How to install to already partitioned HD

[garrincha]

After reading some of the posts on HD install, I am no closer to getting a clear understanding.

I have an old Pentium II that already has two partitioned drive. The drive C is where Win98 runs while drive D is the second partition and it remains unformatted (in DOS terminology).

I would like to install my knoppix or DSL (Damn Small Linux) to drive D. How do I go about it exactly? I also have read about 'frugal install' especially for DSL which seem to be the best option for DSL. I am talking about having a dual-boot system where I could boot into either linux or Win98.

Help!!! :(

I only started messing around with linux in the last few weeks, so I am 'green' with regards to understanding the linux setup.

Ah know that liveCD is designed to be run off the CD/DVD-ROM and that installing to HD will make it Debian-like install.

[Harry Kuhman]

Ah know that liveCD is designed to be run off the CD/DVD-ROM and that installing to HD will make it Debian-like install.
Actually, installing it to hard disk will likely make it buggy and unstable, and even more so if you ever add software or update anything.

Already having available space on an unformatted partition is a good start to install Linux. But since you indicate that there is a D partition but it is unformatted that implies that the partition has a partition type (likely FAT and not Linux) and that you likely have used all of the disk space for that one remaining but unused D partition.

We also don't know how much space is available for D, which would help us give proper advice.

My suggestion would be to use a DOS/Windows tool like Fdisk to erase the second D partition. As long as you only remove D and not C this will not impact the Windows 98 stuff on C. Then decide how you want to dual boot. If you are willing to do it with Grub then move on to the next step; if you want to use Smart Boot Manager then install it to the MBR now, if you want to use XOSL (like I do) then make a tiny few meg partition and install XOSL there.

Then it's time to install Linux in the remaining available space. I will not take part in any blasphemy of installing Knoppix. DSL might be an OK choice, but unless there are compelling space issues I see no reason to do it. Debian (I would suggest the Net-install of Etch/testing version) should install nicely in the remaining available space, it should offering installing to available space as one of the install options and it would allocate that space properly for both a Linux partition and a swap partition during the install process.

[garrincha]

Harry, thanks again for the suggestion.

The total HD space on the Pentium II machine is 4G and the D drive holds about 1.2G of unformatted space. It is FAT32 partition.

What is the procedure for using Fdisk to erase the D partition? And what will happen to that 1.2G od space? Just for sake of simplicity, I would like to do a Lilo boot, what is the correct procedure? The various online methodologies only made the thing a bit confusing for me!

I'm actually thinking of installing DSL and keeping knoppix as liveCD since I figured out that it will be bit buggy with Knoppix HD install as you mentioned.

[Harry Kuhman]

The total HD space on the Pentium II machine is 4G and the D drive holds about 1.2G of unformatted space. It is FAT32 partition.
I have "great" news for you. 1.2 gig is not enough space to install Knoppix, at least unless you do a "poor man's install" where you just copy the compressed files to disk or just boot the ISO from hard disk (in which case you can't change things any more than you can on the CD). So at least you have a small enough space to keep you out of trouble. It would be large enough to install Debian though.


What is the procedure for using Fdisk to erase the D partition? And what will happen to that 1.2G od space? Just for sake of simplicity, I would like to do a Lilo boot, what is the correct procedure? The various online methodologies only made the thing a bit confusing for me!
In windows run a DOS command shell. Run fdisk. I always look before I touch, so do a "4". It should show you the 2 partitions. It is extremely likely that D is actually a logical drive inside an extended partition, although you have not told us enough to be certain of that. Back at the main Fdisk menu (hit esc to get there) do a "3". If D is a logical drive you will have to delete that before you can delete the extended partition. But delete D, then delete the extended partition if there is one. That should do it based on what you told us, but when you are done there should only be a C partition when you do a "4" again and it should only take up some of the drive. If you are using tools other than the Win98 version of Fdisk the commands might not be 4 and 3 but they should always clearly tell you that there is an option to delete or remove partitions.


I'm actually thinking of installing DSL and keeping knoppix as liveCD since I figured out that it will be bit buggy with Knoppix HD install as you mentioned.
The new version of DSL seems better suited to installing than Knoppix although I have not tried it. They have some applications available as klik-like downloadable compressed files, which would be good for your tight space requirements too. But while you have the chance, why not at least try installing Debian Etch/testing by a net-install and then using apt-get to install some appliactions and see how you like it? The Net-install should be extremely clean. You can let Grub install to the MBR and be the program that lets you dual boot (Have DOS with FDISK on a bootable floppy so that you can remove grub if you want; just boot the floppy and type "FDISK /MBR"). Install the Desk-top environment (it will default to Gnome, not KDE, but Gnome will take much less space which is a reall blessing with that small of a hard disk). And if you don't like Debian just go back into FDISK and delete all of the new partitions except C and then try the DSL install. But the experience of installing a real hard disk install of Linux will be worth it, even if you decide not to keep it, and you have the space now.

[garrincha]

Just saw your post Harry, I ran the Fdisk command as you mentioned. Here is what I got when I did the option no. 4:

Current fixed disk drive: 1

Part---Status---Type---MB---Sys
C: 1---A------PRI DOS---2840---FAT32
D: 2----------PRI DOS---1271---UNKNOWN

Now, after entering option no. 3, I am given these four choices of deletion:
1. Primary DOS partition
2. Extended DOS partition
3. Logical DOS part
4. Non-DOS part

Isn't 'PRI' in the part table short for Primary and there seem to be two primary DOS partition?

After deleting D part, what is the correct procedure for doing the Grub install before going on to the DSL install?

[Harry Kuhman]

As to the partitions, Fdisk will only create a single primary FAT partition, it insists on creating any additional partitions as Logigical drives inside an extended partition. So just how you got this second primary partition is not clear, and I don't know if it can be safely deleted by Fdisk (since you can't seem to select it without getting C). I would use a different partitioning tool. I like Ranish Partition Manager, built into XOSL but also available as an independent download that should run fine under DOS. There are likely many other free partitioning tools that will let you delete this as well, including some built into Knoppix. The thing is that I don't have a high comfort level with the partitioning tools in Knoppix. You might want to look at cfdisk but I don't know it well. qtparted is another partituion tool but I see lots of reports of beginners destroying their entire disk with it, so I would caution anyone who is asking partitioning questions from using it.

Any insight on how that second unformatted partition got there? You might be able to delete it as a non-DOS partition, but I sure would not try the "delete Primary partition" option.

The proper procedure for installing DSL is to read the DSL install instructions very carefully and be very sure that you understand everything before installing. I have not installed DSL and I don't offer any support for installing any live CD. If you want help installing Debian I'll try to help and many others here know plenty more than I about installing it.

[garrincha]

Thanks for the info Harry.

I suspected that the 'D' partition was created from the original 'C' drive using the DOS *Fips* partition, since the Win98 data in the 'C' partition is unaffected. When I looked in My Computer in Win98, drive C and drive D are shown, however, drive D is not accessable. When I look under the property box, D is shown as FAT partition (C is FAT32 part).

I have seen Ranish Partition Manager online but it seems to be rather slightly out of date and the info on the webpage is incomplete. I have also seen info on cfdisk and qtparted - just more confusion! :roll:

I am actually thinking of doing a 'frugal install' (or 'poorman install' as you mentioned) for DSL. There is instruction for it called 'How to install DSL on the Hard Drive via DSL Frugal Installation (in pdf): http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/damnsmall/current/pdfdocs/FrugalHowto.pdf

In fact, before the 'frugal install' of DSL, cfdisk had to be performed - and I don't see how it is applicable in my situation. There is actually in liveCD DSL's GUI menu option of frugal install using either grub or lilo.

I really want to be clear about doing a dual-boot install and if it is possible at all to get for example bootable from either Win98 or Linux using DSL 'frugal install'???

But by all mean, please I would like to read about Debian install if you think that it is a better option - I'm just keeping my option open.

[Harry Kuhman]

I suspected that the 'D' partition was created from the original 'C' drive using the DOS *Fips* partition,
I have been working in computers since long before the first PC (or even the first hobby computer), and yet I have no idea what the above line means.


I have seen Ranish Partition Manager online but it seems to be rather slightly out of date
We are just talking about deleting a partition here, the software doesn't need to have been updated last month. And you're talking about a Win98 system on a 4 gig hard drive. Ranish will be fine. I don;t think I ever read the documentation myself; it would be a pretty poor program if you had to read the documentation!


I am actually thinking of doing a 'frugal install' (or 'poorman install' as you mentioned) for DSL....
I have said all I plan to about the pros and cons of Live CD install, and I can't give advise on DSL.


I really want to be clear about doing a dual-boot install and if it is possible at all to get for example bootable from either Win98 or Linux using DSL 'frugal install'???
It certainly can be done, I could use XOSL to build a system that could boot dozens of different OSs on the same computer. I expect Grub will work OK and I have a dual boot system that does use GRUB (because of a bug in Debian etch that would not let me install grub where I wanted). But I can't say any more than follow the DSL instructions with great care if that is what you really want to do. Just why you would want to go that route I don't think you have said.

[garrincha]

Harry thanks for the info. I spend some time reading the online manuals and FAQ. I decided to try the Debian install as you mentioned in your earlier post - I will leave DSL install for later, it should suit my other smaller, older machine in the storeroom.

I managed to restore the HD to the original format, i.e. it now has just one C (FAT32) partition with a total of 4G and Win98 running on it.

I have a debian-testing-i386-netinst.iso CD#1 burned on a CD, I wish to have it install on my HD and a multi-boot (Win98 and Linux-Debian). Do I have to create partitions in DOS using for eg XOSL before booting from the debian-testing iso CD and install Debian? Did I miss a step? I would rather stick with partitioning and creating multi-boot with XOSL and installing Debian for now.

By the way, I just want to install to HD simply because it will work slightly faster and the CD-ROM drive in the Pentium machine is quite noisy!

[Harry Kuhman]

I have a debian-testing-i386-netinst.iso CD#1 burned on a CD, I wish to have it install on my HD and a multi-boot (Win98 and Linux-Debian). Do I have to create partitions in DOS using for eg XOSL before booting from the debian-testing iso CD and install Debian? Did I miss a step? I would rather stick with partitioning and creating multi-boot with XOSL and installing Debian for now.
Debian testing net-install is an aprox 100 meg ISO. Debian testing CD#1 is around 650 megs (maybe more, it's been a while since I looked). I'm not sure which you are about to use, it may matter later in discussing things but either will get you where you want to get (assuming that you have an internet connection for net-install, not needed for CD#1).

If you want to install XOSL (completely optional), do it now before you let Debian Install. Download XOSL (see Google) and follow the instructons. You'll want two floppies, one DOS bootable, one not bootable, no bad sectors, and the XOSL install program but not the documentation on it. Make it a 2 meg partition, but don't be alarmed if the partition grows to about 8 meg when you create it; this happens based on disk geometry and is not a problem (partitions must occupy a full cylinder). If you use XOSL then later in the Debian install process, when it asks about grub towards the end of the install, tell it not to install grub to the MBR, but rather tell it to install grub to the Linux partition.

IF you want to use grub as your multi-boot loader, you are ready to start from the system you described. Boot the Install CD. Answer the minimal dialog, telling it to use the remaining available disk space, and tell it to do a simple install with all programs on one partition (unless you are expert enough to know how you want multiple partitions organized) and a swap partition. When you get to the type of install, don't take any of the server options but do take "Desktop install" if you want the Gnome GUI to be installed at this point. Make good notes, including what password you assign root and the user/password for the "normal" user When you get to the grub question, if you are using XOSL or SBM to boot then install grub to the Linux partition. If you want grub to the the boot manager that selects between sindows and Linux then let grub install to the MBR (the default). Good luck, but take comfort that you can always wipe out the partitions and go again if you want. If you need to remove grub from the MBR for any reason insert a bootable DOS floppy with FDISK on it and type "FDISK /MBR".

If you use grub as your boot manager, Linux will set it up to boot both Linux and Windows (since it sees that you already have Windows). If you use XOSL you will have to boot into XOSL and create start meny entries for both Win98 and your new Debian system. Tell XOSL to boot the Linux partition, it will find the copy of grub installed there and pass the rest of the boot process over to grub. SBM is about the same as XOSL, but less feature rich and less pretty.

[Harry Kuhman]

By the way, I just want to install to HD simply because it will work slightly faster and the CD-ROM drive in the Pentium machine is quite noisy!
You'll actually learn a lot in doing a Debian install and working with it. The new install is pretty clean, should not be any harder than installing Knoppix. You will have to install the appliactions that you want (ones included with Knoppix or others), but with a network connection this is as easy as typing "apt-get package-name", and it lets you have exactly the packages that you want and wil use. Of course it will be faster than running from CD-ROM, you can update packages as needed, and your CD drive will be available for use under Debian, amoung other benefits.

[garrincha]

Harry, I just tried to install Debian on my HD this evening but was stymied!:cry:

Before I booted the Debian CD, I actually backed-up my personal data, re-installed Win98 and clean & defrag the C drive (there is still 1 fragmented file), so I have at the begining at least 2.7G free space out of 4G.

I followed the Debian install o.k., just a little hitch in that I had to manually config my DHCP.

When I came to the screen titled 'Partition disks', there are three methods listed:
1. Use the largest continuous free space
2. Erase entire disk: IDE1 master (hda) - 4.3GB Maxtor 90432D3
3. Manually edit partition table.

I chosen #1, but the dialogue came back with this message:
"Failed to partitioned the selected disk" and it gave some possible reasons for this: "selected disk or free space is too small to be automatically partitioned."

I clicked on <continue> and was presented with an overview of current config partitions and mount points and some selections:

"-config software RAID
-config the logical volume manager
-guide partition
-help on partition

IDE1 master (hda) - 4.3GB Maxtor...
#1 primary 4.3GB fat32
pri/log 8.2MB free space"

So where did I went wrong? By the way, I used the CD disk that came with the Debian book (Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 bible) that I borrowed from someone, but that person is away, so I couldnt get help from him at the moment.

[Harry Kuhman]

Defragging the Win98 partition is meaningless as far as installing Linux to the rest of the free space outside of the C partition is concerned. From what you posted it seem that the Debian installed does not think that there is free space.

You never did say what you did to get rid of that D "primary partition". If you didn't get rid of it this is the result that I would expect. Please tell us how you got rid of D to freee up that space for a Linux and a Linux Swap partition and post the current information from doing a "4" in windows Fdisk.

[garrincha]

O.k. I actually took back my machine to the shop where it originally came from, and had it restored by using the boot floppy - it had apparently been partitioned by using FIPs (see, e.g. http://www.linuxmigration.com/quickref/install/disk.html#fips).

With regards to no. 4 of FDISK, this is the info displayed:

Part-----Status------Type-------MB---Sys
C: 1-----A---------PRI DOS---4110---FAT32

[Harry Kuhman]

O.k. I actually took back my machine to the shop where it originally came from, ..... this is the info displayed:
Part-----Status------Type-------MB---Sys
C: 1-----A---------PRI DOS---4110---FAT32
Well, that change be the shop is your problem. You now have a C partition that takes up all of the 4 gig hard drive and no space for Linux partition.

I sure hope that the shop didn't charge you anything to do this (although I suspect that they did). At the current price of 25 to 33 cents a gig of mid-size IDE hard drives you could have bought a lot of extra hard drive for not much money, which would have been far better than paying for mucking with the current hard drive.

I had never heard of FIPS. Thanks for the link. Following another link (http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-9-Manual/install-guide/s1-x86-dualboot-fips.html) in the link that you provided reveals that FIPS is a RED HAT tool for shrinking a FAT partition. That does not explain in any way why you had 2 primary partitions on your 4 gig hard disk.

There are tools that will try to shrink a FAT partition. FIPS is apparently one. Partition Magic (not free) is another. All such tools seem to advise strongly that you have a good backup of the hard disk before trying to use them. If you used FIPS or any such tool to shrink the C partition back to where it was then you would have the free space that we spoke of in previous posts.

You could also considering adding another hard drive to this system. Be advised that it is pretty old and buying new hardware might not make sense. And it is old enouh that it will have a limit on how large of a hard disk you can install. That limit will certainly be no larger than 120 gig hard drives, but might be as small as 8 gig hard drives. If you have old drives you might want to add one in, or you might find friends will small old drives that they would be glad to give you.

I hope you now see why Debian didn't find free disk space now, if not ask again and I'll try to make it more clear. Your probelm was likely that you didn't communicate with the shop that you were planning to install Debian on the space where D was and that they removed D (which really really never should have been there) but then decided to give you that space back, and worse they did it by resizing your C partition with some software like Partition MAgic rather than just making an extended patrtition and putting a D logical drive in it (if they had done it that way I could easily talk you through removing D again, but ....).

[garrincha]

O.k. Harry 8)

Actually, the guy didnt charge me anything. It was an old machine and I got it for a bargain for almost nothing.

The C drive holds Win98 and there is about 2.7G of free space on that drive.

So what you're actually saying is that I should partition the 'C' drive before I boot the Debian CD? I read the FIPs link you provided, would it works for the Debian installer? Say I use FIPs as described in the Red Hat installation doc, partition C by resizing the drive, rebooting and then boot from Debian CD?

[Harry Kuhman]

Free space on a C partition is of no use to Debian (or just about any other Linux install). It needs to be free space on the hard drive that is outside any existing Windows partition. This wouild have been the case if the old D partition had been removed with Ranish or any other partition tool that would do it and if C had been left at it's original size. But Fdisk could apparently not delete D because it was another primary partition on the same drive. And whatever the shop did they enlarged C in the process.

FIPS is not a part of the Debian install process. As you pointed out, the Debian install can not preceed because there is not free space on the disk.

If you have some way to run FIPS it might work, I have never used it, don't have any way to support it, and can only caution you that if you use anything that can supposedly shrink back the C partition to where it was to have very good backups of anythig that you consider important before you try. Or ask the shop if they have any old 2 to 5 gig hard drive that thay want to sell you dirt cheap and add a second drive (I would not expect to pay more than $10 for a 5 gig drive, maybe a lot less). Ask them to jumper it as a slave drive if they do.

[garrincha]

O.k. Harry! :lol: I spend all night reading the online instructions on FIPs (there seem to be conflicting instructions among some of them) and installing a dual-boot system. Apparently it works - I got much the same partitions table as before I took the PC back to the shop.

FYI:
Go to the documentation for FIPs v2.0 (http://www.igd.fhg.de/~aschaefe/fips/), first read the FIP.DOC, download the FIPs v2.0 zip file, then make a boot floppy by copying the FIPs files RESTORRB.EXE, FIPS.EXE and ERRORS.TXT to the disk. When you start FIPSs, you will be given the opportunity to write backup copies of your root & boot sector to a file on drive A: called ROOTBOOT.00x (x=0,1,...etc). Boot from the FIPs floppy and do the resizing & partition creation as described in FIP.DOC.

I resized the C drive and created a second primary DOS partition of about 1.7G. Then I rebooted the PC before booting from the Debian CD (the one that came with the book - Debian 3.1 "Sarge").

After walking thru the installion and briefly config DCHP manually (by entering IP, netmask, gateway etc), I then came upon the partition options. I first deleted the second primary partition that I created with FIPs and created the 1.7G free space for debian-linux install, from there let the installer autoconfig for three linux partitions:

#2---primary---649.8MB---ext3---/
#5---primary---106.9MB---swap---swap
#5---logical---1.0GB---ext3---/home

The first partition is #1 primary consisting of 2.5GB fat32 where Win98 lives. After confirming and writing the partition, I then when prompted, installed the debian GRUB, confirm and ended this installation. Rebooting into the GRUB went o.k. - there are four boot options: debian, debian-safe, Win98 and other system. Debian and Win98 worked o.k. In linux, I'm in debian shell prompt.

When I installed the software, I chosen the cdrom as the method which apt access the debian archive. There is an option for network resource -- how do I get that option? What about the GNOME desktop? Most importantly of all I have no idea if the network DCHP config o.k. The debian shell, of course I will work with but later on.

By the way, the NIC (network interface card) was switched off - I had to enabled it from the BIOS setting, so now I have inaddition to this network adapter scientific-atlanta WebSTAR 2000 series cable modem, I also have 3Com Fast Etherlink XL 10/100MB Ethenet NIC.

[Harry Kuhman]

Maybe I need to get some sleep, or some coffee, I'm having rouble following what you have said. Here are just a few observation that I can throw out now:

I'm not at all sure what you did with FIPS, but it does sound like you make space for an install. I'll assume that that is correct and not further concern myself with that.

You talk about installing Debain Sarge. I've repeatedly suggested Etch. Etch is often also called "testing", but it is pretty stable and I see no reason to use Sarge, which has a somewhat more difficult install process (they learned a lot by the time etch was made and it shows). Since Knoppix contains a lot of Etch code I believe that Etch should be considered at least as stable as Knoppix. While you are certainly free to install Sarge, and your hardware is old enough that you are not likely to come across things that were not supported in Sarge but are in Etch, my recent insall experience is with Etch, it's been well over a year since I last installed Sarge and I don't trust my memory on it.

When installing Debina Etch there comes a question for the type of install that you are doing, including options for things like file server or mail server or (if I remember correctly) print server and one of these choices is Desktop Install. That is the option that you take to get Gnome during the install. There are also choices like this in Sarge; I'm sure because when I installed Sarge I got the GUI at install time, but the wording might be different or it might have been presented in a different way, I somewhat recall a check list of things I wanted but it's been too long ago for me to be sure enough to give ohers advice. You very likely can apt-get gnome or kde now (if you apt-get kde you bring in a lot of extra kde applications with it, I think you need to apt-get something else like kde-default to get just the core GUI) . But I have not installed gnome this way and don't know if any extra setup will be needed later; I've always done it by selecting desktop install during the install process.

As to your NICs, I'm completely confused. It sounds like you might have an on-board NIC that you are enabling or disabling in the BIOS. But you system is so old that this understand does not really seem likely. And you seem to call one of the "network adapters" a "scientific-atlanta WebSTAR 2000 series cable modem". A cable modem is not a network adapter. It is the thing that you plug attach the network adapter (NIC) to to get to the outside world. I can tell you two things here:

1) I always use a router when connecting to the Internet. I consider them critically important in providing hardware firewall protection. And they will make most other network connection problems "go away". These have become extremely cheap, you can get an 802.g wireless/wired router for $9.99 after rebate this week at CompUSA and you can get a Linksys 802.b router for $1.99 after rebate today and Monday.

2) Debian (both Etch and Sarge) has always identified my NICs properly at install time and uses DHCP with the router to get all of the needed setup information. I know a net-install with DSL (I have DSL) would be difficult if not imposiable without a router, but I expect that it would work OK with a cable modem, but some cable companies play games with MAC addresses and such, and a router would resolve this issue for you.

[garrincha]

Sorry to get some thing a lil' confusing for you Harry! :?

Yes, there is no need to be bother about disk partition & FIPs. I have Debian 3.1 "sarge" installed in my HD and I can dual-boot into either Win98 or Debian-Linux. Maybe I should have install Debian-Etch as you mentioned. Just in case, how do I actually remove the Debian-Sarge on my HD, just so that I could install Debian-Etch?

I do not recall coming up to the 'desktop install' (i.e. gnome) during the Debian-sarge install process. Anyway, I tried the apt-get in the debian [root] shell by typing:

atp-get install gnome

after pressing <enter>, I get this:

"package gnome is not available, but is referred to by another package. this may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source
E: package gnome has no installation candidate."

Re: NIC - in the Win98 control panel, system properties, device manager, there is device called "network adapters" and I have these three listed: the Ethenet NIC, Scientifc-Atlanta cable modem and dial-up adapter. The cable modem has both ethenet and USB ports, see WebSTAR DPC2100 Cable Modem Features (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/webstar_features.htm). My modem is similiar, it is EPC2100 series.

[Harry Kuhman]

Just in case, how do I actually remove the Debian-Sarge on my HD, just so that I could install Debian-Etch?
I expect that there is more than one good way. I personally would just delete the Linux partition and the Linux swap partition and then Net-install Debian and tell it to use the now free space on the diak.


I do not recall coming up to the 'desktop install' (i.e. gnome) during the Debian-sarge install process.
It may have been worded different in Sarge, I just don't remember, I've done a lot of different installs since then, but I'm certain it was there and that it wasn't too hard to come across (since I did).


Anyway, I tried the apt-get in the debian [root] shell by typing:

atp-get install gnome

after pressing <enter>, I get this:

"package gnome is not available, but ......
I would have expected the name to be gnome, but maybe the name is something different. I have not had reason to track down the exact package name since Etch installed it for me. You could try searching through the Debian package list (http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages), be sure that you use the right list for Sarge or Etch.


I understand a bit more of the confusion on the cable modem now. What Windows calls something can be confusing, but in this case I think it is included here because you have a USB driver for the device in Windows. I strongly discourage any networking done over USB and if you can also attach that modem by ethernet I suggest that you do so and remove the USB support completely from Windows, it will run much better. This is also essential before you can add a routerm, as the USB connection stops you from attaching the router or otherwise having a proper network. You should not see this cable modem as a device under Linux, you should simply see you NIC or NICs and a NIC should connect to the cable modem or, better yet, to a router that connects to the modem.

[garrincha]

Harry, I was just checking documention on deleting the linux partition using FDISK. Apparently, you're supposed to delete only the Non-DOS partitions? I checked using FDISK and this is what I have:

Part---Status---Type--------MB---Sys
C: 1---A--------PRI DOS---2408---FAT32
2----------------Non-DOS---620
3----------------EXT DOS---1090

The EXT DOS partition contains logical DOS drives. when I displayed the logical drive info, it showed, 'No logical drive defined'.

FYI: Un-Doing Dual-Boot Using FDISK on Windows 98 (http://www.aboutdebian.com/dualboot.htm).

[Harry Kuhman]

Apparently, you're supposed to delete only the Non-DOS partitions?
No, Fdisk can delete any partition, DOS or non-DOS. Actually, some old versions of Fdisk refused to delete the non-DOS partitions (over agressive safety on Microsoft's part as far as I'm concerned), but the version that you have seems to have grown out of that. Of course, deleting DOS partitions means that you could delete your data or even the entire OS if you don't know what you are doing, so do it when you have a very good idea of what you are doing and be careful.

It sounds like you now have an extended partition but there are no logical drives defined it it. Great, as you can only delete an extended partition when using Fdisk if it is completely empty (another safety issue, there is no real reason why a prorgam couldn't detelt an extended partition no matter what was in it). So you should be able to use Fdisk to delete the extended partition just fine. I'm assuming that windows sees only a C drive and no other hard disk partition is available to it (unlike before when D could be seen but was not formatted). Just be sure that you delete the extended partition and not the primary partition.

As to undoing a dual boot install, I think it covers what I already said. You remove the Linux partitions (or just leave them there and ignore them if you want). You get the program that starts the multi-booting out of the Master Boot Record (I told you how to do this with Fdisk). The Windows partition should be marked active, but I believe that it will still be marked active and this is not changed by the Linux install, but if you somehow find that you need to mark it active again you can do this with Fdisk also.

[garrincha]

:roll: O.k. Harry. I spend all evening removing the debian linux (sarge) partition and installing the debian-etch CD #1.

Everything went smoothly with the debian-etch installer until I reached the 'select and install software' part, the install was about 95% (just after preparing x-window-system-core portion) completed before an error came up:

'installation step failed - you can try run the failing item again from the menu or skip it and choose something else'

I tried running the failing step again several times but it didnt works. So I skipped to the next step which was the GRUB install but I got:

'unable to install GRUB in (hd0), executing 'grub-install (hd0)' failed' 'This is fatal error'

After seeing the fatal error message, I knew that I'm scr&wed!! The PC failed to re-boot - blank screen. So I had the miserable job of re-installing Win98 and network.

FYI, the partition info before the installation failed:
IDE 1 master (hda) ----4.3GB---Maxtor
#1 primary-------------2.4GB---fat32
#2 primary-------------1.8GB---B f---ext3----/
#5 logical---------------115.1MB--f swap-----swap

[Harry Kuhman]

So I had the miserable job of re-installing Win98 and network.
No, you did not have to do that!!!!

I told you many times that you could remove grub from the MBR with the copy of fdisk that comes with Win98 (and advised you to bave a bootable copy of DOS with fdisk on it before you did anything) just by typing " fdisk /mbr ".

I do not know the cause of your errors, I don't even have much of an idea of what you selected, but the Windows reinstall was completely unneeded, you just had to remove grub and restore the MBR to a MBR that Windows expects!

[garrincha]

O.k. Harry. I should have used the the Win98 boot floppy with fdisk. Anyway, that's in the past. So I had to remove the GRUB bootloader BEFORE I do the debian-etch installation?

The Debian-Etch install actually went well so far until the failure. I started from beginning with about 1.8G of free space in C drive, installed the Debian-Etch boot CD #1 and went thru the installation steps. When it come to the partition step, I let Debian-install do it automatically and the partition table was as I posted in my last message. After about 30-40 mins, when the the installation was about 95% completed, I received the install failure message as described in the above post.

When I installed the Debian-Sarge CD, somehow the step where I choose the 'desktop install' didn't came up, otherwise the whole installation including GRUB install went o.k.

[Harry Kuhman]

O.k. Harry. I should have used the the Win98 boot floppy with fdisk. Anyway, that's in the past. So I had to remove the GRUB bootloader BEFORE I do the debian-etch installation?
That is a good question and I'm not sure of the answer to it. I would expect that Debian could install Etach to a system that already had grub in the disk's mbr and would just replace that grub with the new grub form this install, but I guess there is a very small chance that it could confuse Debian or at least bring up a question that I have never seen. I really don't know because as I mentioned I almost always use XOSL in the MBR (and XOSL has never confused Debian, it gladly over writes it if you let it). So unless I learn otherwise I think there is no need to remove grub, other than to get Windows back to it's normal Windows only boot mode.


After about 30-40 mins, when the the installation was about 95% completed, I received the install failure message as described in the above post.
I'm not at all clear about what the problem you hit is. Perhaps someone who knows Debian better (I'm very much just starting to learn myself) will join in and provide some answers or at least ask the right questions.


When I installed the Debian-Sarge CD, somehow the step where I choose the 'desktop install' didn't came up, otherwise the whole installation including GRUB install went o.k.
I take it then that you got far enough in the Etch install to see that desktop install question? I do know that the Sarge install dialog is different, they have made it much more user friendly in Etch, but I'm sure that the offer was made in some form in Sarge as well. If I remember correctly it was a list of things that you wanted and you checked of things you want or unselected things you did not, but I could be remembering a completely different Linux install there.

[garrincha]

:D

Harry, I would like to say thanks for all the help. I hope that you didn´t indigested too many coffee!8)

I decided to install Debian-Etch onto a separate HDD. Apparently, when I tried to install Debian-Etch to the 2nd HDD partition alongside Win98, it keep failing to complete the software install near the end, just before GRub/Lilo bootloader config setup. The same thing happened with Debian-Sarge install. Must be some software bugs, though I´m not too sure.

Anyway, the Debian-Etch with Gnome desktop worked like charm on the old pentium machine, much better than Win98.

Do you know of an alternative to MSN messenger? I noticed that in the Knoppix LiveCD that there is app called ´Minicom´ - do you have any idea about it? I´m wondering if it is the same kind of thing as the text service for deaf/hard-of-hearing people. In the UK, there is a text-phone service for the deaf/hoh also called ´Minicom´.

[Harry Kuhman]

Congratulations. I don't use messanger or the other software that you ask about, but I would suggest starting new threads in the General forum and asking there.

[garrincha]

Hey Harry, just sending you a Christmas greeting and all the best for the new year!

I haven't forgetten and thanks for the all the help. FYI, I'm running Debian/Etch (soon to become 'stable') on a slightly souped up PII machine, I added an extra 8 G of space. After experimenting with desktop environments Gnome, and KDE (briefly) I tried other window managers like window maker, icewm, xfce, fvvm etc before settling on fluxbox whiich is light and very fast and enlightenment (E16) also fast but slight more 'eye-candy'. I briefly tried out other linux distros but I eventually stick with Debian, which I supposed is the 'original' and still the best. I still keep the knoppix LiveCD as a handily backup.

And oh, I completely threw away the Windows platform. :)