5. Or just go to a small computer store that you trust will not cheat you and tell the salesguy what you need. Radio Shack and Best Buy sales people will not have a clue and will try hard ti get you to buy that $29.99 cable. Cables are usually available in a variety of lengths, 1 foot, 6 feet, 10 to 15 feet, 25 feet and 50 feet being common sizes, so do know the length you want. I generally use a short cable between the router and modem and locate the router near the modem, but some users may have different needs.


Most routers will come with a short ethernet capbe (1 to 6 feet in length), so you may not need to buy another one if adding a router. (My first Linksys didn't include a cable but all other since that have, and Linksys may even include a cable now). In fact, with the crazy high prices some stores want for a ethernet cable (or even a USB cable for a printer), it may actually be cheaper to buy a router with a cable and then throw away the router than to just buy the cable! You can, of course, buy the parts and make your own, but a good pair of crimpers is expensixe and not usually worth doing this unless you plan on making a number of cables.


Routers will not mention Linux capability on the package. In general all of these devices will work with Windows, Apple, Linux, or any other ethernet based system. I had one old Belkin router that did not do DHCP properly with Knoppix. The router could be made to work, but you had to use netcardconfig to set up the ethernet settings after DHCP failed. The Belkin support people had heavy Indian accents and no clue, although they could talk you through manually setting up the router if you could translate their Windows oriented instructions into Linux settiings.. I've used routers from SMC, Netgear, Linksys, D-link, and NexLan with no problems, and the Belkin that I had problems with is no longer made. While there is always a chance that you might run into Linux problems (the manufacturers generally only test their products with Windows), my advice is to expect that you will not. You are much more likely to have other hardware or firmware issues with a router than Linux compatabilty issues.

[Harry Kuhman]

And also I would have to agree that USB is slower for the net, for high speed cable I get bogged down quite a bit, and my comp is only a few months old and is fairly powerful. I can't wait to see if there is a difference, perhaps that's the answer to that problem.
Again, if you are talking about this under windows (since you apparently haven't been running this way under Linux), it is much more likely that the biggest cause of these problems is spyware, adware, spamware and other things that have infected your Windows system. The USB connection will slow you down, but is small potatoes conpaired to what someone can do infecting your system. A software firewall is a start (I always use one under Windows), but it can't protect you against all Windows threats.

[Phar_Ted]

Yeah, it bugs me that when I turn on and boot up my comp I see smilies makin' ugly faces at me, all the time :x
And lately my comp fails to boot up 2/10 X.

And the thing is is that I keep as best I can to eliminate spyware and such, but they are very persistant.

I just put IE behind my firewall again, so I'll see if slows down (the ads), Firefox is much better, my first step to open license. Seems when I give IE permission to run I get swamped with ads and spyware.

What a pest!

Thanks a lot for your help, you've assisted me very well, and I am much clearer now, my last post was submitted at the same time as yours so, some of my Q's were already answered in your last post.

[Phar_Ted]

Cat-5 cable, unless router comes with one, OK I'll look for that stuff then.

About my cable, are you going to come over here and help me find it?

Bring your shovel, it's buried somewhere :D

[Harry Kuhman]

And the thing is is that I keep as best I can to eliminate spyware and such, but they are very persistant.

I just put IE behind my firewall again, so I'll see if slows down (the ads), Firefox is much better, my first step to open license. Seems when I give IE permission to run I get swamped with ads and spyware.
LOL!!! :D If you use IE or Outlook you are just begging for problems. Not that not using them will save you from all issues, but these are well known weak points. And although you think things are behind your software filewall, the truth is that much of the buggy winsows TCP/IP stack remains exposed and must process incoming packets before they ever get to your software filrewall. With a router you have a NAT firewall system (maybe more, some routers also do nice things like stateful packet inspection). The router has to decide which of the computers on the Local Network to send packets to. If you are visiting a website, for example, it knows which computer sent the request so it know where to forward the incoming packets (this should make it clear that the router can't protect you if you visit websites owned or attacked by evil hackers). But if a hacker just is searching the Internet for vulnerable systems (which happens all of the time), the router will have no reason to forward unexpected packets to any local system and, unless you tell it otherwise, will discard them. The packets can't infect your computer if they don't reach it.

[Phar_Ted]

Been using Firefox for somewhat over a year now, pretty much ad free at first and I like ad block but new ads are being made with different url's all the time.
What I mean is advertisers are catching on to people switching to FF so they make ads to hit FF now more often.
However considering it still runs on windows I'm not surprised, got to hand it to the Moz people, way, way better than IE, even on Billy's turf.

[Phar_Ted]

Well, I switched my USB to Ethernet LAN line, and I must say it is an incredible difference!
Much faster page load times!
Found my old Cat-5 cable under the bed.

And the coolest thing yet, I am making this post through Knoppix, yes I am.

I'm such a rebel!

Next project, get it on HD.

[robibob]

Hi Phar Ted

I am not sure if this helps you, but I am running an USB cable modem (Ambit 350000) with CD-Knoppix-4.0.2.
Each time I boot up I have to type in the Root Shell

modprobe usbnet
netcardconfig
Then choose "Yes"

After that it's running just great.

Actually I do not know why I have to type this each boot up.....

..so have fun.

[Phar_Ted]

I'll never go back to USB for my modem, no way, if you have the ports for ethernet, switch, quite a difference in page load times!
Harry was right.

[divali]

Wow, that was great! :D