New user--How to use Knoppix with Kubuntu

[Michael Pollock]

I am an MSWindows user who is being "obliged" to move more quickly toward Linux than he expected due to finding it difficult to get some programs and/or hardware to function properly, if they function at all, on equipment running Windows98 while refusing the most "recommended" option, to "upgrade" to a new version of MSWindows because of my intense dislike of Internet Explorer (among other complaints). At least, with Windows98, it is possible to disable IE even if I cannot remove it completely (why let a program one will never use to take up hard drive space?). However, as equipment fails, refusing to replace particularly system boards with those specifically designed to work with more recent versions of Windows is not an option, but I can switch to Linux, and have done so, to avoid having to deal with a newer version of MSWindows. Unfortunately, when problems arise, I do not have the experience to troubleshoot specifically Linux issues, as I would with a newer version of Windows, though I am also faced with at least one problem that is not Linux related.

Knoppix was recommended to me as the best means to "recover" data files to which I lost access while attempting to switch from Ubuntu to Kubuntu, but the source for Knoppix that was specifically recommended to me on the Ubuntu Forum was unable to advise me what media options I would have for running/installing Knoppix, and recommended I inquire here. Hopefully I have chosen the correct "department" as I saw nothing specifically for new users.

My "install" options for Knoppix appear quite limited as the only working system board I presently have which I can be certain will be compatible with ANY current flavor of Linux, while having two IDE channels, will not allow me to use both, though such would presumably be required to have concurrent access not just to Knoppix [on a CD/DVD?] but also to both the drive from which the data files are to be moved and the drive to which those files would be moved. This would be the non-Linux problem noted above.

Of course, would it even be necessary for me to have concurrent access?

This board also "supports" SATA drives, but I hesitate to purchase any to resolve the problem because I am far from confident that will indeed resolve the problem--neither the user manual nor box contains any minimum requirements for its use, yet with Windows98 as the OS for this board, I do not have access to any USB devices or the integrated graphics card, i.e., the Windows98 Control Panel will not allow my monitor to be set at anyting other than 16 color VGA. I probably do not have access to the integrated network or sound components, but I would need to have the first mentioned components functioning properly even to consider using those features.

Further, the current expense of SATA drives argue against purchasing such before I can confirm that would resolve the problem. Why would I want to purchase ANY SATA drive when the size of the files ultimately residing on the primary drive in this system would be under 20G, yet the drive itself has 80G capacity AND I also have an empty 120G IDE drive that I cannot use in this system for the reasons already noted?

I have a 1G SD card that the BIOS of this board recognizes and will allow me to use as a "boot" disk. The question is can I run/install Knoppix from the SD card, giving me concurrent access to both Knoppix and the two hard drives by installing the hard drives to the same IDE channel as master and slave (presumably with the drive to be "recovered" as the slave?)? This was the specific question I was urged to ask on this forum.

That said, I have some other questions about the proper "manner" to use Knoppix. A bit of background would perhaps be in order to explain what I mean by that.

I am a touch-typist with a typing speed of 85wpm, and thus prefer having the options of using keyboard commands rather than having to rely only on a mouse. I installed Ubuntu instead of Kubuntu first because Ubuntu was specifically recommended to me by friends who offered to write the programming code for a software program I am designing, secondly, as they live 100+ miles away from me, neither has had many opportunities to observe me, thus recognize that Kubuntu is actually more suited to my "style", and third, I was too green to recognize the differences between them until I had already installed and begun to work with Ubuntu.

Only then did I begin to realize that keyboard options were missing where I had expected, and would prefer to have them available. Noting the same to my friends, they said correcting the problem was simply a matter of downloading and installing the appropriate files. In my first two tries to move from Ubuntu to Kubuntu I was only partly successful, being able to create/install keyboard options for individual programs, but not system-wide. However, with my third attempt, I managed to "lock" myself out of Ubuntu and some data files I had in it, while failing to complete a full conversion to Kubuntu. The recommendation in the Ubuntu Form to resolve these problems was for me to do a "clean" install of Kubuntu on another drive, then use Knoppix to "recover" the files I want from Ubuntu rather than attempt to restore access to Ubuntu, back up the data files then, convert to Kubuntu.

I have now installed Kubuntu on another drive, but it does not seem to provide me any way that I can discover to download anything other than updates to files/programs that were part of this installation, i.e., I cannot download Knoppix to "recover" those files, much less WINE or Opera. I want WINE to be able to use various MSWindows-based programs either because there is no comparable or compatible Linux program or I want to avoid the hassle of converting formats from the Windows program to the Linux program; I want Opera because I prefer it over every other browser I have seen/used.

I can either do a download of Knoppix on a machine other than that on which I have installed Kubuntu then burn a CD from the downloaded image or purchase a DVD with the same. That brings me to the additional questions mentioned earlier--what would be the proper procedure?

It did not occur to me to ask of my likely source for Knoppix if it could be run without first installing it to an hard drive, but that was the impression I got from the response. If I must install it to an hard drive, do I install Knoppix over top of Kubuntu, Kubuntu over top of Knoppix, or do I completely avoid "mixing" them?

Would Knoppix facilitate or complicate installing WINE or Opera?

I am not adverse to learning by trial and error, but recognize from my current situation, there are situations, this being one, where it makes more sense to ask for help. Any would be appreciated.

[Harry Kuhman]

Important tip #1. Don't install Knoppix.

See answer #2 (http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/User:Harry_Kuhman). Unlike Ubuntu or Kubuntu, Knoppix was designed primarily as a Live CD and installing has many problems. Installing Knoppix will certainly not help you correct a corrupt Kubuntu install.

The Live CD/DVD might help you recover, or might help you at least back up important data before reinstalling Kubuntu. But since Ubuntu and Kubuntu are live discs as well as being installable systems I don't know why you would need Knoppix instead of one of the flavors of Ubuntu.

[pterandon]

As on overly-opinionated, almost-ex-noobie, I have to differ with the expert here. I've been the whole world over and I thought I found true love. Knoppix is far superior product for newbies even as HDD install.

1) I have a computer for which various flavors and recent versions of k/ubuntu:
a) lock up upon invoking the wireless commands.
b) go into a slow-up stupor when the box is left alone for an hour, a stupor that is only redressable with the power switch .
I HDD-installed Knoppix 5.01 on this box and a) never happens and b) probably isn't happening. Thus, the touted hardware recognition of Knoppix is not just a nicety, it is life and death for some folks to be able to use their puters at all.

2) The smorgasbord of software that comes with knoppix is important in two regards:
a) figgering out how to install software can be a maddening pain. Once as a newbie in a (non-knoppix) forum, someone's answer to the question of getting software was a terse command that downloads the apt-get manual, which far from sufficient as a newbie tutorial :evil: .
b) if you want to try out a half-dozen graphics and text-editing apps for your Windoze formats, they're already there to try.

That being said, and with the caveat that I only half-understand your problem, I'm wondering if your problem of missing files has as much to do with a formatting of the HDD when you switched. Is this possible? The "rescue CD" dimension of knoppix may be of less value therefore.

[Michael Pollock]

Thanks for the replies, but given my occupation, I am perhaps overly cautious about not trying to read more into any given statement than was intended, while recognizing that I may need to do so. For example, when one sees the phrase "daughter-in-law" in, say, a will that was written in the 1700s, chances are far greater she was the testator's step-daughter than the spouse of his/her son as would be the automatic interpetation today. Similarly, having been done page layouts, both with and without graphics, for off-set printing, long before I ever used PageMaker, I was a long time trying to figure out how to "screen" a graphic because the PageMaker manual referred to the process not as "screen", but "fill", something I learned only after reading through a third-party "how to" book on PageMaker.

That said, I see nothing in the replies that says if I can run Knoppix with a board that provides BIOS support for USB devices by copying an image of it to an SD memory card which I could then access with an USB card reader.

This is less of an issue now than it was at the time of my original posting because I am no longer able to get the system to boot, so may be obliged to move the drives to another board without BIOS-level support of USB devices to recover the files I want, in which case, I presumably could use Knoppix in Live mode rather than installing and not have to worry about differences in the hardware configurations between the machine in which the recovery is accomplished and the one in which the software and recovered data files will eventually reside. The problem with that course of action is, as I previously noted, is that I am not certain that the only working machine I presently have meets the minimum system requirements for Knoppix (as long as I intended to use a 3Ghz board, there clearly was no problem, so I had not bothered to look at what the minimum system requirements are, but with a 350Mhz board, there could be a problem).

I had already tried to copy the files in question from the "corrupted" drive to a new master drive on which I had installed Ubuntu as well. The new master drive did not "mount" its slave, or perhaps more accurately, I saw no "image" of a slave on the desktop and I was not able to find the image elsewhere. As the BIOS did acknowledge the presence of both drives as I recall, presumably I could have copied the files using a console to execute the appropriate command, but not only do I not know enough about Linux to begin to attempt the same, I also could not be certain that the same would not have resulted in my being unable to boot the new drive, thus unable to access the files, particularly as I have had happen when attempting to copy or move files between hard drives using DOS when I could not get Windows to boot.

It is for that very reason that in my original posting I specifically used the term "recover" instead of move or copy.

[Harry Kuhman]

That said, I see nothing in the replies that says if I can run Knoppix with a board that provides BIOS support for USB devices by copying an image of it to an SD memory card which I could then access with an USB card reader.
Some people have reported that they have been able to install Knoppix onto a USB flash device. But in my limited experience even though I have a BIOS that claims to be able to boot from a USB device as a boot choice, I have not been able to get it to boot from a flash device. Your results may vary and I wish you luck. But there have been a number of reports of USB problems with the latest version of Knoppix and no version has yet come with an easy tool for installing to a flash device. I would suggest that you look at Damn Small Linux (http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/). DSL comes with an installer for installing DSL to a flash drive, and builds a bootable flash drive with two partitions, one for the DSL boot image and the other to let you use the rest of the flash drive as writeable storage. And DSL being a lot smaller than Knoppix will require a smaller flash device, while still giving you the capability that you are looking for to recover files. And if you can get your system to boot DSL then I would think it is time to try to figure out how to put together a flash bootable Knoppix system, if you still see any need for it.

[ckamin]

DSL is a great choice for booting from a USB device. One resource for some insight to booting Knoppix from a USB device can be found here: http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/USB_Based_FAQ It's an old article (1 year plus), but has some useful updated information.