That's a steep price to pay ...

[thaumielx722]

Hello.

I have knoppix installed to my hard drive. (As Debian-like [recommended]) I would like to occasionally play some of the great games out there on my new debian installation. I tried Wine, even compiled it myself. Then I tried games for Linux. They all seem to have a hard time with my graphics card.

No problem, says I, there must be a new driver. Its probably Linux specific.

There sure is. as long as you dont mind old (1980's version) 2D games. If you want to have any 3D games they recommend you compile it yourself. Again, no problem.

(I have an ATI 9200 raedon, BTW...)

However, a requirement for compiling the new driver is you must have XFree86 on your system. Running Synaptic tells me this is readily available - but when I prepare to download and install it it tells me it has to remove a few things first. Like, for instance, everything about the KDE desktop (in fact, about 20 or 30 things that start with KDE)

Do you believe I should go ahead and remove the only Linux GUI I understand so far and have this capability or is there an alternative?

Sorry about the long-winded question. I really do like Knoppix and I am starting to think that Windows might not be around for too much longer. :D

[Jacky]

Are you using Knoppix 5.0.1 (latest version)? The latest version does not use XFree86. It uses x.org. This latest version has no problems supporting my Radeon 9200.

The alternatives are: 1) download the latest Knoppix version and run as LiveCD or 2) download and install Debian Testing (nicknamed Etch) instead, if upgrading and recompiling is what you want to do. The beta 3 version is now ready, the net-install download is smaller than Knoppix and there's plenty of mirrors to make download fast. Installing Debian is just as easy as Knoppix, if not easier.

Most Knoppix people will tell you that a HD install of Knoppix is a hazardous affair. Any major upgrade or change of packages like what you are planning to do will almost always break Knoppix. So don't do it unless you are adventurous.

[thaumielx722]

Are you using Knoppix 5.0.1 (latest version)? The latest version does not use XFree86. It uses x.org. This latest version has no problems supporting my Radeon 9200.

The alternatives are: 1) download the latest Knoppix version and run as LiveCD or 2) download and install Debian Testing (nicknamed Etch) instead, if upgrading and recompiling is what you want to do. The beta 3 version is now ready, the net-install download is smaller than Knoppix and there's plenty of mirrors to make download fast. Installing Debian is just as easy as Knoppix, if not easier.

Most Knoppix people will tell you that a HD install of Knoppix is a hazardous affair. Any major upgrade or change of packages like what you are planning to do will almost always break Knoppix. So don't do it unless you are adventurous.

It is, indeed, 5.01. And, yes, browsing the web and checking your email are no problems for Debian. I'm of the old school that says having a computer and not at least trying out some of the new games is like having a Porsche (or 280Z - 8) ) and never taking it out of first gear. Hell, I could use my old 8086 PC runnning at 33Mhz with a 56K modem for that.

I will certainly give Debian Sarge (or etch, the more recent - and apparently soon to be stable version) a try. The LiveCD cannot load anything larger than 800 Megs into the Ramdisk. Cool, yes, but very limited. Please tell me where the mirrors are as the Debian.org server starts at 320K/s download but after a few seconds slows to about 5K/s which would take a day and a half to download one CD.

It's just my opinion but installing a recent driver on a 3 or 4 year old graphics card should not constitute a Major Upgrade. Since Linux is run by the Linux community (which now includes me!) I think this should be addressed. Every web site on the earth referring to graphics cards tell every user out there that the first thing you wanna do with even a new card is download and install the most recent driver. Telling users new to Linux that this simple task will Break their Operating System is, in my opinion, a great advertisement for M$.

[Harry Kuhman]

Telling users new to Linux that this simple task will Break their Operating System is, in my opinion, a great advertisement for M$.
Are you a troll or are you just refusing to pay attention? This has nothing to do with Linux, it has to do with Knoppix. Knoppix is a Live CD. There are plenty of warning on thiis site, including this one (http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/HD_Install_Warning_not_to_do_it) and the warning that Jacky just gave you that caution that Knoppix was designed to run from the CD, not to be installed on hard disk. Don't go bad mouthing all of Linux just because you want to ignore these warnings.

If you want a system that you can install cleanly and add programs and drivers to, then use a version of Linux that is intended for hard disk install, such as Debian. If you want a Live CD then many of us feel that Knoppix is great for that purpose. If you insist that you can install to hard disk a system intended to be a live CD then good luck to you, but don't be a jerk and start saying that because your bad choice results in known problems that Windows is somehow better than Linux.

[thaumielx722]

Telling users new to Linux that this simple task will Break their Operating System is, in my opinion, a great advertisement for M$.
Are you a troll or are you just refusing to pay attention? This has nothing to do with Linux, it has to do with Knoppix. Knoppix is a Live CD. There are plenty of warning on thiis site, including this one (http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/HD_Install_Warning_not_to_do_it) and the warning that Jacky just gave you that caution that Knoppix was designed to run from the CD, not to be installed on hard disk. Don't go bad mouthing all of Linux just because you want to ignore these warnings.

If you want a system that you can install cleanly and add programs and drivers to, then use a version of Linux that is intended for hard disk install, such as Debian. If you want a Live CD then many of us feel that Knoppix is great for that purpose. If you insist that you can install to hard disk a system intended to be a live CD then good luck to you, but don't be a jerk and start saying that because your bad choice results in known problems that Windows is somehow better than Linux.

I seem to have struck a raw nerve here, so I apologize.

First off: it was a serious question, answered by a user and I reponded. If this is a problem for the community then I will go in peace. I have indeed read the warnings and installed the Debian-like system as recommended. I am obviously learning Linux from Knoppix and, as I clearly mentioned, plan to place a real Debian system there as soon as possible.

I started in Computers with college courses in 1979. I was the main go-to guy when the PC revolution started in 1981 and by 1983 I was the one who set up all PC's for the (brand new) users. I worked full time for a school district - the administration at first, then eventually for the teachers at the high school. I also did the same job part time at a local hospital and eventually did some temp work for a large DP office for a major international company. There was a lot of hand holding for people who looked at a "Computer Machine" on their precious desks as if it were a rattlesnake.

My point being: If I were as sensitive to even constructive criticism then I would have had a nervous breakdown many years ago and would have joined the Amish community away from all this new-fangled technology.

As for your other "point": The "bad mouthing" appears to be coming from one direction. Kindly tell me what the inaccurate part of my post was. I was, as I said, trying to update a graphics driver.

I remember recieving a free trial diskette of something called "Microsoft Windows version 1.0" in 1983 (maybe it was 1984, it's been a while...) and, in amusement, tried it on a few desktops. My opinion of Windows XP is still the first impression I had back then, over 20 years ago. i do not trust them.

(On a side note: Linux reminds me a lot of some of the old IBM mainframe operating systems. If memory serves me correctly a lot of Linux commands appear similar to IBM console commands. I believe CHMOD, for instance was what IBM callled the same command on their new VMS systems. But it was a Beta site, so I don't know if IBM ever really went public with that particular operating system. It was supposed to work with Supercomputer technology, using huge air conditioners to cool the processors down to almost absolute zero. I have heard nothing about it in the years since. But I am curious if perhaps old Linus Torvald may have run across the system in his travels. I believe they were intended some of that new OS to be used for academic mahines. Part of their new [at that time] Token Ring network, using IBM PC's as terminals connected to a central mainframe.)

Peace. :wink:

[Jacky]

Thaumielx722,

Compiling a new driver doesn't count as a big change, and I have compiled many drivers before. But synaptiuc was asking you to install Xfree86 over xorg, and then changing all the kde packages -- that is a way major change of the Knoppix components, and will break Knoppix.

Anyway, I have some good (well maybe good) news for you. There's Debian packages of the newer ATI drivers. Since Knoppix is based on Debian, you will be able to install these packages into Knoppix and you won't need to do any installing of xfree86 or recompiling. Just do a google search for "debian packages fglrx-driver". See if this works for you. But there's a catch. This driver will only work for 2D.

If you want 3D acceleration, you also need to install a kernel module. Google for "debian packages fglrx-kernel-src". You will also need the package "module-assistant" to help compile the module. So what's the catch? You need the kernel source to compile this, and Knoppix CD version doesn't include the kernel source because of space constraints! It is available on the DVD version though.

So what's the alternative? If you install Debian etch, you can get the kernel source, and you can compile fglrx-kernel-src..... So you see, looks like Debian will be the answer tor you. The beauty of Debian is that it is maintained, as you say, by a community of volunteers. So rather that compiling the stuff yourself, someone out there has probably packaged a readymade Debian package for you.

It's good that you will give Debian Etch a try. You are right, the Debian server is pretty busy. Rather than download the whole CD, I suggest you try download the Etch net-install CD which is only about 100 MB, or even smaller, the business card net-install version. When you install this CD, it will ask you to select a mirror, so select a mirror near you, and then it will download the other components from this mirror much more quickly.

Good luck!