Creating Knoppix-data.img

[matollik]

I have Knoppix 6.4.3 installed from CD on a 4GB memory stick. When booting it is inquired whether I want to create a persistent data image. I have given a number like 1500MB or 1500 but no image is created. In what form exactly should the amount be given and what mistakes can one make? Any advice is much appreciated. Matti Ollikainen

[Werner P. Schulz]

... type in only a number minor/equal free space on stick followed by <Enter>. You must be quick, Knoppix isn't waiting very long :-)

If you get the question for encryption all went well; otherwise reboot and try once more.

Greetings Werner * http://www.wp-schulz.de/knoppix/summary.html
"Build personal Recovery-CD with Knoppix (Knoppix remaster)"

[matollik]

Thanks your advice resulted a solution so it seems. Encryption inquiry followed and then an image file was formatted. Now I hope all customizations i'll choose to consider will stick unlike they have so far! Matti Ollikainen

[yannos]

[QUOTE=Werner P. Schulz;122448]... You must be quick, Knoppix isn't waiting very long :-)
< Just wondering ... is there a manner to pause/step the boot? is like a 'expert' install where each stage is given to change option? Yannos

[utu]

As soon as a single character is entered, the train stops.

[krishna.murphy]

There is indeed an "expert" mode." Once the train is stopped (before ~3 sec. and auto-boot continues) use the command:

knoppix expert

Cheers!
Krishna :mrgreen:

[utu]

I just keep typing, but there's no rush.

[otropogo]

Is there any way at all to create a persistent image file if unable to boot from USB flash or hard drive? I managed to install 6.4.3 CD FS_Knoppix to a 2GB SD card on an external USB card reader on my Intel D865GLC desktop. But I can't find a way to make the desktop boot from that location. And I don't want to install to hard drive. In my recollection, most previous Knoppix versions allowed the creation of a persistent image file without installing to hard drive or USB flash, why can't it be done with 6.4.3?

[otropogo]

Why can't I boot FS_Knoppix from the internal card reader in a laptop? I installed FS_Knoppix 6.4.3 via an external USB card reader on my desktop, but couldn't find a way to boot from it. I then tried attaching the same Hama reader to the usb port of a Toshiba Satellite A500 02-F laptop, and it booted fine off that installation to SD card.

OTOH, when I tried to cut out the middle man and stuck the SD card in the Toshiba's internal flash card reader, it was ignored at bootup. With the external USB reader attached, USB showed up in the boot sequence (which I'd configured to boot USB first) as "generic usb", but with the card in the internal slot, there was no sign of any bootable USB device in the system. How come? And is there any way to boot from such a slot?

[Werner P. Schulz]

Is there any way at all to create a persistent image file if unable to boot from USB flash or hard drive?

... perhaps the answer of Klaus Knopper may help you
http://lists.debian.org/debian-knoppix/2011/01/msg00027.html

Greetings Werner * http://www.wp-schulz.de/knoppix/summary.html
"Build personal Recovery-CD with Knoppix (Knoppix remaster)"

[krishna.murphy]

Why can't I boot FS_Knoppix from the internal card reader in a laptop? I installed FS_Knoppix 6.4.3 via an external USB card reader on my desktop, but couldn't find a way to boot from it. I then tried attaching the same Hama reader to the usb port of a Toshiba Satellite A500 02-F laptop, and it booted fine off that installation to SD card.

OTOH, when I tried to cut out the middle man and stuck the SD card in the Toshiba's internal flash card reader, it was ignored at bootup. With the external USB reader attached, USB showed up in the boot sequence (which I'd configured to boot USB first) as "generic usb", but with the card in the internal slot, there was no sign of any bootable USB device in the system. How come? And is there any way to boot from such a slot?

There's no "native" way, AFAIK, to boot off a device that doesn't show as bootable (that's in the BIOS.) Clearly, it's not because of what's on the card - it boots when hooked up "externally." OTOH, there's more than one way to do anything in Linux. Search these forums for some of the earlier threads on booting with the help of "boot managers" and the like.

Cheers!
Krishna :mrgreen:
p.s. There may be a BIOS update on the mfgrs website, too.

[utu]

@ otropogo

If you normally have usb appliances other than your sd card also in use,
try leaving the other(s) NOT plugged in until after boot.

If this allows you to boot, then try other usb slots for those
other appliances, if you have other slots.

[otropogo]

... perhaps the answer of Klaus Knopper may help you
http://lists.debian.org/debian-knoppix/2011/01/msg00027.html

Greetings Werner * http://www.wp-schulz.de/knoppix/summary.html
"Build personal Recovery-CD with Knoppix (Knoppix remaster)"

Thanks Werner. Your citation looks promising, and I'd like to try it. But it appears, from the context, to be designed to write the persisitent image file to the same location as the flash installation. Where would this command write the image file when the system has been booted from the LiveCD, and how would it find it at boot-up if it wasn't on the partition with FS_Knoppix?

I don't know enough to answer these questions, much less to edit the command so that it would work for my situation. How did Knoppix find the persistent image file in older versions that still booted only from the LiveCD or DVD?

[otropogo]

@ otropogo

If you normally have usb appliances other than your sd card also in use,
try leaving the other(s) NOT plugged in until after boot.

If this allows you to boot, then try other usb slots for those
other appliances, if you have other slots.

Thanks for your suggestion. I tried it, but no cigar. The only USB device I had attached was a mouse. I detached it, powered up, hit the F12 key for the boot options (with the SD card holding FS_Knoppix in the internal card slot), and got a boot list that showed only the DVD burner, the Hard drive, and LAN.

[otropogo]

There's no "native" way, AFAIK, to boot off a device that doesn't show as bootable (that's in the BIOS.) Clearly, it's not because of what's on the card - it boots when hooked up "externally." OTOH, there's more than one way to do anything in Linux. Search these forums for some of the earlier threads on booting with the help of "boot managers" and the like.

Cheers!
Krishna :mrgreen:
p.s. There may be a BIOS update on the mfgrs website, too.

I haven't tried looking for a BIOS update, but I'm thinking that if Toshiba made the slot unbootable, there's probably a reason, it's not just an oversight. I've had lots of problems with boot managers, and even if they cause no trouble in the system, they are always an easy excuse for Windows techs to refuse support. I've even been told by an authorized Dell service centre that dual booting anything but currently supported Windows OSs (meaning Windows 7 and XP), would automatically void my Dell warranty. And when I contacted Dell telephone support they confirmed it!

I know it's bullshit, but I don't enjoy having to claw my way up to level three support for even the simplest problems, just because I'm dual booting Linux. With a LiveCD or usb boot, I can say the Windows system is clean.

[otropogo]

Thanks Werner. Your citation looks promising, and I'd like to try it. But it appears, from the context, to be designed to write the persisitent image file to the same location as the flash installation. Where would this command write the image file when the system has been booted from the LiveCD, and how would it find it at boot-up if it wasn't on the partition with FS_Knoppix?

I don't know enough to answer these questions, much less to edit the command so that it would work for my situation. How did Knoppix find the persistent image file in older versions that still booted only from the LiveCD or DVD?

OK, I've tried the command now, and it performed as I expected. It tried to write the image file to the LiveCd, since that's what booted, and reported that it couldn't do it (can't remember the exact words).

Also, the SD card with the persistent image file for the LiveCD created on the laptop was in the attached USB reader, but the programs saved in it were not loaded.

Clearly, the distro is set up to look for the image file only in the same partition as the booted Knoppix, so even if one could write an image file, you'd have to edit the boot instructions so that Knoppix would look for it elsewhere than the boot partition.

Since Klaus responded to my original inquiry about the reason for this deliberate crippling of the LiveCd by deleting it, I can only conclude the guess I hazarded (to sell 4 and 8GB flash memory) was not far off the mark..

[krishna.murphy]

I haven't tried looking for a BIOS update, but I'm thinking that if Toshiba made the slot unbootable, there's probably a reason, it's not just an oversight. I've had lots of problems with boot managers, and even if they cause no trouble in the system, they are always an easy excuse for Windows techs to refuse support. I've even been told by an authorized Dell service centre that dual booting anything but currently supported Windows OSs (meaning Windows 7 and XP), would automatically void my Dell warranty. And when I contacted Dell telephone support they confirmed it!

I know it's bullshit, but I don't enjoy having to claw my way up to level three support for even the simplest problems, just because I'm dual booting Linux. With a LiveCD or usb boot, I can say the Windows system is clean.

I think you're right - it IS bulls**t (they are always looking for reasons why they don't need to "waste" time on a call.) But I'm pretty sure there's NOT really a good reason the slot's not bootable - could be intentional, but more likely just not working right and not "worth fixing" for them. At least you do have a way to boot Knoppix, with the external card adapter. One option would be to boot a CD, then type in (using appropriate device designation):
knoppix fromhd=/dev/sdx to boot from the "unbootable" memory card slot.

Cheers!
Krishna :mrgreen:

[klaus2008]

Does Knoppix support the internal card reader after boot? Not all card readers are supported by linux. I have got one that needs a special driver and is usable under Windows only. :( Therefore I had to buy another one which also allows me to boot from USB.

[Forester]

Hi otropopo,

Both klaus2008 and krishna.murphy make valid points but they may be assuming too much.

You've two problems:

1) Can Knoppix see your SD card at all ? I hope the answer is yes, otherwise you are stuck.
2) Can your laptop boot from the SD ? The thread so far says no. I am not surprised.

If the answer to 1) is yes but the answer to 2) is no, there is way but first you need to find the answer to 1).

Boot Knoppix from your CD without the SD or any USB stick. Open a console terminal. Type in:


cat /etc/fstabKnoppix is very good at recognising file systems. You should see (among others):


/dev/sr0 /media/sr0 iso9660 ....that's the CD you booted from and something like:


/dev/sda1 /media/sda1 ntfs ....that's the dreaded Windows.

On my laptop, if I plug in a (formatted) USB stick and cat fstab again I now also see:


/dev/sdb1 /media/sdb1 vfat ...If I take the USB stick out agian, the vfat entry disappears. Now if plug in an SD card and I am lucky, a new vfat entry should appear. I am not lucky and my laptop is brand new ! If I put the SD card back in my camera, plug my camera into the laptop's USB port and turn the camera on I am again unlucky. I know that Linux knows I plugged these devices in because:


lsusbshows (one of, depending on which is plugged in):


Bus 002 Device 003: ID 0cf2:6250 ENE Technology, Inc.
Bus 002 Device 005: ID 04cb:020f Fuji Photo Film Co., LtdWhat this means is that Knoppix does not have a driver that knows how to handle these devices (or possibly lacks a udev rules to load the correct drivers). Either way, the answer to question 1 for me is no. The simplest thing to do now is to buy an ordinary USB stick and install Knoppix on it.

If, for you, the answer to question 1 is yes, then make a note of the vfat fstab entry. If you have no other disk devices then it will be /dev/sdb1. If unsure, mount it and check the contents look right (very similar to what the contents of the CD).

Reboot your machine. When the very first Knoppix screen comes up, press the letter k. It will appear next to boot: at the boot. Now, at your leisure, enter


knoppix fromhd=/dev/sdb1carefully and press return. The colourful screen that shows the early stages of the boot should show


Waiting (USB)...and then


Knoppix 6 found at: /dev/sdb1If you don't see the second, you probably typed in the boot parameter incorrectly. Let Knoppix boot, open a console and type:


cat /proc/cmdlineThe tail end of what is output will show what you did type rather than what you thought you typed.

If the boot gets stuck and eventually fails with:


Could not mount disk to /mnt-system. Starting debugging ShellThen your SD card isn't /dev/sdb1. Boot to Knoppix and check the device letter (b in sdb1) against your fstab then try again.

[krishna.murphy]

1) Can Knoppix see your SD card at all ? I hope the answer is yes, otherwise you are stuck.Not entirely (at least not necessarily.) If there is a kernel module available (specific to the memory device, I assume) it can be added to (inserted into) the kernel via the insmod command.

2) Can your laptop boot from the SD ? The thread so far says no. I am not surprised.Yeah, me neither - there are a lot of laptops with a funky BIOS in this world. Another option would be to install to the hard drive instead - it's usually a lot faster, anyway.

Cheers!
Krishna :mrgreen:

[Forester]

Yeah, me neither - there are a lot of laptops with a funky BIOS in this world. Another option would be to install to the hard drive instead - it's usually a lot faster, anyway.
I think otropogo said somewhere he doesn't want to install to HD as he afraid of (Windows) IT Support giving him a ticket.

I suspect the SD reader in laptops are so that kids can swap photos of their friends with their friends through Facebook when their phone's dead. I don't think they are meant for serious use. ;)


If there is a kernel module available (specific to the memory device, I assume) it can be added to (inserted into) the kernel via the insmod command.If a suitable driver does exist you can't just load it into the kernel. You have to compile it for the kernel you are going to load it into. So that probably means getting the source and compiling it under Knoppix. I guess anyone who knows how to do that would not have been asking questions here.

Once the driver is loaded, otropogo would be able to access his SD drive but what is wanted is to redirect the Knoppix boot from DVD to SD using the fromhd= cheatcode. That means getting Knoppix to load the driver early in the boot sequence. The cheatcode cheatsheet says you can do that by putting the module in /modules in the initial ramdisk. Is this still true ? After all, the cheatsheet still describes home= and that isn't valid any more.

The cheatsheet says you'll have to remaster. Naturally. Changing the initial ramdisk (minirt.gz) is not your ordinary «I've removed package xyz and replaced it with my favourite package pqr» kind of remaster but it can be done. The remastered minirt.gz would need to be copied to the SD but the DVD would need the full remastering with the burning of a new DVD at the end.

All this would have to be done without the benefit of persistent data on a dual boot PC at work presumably while otropogo is doing his day job under Windows.

I think otropogo is stuck but, if he's up to the challenge, then I look forward to the Wiki page.

[otropogo]

Once the driver is loaded, otropogo would be able to access his SD drive but what is wanted is to redirect the Knoppix boot from DVD to SD using the fromhd= cheatcode. That means getting Knoppix to load the driver early in the boot sequence. The cheatcode cheatsheet says you can do that by putting the module in /modules in the initial ramdisk. Is this still true ? After all, the cheatsheet still describes home= and that isn't valid any more.

I'm not sure I understand the argument fully. But the problem is basically in the BIOS, and so can't be fixed from within the OS. It's not just the SD slot that's a problem for booting Knoppix from USB. I've also tried tried booting from an SD card in a CoreMicro card reader attached to the same USB port that works with the straight microSD USB adapter. In that case, the Toshiba thinks it's trying to boot from the lan and keeps trying to initiate what it seems to think is a USB ethernet card. And I also tried the same USB port with a little no name SD Card reader, in which case the laptop just hangs. Bottom line is, if the device that holds the flash memory isn't recognized as USB by the BIOS, you can't boot from it.

What further ticks me off is that it seems impossible to buy the one adapter that works. I've only seen them in kits together with a microSD card. I've got a second one around here somewhere but they're so easy to misplace ...