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View Full Version : Knoppix_V6.2.1, First impressions



Capricorny
02-15-2010, 09:27 AM
Very good overall, some bugs have been fixed, like
- Compiz now seems to work with all screen resolutions
- VMware products seem to run without recompilation of kernel, as was necessary for me in 6.2

Some persist, like
- External screen resolution is still not detected properly, same shit as in 6.2, it was correct in 6.0.1.
- Same package conflicts, or worse. (Of course depending on package.) Now I can't even install K3b when running from the CD version, in order to burn the DVD! Must use another tool for that.

Some possible new, but may depend on errors in my unverified install. (Slow burning and right md5sums though)
- Screensaver locked up, asking for password, without being set up for that. Had to turn machine off.
- Didn't create persistent image after asking for size and getting correct parameter. Manual setup of image worked, though.

Update:
I could not make the DVD created from the ISO image boot, but used the CD, creating a first USB stick. Booting from that, transfering the system to a new stick. Loop-mounted the ISO image, and copied the KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX image to the new stick. (Plus the manually set up persistent image.)
Eliminating stable(!) from the repositories seemed to reduce the package conflict level somewhat, and i could get my R-2.10.X.
KDE users may have hard times getting everything to work with new installations - I stick with LXDE for the moment, and use a few KDE tools like Konqueror and Kaffeine. Works OK for me.

I think it's time for Ryumbeke's tricks getting more widely used, avoid working with the CD/DVD altogether.

Conclusion so far:
With the known kernel header bugs in 6.2, everyone with a need for compiling modules etc should rather start off with 6.2.1 than go by the kernel recompile route.
Graphics is improved a bit, everything just feels more tidy. But don't expect to find your old favorites all gathered on the DVD. I would not recommend using 6.2.1 with much less than 3GB persistent image, even starting from the DVD, if you are going to install/upgrade some packages. And you probably are.

That people stay with 5.X has its natural reasons, but I think 6.2.1 has removed most (but not all) of the reasons for using 6.0.1 instead of 6.2.X. I think we should direct all newbies to 6.2.1, unless some really, really grave problems show up. (In which case I think Klaus will be quick to release a bugfix.) Another piece of solid work by Klaus, thank you!

Capricorny
02-16-2010, 02:06 PM
I think there is need for a bugfix release: The ordinary way to do /dev/loop* devices is to create /dev/loop0 .. /dev/loop7. And so it is done in 6.2.1 init.
BUT - mount no longer uses those, and if you issue losetup -a to list the loop devices set up, you only get an entry for dev/loop/0.
losetup -f should give you the first free loop device on a newly booted system, but there is none. Only /dev/loop/0 is created at boot time, and that is occupied by knoppix-data.img when you have a persistent image.

If you, for example, need to loop-mount an ISO-image, you are stuck. I ran into the problem when my extra persistent images knoppix-data2.img and knoppix-data3.img did not show up as mounted, even if they should have been by /etc/rc.local.

I fixed it by issuing


mknod -m660 /dev/loop/1 b 7 1
mknod -m660 /dev/loop/2 b 7 2
...etc..

and mounting by hand. Copying the commands into /etc/rc.local worked well.

We can't expect people to get around this bug, maybe they won't even understand why things don't work. So this should be cared for in a bugfix release og 6.2.1, I think.

stevesr0
02-16-2010, 04:19 PM
I am blown away - that is really impressed by the 6.2.1 version of Knoppix in the few days that I have been using it (as a Live CD). .

The things that impress me are the ease of wifi login (so far), the ability to download and install the programs I want for basic user tasks and the stability of mouse use, compared to the distro I have been using for the past year.

I look forward to switching to a "poor man's type of install", adding it to my existing hd multiboot config with grub4dos.

The annoying lock up when the machine is allowed to go into screensaver mode - asking for a password - is easily gotten around by using Control-Alt-Backspace to get to a shell which then launches a new X display. The keyring password isn't accepted, but by hitting deny a couple of times, you get a screen which asks for the security code (WEP in my case) and then you are good to go. (I suspect, I have generated three extra x windows and I would like to know how to check and close the extra ones.)

Overall, so far delightful. I noted that even Harry Kuhman said nice things about this version!!

Steve

Capricorny
02-16-2010, 07:15 PM
The annoying lock up when the machine is allowed to go into screensaver mode - asking for a password - is easily gotten around by using Control-Alt-Backspace to get to a shell which then launches a new X display. The keyring password isn't accepted, but by hitting deny a couple of times, you get a screen which asks for the security code (WEP in my case) and then you are good to go. (I suspect, I have generated three extra x windows and I would like to know how to check and close the extra ones.)


I would call that method 0 for dealing with the xscreensaver problem. You don't kill the screensaver, you kill X, and get the offender up and running again together with X. Here are a few other ways to get rid of it:


1. Under main menu, preferences, click Screensaver. You get setup window. Open the file menu, click Kill daemon.
2. You can kill it directly from the command line, by issuing the command xscreensaver-command -exit
3. You can get the process number (pid) by issuing ps ax | grep 'xscreen' and run the command kill -9 <pid>
4. You could try to modify knoppix-startx to kill the xscreensaver daemon.
5. You can comment out the important line in /etc/xdg/lxsession/LXDE/autostart: #@xscreensaver -no-splash -no-capture-stderr

#5 is the permanent solution. Possibly we could start xscreensaver from our own X startup scripts, and get more sensible behavior, but I haven't found a safe way to do that yet. The old, tried and true ways of starting things in X don't seem to work the way they did.

As for poor man's HD installs, it is as easy as copying the whole KNOPPIX directory (it includes persistent images and everything) to a FAT32 partition on the harddisk, and start from USB with knoppix fromhd=/dev/sda2 (If KNOPPIX is found on the second partition on the hard disk.) I'm a bit usure about booting mechanisms, so I personally prefer to leave the booting setup on the hard disk untouched until the technical issues are more sorted out.

stevesr0
02-17-2010, 04:05 AM
Since disabling the screensaver and leaving the computer on with the lid up (this is a laptop), it hasn't gone into any password protected mode.

On this laptop, I have only NTFS and ext2 (or is it 3?) partitions. I set up a multiboot with Win XP, and three varieties of Puppy Linux following instructions of the Lin N Win project (run by ICPUG, who is a member of the Knoppix fora).

I am interested in adding Knoppix to my multiboot, following the Lin N Win project instructions (or the ones posted on this forum by Gilles Ruymbeke).
This is as I understand it, basically substitutes a hard drive for a CD. I prefer not to have a FAT32 partition on my hard drive, if I don't need one. As long as I can read and writer to an NTFS partition (without compression) using NTFS 3G, I am happy using only NTFS (for a windows OS) and ext3 or ext4 for linux (plus a swap partition).

Steve

Capricorny
02-17-2010, 11:10 AM
Since disabling the screensaver and leaving the computer on with the lid up (this is a laptop), it hasn't gone into any password protected mode.

On this laptop, I have only NTFS and ext2 (or is it 3?) partitions. I set up a multiboot with Win XP, and three varieties of Puppy Linux following instructions of the Lin N Win project (run by ICPUG, who is a member of the Knoppix fora).

I am interested in adding Knoppix to my multiboot, following the Lin N Win project instructions (or the ones posted on this forum by Gilles Ruymbeke).
This is as I understand it, basically substitutes a hard drive for a CD. I prefer not to have a FAT32 partition on my hard drive, if I don't need one. As long as I can read and writer to an NTFS partition (without compression) using NTFS 3G, I am happy using only NTFS (for a windows OS) and ext3 or ext4 for linux (plus a swap partition).

Steve
Yes, whatever way you disable xscreensaver, you avoid the password problem. Whether or not you shut the lid - if no new bugs have been introduced in 6.2.1 :)

The "common wisdom" still strongly advises against writing to NTFS partitions from Linux. One of the reasons seems to be that NTFS is a moving target, so you have no guarantee against subtle errors introduced, for example with new Service Packs. I just follow that advice, and always use FAT32 as common ground for Windows and Linux. That is guaranteed to work without much problems, but if mounting NTFS rw works for you, that's of course simpler.

I have always the computer set up for multiboot, with GRUB, but so far, I have not felt any need to integrate Knoppix in that. One important reason is that I have been running several Knoppix versions in parallel, because of different problems with each release. In fact, 6.2.1 is the first candidate for a very long time to become the only Knoppix in use.

Edit 20100218:
Instead of writing another post, I put it here: Most of the version conflicts in 6.2.1 are eliminated by just dropping the 'stable' repositories: Basic as well as updates. That may seem counter-intuitive, but should not give much problems for Knoppix' intended use. 'Stable' in Debian is really stable.. So it's becoming an even stronger candidate for me.

ICPUG
02-18-2010, 06:54 PM
stevesr0

I am currently running Knoppix 6.2 under the Lin'N'Win method on Windows XP.

As you have already set up Puppy this way it is easy to add Knoppix.

Create a directory for your Knoppix files

Copy the following two files from the Knoppix disk to the directory:
linux
KNOPPIX

get hold of rymbeke's minirt.gz by extracting it from the download from here and store in the same directory:
http://s94002264.onlinehome.us/grub/knx620k.zip

Note: Rymbeke has updated this to kn620m.zip but I have not tested that one. I am also assuming this will still be valid for Knoppix 6.2.1. I don't have 6.2.1 to test as yet.

Then add some lines to your menu.lst file similar to those listed here:
http://www.icpug.org.uk/national/linnwin/step4-knoppix.htm
changing the reference to the directory name and specific cheat codes for your equipment as required.

Then reboot.

stevesr0
02-19-2010, 02:12 AM
Hi ICPUG,

Thanks for feedback.

I love your Lin N Win site; it is so clear and step-by-step.

I assume that this sort of imitation LIveCD on HD install is free from the problems generally mentioned for a "true" HD install.

Steve

Capricorny
02-19-2010, 03:50 AM
I just tried to add booting of a harddisk copy of 6.2.1 KNOPPIX structure to the GRUB menu of an ordinary Linux install, and it seems to work quite OK.
GRUB lives in the /boot directory of the Linux root partition, so modifications must be done there. In my case, I have a Win XP partition as /dev/sda1, and a Linux (Mandriva) install on /dev/sda2.
I did the whole modification, copying and all, from Knoppix 6.2.1

1. Mount the root partition, in this case /dev/sda2, rw. (In this case as /media/sda2)
2. Enter /media/sda2/boot, create a new directory knoppix.621.
3. Copy /mnt-system/boot/syslinux/linux and /mnt-system/boot/syslinux/minirt.gz to knoppix.621.
4. Edit GRUB's menu file, /media/sda2/boot/grub/menu.lst, adding one or more entries for Knoppix. Use the output from the command cat /proc/cmdline as the command line for Knoppix. It won't be done interactively anymore, but you can create several entries with different options instead. My first entry looks like this:


title Knoppix-6.2.1 on /dev/sda5
kernel (hd0,1)/boot/knx.621/linux ramdisk_size=100000 lang=en vt.default_utf8=0 apm=power-off vga=791 initrd=minirt.gz nomce quiet loglevel=0 tz=localtime BOOT_IMAGE=linux fromhd=/dev/sda5
initrd (hd0,1)/boot/knx.621/minirt.gz

5. Copy the whole /mnt-system/KNOPPIX directory to a FAT32 formatted hard disk partition, in this case /dev/sda5. You may have different boot menu entries with KNOPPIX images in different partitions, specify with fromhd=.
6. Reboot and enjoy!

The screen resolution will often be wrong with this setup, the tedious and obvious fix is to give screen explicitly in the boot entry. Screen resizing almost works by choosing Monitor Settings from the Preferences menu.
I have two persistent images set up in addition to the basic one, all inside of KNOPPIX, and everything just got copied with no problems. It is a structure with about 16GB altogether, the DVD image + 3 persistent 4GB each.

Beware that the "Install Knoppix to flash" menu option may no longer work well. But if you want to copy/backup the system, it's simply to copy the KNOPPIX directory to the backup/install media.

Edit 20100219:
Two problems with screen resolution from Monitor Settings is that the region outside the original resolution may not be updated properly when resolution is increased, and that the mouse pointer may vanish. Both can be simply "fixed" by rotating the Compiz cube a bit, it seems.

garaden
02-24-2010, 02:10 AM
I'm curious about your setup here; that seems like an awful lot of cheatcodes, but since I've only been using Knoppix for a few days I expect a little shell shock :) Do you mind explaining what each of them do?

Capricorny
02-24-2010, 07:59 AM
I'm curious about your setup here; that seems like an awful lot of cheatcodes, but since I've only been using Knoppix for a few days I expect a little shell shock :) Do you mind explaining what each of them do?

Neither you nor I need to know.. It's the default list. To work with this, you should know your way around a little, this is from the default .cfg file. You might for example try a grep -R 'initrd=' /* to see where initrd is specified.
But if you are new to this, I don't think manipulating the booting process is the best place to start learning.

garaden
02-24-2010, 08:28 AM
That's what I was afraid of... I thought it looked an awful lot like the voodoo magic that comes with an HDD install. I'm surprised though: I thought simply loading the kernel would do the same thing as "knoppix" at the isolinux prompt. If I'm mistaken, that explains a lot. I'll take a closer look at this ".cfg" of which you speak. Thanks!

As for learning, the booting process is mostly what I'm interested in learning about. I know my way around Ubuntu and GRUB, but not Knoppix, and I've never really taken an in-depth look at the boot process (loading modules, mounting filesystems, etc) for any distro. No time like the present!

Capricorny
02-24-2010, 09:30 AM
....
As for learning, the booting process is mostly what I'm interested in learning about. I know my way around Ubuntu and GRUB, but not Knoppix, and I've never really taken an in-depth
look at the boot process (loading modules, mounting filesystems, etc) for any distro. No time like the present!

Then you may be in for some pleasant surprises! :) In fact, I had never thought is was that easy to set up GRUB to boot Knoppix cleanly, as Knoppix uses another booting mechanism by default. A good way to experiment, might be to look at the Knoppix 6.2 cheat codes, and set up a number of menu.lst entries, with various choices of cheat codes and values. The look into the different parts of the booting process - I think you can find sources for most in the Knoppix repository, if the scripts are not enough.

I personally prefer to have a standard Linux HD install to fall back on (in my case Mandriva, mostly for historical reasons), and I use the GRUB from that. Taking backups of the /boot directory system might be a good idea.

mecho
03-20-2010, 08:24 PM
I am a newbie to Linux, but I am very persuasive. Since I started learning linux 2 months ago I tried a few versions to find which suits me best, and so far Knoppix is the best for me at this stage. I find it very good for learning purposes as to achieve what I want I have to tru the whole learning process. Thanks to Capricorny and Krisha for their activity in this forum I learn a lot from them.
Now I tried both 6.2 and 6.2.1 and for me 6.2 runs smoother then 6.2.1. THere is a Intel video driver problem in 6.2.1. For some reason the new Intel driver that is included in 6.2.1 does not work with 855GME chip that I have in my laptop and the mkxorgconfig which is included in 6.2.1 does not even try to use vesa as a fallback it just locks.
I had to copy mkxorgconfig from 6.2 to make 6.2.1 work properly with vesa driver. There is one more thing in 6.2.1 - Network Manager does not work properly after logout-login. It loses connection or does not connect at all.
So I am using 6.2 now and I can say that I like it alot with the exception of the kernel header problems everything else I find perfect

Harry Kuhman
03-20-2010, 08:55 PM
I am a newbie to Linux, but I am very persuasive....
Do you know what the word persuasive means? From the context I think you might have wanted to use persistent.

I don't see a lot of differences (or any) between 6.2 and 6.2.1 myself, but there are a lot of things missing in 6.2.x that were in 5.x.

Capricorny
03-21-2010, 12:03 AM
....
Now I tried both 6.2 and 6.2.1 and for me 6.2 runs smoother then 6.2.1. THere is a Intel video driver problem in 6.2.1. For some reason the new Intel driver that is included in 6.2.1 does not work with 855GME chip that I have in my laptop and the mkxorgconfig which is included in 6.2.1 does not even try to use vesa as a fallback it just locks.
I had to copy mkxorgconfig from 6.2 to make 6.2.1 work properly with vesa driver. There is one more thing in 6.2.1 - Network Manager does not work properly after logout-login. It loses connection or does not connect at all.
....

Interesting. I noted X-related bugs being introduced from 6.0.1 to 6.2, now you find new creeping in from 6.2 to 6.2.1.
It could make a case for remastering, especially if most could be put into a script.

BTW, I'm writing this running 6.2.1 with a wlan connection - but I had to use Windows to start the wlan, then (rebooting) warm-starting Knoppix..:)
It should be possible to start it in Knoppix, too.

It is kind of sad that Knoppix used to be in a class of its own with hardware detection/initialization, but now other distros seem to work better out of the box with several hardware configurations. I wonder if this would have been better with more of a community effort.

mecho
03-21-2010, 04:36 AM
Yes I ment persistent :) excuse my english - I am doing my best trying to express myself properly in english. It's not my native language.
Anyway according to me there are quite a few differences between 6.2 and 6.2.1
MOst of the packages are newer versions from unstable and some of the knoppix scripts are changed too, as I mentioned before mkxorgconfig and knoppix-autoconfig a some of them.
I also think Capricorny is right, if knoppix is more of a community effort it would get more stable and better polished. Even if it comes down to error reporting

Gemu
05-30-2010, 07:28 PM
6.2.1 DVD is great it just seems like there is always a problem to install anything. Which is the only reason I kinda prefer Ubuntu for every day use. I can'
t get youtube-dl to install for instance.

I like the 5.3 panel better just for flexability.


All the web stuff works extremely well though, I think as good as anything out there. And it never seems to hang like older versions.

If 5.3 had all the latest iceweasel updates you could call it 6.4 and relax a while. :mrgreen:

Capricorny
06-05-2010, 01:21 PM
6.2.1 DVD is great it just seems like there is always a problem to install anything. Which is the only reason I kinda prefer Ubuntu for every day use. I can'
t get youtube-dl to install for instance.

I like the 5.3 panel better just for flexability.


All the web stuff works extremely well though, I think as good as anything out there. And it never seems to hang like older versions.

If 5.3 had all the latest iceweasel updates you could call it 6.4 and relax a while. :mrgreen:

I think many longtime Knoppix users may not be fully aware that the latest CD/DVD versions aren't really optimized for CD/DVD, they must be installed on writable media to work really well. When that is done, usual Debian packages will mostly work, but it may be a bit of a hassle to get all versions right. Everything I have tried with 6.2.1 has succeeded.

Gemu
09-08-2010, 05:09 AM
I think many longtime Knoppix users may not be fully aware that the latest CD/DVD versions aren't really optimized for CD/DVD, they must be installed on writable media to work really well. When that is done, usual Debian packages will mostly work, but it may be a bit of a hassle to get all versions right. Everything I have tried with 6.2.1 has succeeded.

. I really do like 6.2.1 I miss being able to flatten out the terminal as in the 5xx series to make room for more windows. In fact I kept my default term about 2.5 inchs tall and two inches wider. I miss the desktop pager. Every time you open a new window in 6.2.1 it covers up the Knoppix folder, Root Terminal and Documents folder and I find myself dragging them out of the way regularly. I guess your supposed to hit th flip button. I love the way it mounts its file systems now, with a considerable amount of freedom to create new folders and move things around a little. Click to mount and go right to work in the terminal. Hit df to see where things are mounted. It seems like the older system aways occupied cdrom no matter what you did. Now you have sr0 for cd's. Another plus. The noppix-data.img inside the KNOPPIX folder is definitely an improvement. I understand you can burn it to cd with the knoppix-data image inside and boot the cd and it will work. I remember on 5 series many times not being able to write to the hard drive that KNOPPIX was mounted on because you couldn't unmount it to make it writeable. 5.1 barely fit on the second partition of my usb and the knoppix.img was mounted on the first so I couldn't even correct my grub menu while booted into it. I think if the 5xx series had had a free to write system it would have been more appealing even today. I still love the 5 series but I think the developers are heading in the right direction. The only real issue I have had with 6.2.1 is no available loop to mount an image on. But I found the answer to it hear on Knoppix forums. Love it, love it.