Booting Knoppix 5.0 on a non-DVD machine?

[PaulBx1]

I have an IMB Thinkpad A21m that for some reason will not boot or read the Knoppix 5.0 DVD, even though I can play movie DVDs on the machine (yes, my BIOs is up-to-date). Knoppix 4.0.2 works.

I thought I'd try a Poor Man's Install of the 5.0 on it. I put that DVD into another machine that was networked to the Thinkpad, both booted under Windows, and copied the KNOPPIX directory over to the Thinkpad's hard drive (I had previously renamed the KNOPPIX directory from the 4.0.2 to something else).

I then needed a way to start the boot. I tried booting using the 4.0.2 CD, and it sorta worked, but some things were not functional, so I guess it is not as easy as that. The documentation on this site mentioned a mkfloppy script for starting the boot with that, but it must no longer be present with 5.0 (I couldn't find it, anyway).

Anyone got a straightforward way to launch 5.0 off my hard drive, not involving something like lilo or grub? Was my procedure of just copying the KNOPPIX directory over correct, or does the "tohd" cheatcode do something more complex than that when it creates the hard drive copy?

[PaulBx1]

I think I may have a way around this. I just now realize that an (abbreviated?) version of Knoppix 5.0.1 is available on CD, so I will certainly get that.

Also, I just found this thread (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23477&highlight=floppy+boot), which has a lot to chew on, so maybe there is another solution as well.

So, I'm set, for a while at least...

[patelbhavesh]

You can use this route also.IMHO it is the easiest and you can even get away without not having even a CD/DVD Drive.
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11796&highlight=

[ckamin]

PaulBx1:

I would be more concerned why the DVD did not work for you. It might be as simple as a couple of things I will outline. Your DVD drive may not function correctly with DMA on or off. If it worked with 4.0.2, then it worked fine with DMA off, unless you changed that during bootup. Try using the cheatcode "knoppix nodma" or even "knoppix dma" to see if it makes a difference. Also some optical drives simply do not work with some media. I have a Sony that will ONLY read DVD+R and will choke on a DVD-R disk. Bad media and media that has been burned at too high a speed can also be a concern. Knowing what the issue is instead of bashing around looking to work around it, might prevent some issues for you later on with other distros/releases.

[PaulBx1]

That's a good point. I can't try different cheatcodes though, because if I try to boot off the CD/DVD drive with that particular DVD in there, it simply blows by it and boots windows up off the hard drive instead! It simply cannot read anything off that DVD. When I get the 5.0.1 CD and DVD I will check that one.

I don't mind going down this route. It's something I want to be able to do in any case.

[Harry Kuhman]

Smart Boot Manager might help you coax the disc to boot.

[PaulBx1]

I forgot to mention that I can access this DVD just fine on another machine, so it's probably the hardware.

Anyway, the way Knoppix makes sense to me is two possible ways:

1) Carrying the DVD (and a CD for old machines) around with a pen drive, so I can boot in any machine (this implies generally not having a boot loader), or

2) While working at home, booting off the hard drive. As long as I can get that stuff in the machine from my local network, I don't care if my CD/DVD won't boot it. So I don't need SBM to coax the drive there either.

However I have been playing with IPUG's grub4dos thing, at least for the boot off HD (which ain't working very well either - see adjacent thread). Aren't computers fun? :roll:

[Harry Kuhman]

I forgot to mention that I can access this DVD just fine on another machine, so it's probably the hardware.
Maybe it's the hardware, but we have seen many cases of such problems with high speed burns and with bad media, they tend to work on some systems but not others.

[ruymbeke]

I forgot to mention that I can access this DVD just fine on another machine, so it's probably the hardware.

Anyway, the way Knoppix makes sense to me is two possible ways:

1) Carrying the DVD (and a CD for old machines) around with a pen drive, so I can boot in any machine (this implies generally not having a boot loader), or

2) While working at home, booting off the hard drive. As long as I can get that stuff in the machine from my local network, I don't care if my CD/DVD won't boot it. So I don't need SBM to coax the drive there either.

However I have been playing with IPUG's grub4dos thing, at least for the boot off HD (which ain't working very well either - see adjacent thread). Aren't computers fun? :roll:

Option 3)
If you are using "recent" computers which (the bios) can boot off a usb device (hdd or large pen drive)
you can install knoppix, the bootloader and your data on the same usb device and boot from it !
FYI, PQI has a very small and flat usb pen drive "intelligent stick" $25 at newegg which fits in my wallet
within a credit card size housing containing two 1gb very fast (25MB read / 17MB write) usb2 pen drives.
It already "almost" saved my life more than once ...
HowTo in here: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93758#93758
My two cents,
Gilles

[ruymbeke]

Smart Boot Manager might help you coax the disc to boot.
If you are a windows user and are not very experienced with boot loaders I would be very careful !
I just don't like touching the master boot record (mbr) and/or the disk/partition boot sector
of a working windows system which is not mine, or I just cannot take the risk to break ...
My two cents,
Gilles

[Harry Kuhman]

Smart Boot Manager can be run from a floppy disk without ever installing it to the MBR (from a floppy is the way that I would recomend using it if you wanted to find out if you liked it). Still, I've had no problems installing it to an MBR or removing it, although I like XOSL much better. I didn't mention XOSL in this case because XOSL must be installed; it can not run from a floppy.

[PaulBx1]

Maybe it's the hardware, but we have seen many cases of such problems with high speed burns and with bad media, they tend to work on some systems but not others.
Good point, I will see about this when I get the 5.0.1 CD and DVD.


If you are using "recent" computers which (the bios) can boot off a usb device (hdd or large pen drive)
you can install knoppix, the bootloader and your data on the same usb device and boot from it !
FYI, PQI has a very small and flat usb pen drive "intelligent stick" $25 at newegg...
Yes Gilles, that is a "stretch" goal of mine. :) Thanks for the tip about PQI...

<later>
Gilles, I noticed that PQI thing is a small flat card that first plugs into a plastic USB-form factor holder. Is the holder required to use it? Or can you just plug the bare card into a USB port? If the holder is required, that would negate much of the advantage of the small card size...

<later yet>
Wow, it doesn't need the holder. (http://www.pqi1st.com/products/istick.asp) Gotta have one! :)


If you are a windows user and are not very experienced with boot loaders I would be very careful !
I just don't like touching the master boot record (mbr) and/or the disk/partition boot sector
of a working windows system which is not mine, or I just cannot take the risk to break ...
Precisely my concern.


Smart Boot Manager can be run from a floppy disk without ever installing it to the MBR...
Which makes it worth looking at, and I will do so. However remember my "usage model". When travelling, boot loaders are irrelevant because I will simply boot from CD on another's machine. In house, I want more convenience, yet still would rather avoid trampling the MBR, so IPUG's solution looks good to me. Also, I like the old-fashioned way of diddling with small scripts like config.sys, makes the system more understandable and able to tinker with (something that irritated me about the way 98, XP, etc tried to hide system details from users - I'm a tinkerer).

But Smart Boot Manager on floppy will be my next step if this minimalist grub flops for some reason.