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Tortoise
05-28-2003, 05:25 PM
I have an fstab file from a Mandrake installation that works well, and always had trouble with my Knoppix one. I like Knoppix better than Mandrake, but is it a problem to keep my Madrake fstab, or will that shag things?
Thanks

rickenbacherus
05-28-2003, 08:29 PM
Depends- are your partitions and mount points the same? Just keep this in mind: When you change something like /etc/fstab before you do anything back it up- you can always restore it that way if you hose something up.

Tortoise
05-28-2003, 08:34 PM
Depends- are your partitions and mount points the same? Just keep this in mind: When you change something like /etc/fstab before you do anything back it up- you can always restore it that way if you hose something up.

The partitions are the same, but the mount points were never right under Knoppix, which is why I want to use the MAndrake FSTAB file. Is that all there is to it though, or is there another file that describes the drives?

rickenbacherus
05-28-2003, 09:44 PM
The partitions are the same, but the mount points were never right under Knoppix, which is why I want to use the MAndrake FSTAB file. Is that all there is to it though, or is there another file that describes the drives?

You can mount any of your drives to any mount point you like, example:

mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/stupid

As long as you have a mount point named 'stupid' it will mount there. Let's say your fstab looks like this:

# /etc/fstab: filesystem table.
#
# filesystem mountpoint type options dump pass
/dev/hda1 / ext3 defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1
/dev/hda2 none swap sw 0 0
proc /proc proc defaults 0 0
/dev/fd0 /floppy vfat defaults,user,noauto,showexec,umask=022 0 0
/dev/cdrom /cdrom iso9660 defaults,ro,user,noexec,auto 0 0

The first part '/dev/hda1' for example is the block device or filesystem you want to mount. The second part- '/' is the mount point that fstab will mount /dev/hda1 to.

Another example: '/dev/cdrom' is the block device- '/cdrom' is the mount point but if '/cdrom' doesn't exist then it can't be mounted there right?

Do this:


cd /mnt
ls

The screen output lists your mount points. You can make mount points if you need to like this:


# mkdir /mnt/cdrom

Now do this:


cd /mnt
ls

You should see your new mount point listed. If you need some help getting /etc/fstab to work post it. Also post your mount points. Just copying over your fstab from another distro likely won't work- you'll still have to make some adjustments but it's not that hard once you get the idea of mount points.

fearlessrogue
05-29-2003, 02:15 AM
My fstab looks like:
# /etc/fstab: filesystem table.
#
# filesystem mountpoint type options dump pass
/dev/hda1 / ext3 defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1
/dev/hda3 none swap sw 0 0
/dev/hda2 /music ext3 defaults 2 1
/dev/hda4 /home/rob/stuff ext3 defaults 2 1
proc /proc proc defaults 0 0
/dev/fd0 /floppy vfat defaults,user,noauto,showexec,umask=022 0 0
/dev/cdrom /cdrom iso9660 defaults,ro,user,noexec,noauto 0 0

rickenbacherus
05-29-2003, 03:16 AM
Do this:


cd /mnt
ls

Post the output.

Tortoise
05-29-2003, 09:49 PM
Do this:


cd /mnt
ls

Post the output.

knoppix@Milo:~$ cd /mnt
knoppix@Milo:mnt$ ls
hda1 hda2 hda3 hda6 sda

rickenbacherus
05-29-2003, 10:05 PM
Tortoise-
Now we know that you have the mount points:
hda1 hda2 hda3 hda6 sda

Your fstab needs to use these mount points. If you need different mount points then make them like so:

cd /mnt
mkdir cdrom

I just used cdrom as an example but surely you'll want a mount point named cdrom right? You can make any mount point you want.

After creating /mnt/cdrom do this:

ls

You should now have these mount points:
hda1 hda2 hda3 hda6 sda cdrom

Post your fstab if you need more help.

Tortoise
05-29-2003, 10:13 PM
Ok, so I understand how to create mountpoints now, but as far as I can see they are just directories which point to a physical drive or something like one.
How do I know what my real drives are called ie, I can create mountpoint for my two cdrws, but unless they point to the real things, they won't work - is there a command to tellme what linux is calling my different drives so that I can hook them up?
I am having the same trouble with my usb floppy, which I also cannot find!
Thanks for the help,

rickenbacherus
05-29-2003, 10:49 PM
How do I know what my real drives are called ie,

dmesg | less


I can create mountpoint for my two cdrws, but unless they point to the real things, they won't work - is there a command to tellme what linux is calling my different drives so that I can hook them up?

If you have cdr or cdrw drives then you'll need to use SCSI emulation. Since you booted the Knoppix cd and installed I'm sure it is already set up that way. Do this:

cat /proc/scsi/scsi

Now you should see your cdrw drives. Actually you'll see everything on the SCSI BUS.

0,0,0 - CDRW
0,1,0 - DVD

(Those are just examples- your mileage may vary) You can call your drives anything you like which makes things alot easier. Here's how:

ln -s /dev/scd0 /dev/cdrw

Translated literally ln link -s symbolicly/dev/scd0 the actual name of your cdrw /dev/cdrw the name of your new symbolic link.

Now for the test to see what /dev/cdrw really points to do this:
ls -al /dev/cdrw

It should now indicate that /dev/dvdrw is actually nothing more than a symbolic link to the actual device of /dev/scd0


I am having the same trouble with my usb floppy, which I also cannot find!
Thanks for the help,

OK USB floppy should be 1,0,0 on the SCSI bus. Do this:

cat /proc/scsi/scsi

-OR-

cdrecord -scanbus

to be certain.

Then do this:

ln -s /dev/sda1 /dev/floppy

Again then:

ls -al /dev/floppy

Should tell you that /dev/floppy is really just a symbolic link (a representation if you will) of /dev/sda1

Make sense?

Tortoise
05-29-2003, 11:44 PM
Well, thanks for this, I did all of that, but I am still having trouble finding them, they don't appear on anything that I can find - sorry to be slow on this, but I still can't work out how to access them.
Here is my fstab, I am fairly sure this just isn't set up right...
Thanks,



# /etc/fstab: filesystem table.
#
# filesystem mountpoint type options dump pass
/dev/hda3 / ext3 defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1
/dev/hda5 none swap sw 0 0

proc /proc proc defaults 0 0
/dev/floppy /floppy vfat defaults,user,showexec,umask=022 0 0
/dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom iso9660 defaults,ro,user,noexec 0 0
/dev/dvd /mnt/dvd iso9660 defaults,ro,user,noexec 0 0
# partitions found by Knoppix
/dev/hda1 /mnt/hda1 ntfs auto,users,exec,ro,uid=knoppix,gid=knoppix 0 0
#/dev/hda2 /mnt/hda2 vfat noauto,users,exec,umask=000,uid=knoppix,gid=knoppi x 0 0
#/dev/hda3 /mnt/hda3 ext3 noauto,users,exec 0 0
/dev/hda6 /mnt/hda6 vfat auto,users,exec,umask=000,uid=knoppix,gid=knoppix 0 0
# Added by KNOPPIX
/dev/hda2 /mnt/hda2 vfat noauto,users,exec,umask=000,uid=knoppix,gid=knoppi x 0 0
# Added by KNOPPIX

Tortoise
05-29-2003, 11:59 PM
OK, so I have the DVD/CDRW working now, as /mnt/dvd, but CDRW also links to that. I am confused as to how to distinguish the devices, since every mountpoint is pointing to the same thing.

I'm please to have got anything to point to anything, but what it says is the dvd is actually the cdrw... Arrghhh....

rickenbacherus
05-30-2003, 12:10 AM
# /etc/fstab: filesystem table.
#
# filesystem mountpoint type options dump pass
/dev/hda3 / ext3 defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1
/dev/hda5 none swap sw 0 0

proc /proc proc defaults 0 0
/dev/floppy /floppy vfat defaults,user,showexec,umask=022 0 0
/dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom iso9660 defaults,ro,user,noexec 0 0
/dev/dvd /mnt/dvd iso9660 defaults,ro,user,noexec 0 0
# partitions found by Knoppix
/dev/hda1 /mnt/hda1 ntfs auto,users,exec,ro,uid=knoppix,gid=knoppix 0 0
#/dev/hda2 /mnt/hda2 vfat noauto,users,exec,umask=000,uid=knoppix,gid=knoppi x 0 0
#/dev/hda3 /mnt/hda3 ext3 noauto,users,exec 0 0
/dev/hda6 /mnt/hda6 vfat auto,users,exec,umask=000,uid=knoppix,gid=knoppix 0 0
# Added by KNOPPIX
/dev/hda2 /mnt/hda2 vfat noauto,users,exec,umask=000,uid=knoppix,gid=knoppi x 0 0
# Added by KNOPPIX

You currently have these mount points right?
hda1 hda2 hda3 hda6 sda
You need to make some more mount points my friend. Look closely at your fstab- the format is like this:

filesystem mountpoint type

So, applying that to the following line from your fstab

/dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom iso9660 defaults,ro,user,noexec 0 0


/dev/cdrom is your filesystem

/mnt/cdrom is your mount point

iso9660 is the type

But you don't have /dev/cdrom OR /mnt/cdrom do you? You just need to make the symbolic link to your cdrom like this:


ln -s /dev/scd0 /dev/cdrom
ls -al /dev/cdrom

What is /dev/cdrom really pointing to now? Post it please.

You also need to create the mount point /mnt/cdrom. fstab is trying to mount /dev/cdrom to a mount point that does not exist. That'll never work. As root, do this:


mkdir /mnt/cdrom
cd /mnt
ls

Now your mount points should look like this:
hda1 hda2 hda3 hda6 sda cdrom
Post your mount points please.

If everything above went smoothly now fstab will mount /dev/cdrom (which is actually /dev/scd0)on the mount point /mnt/cdrom.

If everything above went smoothly......
As root, do this:

mount -t auto /dev/cdrom
cd /mnt/cdrom
ls

Also let me remind you that you CANNOT mount an audio cd because it has no filesystem on it. Additionally, you can't mount an empty drive because............there's no filesystem in an empty drive either. So anytime you want to mount a cdrom you need to have a data cd in i the drive.

rickenbacherus
05-30-2003, 12:13 AM
OK, so I have the DVD/CDRW working now, as /mnt/dvd, but CDRW also links to that. I am confused as to how to distinguish the devices, since every mountpoint is pointing to the same thing.

I'm please to have got anything to point to anything, but what it says is the dvd is actually the cdrw... Arrghhh....

Ah yes the joys of symlinks. As root do this:


ls -al /dev/dvd
ls -al /dev/cdrom

Post the output please. You're almost there. Soon you''ll understand- fear not!

Tortoise
05-30-2003, 12:27 AM
ls -al /dev/dvd -> /dev/cdrom
ls -al /dev/cdrom -> sr0
ls -al /dev/cdrw -> /dev/scd0

Tortoise
05-30-2003, 12:32 AM
[quote=Tortoise]


ln -s /dev/scd0 /dev/cdrom
ls -al /dev/cdrom

What is /dev/cdrom really pointing to now? Post it please.


OK, so:

ln -s /dev/scd0 /dev/cdrom
[ln: '/dev/cdrom': File exists

ls -al /dev/cdrom
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 May 28 23:24 /dev/cdrom -> sr0

rickenbacherus
05-30-2003, 12:38 AM
It looks as though I may have confused you. :D

As root do this:
ls -al /dev/scd0
ls -al /dev/scd1

Then, still as root do this:

rm /dev/dvd
rm /dev/cdrw
rm /dev/cdrom

It will ask if you're sure- yes.

ln -s /dev/scd0 /dev/cdrom
ls -al /dev/cdrom
ln -s /dev/scd1 /dev/dvd
ls -al /dev/dvd

Post the entire screen please.

Tortoise
05-30-2003, 12:38 AM
[quote=Tortoise]


mkdir /mnt/cdrom
cd /mnt
ls

Now your mount points should look like this:
hda1 hda2 hda3 hda6 sda cdrom
Post your mount points please.


cd /mnt
ls

cdrom cdrw dvd floppy hda1 hda2 hda3 hda6 sda

rickenbacherus
05-30-2003, 12:40 AM
cd /mnt
ls

cdrom cdrw dvd floppy hda1 hda2 hda3 hda6 sda

Excellent!-You're on the home stretch.

Tortoise
05-30-2003, 12:46 AM
Sorry, really stupid question, I am in a shell as root, I select copy text, and then when I go to paste it into Knoppix, I there is no paste. How do I do that?

Tortoise
05-30-2003, 12:48 AM
I deleted all the ones you indicated to, now /dev/cdrom -> /dev/scd0
and /dev/dvd ->scd1

rickenbacherus
05-30-2003, 12:55 AM
Sorry, really stupid question, I am in a shell as root, I select copy text, and then when I go to paste it into Knoppix, I there is no paste. How do I do that?

Once you highlight text in the terminal it should already be on the clip board- you don't necessarily need to select 'Copy'.

If you're using Konsole there is a menu at the top- select copy. I forget if CTL+V will paste or not. I use my middle mouse button to paste.

Tortoise
05-30-2003, 12:59 AM
I'm stuck on that one, do you need all of it, or do you have enough info?
Thanks so much for your patience,

rickenbacherus
05-30-2003, 01:25 AM
I'm stuck on that one, do you need all of it, or do you have enough info?

I don't need it all. If you're using KDE then there is a cool program called klipper. It can hold multiple entries and you can see what's on the clipboard. Just type klipper in a console or select it from the K menu (I don't remember where.)


Thanks so much for your patience,

No problem- eadz has promised a new car to the first person to hit 800 posts! I'm almost there eadz!! (It better not be a hotwheels car either!!!). :P


I deleted all the ones you indicated to, now /dev/cdrom -> /dev/scd0
and /dev/dvd ->scd1

Right on man- that's what I wanted to see. Do you see now that your drives in effect have new names? Why do you need to do this? Well, most Linux apps are not going to look for /dev/hdb or /dev/scd0 they are looking for /dev/cdrom and /dev/dvd (symlinks). That way everything is universal. Can you see how this makes things easier? I realize it's a little confusing at first but I can clearly see that you're already hooked on Linux.

Oh yeah- almost forgot, do this:

ls -al /dev/scd0
ls -al /dev/scd1

Of course post the output.

-------------------------------------------------------------

BTW- there are different terminals not just Konsole and you don't have to open a 'root' terminal, just become root in whatever terminal you like-like this:

su
<password>

Then you can do:

whoami

It should tell you that you are root. Maybe one of the other terminals is easier to copy/paste to and from. It's something you'll definitely need to learn to do in the very near future.

Tortoise
05-30-2003, 01:36 AM
ls -al /dev/scd0
ls -al /dev/scd1

Of course post the output.


OK, still having trouble with copying and pasting, but after ls -al /dev/scd0
brw-rw---- 1 root cdrom 11, 0 May 31 2001 /dev/scd0

ls -al /dev/scd1
brw-rw---- 1 root cdrom 11, 1 May 31 2001 /dev/scd1

Tortoise
05-30-2003, 01:44 AM
root@Milo:/home/knoppix# ls -al /dev/scd0
brw-rw---- 1 root cdrom 11, 0 May 31 2001 /dev/scd0
root@Milo:/home/knoppix# ls -al /dev/scd1
brw-rw---- 1 root cdrom 11, 1 May 31 2001 /dev/scd1
root@Milo:/home/knoppix#

Ahah! Here we go!

Tortoise
05-30-2003, 01:56 AM
Wehe! I've got it, thanks so much, you deserve the car! Thanks!
You're right, I am hooked, despite the quirks and need to fiddle with everything, I don't think I'll be going back to the evil empire...
Thanks again!

rickenbacherus
05-30-2003, 01:58 AM
Right on- you got the copy/pasting action going on.

Do this:


ln -s /dev/sr0 /dev/scd0
ln -s /dev/sr1 /dev/scd1

So try to mount a drive now and see what happens.

Remember: you must be root to mount a drive and you cannot mount an empty drive or an audio cd so put a data cd in your cdrom and do this:

mount -t auto /dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom
cd /mnt/cdrom
ls

You should see whatever it is that's on the disk. Now do this:

cd
umount /dev/cdrom

Notice that it is not uNmount- there is no n- it's umount. You should always remember to umount anything that you have mounted. How do you find out what's mounted?--You already know:

mount

How do you umount everything?

umount -a

Don't worry- it won't umount anything that's in use by the system.
Let me know how it goes.

Tortoise
05-30-2003, 02:10 AM
Great, that works, and I have desktop shortcuts too, although I can't unmount the drive from the desktop? Seems odd, but I suppose that's because I'm not root. Is there an easy way to be root temporarily from the KDE GUI?
Also, how to I delete spurious mountpoints? rm tells me they are not files, so I can't delete them. I'm guessing there is a corresponding directory delete command.
Thanks again for all your help, Linux's quirkiness is made up for by it's supportive community!

senorian
05-30-2003, 07:03 PM
Dear rickenbacherus
You posts are always educational but this thread is very, very clear and detailed.
Please keep on with the good work AND, if at all possible, collect and collate your various instructions and post so that one can search them. There is a tremendous amount of very poorly written (i. condensed) Linux info on the web.
We, the newbies of the world, desperately need a lot more of your quality instructions.
Many thanks

Tortoise
05-30-2003, 07:25 PM
Hurrah!
I appreciate the handholding, but don't want you to have to do this for everyone who is having trouble getting their head round this - if I have a few moments I may try to do this myself so we have it from an idiot's persepective - it seems fair to contribute in this way, since it was my problem that was solved.

rickenbacherus
05-30-2003, 08:15 PM
Also, how to I delete spurious mountpoints? rm tells me they are not files, so I can't delete them. I'm guessing there is a corresponding directory delete command.


man rm

rickenbacherus
05-30-2003, 08:27 PM
Great, that works, and I have desktop shortcuts too, although I can't unmount the drive from the desktop? Seems odd, but I suppose that's because I'm not root. Is there an easy way to be root temporarily from the KDE GUI?


man chmod

Stephen
05-30-2003, 09:05 PM
Great, that works, and I have desktop shortcuts too, although I can't unmount the drive from the desktop? Seems odd, but I suppose that's because I'm not root. Is there an easy way to be root temporarily from the KDE GUI?

Check for user in the line refering to the drive in the /etc/fstab. If the user is in there you should be able to access and umount the drive from the desktop icon there is no need to mount it as root.

Tortoise
05-31-2003, 04:41 AM
Dear rickenbacherus
You posts are always educational but this thread is very, very clear and detailed.
Please keep on with the good work AND, if at all possible, collect and collate your various instructions and post so that one can search them. There is a tremendous amount of very poorly written (i. condensed) Linux info on the web.
We, the newbies of the world, desperately need a lot more of your quality instructions.
Many thanks

Maybe this will help, feel free to edit it if you feel like it.
Tortoise

The following is a condensed summary of advice given by Rickenbacherus, Stephen and Aay to Tortoise, a linux newby having trouble getting to grips with CDRW / DVD drives under Knoppix. Senorian suggested that it might be useful to post this in an easier to use fashion. I am grateful for the assistance of these folks, but errors are my own. Tortoise.

Tortoise's problem was caused by him not understanding the relationship between the name that Knoppix gives to each drive by default, and the arbitrary mount points that the user allocated to each drive. He was distressed that while the CD edition correctly identified all his hard drive partitions, and his CDRW/DVD, as well as his CD/DVD drive, the hard disc install seemed to do none of this, and, indeed, put icons on the desktop which produced errors when they were clicked.

It turns out that you can mount any of your drives to any mount point you like, example:
mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/stupid
As long as you have a mount point named 'stupid' it will mount there.
A mountpoint is simply a directory inside /mnt/
You can see what mountpoints you have by opening a shell and typing:
cd /mnt
ls
This gives you the contents of the directory /mnt, which are your mountpoints, that is to say, the place in your directory structure where these drives will be mounted.
You can make new ones (call them whatever you like for the moment, but see below for conventions on naming):
mkdir /mnt/cdrom
This should create a mountpoint called cdrom, you may get an error if you already have a mountpoint called that.
Type:
cd /mnt
ls
again, and you should see the new mountpoint there. Of course, now you have to mount something there, and you have to know what the thing you want to mount is called. You can mount anything to any mountpoint, but you are most likely to want to mount your drives to a relatively descriptive mountpoint for clarity.

The place where this matching up takes place is in the file /etc/fstab, the FileSystemTABle. Open this as root (if you intend to edit it) by going to the K menu, and opening a shell as root, you will need to enter the root password to do this. The type:
kedit /etc/fstab
to open the file in kedit

Let's say your fstab looks like this:
# /etc/fstab: filesystem table.
# filesystem mountpoint type options dump pass
/dev/hda1 / ext3 defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1
/dev/hda2 none swap sw 0 0
proc /proc proc defaults 0 0
/dev/fd0 /floppy vfat defaults,user,noauto,showexec,umask=022 0 0
/dev/cdrom /cdrom iso9660 defaults,ro,user,noexec,auto 0 0

# signs mean comment, and the computer will ignore anything coming after them. If there is a # in front of anything, bear in mind it will do nothing.
The first part ('/dev/hda1' in the example above) is the block device or filesystem you want to mount. This is the name that linux gives to your device. The second part '/' is the mount point that fstab will mount (e.g. /dev/hda1) to. As I said, you can mount any filesystem to any mount point.
Another example: '/dev/cdrom' is the block device- '/cdrom' is the mount point but if '/cdrom' doesn't exist then it can't be mounted there right? So we need to create mount points for all the devices listed in the /dev/ secions, as above.

In case the drives are not listed in the fstab, and to take a look at what linux thinks you have connected in the way of cdrw/dvd drives, you'll need to use SCSI emulation. Since you booted the Knoppix cd and installed it I'm sure it is already set up that way. Do this:

cat /proc/scsi/scsi

Now you should see your cdrw drives. Actually you'll see everything on the SCSI BUS.

0,0,0 - CDRW
0,1,0 - DVD

(Those are just examples- your mileage may vary) You can call your drives anything you like which makes things a lot easier. Here's how:

ln -s /dev/scd0 /dev/cdrw

Translated literally ln link -s symbolicly/dev/scd0 the actual name of your cdrw /dev/cdrw the name of your new symbolic link.

Now for the test to see what /dev/cdrw really points to do this:
ls -al /dev/cdrw

It should now indicate that /dev/cdrw is actually nothing more than a symbolic link to the actual device of /dev/scd0

Now look closely at your fstab- the format is like this:

filesystem mountpoint type
So, applying that to the following line from your fstab

/dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom iso9660 defaults,ro,user,noexec 0 0

/dev/cdrom is your filesystem
/mnt/cdrom is your mount point
iso9660 is the type
But if you don't have /dev/cdrom OR /mnt/cdrom, you just need to make the symbolic link to your cdrom like this:
ln -s /dev/scd0 /dev/cdrom
ls -al /dev/cdrom
This should show you want /dev/cdrom is really pointing to now. Next make sure that you have an appropriate mountpoint to mount it on:
mkdir /mnt/cdrom
cd /mnt
ls
...and if everything above went smoothly now fstab will mount /dev/cdrom (which is actually /dev/scd0) on the mount point /mnt/cdrom.

If everything above went smoothly......
As root, do this:
mount -t auto /dev/cdrom
cd /mnt/cdrom
ls
You should see whatever it is that's on the disk. Now do this:

cd
umount /dev/cdrom

Notice that it is not uNmount- there is no n- it's umount. You should always remember to umount anything that you have mounted. How do you find out what's mounted?--You already know:

mount

How do you umount everything?

umount -a

Don't worry- it won't umount anything that's in use by the system.
Also let me remind you that you cannot mount an audio cd because it has no filesystem on it. Additionally, you can't mount an empty drive because ... ...there's no filesystem in an empty drive either. So anytime you want to mount a cdrom you need to have a data cd in the drive.
Repeat the above for each drive you are trying to set up, with the appropriate names for each one. Call the mountpoints whatever you like, but bear in mind that many programs expect the naming convention /cdrom or /dvd.
Next up, you may want to create desktop icons for these:
As an aside, harddrive icons can be created easily by running:
rebuildfstab -r as root
and then mkdesktophdicons as a normal user.
First off, delete any spurious icons that may be there, they will only sow confusion. Then,
right click on the destkop and select "Create New" and then "CD/DVD-ROM Device"
Select the "Device" tab at the top.
From the pull down menu select your CD/DVD device (in the case above it would be /dev/cdrom.
Click "Ok" at the bottom of window and then your icon should be on the desktop and working.

Ok you should be away!

rickenbacherus
05-31-2003, 02:55 PM
Please keep on with the good work AND, if at all possible, collect and collate your various instructions and post so that one can search them.

Gee wouldn't it be nice if someone could do that? ;)
Check this out. WikiWiki (http://www.knoppix.net/docs/index.php/WikiWikiWeb)

"A WikiWikiWeb is a site where everyone can collaborate on the content. The most well-known and widely used Wiki is the Portland Pattern Repository at................"

senorian
05-31-2003, 05:58 PM
Tortoise
Excellent job of collecting and collating.
Thank you (all)