NTFS mounted read/write - Still can't rename folders

[Lobotom]

HI people, after a long venturing into the forum, I couldn't find an answer that suits me, so I make a new post.

First things first, my problem :
I recovery-boot Knoppix live CD to rescue a WinXP NTFS HD (single partition).
After a bit of struggle to make HD read/write (had to use mount -o remount,rw as right-clicked-changes wouldn't work) I can write on the HD, but can't rename directories.
Tried tons of mounting, unmounting, changing permissions and mods, on /mnt, on /dev/hda1, whatever... I can write on HD but renaming something gets me an "Access/permission denied" or such (not too sure anymore of the exact message).

Context :
I'm a Linux beginner, know a bit my stuff about permissions and mods, mounts, that kinda things, but ain't a pro.
I rescue this HD for another person meaning I can't try anything possible.
His WinXP won't boot (blue screen) dunno if HD corruption or what, and he wants to fetch back 18Go of personal movies and pix, which are in his Documents and Settings.
I don't dare reinstalling XP right away, I'm unsure but I won't take the risk the old Documents and Settings would be overwritten.
ALL I want to do with Knoppix is successfuly renaming Docs and Sets to another name so I can reinstall XP and later network transfer his pix/movie bulk.

My attempts included su command lines (btw does it help to create a su password first ? or same as with a no-password su ?) and in my many attempts the best I could achieve was :
once the the renaming launched, dozens of minutes of HD activity started, when it is over, renaming wasn't effective (I suppose a background warning for permission denied had to be done for each and every sub-folder / sub-file)
OR, the much more promising result : renaming started without complaining, a few seconds later computer freezes... :D

Any help on this very frustrating failure of a modest need is greatly appreciated.

[Harry Kuhman]

...after a long venturing into the forum, I couldn't find an answer that suits me,...
You want to write to a NTFS partition with Knoppix. Presumably you want to do this safely and not destroy all of the data on the partition or make it inaccessible. There may not be an answer that suits you. You say that you have long ventured into the forum, so I'm guessing that you have seen this mentioned many times but it's just not the answer that you want.

Some people occasionally report writing to NTFS with success, or at least that they are unaware of any damage that they have done. The only reports of this that seem to me to potentially be viable involve 5.3.1 and a special driver (not the default driver), that can only be used at the text level, not the GUI level. As far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't risk even that, my data is too important. If I need to use Knoppix for a recovery, then I'm going to use it to make a backup of the data and then reinstall windows, not risk writing to NTFS with Knoppix and risk further problems.

[Lobotom]

Thanks for taking the time to share your point of view on this, I really appreciate.

Possibly I'm into the category you mention, as I can write to the NTFS partition : at least I can create new directories from GUI file browser.
I'm too much of a noob to know what driver it used, I simply let KNOPPIX do its thing, although you're right about I had to mount the partition read/write form the root command line, GUI wouldn't let me.

Now my frustration is I can write to the damn thing, but somehow I get an 'permission denied' when I try to modify any non-empty directory's name. Which is precisely what I wanna do : rename "Docs and Sets".
As an answer to your warnings : I got good faith it didn't screw up the partition entirely : it still seems in place when accessed from WinXP recovery console.

Additionnal notes :
- When I try to mount from GUI I get a refusal saying the partition is already in use... which I don't get from su command line. Could my problem be that the partition gets duplicate-mounted or such and so limits my modifications ?
- Of course I tried to rename directory from WinXP recovery console, and of course that dumb thing won't let me (just mentionning it almost started me on the eternal anti-crosoft rant, but I'll keep my temper... once again :? ).

[kirol]

Lobotom: you haven't stated what version of knoppix you are using. This is important for us to be able to provide sensible advice.

Unfortunately I find the NTFS situation rather confusing when it comes to knoppix. 5.1.x and 5.3.x should be safe. Knoppix uses its own mount.ntfs shell script for mounting NTFS filesystems. This version tries ntfs-3g first, then the kernel driver it this fails. This is clever yet confusing as, even though fstab identifies a filesystem as ntfs, knoppix will actually uses ntfs-3g under the cover to mount it. I do not know if this same behaviour is still present for knoppix 6.x.

Having said this, i'd advise using 5.3.x rather than the aging 5.1 line (which had a pre-v1 ntfs-3g). 5.3.1 only exists as a DVD (but there's a nice Japanese trimmed-down cdrom version if you prefer).

Personally I always prefer to be explicit and hand-mount NTFS filesystems when I intent to write to them, e.g:

# mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 /media/sda1
Note that even the kernel driver is supposed to be safer these days. Safer than it used to be but still less capable than ntfs-3g. It may refuse some operations that are known to be risky (perhaps that's what you're seeing?). Also non-ascii characters in filenames can create confusion and require getting the mount and unicode options right, even with 3g.

[ckamin]

Lobotom

Why take the chance on corrupting your NTFS partition by writing to it with Linux? There are other options that use the original Micro$oft drivers. Google "Bart PE" and/or "Windows PE". Microsoft offers a PE version for Vista, that will allow you to work with your NTFS partitions. The Vista PE requires a little work to extract the PE tool. You would have to make a Bart PE disk, but they are worth the effort if you need to access NTFS partitions. They are both "live" disks using Window$. There are others available as well, but these are the most popular. You can add different tools to customize the disks if you need to.

I would use Knoppix or Linux as a "Read Only" tool for NTFS. I would not wish to chance data loss by writing to it, even with the latest linux drivers.