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hanktank
11-12-2006, 03:45 PM
:shock: I got the Knoppix DVD about 2 weeks ago. I got it to work occasionally when I rebooted my computer. I checked my Bios, made sure that I was booting from CD and DVD first, I even held down the tab button so the boot menu would come up and select boot from CD. So I gave up on the DVD, thinking their was an unknown error on it and downloaded a version of Knoppix to burn on CD. I had the same problem with the CD, I even opened up the CD drives before restarting my computer and held down the save disk because someone said that might work. I love animals, but I think penguins hate me. My computer is a Gateway 500s, I have 512 MB of RAM, system is Microsoft XP Home Edition Version 2002, Service Pack 2 it is an Intel Pentium 4 CPU 1.80 GHz 1.79 GHz My floppy drive hasn't worked in some time, I think one of the kids might have put peanut butter in it once. I also ran a test on the CD and DVD (knoppix^testdvd) and I also ran the Memtest86+ V1.65, it all came back ok. I thought their might have been a problem with my computer, so I reformatted my computer to try to get it back to factory specs. I got the CD to work once after I did this. That was 4 days ago I got the DVD to work last night when i did a hard reboot that dont work half the time. I know some of this information might be useless, like the floppy drive, but I figured it might have been something simple that I am overlooking and someone might read this and say," Hey, there is his problem." Linux appears to be to advanced of a operating system. I am used to the ease of XP, I wish it was something simple to get the program to work, because on the rare occasion it did work I enjoyed it, I tell You What

rusty
11-12-2006, 04:37 PM
Hmm, what does this mean?


I reformatted my computer to try to get it back to factory specs

From what you're describing, it sounds like you might have a faulty cd/dvd drive, either on the burning or the reading side. Perhaps the kids fed a little pb&j to that drive as well. In any case, if you are looking to run from the cd or dvd, then knoppix is great way to learn about linux without installing to hard drive.

If you're thinking about a hard drive installed linux that's easy to use - either along side XP or by itself, have a look at Ubuntu.

Any additional info you can post, like error messages that you get when you are trying to boot knoppix, will help.

Good luck!

hanktank
11-12-2006, 04:57 PM
I just meant that I reinstalled Windows XP. On the Cd/Dvd Drive, I have a Cd burner and a dvd drive they are not one, they are seperate. I don't think that both of them would be faulty because I have got the cd version to work and the dvd version to work, on different drives. But with the cd or dvd in there, even if I hard boot my system it seems like it doesn't recognize the cd or the dvd drives. It goes directly to Windows XP. I know that the Bios is set up to recognize the cd and the dvd first but I would like to run Linux from the dvd drive, instead of installing it on my hard drive. It's probably something in the Bios, I just can't figure it out. Please help!

rusty
11-12-2006, 05:12 PM
Does the cd or dvd boot other, non-knoppix cd's? If the boot order is set right in the bios, and the drive lights come on at startup, then either the cd and dvd are bad or the drives are. So I guess the best thing to try is to confirm that any cd or dvd, even XP install disk will boot at startup. If not , i would reset the bios to factory if you can and reconfigure the boot order.

Hope this helps

hanktank
11-12-2006, 05:23 PM
Does the cd or dvd boot other, non-knoppix cd's?

Yes xp cd boot every time i got it in there and i have set the bios to factory. and drive lights come on. i dont know to do :?: :?

rusty
11-12-2006, 05:50 PM
Well, the if the XP disk is the original, then the question remains - is your burner burning right, which could mean either a burner or media problem, See if you can burn some non-knoppix bootable cd , like http://www.ubcd4win.com/ or bartpe or something, to see if we can zero in on the problem. Or try burning some other live linux cd's like kanotix or ubuntu.

hanktank
11-12-2006, 06:15 PM
Ok the cd I burned but the dvd I ordered. Ok now i am downloading ubcd4win but it is going to take about 9hrs lol dial up

ckamin
11-12-2006, 06:45 PM
Sometimes DMA can be an issue with some optical drives. Some need it and some choke on it. Try the cheatcodes to turn it off, or on, depending on the version of Knoppix you are using. If it's 5.0.1, then try the cheatcode "knoppix nodma" at the command prompt when booting to disable DMA. In 5.0.1, you can then selectively turn DMA on for hard disks or other drives, once the system is fully booted.

Here is a link to the section on cheatcodes for more information. Some of it may not apply well to 5.0.1, since it now uses x.org in place of xfree86, but most will work as indicated.

http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Cheat_Codes

edit: Also be certain that the iso you download is correct by checking md5sums and be certain to burn the disk SLOWLY. Many times a disk burned at a higher speed can cause read problems with some drives.

hanktank
11-12-2006, 07:17 PM
command prompt ?????
Are you talking about the Windows XP Command Prompts, or the Knoppix Splash Screen? I have the Knoppix Dvd 5.0.1 Thanks.

rusty
11-12-2006, 07:42 PM
Hmm, 9 hrs. is a long time . Maybe just try re-burning the knoppix cd at a slower speed would help. There's also a real small linux out there - Damn Small http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ which might be quicker for testing puposes.

I think what ckamin means is the boot prompt that you get with the splash screen, if you can get that far. type: knoppix nodma, and it might work better.

BTW, I've had real good luck with knoppix and derivatives on gateway hardware - (PIII).

ckamin
11-12-2006, 07:56 PM
command prompt ?????

The "boot" prompt on the Knoppix splash screen would be the correct place to enter the cheatcode(s). That would be present for a short time before the system continues to boot. You can also press one of several "F" keys for help at that same screen. You would not be booting into Windows if you were running Knoppix from the disk. There could be other cheatcodes that might apply to your hardware and configuration that you might need to use also, but your present issue sounds like a DMA or media concern.

hanktank
11-12-2006, 07:56 PM
Ok, When I reinstalled Windows, of course I lost everything that I hadn't backed up. I had already made the Knoppix Cd, so that is why I can't reburn it. Unless it would be ok to burn another cd from this one, but I don't know if that would work. Copy of a copy, you know. I will look at the damn small linux. Thank you!

ckamin
11-12-2006, 07:58 PM
If the CD you have is corrupted, then making a copy of it would not help. Try the nodma cheatcode to see if it eliminates the issue.

Harry Kuhman
11-12-2006, 08:09 PM
It could be a marginal optical drive, it could be bad media, but there is a good chance that you burnt the disc at high speed and just burning it properly as advised in the downloading FAQ will resolve things.

hanktank
11-12-2006, 08:26 PM
It could be a marginal optical drive, it could be bad media, but there is a good chance that you burnt the disc at high speed and just burning it properly as advised in the downloading FAQ will resolve things.


Yes the CD might be bad, I have had it working, but I ordered a DVD, with 5.0.1 on it also. So, I don't believe the DVD and the Cd both are bad because I have had them both working when I hard boot sometimes. Thanks

hanktank
11-12-2006, 08:31 PM
I hope I am downloading the right version of damnsmalllinux it says: in the download box dsl-3.0-vmx-zip if I am and it is a zip file do I unzip it before I burn it on the CD or is it self contained? Thanks for the help.

Harry Kuhman
11-12-2006, 08:33 PM
Yes the CD might be bad, I have had it working, but I ordered a DVD, with 5.0.1 on it also. So, I don't believe the DVD and the Cd both are bad because I have had them both working when I hard boot sometimes. Thanks
Actually, if you ordered the DVD then my expectation is almost 100% that the DVD is bad. If you bought a pressed DVD (silver bottom), then it might be ok, but if it's a dye DVD (usually a purple bottom) then I completely expect that those trying to profit from others work have burned the disc at a high speed and it is very likely bad or marginal. And you didn't respond as to what speed you burnt the CD at, so my expectation is still a bad high speed burn. If you choose not to believe this that's ok with me.

hanktank
11-12-2006, 08:48 PM
Yes the CD might be bad, I have had it working, but I ordered a DVD, with 5.0.1 on it also. So, I don't believe the DVD and the Cd both are bad because I have had them both working when I hard boot sometimes. Thanks
Actually, if you ordered the DVD then my expectation is almost 100% that the DVD is bad. If you bought a pressed DVD (silver bottom), then it might be ok, but if it's a dye DVD (usually a purple bottom) then I completely expect that those trying to profit from others work have burned the disc at a high speed and it is very likely bad or marginal. And you didn't respond as to what speed you burnt the CD at, so my expectation is still a bad high speed burn. If you choose not to believe this that's ok with me.

I didn't say that I chose not to believe this, and as far as the speed I burnt it at, I didn't respond to that because I do not recall what speed I burnt it at. In any case, I ran the Knoppix testdvd and testcd on both of them, as I said earlier, would the CD and the DVD still be bad if the test came back ok on both of them? Or is the test just no good?
And the DVD that I bought, the bottom of it is purple. And if you like, you can send me a DVD, I wouldn't mind.
Thanks

rusty
11-12-2006, 09:01 PM
I hope I am downloading the right version of damnsmalllinux it says: in the download box dsl-3.0-vmx-zip if I am and it is a zip file do I unzip it before I burn it on the CD or is it self contained?

Unzip it, then burn.

hanktank
11-12-2006, 09:03 PM
I hope I am downloading the right version of damnsmalllinux it says: in the download box dsl-3.0-vmx-zip if I am and it is a zip file do I unzip it before I burn it on the CD or is it self contained?

Unzip it, then burn.

thanks

ckamin
11-13-2006, 03:32 AM
dsl-3.0-vmx-zip may not be what you are after.

This is the "readme first" file that you should have looked at before downloading located at: ftp://ftp.oss.cc.gatech.edu/pub/linux/distributions/damnsmall/current/1-readme_first.txt

There are currently four types of DSL....

dsl-<version>.iso: the standard isolinux version, which is used for liveCD,
frugal, or traditional harddrive install.

dsl-<version>-syslinux.iso: boots using syslinux instead of isolinux,
used for some very old hardware that is no longer supported by isolinux.

Use syslinux version if booting fails with the standard iso.

dsl-<version>-embedded.zip: comes with qemu, for running inside of a host
Windows or Linux system.

dsl-<version>-vmx.zip: a virtual machine that will run in VMware or
VMware player.

frugal_lite.sh is our network install script and requires tomsrtbt linux:
http://www.toms.net/rb/

Docs are located in the pdfdocs/ directory and in the DSL Wiki

Hope this helps.

hanktank
11-13-2006, 10:04 PM
Thanks for all the responses, I appreciate all of the help. I believe Harry Kuhman is right on this one, I have not had a chance to even download damn small linux with my work schedule and everything. So, I guess I'll probably order a Dvd because I would really like to have the dvd set up. If anybody could make a suggestion on the best place to order one from, please let me know. Thanks again!

Harry Kuhman
11-13-2006, 10:38 PM
.....I believe Harry Kuhman is right on this one, I...............So, I guess I'll probably order a Dvd because I would really like to have the dvd set up. .......
My advice is never to order a DVD or CD unless you know you are getting a pressed disc, very unlikly with Knoppix unless you get one of the TAG discs (German) or it comes with a book or magazine. Purchased burnt discs are almost always high speed burns and while they may work they may not, partiularly if you have already seen problems. My advise is still to determine the source of your problem and burn your own CD slowly, and or use a CDRW, which has to be burnt slowly and also had different reflectivity and so changes the automatic gain setting in the reader, which may also cause a difference in reading properties. If you don't have a DVD burner you might even want to consider getting one, I've seen them under $30 for decent ones, (even less for close-outs), and you don't have to buy many DVD images to make that pay off.Otherwise find a friend who can burn it slowly for you and introduce him to Knoppix too.

I always burn CDS at 4x or as slow as the burning software and drive will go, recent versions of Nero seem to refuse to go under 8x on CDRs. I burn DVDs at 4x always (I've seen problems burning at 2.4x or above 4x, 4x seems to be optimum for my drive, DVD media varys greatly though.) The little extra time taken in burning discs is well worth it and prevents many problems and improves long term storage potential of the disc. I'm not happy that a drive that claims to burn at 52x can't really do a decent burn at that speed, but it's a fact I've proven to myself many times and on many different brand drives.

While the Knoppix DVD has more software, there is plenty on the CD to keep a new user busy. By the time you are ready for the DVD you might even have decided to install a real intended-for-hard-disk Linux (not Knoppix) and not need the DVD at all. I suggest solving the current problem and not rush to buy another DVD burnt by someone mainly interested in making a buck.

hanktank
11-13-2006, 10:49 PM
Thanks Harry, I'll go ahead and download Damn Small Linux and burn it slow and see how that works before I get another Dvd. I'll try to figure out what the problem is before I go any further. I believe that would be my next step, to burn something to make sure that it would work. Thanks again! I'll let you know how it works.

hanktank
11-14-2006, 05:16 PM
I downloaded DSL, burnt it to a cd, at 4x speed. Rebooted my computer and the only thing that happened was my computer came up with a blank screen and a blinking line at the top left hand corner. It would not load Damn Small Linux. I am confused now, I have 5 cds that came with my computer including operating systems, drivers and system restore. And they all read when I reboot my system. I am using IsoBuster to unzip the stuff before I burn it. I don't know if its my hardware or if I'm doing something wrong. Its probably me doing something wrong since I'm new at this. Help please, thank you.

Harry Kuhman
11-14-2006, 07:29 PM
I am using IsoBuster to unzip the stuff before I burn it.
Well, duh! What gave you the idea to do that??? It will never work!

See answer #1 (http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/User:Harry_Kuhman).

This was likely never brought up before because you were reporting that the discs sometimes booted, just not reliably. A disc made as described above will absolutely never boot.

hanktank
11-15-2006, 03:49 AM
I am using IsoBuster to unzip the stuff before I burn it.
Well, duh! What gave you the idea to do that??? It will never work!

See answer #1 (http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/User:Harry_Kuhman).

This was likely never brought up before because you were reporting that the discs sometimes booted, just not reliably. A disc made as described above will absolutely never boot.

I looked at answer 1, I came here for help, not sarcasm. In every post you've given me, even though you are a moderater has been demeaning with an unfriendly attitude. The Knoppix DVD that I purchased and the Knoppix CD that I burnt both work periodically. The Damn Small Linux that I just downloaded and used IsoBuster on is the program that just does the blinking when I reboot my computer. I'm sure all the information in your FAQ is important, as you have stated. If you do not feel like you can help people in a proffessional manner, instead of using expressions such as "Duh" and acting like you're 14, which you may be and if you are then I have nothing against 14 year olds. I have kids that age, and they talk exactly like that. So in the words of one of my kids, "Your face is Knoppix!" I'm sure you'll probably be the only one that reads this because you'll probably delete it. Thank you for all of your informative help. Good Bye.

Harry Kuhman
11-15-2006, 05:33 AM
In every post you've given me, even though you are a moderater has been demeaning with an unfriendly attitude.
Oh, really? The first response I gave here was short and to the point, it (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=109039#109039) suggested that while you could have a marginal drive that I suspected that the disk wasn't burnt properly and that I thought it would be a good idea to read the downloading faq. In what way was my trying to help in this post demeaning or unfriendly?

Once I realized that you bought a DVD, I advised you (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=109042#109042) that I've found from experience here that high speed burns are often problematic in booting and that most purchased discs are burnt at high speed. This should certainly be considered demeaning and unfriendly to the people who burn disks at high speed to make a buck, but how is it unfriendly or demeaning to you to warn you about it?

When you said that you were going to buy another high speed burnt disc, my next post (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=109062#109062) just repeated my warning not to buy burnt discs and restated the reasons, and suggested some alternatives to get a good disc, I looked back and I sure don't see anything demeaning or unfriendly there. I didn't show offense that you had completely ignored my advice against burnt discs. I again suggested that you focus on burning a CD that would boot, which sure makes sense to me. Why keep buying discs if you don't know why the first one didn't boot? Maybe you even do have a bad reader, or even a very unlikely Knoppix compatability issue, and just buying more high speed burnt discs tells you nothing.

Then you finally posted that you were using ISObuster to ruin the iso before making the disc. That's interesting because I had pointed you at the downloading faq already (in my first post), and it explains in detail how to burn the CD and, while not mentioning ISObuster by name, states clearly not to extract files from the knoppix iso file. So I pointed you to the downloading faq again. Are you offended that I just pointed you to the already written documentation rather than type it all here in the forum for you? What was demeaning and unfriendly, my simple "duh" after you made it clear that you were ignoring the help I was trying to provide? Is that somehow more offensive that your responses to the help I was trying to provide? Bye Hank, rest assured that I will not try to help you again.

rusty
11-15-2006, 06:34 AM
FIRE BRIGADE!

Hanktank: what cd burning software, other than isobuster do you have on your machine. Nero perhaps? Let us know.

I'm sorry that the DSL link I gave you was incorrect but given that you're on dialup , i thought it would save some time. If you can leave the connection going, go ahead and download knoppix (cd) or kanotix. If you're in North America PM me your snail mail address and I'll send you a few cd's with some distro's on them for you to try.

Usually, if your running xp, when you unzip the download ( if it's zipped) you will be left with one .iso file, right clicking on it might bring up a dialog with a "Burn" button, click it and away it goes. Knoppix will download as a iso ready to burn, without unzipping first.

Believe you me, if you like tinkering with computers, linux will give you many hours or frustration, er learning, um, enjoyment - worth the hassle - although high speed internet definitely makes it easier.

During the week I'm pretty busy with work, but I'll try and check in here when I can.

Best Wishes

hanktank
11-15-2006, 05:37 PM
You're right, Harry Kuhman, and I apologize. I was very aggrivated last night, and I only focused on one thing that you said, that got my goat. Now, your face is Knoppix, I don't care who you are thats funny right there. But I'm sorry for it. I'm very new at Linux and I probably bit off more than I can chew. My first experience with Linux was when I ordered the DVD a while back. I got it working a few times, fooled around on it for a little while, and it made me hungry for more. I'm just anxious to get it working, CD, DVD, or DSL. My CD Writer, the fastest that it will burn is 4x. I appreciate the help that you have given me. Thanks again.

To Rusty, I downloaded DSL at this address: ftp://ftp.oss.cc.gatech.edu/pub/linux/distributions/damnsmall/archive/
I downloaded this version: 06/19/2006 05:42PM 51,806,208 dsl-3.0.iso
I still have it in a file on my computer, when I burn CD's I'm use to just dragging them to the CD folder and then clicking write these files to CD. Which probably isn't the right way to do it. I can download Nero tonight. Like I said, I am new at this. I've tried to do some research on it, I know I need to do more before I post probably. I'm fairly new with computers in general. I bought my first computer when the brand new operating system came out called Windows ME. All I can say about it is, blue is no longer my favorite color. I now help my neighbors and other people I know with simple stuff on Windows XP. But I always try to keep in mind, when I first started, it was something major to me like it is to them. Thanks to everybody for all of your help.

Tank