Run Windows XP in a window - using VirtualBox

[johnrw]

For those of you looking to chuck your Windows XP, you may like what method I have chosen for those times you absolutely must have it available. I looked around at a few VM efforts. I considered buying Win4Lin, until I read the readme which states it cannot work with usb devices in the guest OS... unless they are already working in the host... or something like that. Bottom line... no usb except maybe a mouse or keyboard. I looked at the vm in Knoppix, QEMU and KQEMU... it looked complicated enough to put on a back burner for me.

I had already tried winetools... but that had a drawback somewhere I can't remember at the moment.
Next up, VirtualBox by Innotek, (http://www.virtualbox.org) which
Sun Microsystems just bought. (http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/pr/2008-02/sunflash.20080212.1.xml) That made me curious enough to try it out, if I could install it on Knoppix.

Well we all know that vmWare can probably do this. But at $189 who needs windows THAT badly!
Recently I had to run a Windows program on my Knoppix box. This program needed to access a low speed USB device, in particular... an energy monitor that monitors my house's electrical usage. That would be the TED 1001, available at TED (http://www.TheEnergyDetective.com). It has only a windows NT,XP program that you can use to monitor it with called Footprints. It required .Net version 2.0 and has a USB to Serial port driver that you have to install as well, called CDM 2.02.04.exe. It's on the net as well.

I am going to try and list the steps I did to get that working, on Knoppix 5.1.1, installed to a 5GB partition that has the Knoppix DVD iso file on it. I have my persistent home (knoppix.img) file on a separate XP ntfs partition which is about 5GB also.
I am running on a older AMD 32 bit board, so I can't help you on what will happen with the 64 bit version running on a 32 bit i386 Knoppix. I am just trying to find a cheap pc to record the data this monitor sends out every second or so. I wonder if getting the 32 bit i386 deb will work well on Knoppix 5.1.1 which is basically i386 as well. I'll do that soon enough and add to this thread later what my results were. Maybe someone else has already done this.

So let me get started telling you what I did. Download this deb, (http://195.34.175.98/download/1.5.6/virtualbox_1.5.6-28266_Debian_etch_i386.deb) for Knoppix 5.1.1 users. If you run a different Knoppix version... you'll have to do some checking for which version to use. They have debs for Etch and Sarge.

First I did some commandline checking with apt-get -s install ~/Desktop/virtualbox_1.5.6-28266_Debian_etch_i386.deb to see if it would complain. Then after getting no complaints, I then installed it without the -s.
It gave me some error about a kernel module was not available for it... with a line saying I should execute "sudo /etc/init.d/vboxdrv setup" in a console. I think dpkg was even offering to do this for me, but I just opened another console and did it there and when it finished I went back and continued. On the dvd version this built without any errors. The CD version may be missing kernel headers. When you are finished, you can type "lsmod | grep vbox" without quotes in a console and you should see a module loaded, such as vboxdrv 54912 0. As for any additional libraries VirtualBox requires... on the DVD version everything is there already.

Next, since there are no shiny new icons on the Desktop, I had to roll my own. Right clicking on the Desktop, and picking... Create New->Link to Application. In the General tab... you can fill in a more descriptive name than "Link to Application" is. I chose VirtualBox. Then click the Application tab and in the third text field, labeled "Command" enter /usr/bin/VirtualBox. You are done unless you want to change your icon... by clicking on the blue gear. I wound up grabbing the one off the website.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Vboxlogo.png that I can touch up if the non transparent background really winds up bugging me.
Edit: Mar 09, 2008 I found a transparent version so here it is
Edit: May 28, 2008 The image disappeared. I'll put it up on my server till I find out why. http://home.comcast.net/~johnrw/virtualbox_logo_vbox.png

Next, add the knoppix user to the vboxusers group, by editing the file /etc/group.
Mine now says: vboxusers:x:125:knoppix on the last line, as I just added the word knoppix to the end of what was put there by the installation. Then I had to reboot... maybe I could have just logged out but my Knoppix reboots quickly now that I have fixed this bug. (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28412&start=0)

Next I opened a terminal... and I typed sudo VirtualBox. Sometimes a program finishes installing when run the first time... and that's best done as root. I dunno. Better safe than sorry.,

Now for the fun part... Creating the virtual Windows XP. You'll want to have some hard disk space for this... although for my needs I don't plan on using the expanding drive feature of VirtualBox. I used the fixed option. There are only 2 things I need to mention before we stick in a Windows Installer cd. Unless you have 2 cdrom drives in the same pc, you may have a hard time using one for Knoppix, and one for the Windows installer. That's another good reason to just go ahead and create some permanent partitions for Knoppix, and a separate one for your persistent home sized accordingly.
Some offtopic stuff follows.
Using Gilles' van Ruymbeke's wonderful minirt_511a.gz, I can boot Knoppix from anywhere. Ntfs drives included. I have even used his ntfs_rw cheatcode which allows you to have an iso image of Knoppix on your XP drive... and be able to write to that same drive when you are in Knoppix. Ok, so if you want to know about getting that minirt_511a.gz, and using it on your pc... I would suggest a www.knoppix.net+minirt_511a.gz&hl=en&safe=off&filter=0]Google (http://www.google.com/search?q=site:[url) site search[/url] of these forums for minirt_511a.gz, as the one here seems to return nothing for some strange reason.

I have prepared a script which will load the files you need to edit, into an editor... and using straight KDE dialogs and dcop, allow you to see what those changes are... and extract a boot directory to what is supposed to be your C: drive. If you feel adventurous, you can get both files Here is knoppix-pmi-setup.sh (http://home.comcast.net/~johnrw/knoppix-pmi-setup.sh) and Here is boot.tar.bz2 (http://home.comcast.net/~johnrw/boot.tar.bz2) and place them in the same directory before running the pmi-setup script. After downloading the script, and reading it to make sure it might do what you want... you'll need to open a terminal and cd to the directory you saved the files to and make the script an executable with a, "chmod +x knoppix-pmi-setup.sh" command. Even though it will give you gui stuff to use, I'd still recommend running it from the console. Some error messages are "normal" non critical kde errors... but it does the job, and was fun for me to explore dcop with.

Ok, in the screenshots below, you should notice I am giving direct control of the Cd Rom drive to windows. It worked flawlessly for my XP install set that way. And that I use /dev/hdc because it's the master drive on the second IDE controller.

The other thing... I have turned off usb 2.0... because as I was learning this myself, I had problems enabling high speed usb.
[b]EDIT: Mar 06, 2008 OK...duh! I decided to plug in a High Speed USB device... and after I enabled it in the VirtualBox Devices menu, it worked great in Windows XP as well. I wasn't sure the TED device was a USB 1.x device before... but now I am. :) So the short of it is to go ahead and turn on EHCI if you have a High speed device plugged in already

One more tip... find your real mac address out by typing "ifconfig" in a console. Then use the same address for the network card in Network. You will run into problems activating windows if your vm has a different mac address than the one that gets sent to M$ from Knoppix. Layers and layers...

You should now be ready to insert your XP installation disk, and click the VirtualBox's Start button.

http://home.comcast.net/~johnrw/graphics/VirtualBox-Main.png
http://home.comcast.net/~johnrw/graphics/VirtualBox-General_Settings.png
http://home.comcast.net/~johnrw/graphics/VirtualBox-Cd_Dvd.png
http://home.comcast.net/~johnrw/graphics/VirtualBox-Network.png
http://home.comcast.net/~johnrw/graphics/VirtualBox-Serial_Ports.png
http://home.comcast.net/~johnrw/graphics/VirtualBox-USB.png


And now we are installing XP into a .vdi file... one you can backup to an external drive.
How long has it been since I could do that!!!!!
(Yeah, I have Ghost... but that is almost as inconvenient as installing XP.)


http://home.comcast.net/~johnrw/graphics/XP_Install.png


Running TED Footprints energy monitor program.


http://home.comcast.net/~johnrw/graphics/Footprints-On-Knoppix-Linux.png



Now once you are up and running in your Guest OS, there is one last step to make to enable a usb device. In VirtualBox's main menu, of an already running XP or whatever OS you choose to load, go to the Devices menu... and pick USB. You will get a popout menu of what VirtualBox says is available to enable inside the guest OS vm. Once I did that... then windows device discovery took over and installed the drivers for the device.

Since I cannot remember how I did it... I'll also mention there is a feature called "guest additions." At some point I was prompted to install them, and said sure, go ahead. They may be needed or not.
EDIT: Mar 8, 2008 Well as I get more familiar with VirtualBox, this content will reflect that. Guest Additions, you are not really finished until you also install them too. First you go to the Devices menu of VirtualBox, and select Install Guest Additions. Once you do that... there will be a new drive. Mine is VBOXADDITIONS_1.5.6_28241. Double clicking it should start it's installation. Once you restart... going to My Network Places, then Entire Network... should show you a new class "VirtualBox Shared Folders." Now following instructions for sharing your drives with your VirtualBox Guests should work as expected.
I would suggest to start out making a folder in your $home's Desktop... ie...
mkdir ~/Desktop/VboxHomethen creating a shared folder to that folder using the VirtualBox gui. This way your permissions will not be a factor. Once you have that working you can try elsewhere. When VirtualBox asks you for a Folder Path I would also recommend to use full pathnames.
For my earlier example
/home/knoppix/Desktop/VboxHome instead of ~/Desktop/VboxHome

You may notice my cpu usage was around 65%... I believe that is from the usb device sending really small chunks of data. I could be wrong but when I plug that box in... the vm takes more cycles. I could care less. I don't plan on sticking an expensive pc on for just an electric monitor program to run. If it burns up, I'll find another lol.

Enjoy.

VirtualBox does have a help facility with alot of helpful information I see no point in covering here.

edits: jw
1. fixed a few smal typos, but I will be making updates to this.
2. Mar 06, 20008 correct my USB 2.0 dilema... to show it must have a USB 2.0 device plugged in for it to be detected as such.
3. Mar 08, 2008 Add some more info about Guest Additions.
4. Mar 10, 2008 Located a transparent icon, the white background bugged me.
5. May 28, 2008 Transparent Image has disappeared... I'll host an archive of it for this article.

[Harry Kuhman]

....Well we all know that vmWare can probably do this. But at $189 who needs.....
VMware player is free, does the job fine, and as far as I jnow has a lot less overhead (based on how large a % of the CPU the virtual application gets).

[johnrw]

http://www.vmware.com/products/player/ says.....


"Run virtual machines on your Windows or Linux PC with VMware Player 2.0. This free desktop virtualization software application makes it easy to operate any virtual machine created by VMware Workstation, VMware Server or VMware ESX Server, as well as Microsoft virtual machines and Symantec LiveState Recovery disks. You can also use Player to evaluate one of the many virtual appliances available from the VMware Virtual Appliance Marketplace"

So people need VMware workstation to make the XP "appliance"... which Innotek's VirtualBox allows you to do with just one product. A free for personal use product.

As for the high cpu rate... I've already explaned that was because of the TED monitor sending really small packets often enough to jam things up. I discovered that reading the lkml, and mr usb greg k-h explained it straight forward enough. Even on my XP laptop the device is always causing writing... ie no buffering. Maybe on the next TED version they will see reason enough to put a 4k chip on it to buffer with. But other people who have a similar needs, may have better hardware hooked up to usb than this is.

Ya know, I suspect QEMU and kQEMU are probably better and they come with Knoppix 5.1.1 but this was so dreadfully easy I wanted to share with the Windows XP crowd. Tonight, I blew away two old XP partitions so I can make a really nice Windows XP Window with this.

cheers

[Harry Kuhman]

...So people need VMware workstation to make the XP "appliance"...
Actually, they don't. I've made XP and Vista and even Wn98 virtual machines without the use of Workstation at all. The VMX file is just a text file that is very easily edited. But no need to even break out a text editor; there are websites and tools that will make the vmx file for you. One such website is easyvmx.com , which will make a vmx file to your specifications. But the best tool that I found so far is one that you don't have to keep going back to the Internet for each time that you want to make a few changes to the vm called VMX Builder. It lets you create and edit VMX files with a nice GUI based editor.

These are not the only ways to build a vmx file for free. You could simply use VMware's free VMserver, which makes vmx files, but it's overkill for most simple vmx files. And the simplest way of all might be just to take any virtual machine that you already have, boot it, tell the virtual machine to go into it's virtual BIOS so that you can boot from CD or DVD rather than hard disk, insert a bootable install CD into your drive and install something off of the bootable disk, completely formatting and overwriting your old virtual disk in the process! This is a bit crude, since you retain the old VM's settings such as memory and disk size, but it does work. I've install Debian from the net-install CD this way, just to prove that I could do it.

[johnrw]

#!/usr/bin/vmplayer

# Filename: My_Super_Easy_VM.vmx
# Generated 2008-03-03;09:36:31 by EasyVMX! Super Simple Edition
# http://www.easyvmx.com

# This is a Workstation 5 or 5.5 config file
# It can be used with Player
config.version = "8"
virtualHW.version = "4"

Well it's a long config file, most windows users could not cope with. This is a forum for people with a windows background.

Otoh, I noticed VMware player has a parallel port, which VirtualBox does not have.
I still have an HP Deskjet that uses lpt.

VirtualBox is just easier. If it works right. It worked for me.

cheers

[Harry Kuhman]

Well it's a long config file, most windows users could not cope with. This is a forum for people with a windows background.
I'm not clear on why you would want to say this. Even if you manually edit it, it's not that large or complex. Windows users have been dealing with far worse, at least any windows user who would likely use a virtual machine. Take for example the awful ini files in windows. But I pointed out free tools that give windows users a graphical user interface to create or edit the vmx file. One never has to look at the text contents of the file. The parallel port is just one of many advantages of using VMware. I have nothing against people having other options, and was glad to read the information that you presented about VirtualBox. But VMware is a very professional product and the availability of a free VMware player as well as free VMware server and free tools that create and edit vmx files should not be overlooked. To state that it costs nearly $200 to be able to create virtual machines with VMware is incorrect; I use VMware, freely and legally, and can create virtual machines just fine.

[drb]

A vote here for Virtualbox - I couldn't believe how easy it was to install and add a guest OS. No problems with USB (printers, scanners etc.) - the only issue I've had is the lack of firewire support.

drb

[johnrw]

I'm not clear on why you would want to say this.
Harry... I said it because it appeared you were trying to advise others that they should use VMware Player instead of VirtualBox, and I was pointing out it was alot harder than VirtualBox is.

My Super Easy VM web configurator:
1. Returned me a zip file... with the same basname.
2. It had five files in it.
My_Super_Easy_VM-s001.vmdk 327680 Mar 3 03:36
My_Super_Easy_VM-s002.vmdk 327680 Mar 3 03:36
My_Super_Easy_VM-s003.vmdk 131072 Mar 3 03:36
My_Super_Easy_VM.vmdk 427 Mar 3 03:36
My_Super_Easy_VM.vmx 3019 Mar 3 03:36

In the vmx file... for instance...
# These settings decides interaction between your
# computer and the virtual machine
isolation.tools.hgfs.disable = "FALSE"
isolation.tools.dnd.disable = "FALSE"
isolation.tools.copy.enable = "TRUE"
isolation.tools.paste.enabled = "TRUE"


What is hfgs.disable?

But since it returned me a VMware player for version 1, based on Workstation 5.x, I don't know if they are even compatible.

Harry, I should have thanked you for pointing that out, that I could use VMware to do this. It is the best in it's class.
Thanks for that. Otoh... I don't belong in the new to Linux forum, cause I'm not. I'll check into VMware Player but did I mention I wanted this thing to be up and running asap? VMware would have required me to be an experienced user to know what you knew. True, many windows users are familiar with VMware. Maybe in the long run... I'll get to know VMware for completeness sake... but VirtualBox makes getting a VM up and running such a snap, I feel I just had to let others know how cool it is.

cheers

[johnrw]

Harry,

Ya know? I installed VMware player. The installation asked me a ton of questions with defaults provided. I accepted them.
It killed my network. When I ran the My_Super_Easy_VM.vdx, I also got errors for:
parallel0 not found, and the same with the serial port.

I had to remove all of it's startup stuff in /etc/ and /etc/dhcpc/resolve.conf was changed to a non existant ip.
Not the kind of thing windows users can do. Unless they are familiar with VMware.

I saved the installation output in case you want to know I did wrong, cause I sure don't.

My final verdict is the same as the one I started this topic with.
VirtualBox is so much easier, and works great.

cheers

[Harry Kuhman]

.... I accepted them.
It killed my network. When I ran the My_Super_Easy_VM.vdx, I also got errors for:
parallel0 not found, and the same with the serial port....

That's strange. I've installed VMplayer many times and never had a problem with it. I did have some problems trying to install Sun Solaris to a virtual machine, but I expect thats a different issue, as my VMplayer installs can play all vmx's I've downloaded and the other ones that I built myself, even my Win98 and Vista VMX's.

I don't know that I've ever used the "super easy" mode in Easy VMX, think I always used the more middle of the road approach. But I don't use it at all any more, I just find the downloadable VMXbuilder application so much nicer.

Still, these should work for you. Unfortunately, you don't give many details on what the problems were or even supply the supposedly bad files. When I have such a problem, I don't just say "it doesn't work", I want to understand what is failing. For example, you should be able to inspect that vmx file you had the website create for you and either find what is wrong with it or concede that it's correct. Kind of like the guys who post here that Windows will not boot after trying a Knoppix CD. I see such posts two or three times each year, but have absolutely never seen anyone post any meaningful information about what they think Knoppix has done to their system. I don't know what I can do for you (and I suspect you don't really want your VMware issues resoved, you seem to just want to make a case for Virtualbox over VMware) unless you are willing to get a little more involved. I suggest downloading vmxbuilder and making a vmx file that way that gives access to the ports you want. Then look at both that vmx file and the one that you made with the easy vmx website and seeing what is different in the port section of the files. I would also suggest trying the more stanndard easy vmx option, not the vmx for dummies option, but I don't really know if that's an issue.

You seemed to want to put words in my mouth when you posted "it appeared you were trying to advise others that they should use VMware Player instead of VirtualBox". But I only made my post after you had done an extensive post highly pushing one virtualization solution, Virtualbox, complete with extensive graphics, and not only ignoring many other solutions but also making the false claim that it would cost $189 to do the same thing with VMware. I only wanted to correct that claim, particularly since I enjoy the products that VMware has made available to us for free.

Quite frankly, when I first saw your Virtualbox post, it looked like a spam message posted by a shill for SUN. If it had been posted by a new member to these forums rather than someone who has been active here for 18 months and with nearly 50 good posts on many different topics, it would have likely been deleted. But knowing you as a helpful member here, you clearly went to a lot of trouble to write up such a detailed piece on this virtualization tool, one that I assume you found helpful and wanted to share with others. I don't know why you seem to have less than positive feelings about my correction of the VMware cost issue or my sharing of my experiences with VMware and third party tools for it.

I'll also point out that in conflict to your $189 claim to create vmx files for VMware, VMware is actually "more free" than Sun's Virtualbox. VirtualBox is free for personal use, but the full version has more restrictions on it than the free VMplayer for commercial use. If one is looking for true free open code software, neither Virtualbox nor VMware fit that requirement.

As to your statement "it appeared you were trying to advise others that they should use VMware Player instead of VirtualBox", I just let it slide when you posted that yesterday, I didn't want to get into a debate. But your post today with limited information and bad results that I've never duplicated seems to demand a response (you didn't actually install both VMplayer and Virtualbox on the same instance of an OS, did you?). I wasn't trying to advise others to install either, just trying to correct the misinformation. But after giving it consideration based on your post, yes, I'll advise others to install VMPlayer rather than Virtualbox. VMware is very clearly the current leader in this technology, and has many features that Vrtualbox lacks (some of which you have acknowledged). I don't stop there though. If users have an interest in this technology, I encourage them to look a other options, including KVM, XEN and Virtualbox as well as many others (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machine). I'll even point them to this comparison of different solutions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_virtual_machines) to get started. I advise against trying to install more than one of these applications on any single Windows or Linux install however; while the install of a virtual machine may look like a very simple dialog, it has to do a number of complex things to the host OS to get everything right, and it's not unlikely that multiple virtualization products would have some conflicts if more than one were installed on an OS at the same time.

[johnrw]

Ok... I knew this would turn into something more. No I am not a shill for any company.
I am just trying to let the windows users know how to get a working VM, with pictures and all.
I'd rather be talking to windows users who have given it a try and see what I mean, or not...

Errors? Well here are the files... that should give a VMware tech enough info... just in case you are qualified.

http://home.comcast.net/~johnrw/installer-output.txt
and the vdx is here...
http://home.comcast.net/~johnrw/My_Super_Easy_VM.vmx.txt
and the log
http://home.comcast.net/~johnrw/My_Super_Easy_VM.log.txt
and the changed files in /etc
http://home.comcast.net/~johnrw/VMware_etc_new_files.txt

It says "The subnet 172.16.124.0"
It changed my /etc/dhcpc/resolve.conf to "The subnet 172.16.124.0" I think.

You see... once I had no network... I started to rip the stuff out in /etc that might get me my network back.
I deleted resolve.conf and all /etc/rc.0 through /etc/rc.6 S##vm* K##vm* stuf and a chmod -x /etc/init.d/vmware and then rebooted. My network came back.

Since there is no way to uninstall this beast... or VirtualBox for that matter... yes now I have both... VirtualBox and VMware Player. I am sure that I can run the installer again and accept the defaults offered and wind up with a broken network... and we can micro analyze why and what options need to be refused in the installation maybe... but that is best done in a separate VMware Player for Knoppix (latest release) topic... don't you think? You are a moderator, and as such should be best at staying on topic.

As for what My_Super_Easy_VM.vdx did... That's not the issue... I could not even ping google.com even after a reboot.
1. Install VMware Player.
2. Launch VM. with Windows XP cd in drive.(yes Setup.exe started)
3. Exit Windows XP Setup with F3 key.
4. try and ping google.com
5. hmmm no network now.
6. Reboot.
7. watch VirtualBox's drivers load after everything else Knoppix finishes.
8. Watch VMware's drivers load next.
9. ping google.com
10. Nope, nuthing. Freak out!
11. Get mad... and rip out.
12. cd /etc
12. find . -mmin -120 -print > /home/knoppix/Desktop/VMware_new_etc_files.txt
13. Remove new files in /etc/rc.0/ /rc.6/ and sudo chmod -x /etc/init.d/vmware

But... VMware's player did in fact start a VM with it... and Windows XP setup started... but since I couldn't even check on what drive/file was going to be written to... I had to Open up the vdx file... and see what statement would govern that... here it is:

# First IDE disk
# This disk image is selected by default
ide0:0.present = "TRUE"
ide0:0.fileName = "My_Super_Easy_VM.vmdk"
ide0:0.mode = "persistent"
ide0:0.startConnected = "TRUE"
ide0:0.writeThrough = "TRUE"

To see what drive/file my VM is "contained in/to" is so super easy in VirtualBox. (see picture)
As a matter of fact... until the user picks one... it isn't going to do squat.
I must mount a drive... and a provide a file name(existing file is not needed, just a filename to use) or a default New_Hard_Disk.vdi located in my $home will be used.

Alas... VMware player found no parallel ports or serial ports to match what the vdx file said to use.. and said it would disable them in the VM.

So using VMware player as a mini workstation requires a prowess that does not belong in a "MS Windows & New to Linux", topic.

In my opinion... ease of use is crucial to successful use. Successful use is first and foremost to mass adoption.
I don't mean to support the minimalist UI people in that... but well written essential features... in a clean UI... is valuable is it not?

Here is the installer output.

root@Knoppix:/KNOPPIX.IMG/home/knoppix/Desktop/VMware-player-2.0.1-55017.i386/vm
ware-player-distrib# ./vmware-install.pl
Creating a new VMware Player installer database using the tar4 format.

Installing VMware Player.

In which directory do you want to install the binary files?
[/usr/bin]

What is the directory that contains the init directories (rc0.d/ to rc6.d/)?
[/etc]

What is the directory that contains the init scripts?
[/etc/init.d]

In which directory do you want to install the daemon files?
[/usr/sbin]

In which directory do you want to install the library files?
[/usr/lib/vmware]

The path "/usr/lib/vmware" does not exist currently. This program is going to
create it, including needed parent directories. Is this what you want?
[yes]

In which directory do you want to install the documentation files?
[/usr/share/doc/vmware]

The path "/usr/share/doc/vmware" does not exist currently. This program is
going to create it, including needed parent directories. Is this what you want?
[yes]

The installation of VMware Player 2.0.1 build-55017 for Linux completed
successfully. You can decide to remove this software from your system at any
time by invoking the following command: "/usr/bin/vmware-uninstall.pl".

Before running VMware Player for the first time, you need to configure it by
invoking the following command: "/usr/bin/vmware-config.pl". Do you want this
program to invoke the command for you now? [yes]

Making sure services for VMware Player are stopped.

Stopping VMware services:
Virtual machine monitor done

Configuring fallback GTK+ 2.4 libraries.

In which directory do you want to install the theme icons?
[/usr/share/icons]

What directory contains your desktop menu entry files? These files have a
.desktop file extension. [/usr/share/applications]

In which directory do you want to install the application's icon?
[/usr/share/pixmaps]

Trying to find a suitable vmmon module for your running kernel.

None of the pre-built vmmon modules for VMware Player is suitable for your
running kernel. Do you want this program to try to build the vmmon module for
your system (you need to have a C compiler installed on your system)? [yes]

Using compiler "/usr/bin/gcc". Use environment variable CC to override.

What is the location of the directory of C header files that match your running
kernel? [/lib/modules/2.6.19/build/include]

Extracting the sources of the vmmon module.

Building the vmmon module.

Using 2.6.x kernel build system.
make: Entering directory `/ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only'
make -C /lib/modules/2.6.19/build/include/.. SUBDIRS=$PWD SRCROOT=$PWD/. modules
make[1]: Entering directory `/UNIONFS/usr/src/linux-2.6.19.1'
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/linux/driver.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/linux/hostif.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/common/comport.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/common/cpuid.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/common/hash.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/common/memtrack.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/common/phystrack.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/common/task.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/common/vmciContext.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/common/vmciDatagram.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/common/vmciDriver.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/common/vmciDs.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/common/vmciGroup.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/common/vmciHashtable.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/common/vmciProcess.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/common/vmciResource.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/common/vmciSharedMem.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/common/vmx86.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/vmcore/moduleloop.o
LD [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/vmmon.o
Building modules, stage 2.
MODPOST 1 modules
CC /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/vmmon.mod.o
LD [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only/vmmon.ko
make[1]: Leaving directory `/UNIONFS/usr/src/linux-2.6.19.1'
cp -f vmmon.ko ./../vmmon.o
make: Leaving directory `/ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmmon-only'
The module loads perfectly in the running kernel.

Trying to find a suitable vmblock module for your running kernel.

None of the pre-built vmblock modules for VMware Player is suitable for your
running kernel. Do you want this program to try to build the vmblock module
for your system (you need to have a C compiler installed on your system)?
[yes]

Extracting the sources of the vmblock module.

Building the vmblock module.

Using 2.6.x kernel build system.
make: Entering directory `/ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmblock-only'
make -C /lib/modules/2.6.19/build/include/.. SUBDIRS=$PWD SRCROOT=$PWD/. modules
make[1]: Entering directory `/UNIONFS/usr/src/linux-2.6.19.1'
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmblock-only/linux/block.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmblock-only/linux/control.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmblock-only/linux/dbllnklst.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmblock-only/linux/dentry.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmblock-only/linux/file.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmblock-only/linux/filesystem.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmblock-only/linux/inode.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmblock-only/linux/module.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmblock-only/linux/stubs.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmblock-only/linux/super.o
LD [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmblock-only/vmblock.o
Building modules, stage 2.
MODPOST 1 modules
CC /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmblock-only/vmblock.mod.o
LD [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmblock-only/vmblock.ko
make[1]: Leaving directory `/UNIONFS/usr/src/linux-2.6.19.1'
cp -f vmblock.ko ./../vmblock.o
make: Leaving directory `/ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmblock-only'
The module loads perfectly in the running kernel.

Do you want networking for your virtual machines? (yes/no/help) [yes]

Configuring a bridged network for vmnet0.

The following bridged networks have been defined:

. vmnet0 is bridged to eth0

All your ethernet interfaces are already bridged.

Do you want to be able to use NAT networking in your virtual machines? (yes/no)
[yes]

Configuring a NAT network for vmnet8.

Do you want this program to probe for an unused private subnet? (yes/no/help)
[yes]

Probing for an unused private subnet (this can take some time)...

The subnet 172.16.124.0/255.255.255.0 appears to be unused.

The following NAT networks have been defined:

. vmnet8 is a NAT network on private subnet 172.16.124.0.

Do you wish to configure another NAT network? (yes/no) [no]

Do you want to be able to use host-only networking in your virtual machines?
[yes]

Configuring a host-only network for vmnet1.

Do you want this program to probe for an unused private subnet? (yes/no/help)
[yes]

Probing for an unused private subnet (this can take some time)...

The subnet 192.168.190.0/255.255.255.0 appears to be unused.

The following host-only networks have been defined:

. vmnet1 is a host-only network on private subnet 192.168.190.0.

Do you wish to configure another host-only network? (yes/no) [no]

Trying to find a suitable vmnet module for your running kernel.

None of the pre-built vmnet modules for VMware Player is suitable for your
running kernel. Do you want this program to try to build the vmnet module for
your system (you need to have a C compiler installed on your system)? [yes]

Extracting the sources of the vmnet module.

Building the vmnet module.

Using 2.6.x kernel build system.
make: Entering directory `/ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only'
make -C /lib/modules/2.6.19/build/include/.. SUBDIRS=$PWD SRCROOT=$PWD/. modules
make[1]: Entering directory `/UNIONFS/usr/src/linux-2.6.19.1'
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only/driver.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only/hub.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only/userif.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only/netif.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only/bridge.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only/filter.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only/procfs.o
CC [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only/smac_compat.o
SHIPPED /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only/smac_linux.x386.o
LD [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only/vmnet.o
Building modules, stage 2.
MODPOST 1 modules
CC /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only/vmnet.mod.o
LD [M] /ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only/vmnet.ko
make[1]: Leaving directory `/UNIONFS/usr/src/linux-2.6.19.1'
cp -f vmnet.ko ./../vmnet.o
make: Leaving directory `/ramdisk/tmp/vmware-config0/vmnet-only'
The module loads perfectly in the running kernel.

Starting VMware services:
Virtual machine monitor done
Blocking file system: done
Virtual ethernet done
Bridged networking on /dev/vmnet0 done
Host network detection done
Host-only networking on /dev/vmnet1 (background) done
DHCP server on /dev/vmnet1 done
Host-only networking on /dev/vmnet8 (background) done
DHCP server on /dev/vmnet8 done
NAT service on /dev/vmnet8 done

The configuration of VMware Player 2.0.1 build-55017 for Linux for this running
kernel completed successfully.

You can now run VMware Player by invoking the following command:
"/usr/bin/vmplayer".

Enjoy,

--the VMware team

root@Knoppix:/KNOPPIX.IMG/home/knoppix/Desktop/VMware-player-2.0.1-55017.i386/vm
ware-player-distrib#

[johnrw]

I'll also point out that in conflict to your $189 claim to create vmx files for VMware, VMware is actually "more free" than Sun's Virtualbox. VirtualBox is free for personal use, but the full version has more restrictions on it than the free VMplayer for commercial use. If one is looking for true free open code software, neither Virtualbox nor VMware fit that requirement.

Really? When vmware was loaded... dmesg | head showed me I had a tainted kernel.
With VirtualBox Pro... I do not have one.

[Harry Kuhman]

I thought I tried very hard to make it clear that I did not think that you were a shill, just that your discussion on this seemed to me to be strongly colored in one direction and rather dismissive of alternatives. You brought up VMware in your original post and stated that it would cost $189 to be able to build the VMware VMX file, so I didn't feel I was wondering off topic when I corrected that. Sure, if I or anyone wanted to do as extensive of a writeup on VMware that you have done here for Virtualbox, it should be down as a separate thread. But I'm not the one who brought up VMware, I just corrected negative information about it from the original thread. That is not "off topic".

Of the 4 links that you gave, the 2nd and 4th are bad, and lead to this page: http://home.comcast.net/site/error/error_404.html. Too bad, since they were the ones that might have given some information.

I've only installed VMware under Windows XP and Debian. You likely already know my biases against installing Knoppix to hard disk or trying to install too much to Knoppix (lots of problems caused by the mixed Debian versions that make up Knoppix.) If something installs to Knoppix, that's great and a nice bonus. But if something doesn't install properly, I generally put the suspicion of blame on Knoppix and not the application. I certainly don't suggest installing more that one major virtualization tool to any one instance of an OS. As I said before, too much is likely to go wrong, and it sounds like what you are doing when you blame VMware for causing problems. This is particularly true with networking, which actually involves some complex issues to create an independent subnetwork that runs on a virtualized NIC that can cleanly but yet safely communicate with the real NIC and the rest of the network. And I say major to rule out simple virtualization programs like DOSBOX, which co-exists fine on a system running VMware. For those wishing to try Vmware, virtualbox or other virtualization software with a Live CD, I suggest keeping a separate persistent image for each virtualization tool, as well as choosing a live CD that is receptive to the software.

[johnrw]

Ok, I corrected the links...

[Harry Kuhman]

I'll also point out that in conflict to your $189 claim to create vmx files for VMware, VMware is actually "more free" than Sun's Virtualbox. VirtualBox is free for personal use, but the full version has more restrictions on it than the free VMplayer for commercial use. If one is looking for true free open code software, neither Virtualbox nor VMware fit that requirement.
Really? When vmware was loaded... dmesg | head showed me I had a tainted kernel.
With VirtualBox Pro... I do not have one.
Could mean anything. Could mean that VMware detects a problem that Virtualbox misses. Could mean that VMware knows that it's not being installed into a standard system free of other virtualization software. Certainly doesn't say anything about the point I was stating in the text of mine that you quoted, which is that while parts of Virtualbox is indeed GPL, other parts are considered proprietary and are only free for personal or educational use. Neither VMware nor VirtualBox are true complete free open source solutions. You responded back "Really?" but then followed it with something that has nothing to do as far as I can tell with what I was saying.

[johnrw]

Are you saying when you have VMware's drivers loaded... you don't have a tainted kernel that goes out of it's way to say so in dmesg?

[johnrw]

Ok... enough. You go on and recommend to Windows Users New to Linux that they should use VMware Player 2.02 to run windows XP in a window.

I'll gladly tell people to use VirtualBox for basic XP needs... and if they want to study up long and hard... to find out what the answers to the installer's questions are going to ask them... before they even install it, to go ahead and do so.

We could create a topic for just such a task. Frankly, I was disappointed in VMware... because they are such a best of breed company.
I have some ungodly number of programs on a knoppix disk... and I am disappointed in VMware for not noticing there was another 'incompatible' VM software actively installed, with loaded drivers... and still continuing to install. I should not have to have any special boot image just to run 1 program.

My network was disabled by an incorrect /etc/dhcpc/resolve.conf being written. If those numbers were for network devices and subnets produced by vmware for the guest os... then maybe it should have been named vmware_resolve.conf.

Ok, enough is enough.

I will make a new knoppix.img and rename my real one... and install vmware with that.
I will also try out that GUI .vmx maker.
I probably won't remember my password here... and this will take me some time.

[johnrw]

After renaming my real knoppix.img to knoppix.img.sav
I rebooted.
I made a new persistent $home.
I rebooted.
I pinged google.com successfully.
I installed VMware Player 2.02. It looked very nice... detected missing kernel modules and built some.
(vmmon is the kernel tainter btw. It seems to say so on every bootup. You should know that Harry.)
I accepted every default offered.
I rebooted.
I booted up to console.
I pinged google.com successfully.
I started X with init 5
I could not access the internet.

I rebooted.
I Bzipped my brand new home image.
I renamed my real knoppix.img.sav to knoppix.img

I am back online. (whew!!!!!)
If you want a copy of the image... it's 157Mb, but I could put it up on my webspace...
so whatever default caused it I dunno. There are files in /home/knoppix with some cat /dev/vcs1 > filenames.txt

There are no line ends in those... but viewing them in mc works.
Actually maybe I can delete the player's install files from the $home and do the bzip again. Should make it about half that size.
I'll put it up at when I am done.
http://home.comcast.net/~johnrw/knoppix.img.vmware.tar.bz2

[johnrw]

Done. Let me know when you have grabbed it. It is about 47M. I dunno why it's so large still... I deleted the vmware installer, and the uncompressed dir as well.

[johnrw]

Harry,

I can whine like the worst windows users out there... but you have made me curious about VMware. I had not thought at all about the possibility of any aftermarket support for VMware. Not that they all work flawlessly... but what in software does?

Ok... so I whined like a helpless windows user... who are usually just that... helpless. They don't know about all the internals... and who can blame them... Microsoft has worked very hard at keeping them from finding out. I'd be careful with what you suggest to them for THEM to try out. That's just my opinion. I am a can do guy... and I may install the free VMware Server on an image of it's own... so I can use some of the tools on the VMXBuilder author's website. I think that's here http://petruska.stardock.net/software/VMware.html Yes some of his stuff requires Workstation to be installed at least. Yes it can do alot of nifty things.

I can wade through breakage... but most Windows users can't. I know some that barely know what their C: drive is. They use My Documents... My this and My that... like M$ wanted them to.

Crap. Hillary Clinton got Ohio. If she wins the democrat nomination, I'm voting for McCain and if she wins the White House... moving to Europe! I'll probably find an Irish pub to get drunk in everyday lol.

I just wanted to say thanks for the tips on VMware. On the VMXbuilder website... he also has a script called winetricks.
Looks like it can help fixup wine too.

Thanks Harry.

[drb]

johnrw

Great thread; after years of messing about with wine and then crossover virtualbox was a great find. Hopefully this thread will lead people to another solution; virtualbox ('free' or 'non-free' versions) was just right for me but others might prefer vmware - no right or wrong but a good debate here

drb

[johnrw]

Hi drb,

I did notice your earlier vote of VirtualBox works for you... and meant to throw you a shout out for it. Debating this topic is very time consuming. I have been rebooting so much, I felt like I was in the Windows 98 days. lol. I have never installed vmware before. Well Ok... I did grab a mozilla building Linux Reference Platform... that had CentOS in it... all ready to build mozilla that used vmware player to create a Linux in Windows XP. That worked out of the box for me.

Seems I missed some news apparently. Looks like the next edition of Knoppix will have VirtualBox OSE...
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20080303#news says...

New versions of the popular KNOPPIX live CD may not come out as fast as they once used to, but that doesn't mean that the project is no longer active. In an announcement that will surely please all the fans of the distribution that started the Linux live CD revolution back in 2002, Klaus Knopper revealed that a brand new version would make its appearance during this week's CeBIT exhibition in Hannover, Germany: "The first edition of KNOPPIX 5.3.0 is included in c't magazine 06/2008 published during CeBIT 2008. After CeBIT, it will be available on the KNOPPIX mirrors for download, mostly unchanged." What can we look forward to? "Linux kernel 2.6.24; KDE 3.5.8 with Compiz Fusion as the 3D window manager; updates - cloop 2.624 realtime decompression with threads and experimental 'suspend' feature; Debian Etch + testing, Iceweasel and Icedove updates; OpenOffice.org 2.3.1; VirtualBox OSE; special accessibility features - ADRIANE Audio Desktop and Orca graphical screen reader." And if you can't wait for the public release, we have more good news: LinuxTracker has the torrent. Get it from here: KNOPPIX_V5.3.0DVD-2008-02-12-DE.iso (http://linuxtracker.org/download.php?id=965d64311ce4db1f6d390bbad0fe0b93ee 389fbd&f=KNOPPIX_V5.3.0%20DVD-2008-02-12-DE.torrent)
OSE= Open Source Edition. It's without those USB ports...

As for VMware... I have downloaded about everything I could find... read all kinds of stuff both good and bad... but to be honest... it is very overwhelming. I have no idea what each product does... and doesn't do... have a couple of thirty day serial numbers... which will certainly expire before I have the time to try them all out. I am disappointed in the Linux installer script breaking a working network configuration. But in my opinion... there is no excuse for not getting past installing into a computer by such a top notch company. Why?

Thanks again drb,
Yes I do hope this topic helps people who want to leave Windows behind to do so.

[johnrw]

drb,

Did you try out the knoppix-pmi-setup.sh? The dcop was frustrating and yet fun for me... but I'd like to know what others think of it.

[johnrw]

I made a few changes in the original post.
1. USB high speed needs a High Speed device plugged in before you can add that to a VM.
2. Guest Additions is a 2 step process. Mounting the iso... and then a feature that autoplay enabled machines will just run. Mine is not Autoplay enabled... so I had to Explore it and run the file specified in the autoplay.inf file.

[loserflame]

I know I'm responding to an old post, but how well has this configuration with the TED been working for you? I just got a TED, and I am trying to figure out how to run TEDservice on a Linux box. I think i will just follow your steps, as that sounds like it has worked. Are you able to view the TED data on another computer using the port 9090 service?

[johnrw]

I had eventually decided I needed the box for other things... once I knew how much electricity my stuff uses... I decided to make an x86 router/server out of it. It is only a PIII so it uses a lot less power than most newer pc's. Like 100 watts or so. TED 5000 is coming... and it will be able to hold all that live data, until it is offloaded to any pc. So Linux running VirtualBox, and Footprints will be even more usable... as I won't need to have a pc running 24/7 to recieve the live data. It is expected to be around $200 US, and will include the Footprints software.

The TED service runs in windows. It comes on the software disk.
It should be a file similar to this one... http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/CDM/CDM%202.04.06%20WHQL%20Certified.zip

Be sure to Enable the usb port in VirtualBox... first.
Once you get windows installed, run the exe inside the zip.
Then hook up the TED to the usb port. You can use software like the freeware Tera Term Pro 2.3 to check for data coming in on the virtual serial port.

Once you have the usb->serial port verified to be working... then you need to install Footprints.
You may have to play with your serial ports... as the driver creates a new virtual serial port.
Then be sure to tell Footprints what port the TED is using.

Let me know if you need any help. You can pm me.

[joeschmoe40]

johnrw

Great thread; after years of messing about with wine and then crossover virtualbox was a great find. Hopefully this thread will lead people to another solution; virtualbox ('free' or 'non-free' versions) was just right for me but others might prefer vmware - no right or wrong but a good debate here

drb


To me, the killer in VMWare is the need to compile the kernel module. I know that if you are using one of the "standard" distributions (and these days, that seems to mean either Red Hat or Ubuntu), then there will be a pre-compiled module for you, but, of course, those of us who use Knoppix are not so lucky. Everytime I've setup VMWare on Linux (which is many times over the years), I've had to compile the module. And, this is the point, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I am currently running KNOPPIX_V5.3.1DVD-2008-03-26-EN (installed onto hard disk), but the kernel module compile in VMWare didn't work. Failure was a syntax error in the C code - something about "struct mm does not have a member <something>" - I can't remember. I can get the exact error message in a day or so. Note that the DVD version does have the kernel source on disk, so it should work. Over the years, I have, as I've said, done this several times, and this time, I think I tried just about every variation I could think of - but nothing worked.

Usually (that is, in past experiences), I can get it to work - by futzing with the exact contents of the kernel source directories and/or which C compiler to use. For a long time, the VMWare module would only compile with gcc2.95, so you had to either change the symlink so that "gcc" invokes gcc2.95 (which is the way I usually did it) or you could do:

export CC=gcc2.95

first. Incidentally, in this version of Knoppix (KNOPPIX_V5.3.1DVD-2008-03-26-EN), gcc2.95 isn't installed by default, so I had to apt-get it.

Now, the point of all this are these points:

1) Can anyone help me with my VMWare problem? I'd still like to get this working under the current version of Knoppix.

2) From what I've read here, the VirtualBox requires the same sort of thing - a module compile on the host machine. This seems to me to be a real limitation in what should be "install & go" software. Note that I haven't done anything myself with VirtualBox, so this is somewhat speculation on my part.

3) Win4Lin is cool. Yes, it costs a little money ($30, I think), but it works well and "just works" (doesn't require a module compile). I'm a big fan of VMWare in general, but in at least a few respects, Win4Lin is even better. Win4Lin is my current solution to this problem - certainly unless and until I can get the VMWare problem fixed.

[johnrw]

About helping you get vmware running... in a hard disk install of Knoppix 5.3.1... well you do know that Knoppix 5.3.1 has the open source version of VirtualBox right? If you are managing to get by on win4lin... then you don't need usb in your vm, because win4lin doesn't provide it. Why not, open a console and type virtualbox?

At any rate... before you try and install vmware... you will need to remove VirtualBox.

Harry may have some experience in this regard... but he generally doesn't like to see Knoppix installed to disk.
He may be right in that regard. Recently, I had occasion to download a weekly snapshot of Debian, named debian-testing-i386-netinst.iso and installed that. Was pretty easy, and finshed without errors. My problem with that was there it was... a full system. What next? It had so much software that ran at startup, I was feeling like a newbie all over again... because I was.
My goal on that machine didn't justify a full Debian system... so I threw a 0wn hard disk install of Knoppix 5.3.1 in because I was more comfortable with it. It was a for a machine that sits behind a hardware NAT, as a Samba file server.

[joeschmoe40]

About helping you get vmware running... in a hard disk install of Knoppix 5.3.1... well you do know that Knoppix 5.3.1 has the open source version of VirtualBox right? If you are managing to get by on win4lin... then you don't need usb in your vm, because win4lin doesn't provide it. Why not, open a console and type virtualbox?

I did, and it generated an error message that said "the device /dev/vboxdrv did not exist" and that that meant that the virtual driver (module) hadn't been installed. So I did some checking around, and couldn't find the module installed on the system, nor any good idea about how/where to find it. So, virtualbox is not a "just works". Note incidentally that it brought up the GUI screen for virtualbox, but the message said it would not be possible to start any VMs until the module was installed.


At any rate... before you try and install vmware... you will need to remove VirtualBox.

I don't think I buy that, because the problem was in the module compile - the success or failure of that should be independent of the presence of other software or processes.

[johnrw]

What does

sudo /etc/init.d/vboxdrv start
sudo /etc/init.d/vboxnet start
do? If it gives an error, it is not installed anymore. How or why that could happen... who knows. I'll wait for the results.
If it does start up the drivers... and you want it to do so every time you start your machine... then a

sudo update-rc.d vboxdrv defaults 80 20
sudo update-rc.d vboxnet defaults 80 20
should enable virtualbox drivers to startup on every bootup.
Works for me. When run from a Knoppix dvd... it will work. On a hard disk installation of Knoppix, well that is not really Knoppix anymore... and not really Debian... but a hybrid.

[joeschmoe40]

What does

sudo /etc/init.d/vboxdrv start
sudo /etc/init.d/vboxnet start
do? If it gives an error, it is not installed anymore. How or why that could happen... who knows. I'll wait for the results.


None of those files exists, either in the "hard disk installation" or from booting from the DVD.
When I do: ls -lsa /etc/init.d/v*

it lists 3 files, none of which are related to virtualbox.

However, I (finally) located the module (vboxdrv.ko), and manually insmod'd it, and now things seem to be working.

(Due to some other things, I didn't actually get as far as successfully booting a guest OS, but I'll test again later on a more stable system, and get back to you [as sister Sarah would say])

[johnrw]

Joe,

I decided to check a dvd... an my apologies... in Knoppix 5.3.1, with nothing added or upgraded...
there is a file in /etc/init.d/ named virtualbox-ose... but you should be able to ignore that. Instead...
in /etc/defaults/virtualbox-ose there is a show stopper...
LOAD_VBOXDRV_MODULE=0

What that appears to be is some sort of top down control mechanism... which is cool, as long as one doesn't forget to check that directory.
Changing it to =1 may be all that is needed.
Then, if after a reboot, lsmod doesn't show vboxdrv... loaded... then the line
sudo /etc/init.d/virtualbox-ose start should start it.

If it isn't started... and you want it loaded on bootup...
update-rc.d virtualbox-ose defaults 80 20
should take care of that.

Since I can't guess what you have... or what method of hd-install you used... :)
I guess now is where I put a plug in for Klaus's new 0wn installer.
I should probably put a post up concerning my observations... in using that to install Knoppix to a hard disk.
It has a high bar for system requirements:
1. swap partition must total over 1 GB
2. empty partition of around 20GB minimum(I think it was)

But it will install a full system if you choose the multiuser option.
Just don't think about using apt-get upgrade and then dist-upgrade afterwards.
My one attempt at that was not pretty in the end.
If you just want to have a system that runs with the reliability of Knoppix... in 45 minutes... no hassle no fuss like...
then that may be a sufficient option.

It does offer to modify a grub menu.lst file if it finds grub is installed... but misses my grub4dos menu.lst file... and offers to install grub!
So in that case I say do not do anything.. and look in the <where Knoppix was installed>/boot/grub/menu.lst for the boot options to use in my grub4dos menu.lst.

So... if you have a spare hard disk... you might wind up with a better installation of Knoppix using the new 0wn installer.
When ready to see what it looks like... open a console and type 0wn. There are 6 more files besides the /usr/sbin/0wn script to be found in /usr/share/0wn which to me was impressive. I couldn't wait to try it out... after I read it enough to know what it wanted and expected.

If you don't have enough swap space... to meet the script's demands... but feel you have enough... you can edit the /usr/share/0wn/0wn-common file and change
SWAP_NEEDED=$((1000*1024))
to:
SWAP_NEEDED=$((100*1024)) # 100MB (would not be enough but hey... it's your machine)

The other one...
SPACE_NEEDED is not as easy to fudge... for good reason... the Knoppix dvd has alot of files already... and a hd install is going to have to hold them in uncompressed form.

Maybe I'll add more to this later... on 0wn.

So there is my first stab at the 0wn installer do's and don'ts...
I would like to know and even have posted somewhere... the best way to do an
apt-get update
apt-get upgrade
from a 0wn installed Knoppix.

[joeschmoe40]

Joe,

I decided to check a dvd... an my apologies... in Knoppix 5.3.1, with nothing added or upgraded...
there is a file in /etc/init.d/ named virtualbox-ose... but you should be able to ignore that. Instead...
in /etc/defaults/virtualbox-ose there is a show stopper...
LOAD_VBOXDRV_MODULE=0

What that appears to be is some sort of top down control mechanism... which is cool, as long as one doesn't forget to check that directory.
Changing it to =1 may be all that is needed.
Then, if after a reboot, lsmod doesn't show vboxdrv... loaded... then the line
sudo /etc/init.d/virtualbox-ose start should start it.

If it isn't started... and you want it loaded on bootup...
update-rc.d virtualbox-ose defaults 80 20
should take care of that.

Yes, that file does exist and is, obviously, related to virtualbox. And I did try running it (with the start option).

Incidentally, I find it strange that you say "... but you can ignore that", then say that I should run (start) it.

However, two things led me to believe that it (/etc/inid.d/virtualbox-ose) wasn't directly relevent:
1) The comments in that file say that it is to load the virtualbox networking (i.e., just the networking, not the whole she-bang).
2) It ran fine - did not complain about the lack of the module being loaded. I.e., one would have expected it to say something like "Hey guy, the module isn't loaded (and won't be loaded), so starting this part of it (the networking) isn't likely to do you any good".


Since I can't guess what you have... or what method of hd-install you used... :)
I guess now is where I put a plug in for Klaus's new 0wn installer.
I should probably put a post up concerning my observations... in using that to install Knoppix to a hard disk.
It has a high bar for system requirements:
1. swap partition must total over 1 GB
2. empty partition of around 20GB minimum(I think it was)


That's about what I had on my sysem when I installed via "knx2hd". So, I'll give 0wn a try sometime.

BTW, re: your comments about "apt-get upgrade". Yes, I tried that once on a Knoppix HD install, and it totally screwed up everything. I haven't tried it since...

[johnrw]

Hi joe,

Well this just goes to show how much it is that I still use Knoppix 5.1.1!
When I said for now you can ignore the presence of... /etc/init.d/virtualbox-ose, and instead look at the show stopper in /etc/defaults/virtualbox was mostly because... if there is a line saying not to load... then it needed to be changed before attempting anything else. Then again, how many ways are there to control whether a program starts? For instance... is /etc/init.d/virtualbox-ose executable? a chmod -x /etc/init.d/virtualbox-ose can disable it.

But on more general terms... since we are using Knoppix hard disk install... some things don't work as they do on the dvd. We are left with some scripts... that work in the context of the dvd... but not with a hd install. The bright side... is we can edit ours... and they survive reboots. So the first thing we should do... is find out how the dvd launches a program... and look at the script involved. I know I did this for /usr/sbin/sambastart which in turn starts samba after asking some questions first. That sambastart script is really handy, because it constructs a critical file /etc/samba/smb.conf on the fly before running the samba daemons. I used it to do so, but then added my own additional options to the resulting smb.conf. Then I chmod -x /usr/sbin/sambastart so it won't overwrite my efforts anymore. That is true for virtualbox-ose. There is a script /usr/bin/virtualbox that the K->System->VirtualBox Open Souce Edition, menu item launches. It does not appear to be Knoppix specific.

Ok... now that we know /etc/init.d/virtualbox-ose is only for the net driver... which you will surely want if you desire to copy some files to or from the vm's virtual hard disk image to the non vm hard disk or vice versa. But did you make the change to the /etc/default/virtualbox to LOAD_VBOXDRV_MODULE=1 and reboot? Did it load then? Ok, I decided to resolve this for myself.
/etc/default/virtualbox didn't load the main vboxdrv.ko kernel module. So I added 'vboxdrv' to /etc/modules That worked for vboxdrv.ko on next bootup. This does nothing about loading the virtualbox-ose 'net' driver. For that to be loaded on every boot... the command update-rc.d virtualbox-ose defaults 80 20 will load that.

Now I know I covered this earlier... but there is also the vboxusers group... in /etc/group that you must add yourself to.
I decided to boot Knoppix 5.3.1 and run the K->System->VirtualBox Open Source Edition from the GUI (which uses the virtualbox script /usr/bin/virtualbox.) It gave no error, and is showing me a Welcome to VirtualBox! dialog... where the only thing I can do is create a New VM. The trouble for me there... I have Knoppix 5.3.1 on a machine with 512 MB, and it can't hold any more than that. (Samba Server on a P3 machine that is almost silent but has a 1TB drive to just put stuff on.) So I will leave it to you to actually run VirtualBox Open Source Edition on 5.3.1. :)

A word of advice: Once you go to all the trouble of making a Virtual Disk Image, and install Windows XP to it... using a given version of VirtualBox... you must keep using that version of VirtualBox. If you change versions of VirtualBox... then Windows XP in all it's brilliance, is going to detect that it is on a different machine and reward you with a BSOD on bootup. That happened to me, when Knoppix 5.3.1 came out, and I used the same XP-vdi file from my earlier efforts in Knoppix 5.1.1. BSOD. If I could find a good way to backup windows... to my Samba Server for instance... I might try upgrading that way. Maybe I will play with Norton Ghost inside that VM. After deleting all the hardware and installing just standard hardware in that windows of course. In short, plan on staying with a particular version of VirtualBox once you opt to build a vm with it and then the customizing that ensues.

That of course brings another question... OSE or the Full VirtualBox. Are they interchangable at least? Knoppix 5.3.1 has version 1.5.6_OSE and I have version 1.5.6 full. So enough hardware difference must be there to trigger a BSOD when trying to interchange between them. Maybe I just needed to install the guest additions on the ose version... I dunno. I just keep the same version, and that solved my problem. But I am not a VM geek. Gilles Van Ruymbeke is! This should get you running on Virtualbox.
Gilles can probably help you with getting the vmWare kernel module compiled and working in Knoppix. If anyone knows... it would be Gilles. I would suggest pm'ing Gilles... and explain your vmWare situation. He may even have a generic module handy. But tell him I sent you... and point him here to at least establish some history of your problem.

Now I am off to install Ghost into a vm... and see what I can do along those lines. I'm just curious.
Good Luck!

[johnrw]

Joe,

I think I'll make a short list... for using VirtualBox-OSE from the dvd first, then from a hdinstall. The first assumes that you have just booted the Knoppix 5.3.1 dvd... and have no persistent home to preserve any changes with.

Session:
1. As root -> Edit /etc/group : near the bottom look for vboxusers:x:141: and change it to vboxusers:x:141:knoppix
2. As root -> Execute modprobe vboxdrv
3. As root -> Execute /etc/init.d/vboxirtualbox-ose start
4. Logout of that session, don't restart the machine but pick logout. KDE will restart...

For Knoppix 5.3.1 hard disk installs, or even with a stock Knoppix 5.3.1 and a persistent home in use.
1. As root -> Edit /etc/group : near the bottom look for vboxusers:x:141: and change it to vboxusers:x:141:knoppix where knoppix is your logon user name. Adjust when needed.
2. As root -> Edit /etc/modules : add vboxdrv to the bottom of the list
3. As root -> Execute update-rc.d virtualbox-ose defaults 80 20
4. Reboot or do steps 2,3, and 4 from the first group... to get it running without reboot.

Starting Virtualbox by the menuitem... K->System->VirtualBox OSE (Open Source Edition) worked for me on a straight Knoppix 5.3.1 dvd session.
There is my short version. :)

One more thing... once you have got windows installed... and are done with the Virtual CD... pick Devices->Install Guest Additions.
It will download them... as an iso file, to a directory in your $HOME

Edit:add tags
KNOPPIX531DVD FIXSUGGESTED

[joeschmoe40]

Joe,

I think I'll make a short list... for using VirtualBox-OSE from the dvd first, then from a hdinstall. The first assumes that you have just booted the Knoppix 5.3.1 dvd... and have no persistent home to preserve any changes with.

Session:
1. As root -> Edit /etc/group : near the bottom look for vboxusers:x:141: and change it to vboxusers:x:141:knoppix
2. As root -> Execute modprobe vboxdrv
3. As root -> Execute /etc/init.d/vboxirtualbox-ose start
4. Logout of that session, don't restart the machine but pick logout. KDE will restart...
etc, etc.

First, thank you very much for going to the trouble to research and document all of this. I mean that seriously; it is always good to share information. Note, incidentally, that I am not so much interested in getting it to work on reboot (since I prefer not to reboot), but just in establishing whether it works or not. So, for me, just doing the "insmod" and seeing if that gets it working, is the ticket.

However, having said that, I think you've proven my point that it (virtualbox) isn't "just works". If you have to do all this futzing to get it to work, then it isn't "ready for prime time". And, as I said, I'm quite happy with Win4Lin, which is "just works". But it requires (a small and insignificant, but nonetheless real) payment, so it doesn't fit into the "everything should be free" model.

Thanks, also, for the pointer to "Giles" - (if I can establish contact) I will ask him about the VMWare module. If I had that, I wouldn't have to bother with virtualbox at all. Also, it occurs to me that it would be good if the Knoppix packagers could somehow either include or provide a URL for the VMWare module on the DVD. I understand, of course, that they can't actually include VMWare itself (but anyone can download it for themselves). It would nice if the module could be made available, though.

[johnrw]

joe,
Of course you are welcome. I do it for Klaus Knopper... as my way of saying thanks. The Knoppix packagers consist of a total of one man. Though lately, Klaus has been less active producing new releases, I came to know Knoppix as the best bleeding edge linux available in one download. You must be new to Open Source software. They way I see it... it's kind of like the movie Shane. You have those hired guns on one side... and some honest men on the other. Years ago, I couldn't imagine a world with linux in it. Today, I can't imagine a world without it. :) Who should I thank? Well the list is long... probably starting with Richard Stallman. Okay, okay... gnu-linux. That's for Richard!

Now about the 'everything should be free' model... well I wouldn't go that far... and well that part turned into a rant almost. So I chopped it out. :)

But in my experience, Open Source software is really responsive to it's users... where Microsoft's transmit a bug to a black hole is hardly satisfying. Now I think I have finished the process on VirtualBox by adding an item to the Official bugs list on the 5.3.1 DVD here. http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Bugs/5.3.1DVD#VirtualBox-OSE_incomplete_setup

I think, Bill Gates stepping out, just days ahead of the end of XP licensing, is poetry. XP is the best they are ever going to do.
The built in memory limit... 3GB for XP, will eventually render it insufficient for new pc's. By then we will be running XP DOS boxes in Knoppix 12.0.1 with 16GB host machines commonplace. Then 32 and 64GB... but my wife says... she is gonna die with Firefox 2 and XP... even if it is in a VM on super fast machine running gnu-linux underneath. I hope by then, everyone is getting paid something, enough to keep things moving upwards... but not enough to own a country or 2. I do think the OS should be Application Neutral.

Years ago, I could hardly imagine a world that had gnu-linux in it. Now, I can't imagine a world without it.

[joeschmoe40]

joe,
Of course you are welcome. I do it for Klaus Knopper... as my way of saying thanks. The Knoppix packagers consist of a total of one man. Though lately, Klaus has been less active producing new releases, I came to know Knoppix as the best bleeding edge linux available in one download. You must be new to Open Source software. They way I see it... it's kind of like the movie Shane. You have those hired guns on one side... and some honest men on the other. Years ago, I couldn't imagine a world with linux in it. Today, I can't imagine a world without it. :) Who should I thank? Well the list is long... probably starting with Richard Stallman. Okay, okay... gnu-linux. That's for Richard!


First, there's no need to rant; I think we are on the same side here.

Second, I didn't need to do any of that fancy stuff - all that's needed is to insmod (or modprobe) the module. Boom, you're done. For what it is worth, my whole point in posting on this thread was simply to point out that it didn't "just work" out of the box, in the distributed version (KNOPPIX5.3.1DVD-EN). I guess I was surprised to see you claim that it did.

Note, incidentally, that it bothers me that Linux has gotten so Windows-y lately. To me, all that stuff that you listed (changing various files, then rebooting and hoping everything works on the reboot) is the Windows way of doing things. Just insmod'ing the module and going on is the Linux way.

Third, some observations about VirtualBox, now that I have had a chance to play with it a bit:

Pro:
1) I got XP working in it and it seems to boot XP faster than any other emulator or real PC that I've run XP on. This is good, but I wonder how they do it.

2) It seems to be easier on the CPU (measured with "top") than other emulators.

Con:
1) It doesn't have the "floating windows" capability of Win4Lin. That would be nice.

2) It doesn't have the "no touch" install of XP (like Win4Lin). This is nifty - where you just put in your Windows registration code and say "Go" and it does the whole install without further interaction. I think VMWare also has this, but I've not done that yet.

3) Interestingly, I could not get Linux to boot in VirtualBox - I tried several different distros - they all failed in different ways. Is this supposed to work (like it does with most "generic" emulators, e.g., Bochs, VMWare) or is it Windows-only (as is Win4Lin) ? Note that DOS (from a Win98 CD) also works in VirtualBox.

[joeschmoe40]

One more thing I wanted to mention about VirtualBox on the Knoppix DVD.

(This next is true on the HD install (knx2hd) - haven't checked on the DVD boot.)

The GuestAdditions file isn't present. This is the file VBoxGuestAdditions.iso - it is nowhere on the system.

Note that I was able to snarf it off the VirtualBox web site, with a fair amount of futzing (it's not there directly; you have to download one of the distributions and manually extract it from the file - but as I say, that's the Linux way!)

[johnrw]

Joe,

Please, don't look at the Devices menuitem... when VirtualBox is running a Guest OS. :)
On some of the other points you bring up... when I said "...turned into a rant..." I wasn't meaning at you... but in a more general sense.
Please do keep it in mind, that this thread started when Knoppix 5.1.1 was the latest version... and VirtualBox was not on the cd or dvd. It had to be installed. It really is a different conversation to have, when talking about Knoppix 5.3.1, which has a version already, and whether to run the OSE or proprietary version that has the usb support. It's been a few days, and I got sidetracked... but I had started out testing whether the Knoppix 5.3.1 version could use the vdi images from the version I had downloaded... and I think they are the same versions. I never persued it because of the silly usb support unavailable in VirtualBox OSE... and that just happens to be the exact thing I needed available in this project, to monitor the TED 1001 box I had purchased. As a footnote or a landmark of some kind... I wound up putting Openwrt in a modified Linksys router(I added the second USB port to do this) and using a python script crafted by Micah Dowty, I could save the data... to a usb thumbdrive, or even telnet into it and see the live data. A 10 watt router with no moving parts.

Now since your best case scenario was to use a VMWare method... let me re-introduce you to Gilles Van Ruymbeke.
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=118954#118954
He even asks for feedback. I'd work with him on it if I were you.

Ok... what the heck... here's a couple of pictures... The model of the router I used is a Linksys WRTSL54GS. I also turned off it's transmitter... in case you wondered. Although the TED is sitting right next to my other router... a WRT54G v2.0, it receives the data just fine. In case anyone is wondering... No... I do not work for Energy Inc... am not affiliated with them in any way, except as a customer.
http://ted4linux.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/OpenWrt/Graphics/Ted-wrtsl54gs-endTable.jpg
http://ted4linux.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/OpenWrt/Graphics/Ted-wrtsl54gs-side.jpg

JW: edited to change image locations from comcast.

[johnrw]

I went off on this a little bit :)
Ted4Linux (http://code.google.com/p/ted4linux/wiki/theWRTSL54GS)

http://ted4linux.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/OpenWrt/Graphics/Statistics_Menu.png