No wireless

[nitsuj]

I know, I know. "Have you tried searching?"

Yes. I've searched high and low. I'm now just asking random strangers on the street if they know how to connect to the wireless network with Knoppix. And I know the question has been asked in this very forum a gazillion times. None of the answers seem to help. Either they don't directly apply, or they're over my head. I just can't figure it out. I have a Compaq V2000 with a built in Broadcom wireless card. Near as I can tell, Knopix doesn't even know the card is there. I downloaded NDISwrapper, but it's on my hard drive. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to extract it while running knoppix, and then I'm not sure what to do with it. My plan is to try to get it up and running on my laptop. If I like it, I'll commit to wiping windows off and installing a distro I haven't picked yet. Leaning towards Mandrake.

When trying to help, keep in mind, my entire Linux experience consists of playing with Knoppix for the lst 48 hours. I'm gong to need the advice dumbed down. Pretend I'm 10 years old. And learning disabled. And recovering from a head injury.

TIA

BTW, I also have a Linksys USB wireless adapter. Knoppix doesn't seem to like it any better than my on-board card.

[chip.ling]

Yes. I've searched high and low.

Then do just one more search. Scroll up to the top of this page. Click on Documentation, then click on FAQ, then scroll down a bit and click on Network FAQ.

Check out FAQ Q&A 2 and 3. It may not be a 100% fit your case but at least will give you a real time example on how to ndiswrapper a wireless driver and attempts to connect to the network.



I downloaded NDISwrapper, but it's on my hard drive. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to extract it while running knoppix, and then I'm not sure what to do with it.

You don't need to do that, Knoppix 5.1.1 already contains ndiswrapper.



BTW, I also have a Linksys USB wireless adapter. Knoppix doesn't seem to like it any better than my on-board card.

Again check out same FAQ Q&A 6.

Rgds,
Chip

[nitsuj]

I thank you for trying to help, but I'm still stuck. I'll try to explain.
From the FAQ:
"1.2.1 With Windows explorer open, on the left panel, click on c:\windows\inf folder
1.2.2 Click the "search" button
1.2.3 Click the "All files and folders" on the left panel.
1.2.4 On the "A word of phase in the file" field, enter "bcmwl5.sys" => click "search" button
1.2.5 On the right panel, it shows c:\windows\inf\oem0.inf "

None of that works. I have no "windows\inf folder. And searching for inf files doesn't result in anything even resembling the inf file listed.

Next trouble section of the FAQ:
"4.1 Keep your eyes on the info shown on the screen when the autoconfigurating devices. From both of my machines, knoppix found two network cards in my machine, i.e. eth0 and eth1. However, my Compaq n600c only have eth0 detected."

When I run the disk, it doesn't detect a card at all. I have a switch on my computer to turn on wireless. When I start the CD the switch goes off and can't be turned on. This is why I think it doesn't detect my wireless device, because it's off.

The rest of the article is pretty much over my head, but I could maybe fake it if I got past the above.

[chip.ling]

"1.2.1 With Windows explorer open, on the left panel, click on c:\windows\inf folder
1.2.2 Click the "search" button
1.2.3 Click the "All files and folders" on the left panel.
1.2.4 On the "A word of phase in the file" field, enter "bcmwl5.sys" => click "search" button
1.2.5 On the right panel, it shows c:\windows\inf\oem0.inf "

None of that works. I have no "windows\inf folder. And searching for inf files doesn't result in anything even resembling the inf file listed.


OK, that tells me you don't know much on Windows either. But that is fine. "c:\windows" is the default system directory if you install Windows XP by yourself. Anyway, some manufacturer pre-installed Windows on different drive or directory.

Microsoft calls the "c:\windows" as SystemRoot. So if you open a Command Prompt and then type in the following command


echo %SystemRoot%

and then hit the enter key, you will be able to find where your SystemRoot is located. For example: it could be "d:\winnt". If that is the case, replace all "c:\windows" to "d:\winnt" and you will be able to find out all the directories on the FAQ.

However, there is one possibility I can think of why you won't be able to find the SystemRoot: If you are using Windows Vista, then you may need to do more digging then. The FAQ I wrote only works for XP driver. I do not have Windows Vista and I am not planning to upgrade my machines in the near future. For Microsoft OS, usually I wait until the service pack 2 coming up and then it is the good timing to think about trying it.

If you are using Windows Vista, you need to find out exactly what your hardware is. Most likely Vista still have the device manager that you can check against and find out what the hardware model name and the manufacturer's name. Then you need to go to the manufacturer's web site and download the driver for XP. And extract the XP driver out instead.



Next trouble section of the FAQ:
"4.1 Keep your eyes on the info shown on the screen when the autoconfigurating devices. From both of my machines, knoppix found two network cards in my machine, i.e. eth0 and eth1. However, my Compaq n600c only have eth0 detected."

When I run the disk, it doesn't detect a card at all. I have a switch on my computer to turn on wireless. When I start the CD the switch goes off and can't be turned on. This is why I think it doesn't detect my wireless device, because it's off.

Don't really know what kind of hardware you are having. I never saw a wireless device with a hard switch on it and cannot be switched on by the time you boot from the CD. Does not really make sense to me. Are you talking about a real switch on the device or just a switch shown on the screen?

Rgds,
Chip

[Harry Kuhman]

Don't really know what kind of hardware you are having. I never saw a wireless device with a hard switch on it and cannot be switched on by the time you boot from the CD. Does not really make sense to me. Are you talking about a real switch on the device or just a switch shown on the screen?
I have an HP notebook with a real switch on it. The intention is to power off the Wireless NIC to save batteries (and perhaps for privacy and security, although I doubt that HP thought that far). Since Compaq and HP are the same company, it could well be that Compaq notebooks have this switch too. If it's a slide switch, like it is with HP, then I would be confident that in the "off" position the NIC is powered down, and in the "on" position it has power at boot time. If it's some other type of switch, such as a push button, then you might need special software to support the switch (likely built inti the the Windows driver and imposable to get information about from HP/Compaq).

The problem is most likely just the lack of good wireless support in Knoppix. Even a wireless PCMCIA NIC that I have that worked in 4.02 stopped working in 5.x. And some other NICs that I have that Knoppix never recognized were recognized and supported by other live cds, including Puppy Linux and Mandriva.

[nitsuj]

"1.2.1 With Windows explorer open, on the left panel, click on c:\windows\inf folder
1.2.2 Click the "search" button
1.2.3 Click the "All files and folders" on the left panel.
1.2.4 On the "A word of phase in the file" field, enter "bcmwl5.sys" => click "search" button
1.2.5 On the right panel, it shows c:\windows\inf\oem0.inf "

None of that works. I have no "windows\inf folder. And searching for inf files doesn't result in anything even resembling the inf file listed.


OK, that tells me you don't know much on Windows either. But that is fine. "c:\windows" is the default system directory if you install Windows XP by yourself. Anyway, some manufacturer pre-installed Windows on different drive or directory.


All due respect but, stop patronizing me for a second. Don't assume so much. I didn't say I couldn't find c:\windows. I said I couldn't find c:\windows\inf. The windows directory is right where it should be. The inf directory isn't anywhere to be found.




Don't really know what kind of hardware you are having. I never saw a wireless device with a hard switch on it and cannot be switched on by the time you boot from the CD. Does not really make sense to me. Are you talking about a real switch on the device or just a switch shown on the screen?


As I said in my first post, I have a Compaq V2000. It has a button, just north of the keyboard. You push it once, it lights up, to turn the wireless on and push it again to turn it off. I always have it set to on. When I boot the Knoppix cd, it's off and pressing it doesn't turn it on. Maybe because of this, I just can't run Knoppix. I'm cool with that. At least with a final answer, I can quit screwing around with this and move on to something that may work. I just find it hard to believe that with how much Linux guys rave about how much better Linux is, something as simple as getting connected could be this hard. Perhaps it will be possible to connect with my Linksys USB wireless card, but I assume I have to find this stupid inf folder first.

[Harry Kuhman]

I just find it hard to believe that with how much Linux guys rave about how much better Linux is, something as simple as getting connected could be this hard. Perhaps it will be possible to connect with my Linksys USB wireless card, but I assume I have to find this stupid inf folder first.
Even when an OS is superior, if manufacturers build propritary hardware and only make Windows drivers for it, there are serious problems for Linux to support it. This is even more the case for a new generation of interface devices that use firmwre that is contained in the drivers and downloaded at boot time. If the manufacturer doesn't allow the copyrighted code to be included in Linux drivers, the developers just can't include it. And even if the manufacturer did release hardware specs for the device (very few do), this approach requires a lot more work and testing for every driver released.

The answer is for customers to let the manufacturers know they are not happy with the lack of open Linux support, and to vote with their purchases. Rather than say "Perhaps it will be possible to connect with my Linksys USB wireless card", do some research before buying a wireless NIC (or other device) and be sure that there is Linux support, or don't buy it.

[nitsuj]

The answer is for customers to let the manufacturers know they are not happy with the lack of open Linux support, and to vote with their purchases. Rather than say "Perhaps it will be possible to connect with my Linksys USB wireless card", do some research before buying a wireless NIC (or other device) and be sure that there is Linux support, or don't buy it.

I agree, but I'm not heading to Office Depot to buy a whole new setup to run Linux on. I'm converting from Windows. My laptop appears to be incompatible with Knoppix. (Not sure about other distros). And replacing my fairly new laptop isn't an option. If it was, I'd buy a Mac Book and not need to worry about making Linux work. As for my Linux wireless card, I have it on hand so I thought I'd try it. If it won't work, you can bet whatever I replae it with WILL be Linux friendly.

But I agree 100%. Vote with your dollar. EXACTLY why I drove an hour to the nearest Mac store last night. The wifes PC died (again) and I got tired of dealing with Windows crap. So I took my checkbook and drove an hour and bought her a new Mac mini. She loves it. Linux was not an option for her. But it is for me. So IF I can find a way to make it work on this laptop, I'll run it. If I like it, I'll keep running it. If I don't, I'll run Windows until my laptop dies then buy a Mac.

[Harry Kuhman]

Just a few final points: Knoppix wireless support has been bad for a long time and got worse in versions 5.x. Don't base your opnion of Linux on Knoppix wireless support. If you must try a Live CD before installing, look at Puppy Linux, Mandriva, Backtrack 2 and others for better Live CD support of wireless devices than Knoppix, or do a temporary install of Debian or Ubuntu and see if they give you the support that you need.

I wasn't suggesting buying an entire new notebook. But if you think USB networking is acceptable, then shopping around for a wifi usb nic is an option if the one that you have happens to be based on a chip set that will not release it's specs. If your Compaq has a normal PCMCIA slot on it then I would go with a non-usb solution. But if you instead have the damn, faster but nobody makes anything for it, slot that HP is trying to replace PCMCIA slots with then you're up a creek there.

[nitsuj]

I wasn't suggesting buying an entire new notebook. But if you think USB networking is acceptable, then shopping around for a wifi usb nic is an option if the one that you have happens to be based on a chip set that will not release it's specs. If your Compaq has a normal PCMCIA slot on it then I would go with a non-usb solution. But if you instead have the damn, faster but nobody makes anything for it, slot that HP is trying to replace PCMCIA slots with then you're up a creek there.

I don't think USB networking is acceptable, but my darn laptops built in card appears to be a no show. But thanks for the advice. I think I am going to explore some other type of live CD install. Until I've had a chance to try Linux for a while I don't feel like partitioning my hard drive for a dual boot.

[chip.ling]

All due respect but, stop patronizing me for a second. Don't assume so much. I didn't say I couldn't find c:\windows. I said I couldn't find c:\windows\inf. The windows directory is right where it should be. The inf directory isn't anywhere to be found.


OK, so you know windows. Then you should notice that your Windows XP is not installed in a normal fashion. You never told us what OS your machine is running, so I assume it is running Windows XP.

Finding the c:\windows\inf step basically tries to scale down the scope of searching for the inf file. After you point to "c:\windows\inf" and start the search, "c:\windows\inf" is the starting point to start the search.

If you cannot find the inf folder, then just use the c:\ instead, and then perform the same search as the FAQ did. It probably takes longer to run because now you are searching the whole c: drive.

If you still cannot find it and you have another drive say d: drive. Search for it as well. The whole objective of the FAQ section is to find the corresponding inf file windows is using. It is somewhere in one of your harddisk but they just fail to put it at the default folder.



As I said in my first post, I have a Compaq V2000. It has a button, just north of the keyboard. You push it once, it lights up, to turn the wireless on and push it again to turn it off. I always have it set to on. When I boot the Knoppix cd, it's off and pressing it doesn't turn it on. Maybe because of this, I just can't run Knoppix. I'm cool with that. At least with a final answer, I can quit screwing around with this and move on to something that may work.

Sorry sir, I don't have a Compaq V2000 and I never saw one. I don't know why they created a switch that make you believe you are in control and decide when you can turn on the wireless hardware but at the end you cannot. You should file a complain to Compaq saying their switch is not working.



I just find it hard to believe that with how much Linux guys rave about how much better Linux is, something as simple as getting connected could be this hard.

It's pretty sad isn't it. What I can see here is all those Linux guys used their free time to develop a very good free OS here but the commercial world does not support it.

In real world, preventing your enemy to success is our success. So if I WERE the big OS company, I will not allow other manufacturers to support my enemy. If they did, I will not certify their drivers in my product.



Perhaps it will be possible to connect with my Linksys USB wireless card, but I assume I have to find this stupid inf folder first.

I don't have a LinkSys USB wireless card. But I did have a dirt cheap Trendnet wireless USB card. That one is easy, I can find the inf file plus the sys file from the driver CD directly. Don't even need to go thur the installation step.

Rgds,
Chip

[chip.ling]

Perhaps it will be possible to connect with my Linksys USB wireless card, but I assume I have to find this stupid inf folder first.

With my limited Winodws knowledge, I just think of another point. Directory inf by default is marked as hidden directory. So you have to setup your windows explorer in order to see it.

Go to Windows explorer ==> Tools ==> Folder Options
==> View Tab ==> Click on "Show Hidden Files and Folders" ==> Apply ==> OK

Hope that help.

Rgds,
Chip

[nitsuj]

A ha! Found the INF folder. You were right, it was hidden. I never even thought to check that. I'm not sure what you mean by the button Compaq added to make me think I have control over the device. It is a stupid design, I agree, but it's not imagined control. With the button off, I have no connection. And Knopix doesn't locate the device while it's booting, so I assume the button does give me the control it's supposed to. I think Compaq added it to conserve battery when using the laptop in a place with no wireless network. Perhaps searching for a network that isn't there uses a lot of battery power?

When I get home from work, I'll try to follow the rest of the FAQ now that I have the info to get past step 2.

[chip.ling]

A ha! Found the INF folder. You were right, it was hidden. I never even thought to check that. I'm not sure what you mean by the button Compaq added to make me think I have control over the device. It is a stupid design, I agree, but it's not imagined control. With the button off, I have no connection. And Knopix doesn't locate the device while it's booting, so I assume the button does give me the control it's supposed to. I think Compaq added it to conserve battery when using the laptop in a place with no wireless network. Perhaps searching for a network that isn't there uses a lot of battery power?

When I get home from work, I'll try to follow the rest of the FAQ now that I have the info to get past step 2.

Good news, you are one step closer to success.

Rgds,
Chip