Qtparted problem

[spliknik]

After reading an article in PC Mag about Knoppix I thought I'd take the plunge. I'm running the latest CD Live version of Knoppix. I am a total linux novice, but am reasoably experienced with PC's. I'd like to use qtparted v 0.4.4 to partitition my winXP ntfs primary partition, and am assuming that qtparted can do this. I get the root and launch qtparted:
su
qtparted&
It picks up my hard disk and gives me my primary partition info which all looks fine. My Primary partition is about 80G, I want to resize it to say 50. Change the size withg the slider and OK, no repsonse for about 30 seconds and I get a message saying "The NTFS volume has at least one bad sector". I am then not able to commit the changes.

I've run Gibson's SPinRite and my hard disk is clean. Am I missing something obvious?
tx splik

[Harry Kuhman]

Am I missing something obvious?
Never ever touch a NTFS partition with a Linux tool. You will be punished.

There are some commercial products like Partition Magic that are able to reduce the size of a NTFS partition and make space for a Linux partition. But Partition Magic warns you to have everything backed up before you try because even it might destroy your partition. Given that warning, I would suggest saving the money that Partition Magic would cost, just make that backup, reinstall Xp with a smaller NTFS partition and reload the stuff that you want from your backup, Then install Linux in the remaining space, And I did say install Linux, not install Knoppix. I urge you to install a distro intended for hard disk such as Debian, and not Knoppix.

[spliknik]

Thanks heaps Harry, we newbies sometimes need stern warnings!! :)

[Irgu]

I get a message saying "The NTFS volume has at least one bad sector".
Am I missing something obvious?

Yes, the NTFS Resizing FAQ: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html#badsectors

QUESTION: What can I do if I get "Your disk has bad sectors (manufacturing faults or dying disk)" message?

ANSWER: Ntfsresize supports physically damaged disks since version 1.11.0. To do so, you must use the --bad-sectors option. You can find more details and suggestions at this option in the ntfsresize manual.

Please also note, that physical disk damages can't be repaired. The most what softwares are able to do is detect and not to use the entirely dead disk areas.

In short, you have a crappy, dying disk and QTParted won't touch it unless you explicitely specify the --bad-sectors option for ntfsresize which is used by it (it's configurable somewhere or just use ntfsresize from the command line).

[Irgu]

Never ever touch a NTFS partition with a Linux tool. You will be punished.

Dear moderator, this is pure FUD. The Linux-NTFS tools are used very extensively in many places and softwares without any reliability problem for several years now. See e.g. http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html#reliable and http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html#write

The only problem is actually the above style disinformation people spread around for whatever reason but they are never able to back up their claims with real world facts or examples.

[Harry Kuhman]

Dear moderator, this is pure FUD. The Linux-NTFS tools are used very extensively in many places and softwares without any reliability problem for several years now. See e.g. http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html#reliable and http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html#write

The only problem is actually the above style disinformation people spread around for whatever reason but they are never able to back up their claims with real world facts or examples.
This FUD is what I've learned by watching these forums for over 3 years. I've seen the pendulum swing from excitement that Captive was available to lots of shock when NTFS partitions were destroyed to Captive being dropped from Knoppix entirely. I see over and over people who think that they have a NTFS approach and then find that it does not really work. I see way too many reports of partition problems (particularly when using qtparted) if a NTFS partition is involved.

I have come to personally believe that Microsoft is deliberately taking steps to keep Linux from safely writing to NTFS. And since they can continue to modify XP with "security updates" I expect that any safe form of writing to NTFS will be short lived and that XP will be updated to destroy the partition when this is detected (of course, this is just a theory, and I'm sure many believe that the good people at Microsoft would never stoop to dirty tricks to fight the OS that they have declared their hate for).

This was not a pronouncement of a moderator, it was just offered as a fellow user (who also happens to have been drafted to be a moderator) sharing accumulated experience and opnions. It is certainly not the official position of this site (I don't think there is one.) You are free and welcome to post your own information. But I have seen too many problems posted here over the years dealing with NTFS to disreguard all that information based on your post. I will look at the link you give, but there are other ways to work around the NTFS issues and I don't see myself allowing Linux to ever write to a NTFS partition. Reading is safe, but any form of writing seems to cause problems.

[Irgu]

This FUD is what I've learned by watching these forums for over 3 years. I've seen the pendulum swing from excitement that Captive was available to lots of shock when NTFS partitions were destroyed to Captive being dropped from Knoppix entirely.
Where did I mention Captive? Captive was always broken. Please read what I wrote and also the links. I seriously mean it because you obviously confuses completely different softwares. They explain what you don't get and keep ignoring. The Linux-NTFS project I was refering to is NOT the Captive driver!


I see over and over people who think that they have a NTFS approach and then find that it does not really work. I see way too many reports of partition problems (particularly when using qtparted) if a NTFS partition is involved.
Problems like refusing to resize when the disk has hardware faults (like this case) and when NTFS is inconsistent? How these could be reliability problems when the tool refuse to make any modification and suggest user how to fix them?

Or when the kernel corrupted the geometry values in the partition table independently of the the filesystem? http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html#troubleshoot What does this have to do with NTFS write support and reliability? The partition table is not part of any filesystem! You again confuse apples with oranges.


I have come to personally believe that Microsoft is deliberately taking steps to keep Linux from safely writing to NTFS. And since they can continue to modify XP with "security updates" I expect that any safe form of writing to NTFS will be short lived and that XP will be updated to destroy the partition when this is detected (of course, this is just a theory, and I'm sure many believe that the good people at Microsoft would never stoop to dirty tricks to fight the OS that they have declared their hate for).
The Linux-NTFS developers say they know the format and the code works well on all flavours of Windows and NTFS (see again the above page: "Windows XP, Windows Server 2003, Windows 2000, Windows NT4 and Windows Vista. All NTFS versions are supported, used by 32-bit and 64-bit Windows"). And their code indeed works.


Reading is safe, but any form of writing seems to cause problems.
Please demonstrate a reliability problem. You don't need Windows to do this. You can create NTFS on a file by mkntfs in any Unix filesystem (or ntfsclone a metadata image) and mount it either by the kernel driver or even better by ntfsmount which is also used on Knoppix 5.0. I tried to trash data intentionally many different ways but never could which also supports its developers' claims about the data safety. And please don't confuse functionality with reliability, see more about it here: http://wiki.linux-ntfs.org/doku.php?id=ntfsmount