PDA

View Full Version : Will "Knoppix" ever be a true HDD install distro?



27floyd
12-14-2005, 03:27 PM
I was just wondering if any of the insiders know of any plans for knoppix to be a "real" HDD install distro.
I really like knoppix, Im currently using Ubuntu but like to see whats out there..
I was going to install Knoppix and found out about the whole issue with HDD installs. I then tried debian and that lasted a day..

I

sakiZ
12-14-2005, 03:51 PM
No need for a HDD Knoppix. Knoppix first cousin Kanotix is FOR HDD installs.

Go with that.

sakiZ

Harry Kuhman
12-14-2005, 05:39 PM
The creator of Knoppix, Klaus, has clearly stated that his primary goal is to focus on things that make Knoppix a great Live CD and not to try to make it a cleanly installable disc. What else can be said?

27floyd
12-15-2005, 03:40 AM
So this Kanotix is a good distro then..?
I will DL it and give it a try...

Thanx

tdjokic
12-15-2005, 06:09 AM
"Mini-Review: Kanotix 2005-02" http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20050418#review

"... it really sparkles when you install it to your hard drive. Install, reboot, and you'll have a very up-to-date Debian, with a number of unique features you won't easily find elsewhere. The list of benefits Kanotix offers starts with amazing hardware detection, followed by a well thought-out selection of apps, plus a number of unique script files to polish the user experience."

http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/3691
Kanotix 2005-04-RC17

"Kanotix 2005-04-RC17 was released a few days ago and tuxmachines is running really behind in their reviews. However, this was one I wanted to make sure I completed. I've reviewed several distros that are based on Kanotix and the time was right to finally review the source. However, if I really want to get down to where the rubber meets the road, I'm going to have to review Knoppix. Saving that for another time, today we look at Kanotix 2005-04-RC17."

irlandes
12-15-2005, 05:21 PM
You guys may be right, but Knopper has said the next version will have an improved installer. Why would an installer be included, and why would a better installer be planned by a man who has no intention of anyone ever installling Knoppix? This is not a flame, I want an answer, please. On the surface, it seems you guys made a personal decision that it is better not to install, this sort of decision is usually made by those who have had problems with it, and are operating on that premise. See discussion on main forum that maybe this Install forum should be deleted.

The real reason to try Kanotix is only partially that it is better to install. The real reason not to put any time into Knoppix is because you will not get any real help on the Knoppix.net but you will get help on Kanotix forum, in fact Kano himself answers many posts when he has time.

In my opinion, if Knoppix cannot be installed after being tried, than Knoppix should be cancelled. It doesn't do anything other live cd's don't do as well, and they can be installed. In any case, people should be discouraged from downloading it, when they can get other live distros which one can get help to install.

UnderScore
12-15-2005, 05:56 PM
On the surface, it seems you guys made a personal decision that it is better not to install, this sort of decision is usually made by those who have had problems with it, and are operating on that premise. See discussion on main forum that maybe this Install forum should be deleted. See http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Category:Hard_drive_Installation where we have documented the install process & the problems that are likely to occur. I notice that you are new to the forums and Welcome! But you should know that this topic of "The HD install is not bad. Why do you say it is bad?" comes up every month. I along with other forums regulars have helped & answered many folks who run into HD install bugs & problems. I personally have written FAQs & HowTo guides on the HD install. We have rehashed this before.

Purely my own personal choice: I will no longer help those who have done a HD install. I have spent easily more than 80 hours of time trying to help people with HD installs and that is enough from me. I will let the advocates who claim it is not difficult to help those in need of assistance. See "Why not Knoppix on the HD?" (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20369). Unless all the kinks & root-cause problems of the HD install is worked out then I will continue to not recommend it and will continue to not help those who choose to walk down that broken path.

As for the improved installer: Every new version of Knoppix claims to have an improved installer. I will believe that it is bug free when I test it for myself, until then it is just unfulfiled promises.

Harry Kuhman
12-15-2005, 05:56 PM
In my opinion, if Knoppix cannot be installed after being tried, than Knoppix should be cancelled.
That opnion shows great bias and great ignorance. Knoppix has been and remains a leader in Live Linux CD's To suggest that there are others ignores that many if not most of them are based on Knoppix. I personally want nothing more from Knoppix than to be a great live CD. If I want an installed Linux distro I'll install Debian or some other distro intended for hard disk install, and then install exactly what packages I want and omit those that I know I don't want (in my case, for example, the child targeted games and teaching software would be the first to leave out, although they clearly belong on a live CD with a mix of software).

If anything, it would be interesting to see some Live CD with great hardware detection be able to write some sort of configuration file that could later be used by an installer to install a real hard drive distro. But there is no reason to cripple a hard drive install with any problems of coming from a Live CD and certainly no reason to cripple a Live CD because some people are going to want to make it something that it is not.

I can't think of a single good reason why a Live CD should be installed to hard disk. When Knoppix first came out, trying to install it was frequently excused by claims that Debian was too technical to install. I consider these claims invalid, but they did have a grain of truth to them. Since then the Debian install has become much cleaner. The reason for installing Knoppix has largely gone away, but the numbers wanting to do it have grown. Perhaps it's because Knoppix is the first, maybe only, Linux they have seen and they are unwilling to learn anything else. Most have not tried to install Debian and are unwilling to try, but instead want to keep complaining about Knoppix install problems. Now I see the claim made that if Knoppix isn't mangled to make it "installable" then it should be cancelled.

Most people who advocate installing Knoppix have no clue about much of Linux. They seem to have an imaginary idea of what Linux is and think that by installing a Live CD they can avoid learning anything and that somehow this would be a good thing. That's bad enough, but now when you seem to be realizing that just maybe the world isn't quite the way you would like it, you now want to say "well, if I can't install Knoppix to a hard disk and have it do exactly what I wish, then no one should have it"???? I don't think that's a healthy approach.

tdjokic
12-15-2005, 10:34 PM
As for the (improved) installer: many other distribution use Knoppix installer for hdd installation, nothing wrong with that.

It doesn't do anything other live cd's don't do as well This is true - many other Live CD's do many things thanks to the inventions Knoppix made once and now you don't know who learnd from whom!