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Omak
05-20-2003, 03:16 PM
Hello, all!

The terminal server works great when the server is running from the CD, and the client also can boot from the server. But the client cannot work when the terminal server is running Knoppix from the hard drive. The error message is "Can't NFSmount KNOPPIX filesystem, sorry."

Need help.

knoppix-terminalserver running from the CD, the echo were:
Making Mini Rootdisk.
??? 1+0 ??
??? 1+0 ??
6144000 bytes transferred in 0.091419 seconds (67207019 bytes/sec)
mke2fs 1.32 (09-Nov-2002)
??? 1+0 ??
??? 1+0 ??
6144000 bytes transferred in 3.586231 seconds (1713219 bytes/sec)
85.0%
Starting DHCP server: dhcpd3.
Starting portmap daemon: portmap.
Starting NFS common utilities: statd.
Exporting directories for NFS kernel daemon...done.
Starting NFS kernel daemon: nfsd mountd.
Starting domain name service: named.
2003/05/21 21:35:35| Creating Swap Directories
Starting proxy server: squid.


knoppix-terminalserver running from the hard drive, the echo were:
Making Mini Rootdisk.
??? 1+0 ??
??? 1+0 ??
6144000 bytes transferred in 0.057298 seconds (107228863 bytes/sec)
mke2fs 1.32 (09-Nov-2002)
??? 1+0 ??
??? 1+0 ??
6144000 bytes transferred in 3.297174 seconds (1863414 bytes/sec)
85.0%
Starting DHCP server: dhcpd3.
Starting portmap daemon: portmap.
Starting NFS common utilities: statd.
Exporting directories for NFS kernel daemon...exportfs: duplicated export entries:
exportfs: 169.254.0.0/255.255.0.0:/cdrom
exportfs: 169.254.0.0/255.255.0.0:/cdrom
done.
Starting NFS kernel daemon: nfsd mountd.
Starting domain name service: named.
Starting proxy server: squid.

What's wrong?
Help me! Tnx

aay
05-20-2003, 05:49 PM
If I come up with an answer to this one, I will certainly post it as I've been trying to deal with this also. Anyone else had any luck? I'm thinking that the errors are caused because the knoppix terminal server script in /etc/init.d is expecting the server to be running from the cd. I've tried hacking a bit on this script, but havn't gotten it to work yet. Again, if anyone has gotten this to work, please share what you did.

Omak
05-21-2003, 07:52 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
dear aay
I have solved this problem. :lol:

You should copy the directory of "KNOPPIX" to "/cdrom" from the boot CD, include the big image file KNOPPIX. Like this "/cdrom/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX". The first KNOPPIX is a directory and the second KNOPPIX is the big image file KNOPPIX.

Try it. I've successed.

aay
05-21-2003, 02:17 PM
Nice solution. One question. Can the client run programs other than the ones included on the CD? In other words can clients run programs that have been updated or newly installed on the hd-installed version of Knoppix? I wouldn't think so, but if you have gotten this to work, let me know.

Omak
05-22-2003, 06:39 AM
Nice solution. One question. Can the client run programs other than the ones included on the CD? In other words can clients run programs that have been updated or newly installed on the hd-installed version of Knoppix? I wouldn't think so, but if you have gotten this to work, let me know.

You want the client can run programs that have been updated or newly installed on the hd-installed version of KNOPPIX? I think it was difficult, but you can do like this way: :roll: remaster KNOPPIX to create a new image, then replace /cdrom/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX with the new one.

About how to remaster KNOPPIX, please visit
http://www.knoppix.net/docs/index.php/KnoppixRemasteringHowto
:oops: Mybe you can not understand my poor English.

aay
05-22-2003, 07:52 AM
Omak,

I understand what you are saying, but would rather try and figure out how to get the terminal server working with an actual installed version of knoppix.

Thanks

Omak
05-23-2003, 06:18 AM
aay

I see. You want use the terminal server in a real hd install environment. It's a nice idea. I'll do experiment the day after tomorrow. If I worked out, I'll share it.

aay
05-23-2003, 07:59 AM
aay

I see. You want use the terminal server in a real hd install environment. It's a nice idea. I'll do experiment the day after tomorrow. If I worked out, I'll share it.

Yes if you make any headway on this PLEASE let me know. I've tried it and gotten the same nfs errors as you list above. I'm wondering if it may have to do with the way thing are set up in the /etc/init.d/knoppix-terminalserver script and/or in /usr/sbin/knoppix-terminalserver (the same script I think).

Omak
05-25-2003, 01:49 PM
aay

You should read this file -- linuxrc, in the directory /usr/share/knoppix-terminalserver/templates/miniroot.
Within it, there are two lines like this:
#Harddisk-installed script part version has been removed
#(KNOPPIX can be booted directly from HD now).

So, I thought, if we get the script that had been removed, the terminalserver will works great in real hd evironment.
I had send a mail to Klaus Knopper. I hope he can send the harddisk-installed script part version to me, but he did not understand my poor English
:cry: :oops: .
I hope you can get the script that had been removed. You can describe clear with English. If you get the script, I hope you can send to me a copy. My E-mail: mzymmqm@163.net.

Thanks very much.

:oops: :cry: I'm sad for my poor English. :oops: :cry:

aay
05-26-2003, 01:58 AM
aay

You should read this file -- linuxrc, in the directory /usr/share/knoppix-terminalserver/templates/miniroot.
Within it, there are two lines like this:
#Harddisk-installed script part version has been removed
#(KNOPPIX can be booted directly from HD now).

So, I thought, if we get the script that had been removed, the terminalserver will works great in real hd evironment.
I had send a mail to Klaus Knopper. I hope he can send the harddisk-installed script part version to me, but he did not understand my poor English
:cry: :oops: .
I hope you can get the script that had been removed. You can describe clear with English. If you get the script, I hope you can send to me a copy. My E-mail: mzymmqm@163.net.

Thanks very much.

:oops: :cry: I'm sad for my poor English. :oops: :cry:

Hey Omak I wish I spoke as much Chinese as you do English! You're doing a good job.

Before I read your post I had already planned on sending an email to Klaus (and the developer list) tomorrow. I will still do it. Also I plan on tring to work on things myself a bit tomorrow as well. I will post if I hear bakc from him or make any headway myself.

Thanks for the tip.

Adam

Omak
05-28-2003, 01:53 PM
aay
:shock: I analysis the file -- linuxrc, and I found the terminal client mount "NFSserverIP:/cdrom/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX" as "/KNOPPIX". So, I think if we can mount hd-install root directory "/" as "/KNOPPIX", mybe we could success. But when I worked with my idea, I found a new problem that initd couldn't run success. :x

Mybe, my idea is a way. Should you try it??

:oops: I works hard, but my English still poor. Sorry :oops:

Omak
05-30-2003, 05:58 AM
I find a way to solved this problem. But not the best way.
1,Boot from Knoppix CD with "knoppix 2".
2,Then copy the KNOPPIX files to your NFS directory: cp -Rp /KNOPPIX/* /mnt/hda1/cdrom
(if your hd-intalled the KNOPPIX on hda1)
3, reboot system without KNOPPIX CD
4, chroot /cdrom
5, remaster knoppix
6, Ctl+D return to hd-installed knoppix
7, edit /usr/share/knoppix-terminalserver/templates/miniroot/linuxrc, mount NFSDIR as /KNOPPIX, edit relation lines.
8, run knoppix-terminalserver
9, boot client
10, You will found it works great.
This way too waste hd space.
I'll find other way to solve this problem.

aay
06-03-2003, 05:08 AM
Hmm. This is certainly a soluiton of sorts, but apart from the fact that the terminal server is now running from the hd it's not really that different from the cd (since this method just coppies the image). I'm till looking for a way to install so that we can add programs and the like. Keep posting ideas and i'll do the same.

Omak
06-03-2003, 06:37 AM
aay wrote
Hmm. This is certainly a soluiton of sorts, but apart from the fact that the terminal server is now running from the hd it's not really that different from the cd (since this method just coppies the image). I'm till looking for a way to install so that we can add programs and the like. Keep posting ideas and i'll do the same.

This method not as same as copy the KNOPPIX image file into the directory /cdrom/KNOPPIX/. If coppies KNOPPIX image, we couldn't insatll new applications, but this method can. I had installed mplay, mozilla firebird, realone, etc. And I had customed desktop, look-feel, style, splash screen, and so on. So, this is a good soluiton. The client can works great. The shortcome is too waste hd space. Of course, I believe that have another way to solve this problem, and better than this one.

uteck
06-09-2003, 09:25 PM
5, remaster knoppix
7, edit /usr/share/knoppix-terminalserver/templates/miniroot/linuxrc, mount NFSDIR as /KNOPPIX, edit relation lines.
I am haveing some problems with steps 5 and 7, could you give a bit more detail, please. How do I 'remaster knoppix'? And I was unsure what lines exactly to change in step 7.

Thanks.

Omak
06-11-2003, 07:34 AM
5, remaster knoppix
7, edit /usr/share/knoppix-terminalserver/templates/miniroot/linuxrc, mount NFSDIR as /KNOPPIX, edit relation lines.
I am haveing some problems with steps 5 and 7, could you give a bit more detail, please. How do I 'remaster knoppix'? And I was unsure what lines exactly to change in step 7.

Thanks.


Ok! Give details. Maybe you could hard understand my poor English. :oops:

steps 5, remaster knoppix means you config evironment, install new applications, personalize like change styles, change icons, etc.

steps 7,
edit /usr/share/knoppix-terminalserver/templates/miniroot/linuxrc

you should change these lines:
1.lines from 242 to 252 you'll find
# if we have an NFSDIR, try mounting it
if [ -n "$NFSDIR" ]; then
echo -n "${CRE}${BLUE}Trying to mount CD on" \
"${MAGENTA}$NFSDIR${BLUE}...${NORMAL}"
/static/mount -t nfs -o \
ro,rsize=8192,wsize=8192,hard,intr$SECUREOPTIONS \
"${NFSDIR}" /cdrom > /dev/null 2>&1 && MOUNTED="yes"

# unsuccessful? Blank out NFSDIR and see if pump does better
[ -z "$MOUNTED" ] && echo "${RED}Failed.${NORMAL}" && NFSDIR=
fi

replace with this, you should see the red part
# if we have an NFSDIR, try mounting it
if [ -n "$NFSDIR" ]; then
echo -n "${CRE}${BLUE}Trying to mount CD on" \
"${MAGENTA}$NFSDIR${BLUE}...${NORMAL}"
/static/mount -t nfs -o \
ro,rsize=8192,wsize=8192,hard,intr$SECUREOPTIONS \
"${NFSDIR}" /KNOPPIX > /dev/null 2>&1 && MOUNTED="yes"

# unsuccessful? Blank out NFSDIR and see if pump does better
[ -z "$MOUNTED" ] && echo "${RED}Failed.${NORMAL}" && NFSDIR=
fi


2.lines from 304 to 321 you'll find
FOUND_KNOPPIX=""
if test -f /cdrom/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX
then
echo -n "${CRE} ${GREEN}Accessing KNOPPIX CDROM image at ${MAGENTA}$NFSDIR${GREEN}...${NORMAL}"
FOUND_KNOPPIX="true"
else
dropshell
fi

# Harddisk-installed script part version has been removed
# (KNOPPIX can be booted directly from HD now).

# DEBUG
# echo "6" > /proc/sys/kernel/printk

insmod /modules/cloop.o file=/cdrom/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX
mountit /dev/cloop /KNOPPIX "-o ro$SECUREOPTIONS" || FOUND_KNOPPIX=""


replace with this, you should see the red part
FOUND_KNOPPIX=""
#if test -f /cdrom/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX
#then
echo -n "${CRE} ${GREEN}Accessing KNOPPIX CDROM image at ${MAGENTA}$NFSDIR${GREEN}...${NORMAL}"
FOUND_KNOPPIX="true"
#else
#dropshell
#fi

# Harddisk-installed script part version has been removed
# (KNOPPIX can be booted directly from HD now).

# DEBUG
# echo "6" > /proc/sys/kernel/printk

#insmod /modules/cloop.o file=/cdrom/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX
#mountit /dev/cloop /KNOPPIX "-o ro$SECUREOPTIONS" || FOUND_KNOPPIX=""

At last, save it.
Now if you start knoppix-terminalserver, it would work great.

uteck
06-16-2003, 08:13 PM
Thanks for the instructions, I have it working now.
Now I just have one question about installing programs. Do I install them as I normally would, or do I have to chroot to cdrom and install the packages there?

Beakie
06-17-2003, 03:58 PM
Hello everybody!

I have used Knoppix for some time now, and is very impressed by the ClusterKnoppix idea. I am a biologist and looking for a simple way to create Linux clusters for biological computation, and ClusterKnoppix seems to be just right for me :). Reading your discussion here, there seem to be some difficulties to do a successful harddisk installation and maintain terminal server and openmosix funtionality if working with an "expanded" (not image) system.

I was just wondering how it turned out for you guys/gals - did everything work out just fine? Are the clusters running well? Any problems installing new software with apt-get? Moreover, does anybody of you have time/energy to write a brief "step-by-step" summary on how you did it? Or even better, writing a script that does it?

Have a nice day!

Regards,

Beakie

RockMumbles
06-17-2003, 05:57 PM
I did a ClusterKnoppix hd install and the openmosix clustering works fine, it's just the knoppixterminalserver that is set up to only function while running from CD.

The only problem I've had, is KDE crashes quite often while running the openmosix kernel (etc.), if I use icewm, xfce, or fluxbox it seems to run fine. I have added the openmosix kernel to a debian unstable box and clustered the two quite easily. The only gotcha is ClusterKnoppix uses a newer openmosix tools package and requires NO configuration, on the system where I added the openmosix packages I had to configure the cluster manually. Which is pretty easy. I think I already posted what I had to do to get that running.

Are you planning to install to all machines or have one install and run the others from CD?

If you are willing to run each machine with it's own cd, clustering will operate just fine.

HTH

--rock

Omak
06-18-2003, 07:52 AM
Thanks for the instructions, I have it working now.
Now I just have one question about installing programs. Do I install them as I normally would, or do I have to chroot to cdrom and install the packages there?

Yes, you should chroot to cdrom for install packages.

Beakie
06-18-2003, 11:01 AM
Hello RockMumbles and others!

Thanks for your response. :)

When you run from the HD-install, do you run knoppix as the compressed image or as the "expanded" system - in other words, can you simply edit config files in the system and add applications with apt-get as you do with a "normal" Debian?

KDE not running well eh? That's a shame. :(

Ok, I will here briefly explain the (to me) ideal layout of the cluster I plan to construct and let you guys see if it is possible to do that, according to the difficulties mentioned above.

One computer shall be the "master node" (aka server :-) ), from which the openmosix cluster can be monitored and controlled. This is the only box with a HD and a CD player. The other nodes are diskless and shall boot into clusterknoppix over the network using the service provided by the server and then join the cluster. As far as I understand, this should be able to do more or less automatically - once the server is up, the bios of the nodes should be set to boot from the LAN, right? The server is the only node that actually "contains" any software.

However, I do not want to run the clusterknoppix server from a CD for various reasons. 1. Program latency and spin-down effects when running from CD. 2. Occupied CD-drive. 3. No ability to update files, programs and other aspects of the OS.

I want one "Debianized" HD-install on the server and run the others off the network (which, most importantly, saves me from buying CD and HD drives).

For this I need to retain the function of the terminalserver, don't I? Or maybe I have misunderstood this. The problem seems to be to be able to retain the function while at the same time having a "normal" (not CD-image on a HD-disk) installation of ClusterKnoppix.

I can not figure out how to explain this in a better way, so I hope someone of you understand.

Do you think this is possible to do with ClusterKnoppix, with relatively "little" hacking/manual configuration from my part, or should I try to construct this from scratch with Debian or Gentoo?

The latter requires setting up hardware detection, openmosix and lan-booting and dynamical node-joining manually I guess. With the risk of distracting from the problems above, I think have to put this potential cluster idea into its context. The main points are that this is going to be a scientific cluster that 1) can be administrated easily and not only by me/geeks, 2) that can be constructed from cheep nodes - diskless AMD rack nodes can cost as little as about 500 dollars/euro, 3) expanded (and "heterogenized") when budget allows for it, and finally 4) crunch numbers effectively. Minimal administration and maximal fun :wink:

Were it not for the shortcomings mentioned above, ClusterKnoppix seems just VERY VERY RIGHT for the task. :)

Did you read all of this? I'm impressed!
:wink:

RockMumbles
06-19-2003, 12:22 AM
For this I need to retain the function of the terminalserver, don't I?
Yes!

--rock

uteck
06-19-2003, 03:51 PM
One computer shall be the "master node" (aka server ), from which the openmosix cluster can be monitored and controlled. This is the only box with a HD and a CD player. The other nodes are diskless and shall boot into clusterknoppix over the network using the service provided by the server and then join the cluster. As far as I understand, this should be able to do more or less automatically - once the server is up, the bios of the nodes should be set to boot from the LAN, right? The server is the only node that actually "contains" any software.
This is what I am setting up. Following the instructions posted by Omak(Thanks again :lol: ) I have 1 master with a hard drive installed version, and now 2 others that boot from it over the network. I had to use the rom-o-matic to make floppys for them to boot off of so they will boot from the network. (Network booting is not an option for their BIOS) I might try adding rom chips to the NIC's but not now.
I have not installed any additional sofware yet on the /cdrom/knoppix work around, but I am confident that it will work since Omak has not been wrong yet.
Since the machines can only hold 64MB of ram I am going to try installing a 1GB hard drive so they can use it as swap, and to store setings. A Pentium 200 can take while to boot.

dolphin
06-19-2003, 06:21 PM
mm interesting.. I'll add this as an option to my next clusterknoppix release ;)

--Wim

Beakie
06-20-2003, 02:40 PM
hello again guys/gals,

nice to see that topology working for you uteck, and that Wim has taken a look at this. and kudos to Omak! now I feel confident to persuade my supervisor to buy the hardware ;). Short question about swappig - do your nodes swap in a virtual RAM swap or do they access the harddrive of the server to swap?

I have a million questions about the ClusterKnoppix-OpenMosix cluster, but I am afraid that they are a bit too off-topic to be accepted here. Maybe I should migrate to another forum somewhere? But you all seem very nice and helpful, so I will give it a shot.

When booting the nodes off the LAN in CK, is "cluster performance" (in this case; program loading and thread migration) limited by network, harddrive, memory or processor speed? I guess any of these could be bottlenecks, but, for instance, is a 100MBit network sufficient for say 10 2GHz nodes with 333MHz memory interface? Can this question even be asked? :?:

I have not yet tried CK myself, but is the SSH-serverscript found in Knoppix still around in CK?

Have a nice midsummer's eve! (Pseudo-kinky viking holiday in Sweden)

RockMumbles
06-20-2003, 03:34 PM
From what I've been told
they access the harddrive of the server to swap
that's why a small swap hd would be nice addition.

Are these computers going to be on a separate network? The reason I ask is at home where I have a linux router with dhcp running I CAN use the terminalserver, but at school where we have a win2K network I cannot use the terminalserver because of problems on the win2k network with its dhcp server.

--rock

uteck
06-20-2003, 04:26 PM
I formated the 1 GB drive as DOS, but the computer booting from the mosix terminal server still does not mount it as a swap drive. I will have to try adding a dos drive to the server and see it that dose it. Or perhaps that mesage about dos drives is not applicable to the terminal servers?

anonp
06-30-2003, 10:19 AM
Hi all,

I am also trying to get Knoppix Terminal Server to run off my HD and also be able to customize it. I have followed Omak's direction but I am encountering problems.

1. The client complains that the /linuxrc: 10.0.0.240:/cdrom: not found

2. then, things like cp, mv, etc cannot be found...

I am using 3.2-2003-6-6.

Can someone pls post their linuxrc? Any idea what's wrong? Pls help.

Thanks.

Omak
07-05-2003, 03:10 PM
Hi all,

I am also trying to get Knoppix Terminal Server to run off my HD and also be able to customize it. I have followed Omak's direction but I am encountering problems.

1. The client complains that the /linuxrc: 10.0.0.240:/cdrom: not found

2. then, things like cp, mv, etc cannot be found...

I am using 3.2-2003-6-6.

Can someone pls post their linuxrc? Any idea what's wrong? Pls help.

Thanks.

Please read posts one by one from the first one. You'll found the right way.

pooh_
10-09-2003, 12:42 PM
Omak,

Interesting steps you've made here, compliments.

I would really like to know if you have further 'fine tuned' your idea's and steps.
Are you still working on it ?

Chez Chez Nin

devlynd
01-15-2004, 06:05 PM
Any further word on if there is a solution to get Knoppix-terminal working after doing knxhd-install? I'm going to try the work-around listed above, but I was wondering if anybody has made any headway into getting it to work properly.


Thanks!

-Devlyn

anonp
11-23-2004, 07:10 AM
The work around mentioned above works well with Knoppix 3.4. However, when I try to do the same thing with Knoppix 3.6, I get this error:

"Could not find ramdisk image: miniroot.gz" at boot:

Does anyone know what is wrong?

Thanks.

Joaquin Ferrero
01-24-2005, 08:27 PM
Go to http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=74629#74629

cvmyawg
06-01-2006, 11:00 PM
Sorry to revive this topic, but I need some help on this..

Have a diskless cluster going. Running ClusterKnoppix and openmosixview....

Here's what I've done so far.

Master node has the HD install of clusterknoppix and I've run knoppix-terminalserver. I copied the the KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX to /cdrom/

so it has /cdrom/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX

Now, when I turn on the slave nodes on, they get to booting but then I get the:

"Can't find KNOPPIX filesystem, sorry."

error..

Sorry, I'm not exactly..... experienced.... in Linux. So any help is GREATLY appreciated.

EDIT: all motherboards are the exact same.