Flash to USB installer (experimental) in 7.0.5

[philo]

I installed Knoppix 7.0.5 DVD on a Kingston USB2 (16GB) with a persistent img of 4GB. It works fine.
I am now trying to use its Knoppix flash-to-USB installer (experimental version) to create another Live USB (on a Sandisk USB2 of 32GB) with a much larger overlay, as reportedly now possible with 7.0.5.
I left the Sandisk key unformated.
The popup window asks me to choose 'i' (overlay of <4gb) or 'p'. I highlight 'p' and press OK. The next window is an error message saying that the overlay must be set at 400MB or above.
In the previous window, I then try to enter a figure (say 10000) as the proposed size for the overlay and press OK, but that figure does not seem to be recorded.
What am I doing wrong?
Thanks for your help. (this is my first posting by the way)

[Blacksimon]

i=overlay image
p=overlay partition

if highlight "p" a data partition (ReiserFS fornatted) is created about size choosen.
knoppix-data.inf is the partition mounted by fstab

[philo]

Thanks, Blacksimon but could you be more specific - in a tutorial sort of fashion - about how I should proceed after opening the knoppix installer (experimental ersion). Grazie.

[ssanubis]

I, too, am having issues with the new experimental USB installer. Is there some documentation on how exactly to use it? I checked and there is no man page for flash-knoppix2 nor flash-knoppix which is which is a darn shame. No entry on the wiki that I could see. No prior posts here in support minus this one I am in currently.

I am using an 8 GB usb flash drive I always carry on my keys chain and really wanted to try this out (I always thought it stunk that the live-rw function of debian was not functional on knoppix) but simply cannot get this to work. The problem is, without instructions I cannot determine if it's an issue where this experimental application is not working as intended for me or if it's my own user error. Unfortunately, the above post does not contain any actual explainaton either.

Lets boil this down to steps.


How exactly does the usb need to be prepared?
Number of partitions?
Format of partitions?
Labels?
Size requirements?
Mounted or unmounted?

Give me something to work with, LOL.

[Blacksimon]

I only take a look inside flash-knoppix2
Now I try it

[Blacksimon]

1) Launch knoppix installer (experimental version)
2) Select desired target device (I try to use a 16GB Sony Usb not empty)
3) Select installation method:
case "i" Standard installation on FAT32 with knoppix-data < 4GB (I think is the same of old flash-knoppix)
case "p" New type of installation: first parition FAT32 and second partition dedicated to overlay
4) i choose "p" because i want overlay >4GB (if possible...)
5) ok at warning message all data will erase on usb. I want.
6) ok at second warning message before proceed. Do it.
7) select the size of overlay partition. min: 400MB - max: the available free space left on usb
8 ) I select the max (in my case 8728MB)
9) ok to proceed
10) wait the end of the process (formatting, install boot loader, copy data file)
11) now, if you want, you can encrypt with aes the overlay.
12) Enter a password 8-14 chars lenght and then again to confirm
13) Wait the creation of the encrypted overlay
14) End

[Werner P. Schulz]

If you select "p" you'll get your Overlay within a separate partition "/dev/sda2" with the mountpoint "KNOPPIX-DATA"
159

This partition is ReiserFS formatted; therefore the overlay size can exceed the size of 4GB. The partition "/dev/sda1" is FAT32 formatted as usual.

In my example I've used an USB-drive of about 150GB and I created an overlay partition of 20GB.

As you can see there is remainig free space at '/mnt-system/' of 126GB which also can be used. For example create the folder

'/mnt-system/personal_stuff/'

and store whatever you want within this folder.

[ssanubis]

Alright, thank you for the information. I had attempted the same steps as described by blacksimon prior to my first post (which lead to my posting in the first place) and am not presented with

5) ok at warning message all data will erase on usb. I want.

In my case I was given an error at that point that my overlay was too small (less than 400MB). I have tried with an 8GB fat32 partition (let me state here again that the drive in question is a verbatim tuff 'n' tiny 8GB thumb drive) and that failed with that message. I then tried a 2GB fat32 and a 6GB ext2 partition. Failed. I then tried 2GB fat32 and 6GB ext4. Failed. I then checked the forum and saw this thread and tried a 2GB fat32 and 6GB ReiserFS. Failed. Then I tried with a 2GB fat32 and left the rest of the drive unpartitioned. Failed. I then tried all of the above with the second partition named "live-rw" (thinking maybe knoppix is possibly now incorporating debian live's startup script). Failed. This is what I did earlier before my first post. It sounds to me, from blacksimon's post, I should not have needed to touch the partitions in anyway. I kind of figured that was how this should have worked. So.... is this function just "too" experimental? If I missed something obvious please, please point it out. In the mean time I am now home so I will try again from my home PC instead of my work PC and see if I come up with any other result.

PS
I did try before I gave up entirely using the normal install or the "i" option instead of "p" and the install worked no problem and the USB booted into knoppix as expected.

[Werner P. Schulz]

It sounds to me, from blacksimon's post, I should not have needed to touch the partitions in anyway. I kind of figured that was how this should have worked. So.... is this function just "too" experimental?With the "flash-knoppix2" you need a flash drive with only one partition. If there are other partitions, they will be destroyed - you get a warning about this!

[philo]

Rerring to Blacksimon' tutorial.
Step#5 is NOT the normal warning that all data will be erased. It is an error message saying that the overlay is <400MB and therefore too small.
Until now, I have not yet been asked to set the size of the overlay for the 'p' option. And there is no opprortunity to do it.
So i am moving in a circle...

[STraute]

Just like philo I attempted to use the experimental /usr/bin/flash-knoppix2 to create a USB flash storage medium with a big reiserfs rw overlay partition. I also got the error dialog with:
Overlay size is too small!\n(minimum 400MB required) When I ran the script in a terminal window, I noticed a shell error message complaining about numeric format in the line
let avail=total-ksize After changing the format of the calculated media size in MiB from floating point to integer, I could successfully finish the "remastering" of the Knoppix 7.0.5 EN DVD onto my flash medium using only the script, with a 7 GiB writable overlay filesystem. The flash medium only contained an empty (DOS FDISK-style) partition table before I used the script.
/usr/bin/flash-knoppix2.patch:


--- /usr/bin/flash-knoppix2 2012-12-21 00:27:14.000000000 +0000
+++ flash-knoppix2 2012-12-28 09:01:10.000000000 +0000
@@ -364,7 +364,7 @@
ERROR="${FLASH}:\n$MSG_ERROR_INCOMPATIBLE"; bailout 2
fi
elif [ "p" = "$METHOD" ]; then
- total="$(awk '{print ($1 / 2048)}' /sys/block/"${FLASH##*/}"/size 2>/dev/null)"
+ total="$(awk '{printf( "%d", ($1 / 2048) ) }' /sys/block/"${FLASH##*/}"/size 2>/dev/null)"
ksize="$(du -sm --exclude='knoppix-data.*' . 2>/dev/null | awk '{size=$1}END{print size}')"
let avail=total-ksize
let avail-=200
Please note the change from "print ..." to "printf( "%d, ... )"

[ssanubis]

I have tried with an 8GB fat32 partition (let me state here again that the drive in question is a verbatim tuff 'n' tiny 8GB thumb drive) and that failed with that message.

Yes, that was my first step. Since the problem seems to be with the new flash-knoppix2 and likely some combination of my hardware/flash drive, where is the best place to report the issue? Is there a bugzilla for Knoppix?

[Werner P. Schulz]

The best place to report issue is
http://lists.debian.org/debian-knoppix/

(but not: http://knoppix.net/wiki/Category:Bug_Pages)

[Blacksimon]

Rerring to philo in post #10

My step #5 is the normal warning that all data will be erased....
I do it again and it still propose the same message
No error for me

#5
sdd: Sony Storage Media (14904MB)

Repartition and format device?
CAUTION: All data will be erased!

#6
sdd: Sony Storage Media (14904MB)

Do you really want to do this?
WARNING: ALL DATA ON WILL BE ERASED!

[ssanubis]

Well, it's good (and bad, lol) to see I'm not the only one experiencing the issue. And it seems we all experience it in the same place. I, too, had run the script in terminal and was informed the error was on like line 369 or some where around that point and had glanced at the script briefly to see if it was malformed and it looked about right to me, I simply didn't know the calls it was using so I couldn't be certain. I will try that fix for the script that AMSTraute proposed.

[Blacksimon]

assuming you have created an encrypted partition of 5GB and copied from the old knoppix-data.aes all the content, now I wonder ...
having more available space on USB, this partition can be increased in size as it can usually be done with the file knoppix-data.aes?

Yes, you could make it larger since the beginning .... but that's not the point .... it is curious to know if it is feasible ...

[philo]

I am back and still confused.
When I started this thread (post #1), I called for help when I could not use the Knoppix installer (experimental version) to install Knoppix 7.0.5 to a Sandisk Ultra 32GB with the 'p' option.
I tokk another USB key, this time a Sandisk Ultra 16GB. The 'p' option worked like a breeze, giving me an ovverlay of almost 12GB.
Does it mean that my Sandisk Ultra 32GB is rotten? Probably not, because it allowed me to install with the 'i' option. Note, howeer, that Knoppix at first refused to boot. I had the FAT32 partition checked by GParted and rebooted : all OK now and Knoppix gladly created the traditional 4GB persistent image.
Where do I/we go from there?

[Blacksimon]

Philo, try this:
- syslinux -if /dev/sdx (replace sdx with your Sandisk Ultra 32GB)
- Format FAT32 the whole USB with Gparted and set boot flag
- Again the Flash-Knoppix2

[philo]

Thanks Blacksimon. I tried this with my 32GB key:
step #1
I typed in a terminal : "ssyslinux -if /dev/sde" but it complained sayiing: 'invalid media signature (not a fat system?)".
step #2
I then create a small FAT32 partition at the beginning of the key, with GParted.
and typed "syslinux -if /dev/sde1". The command was accepted.
step #3
I formated the whole key in FAT32 with GParted and added the boot flag.
step #4
Next I run knoppix installer with the 'p' option and again received the infamous error message that the "overlay is too small".
So no joy so far.

Note - Not better if the whole key was formated in FAT32 before doing step #1.

[Blacksimon]

try to remove partition and then recreate....i don't know

do not give up....
;)

[STraute]

Hello philo


Thanks Blacksimon. I tried this with my 32GB key:
[[...]]
step #4
Next I run knoppix installer with the 'p' option and again received the infamous error message that the "overlay is too small".
So no joy so far.

Note - Not better if the whole key was formated in FAT32 before doing step #1.

Before the /usr/bin/flash-knoppix2 script can fail, it should show you
a dialog with a list of storage devices. In that list your 32 GB key should appear
with a storage capacity/size value (in MiB). If that value is a fractional/floating point value
(with something like ".5" or ".25" at the end), then you have found the
reason for the failure and the overlay is too small message: The script performs calculations
with that value, but these fail (with shell error message) and return a zero value.
You can fix this yourself by changing the script, making it suppress the
decimal fraction before the calculations take place.
In the line reading (at line number ca. 367):
total="$(awk '{print ($1 / 2048 )}' /sys/block/"${FLASH##*/}"/size 2>/dev/null)"
Change the part that reads:
print ($1 / 2048 )
to:
printf( "%d", ($1 / 2048 ) )
This change can be performed even in a Knoppix booted from a DVD- or CD-ROM, with a
Text editor of your choice (nano is simple to use). Your change will reside in the RAM overlay.
I could successfully use this changed script to create a flash storage medium with
a big (7 GiB) reiserfs overlay filesystem, without having to prepare any partitions on it
(I only had an empty parition table there).
I hope I this helps. I hope I have correctly understood Your problem.

[philo]

Thanks for all your advice and encouragements, Blacksimon, but I shall not continue to bother this forum with my small problem.
If I find the solution I'll let you know.

[philo]

Hello STraute,
My post #22 was written before you sent your post #21. Probably took some time for the moderator to check my spelling or whatever before allowing it to be published.
I read your posts #11 and 21 a number of times and decided to try #21.
I have been using Knoppix since 5.x but I am always hesitant to put my head under the hood.
I did this time and it worked! I have a 26GB overlay.I am so grateful.
I still wonder why I could format my Sandisk 16GB with the orginal script, but not the 32GB.
Maybe Klaus should modify the script.
I have a subsidiary question. Come Knoppix 7.0.6 etc, shall I be able to import my 26GB overlay into a new version of the program?

[STraute]

Hello philo

Hello STraute,
My post #22 was written before you sent your post #21. Probably took some time for the moderator to check my spelling or whatever before allowing it to be published.
Until now, I did not understand why you had appearantly choosen to ignore my advice.
Your explanation makes that clear, Thank You for taking the time. I had guessed that my advice
in post #11 was perhaps too technical for you. After You showed persistence in your reply to
Blacksimon and mentioned the overlay is too small error message again; I decided to
explain the same approach again, but in a way requiering less prior knowledge.

I read your posts #11 and 21 a number of times and decided to try #21.
I have been using Knoppix since 5.x but I am always hesitant to put my head under the hood.
I did this time and it worked! I have a 26GB overlay. I am so grateful.

Good! I am happy I could help.


I still wonder why I could format my Sandisk 16GB with the orginal script, but not the 32GB.

I can only speculate, but:
Your Sandisk 16 GB device might have a storage capacity in 512 byte blocks which is dividable by 2048 without remainder;
While Your 32 GB device might have storage capacity in 512 byte blocks which is dividable only by 2048 with a remainder.


Maybe Klaus should modify the script.

That has been taken care of. He said he would use this patch in the next release.


I have a subsidiary question. Come Knoppix 7.0.6 etc, shall I be able to import my 26GB overlay into a new version of the program?
I wouldn't try to reuse the same overlay file system with another Knoppix release.
If You make changes to the system (for example, by installing Debian packages or by just making changes in the
system configuration), then some of those changes might be incompatible with subsequent Knoppix releases. I would
rather suggest to create backup(s) of your home directory/directories from Your Knoppix 7.0.5 flash medium
(i.e. by creating compressed tar file archives on other storage like seperate internal or external hard disk. That would preserve Linux file attributes/permissions even if the tar archive files are stored on Windows file systems).
You might also want to maintain copies/repositories of changes to the system configuration
(files in the /etc/ hierarchy for example). A list of the currently installed Debian packages can be created with
a command like this:

dpkg-query -l|egrep "^i" >my_installed_debian_packages_list_for_knoppix_7.0. 5.txtWhen the time comes to switch to a new Knoppix release, create a fresh flash installation with a
separate big persistent overlay file system. Using the fresh Knopppix instance, You can restore your backed up
home directories and reinstall the Debian packages You need (using the list).
It might be easier to just upgrade Debian packages, without upgrading to newer Knoppix releases
(until a new Knoppix release has new features You really want).
But you should create those backups anyway - Better be safe than sorry.
I hope I could answer your question in a satifsfactory manner.

[philo]

Hello STraute,
Thanks for your post #24 and for finding the time to prepare such a detailed reply.
All that information will also be useful to other readers of this forum.
I am definitely a Junior Member here now and for a long time to come but I shall recoomend you for a quick upgrade to full membership.

[ssanubis]

I just popped in to grab the suggested change by STraute for a fresh install on my work laptop and realised I did not reply to this thread to verify if I got this solved, at least for myself. Testing the default flash-knoppix2 using 3 flash drives (Sandisk Cruiser 8GB, Verbatim Tuff'n'Tiny 8GB and Centon PRO 16GB) all failed with my previously indicated message. Using the suggested change to the script in post #11 I am now able to use the experimental install with persistant reiserfs partition on all sticks. I really hope this change makes it into the next release (and that STraute gets all the credit ;,,; Happy Penguining!

[STraute]

Hello ssanubis


I just popped in to grab the suggested change by STraute for a fresh install on my work laptop and realised I did not reply to this thread to verify if I got this solved, at least for myself. Testing the default flash-knoppix2 using 3 flash drives (Sandisk Cruiser 8GB, Verbatim Tuff'n'Tiny 8GB and Centon PRO 16GB) all failed with my previously indicated message. Using the suggested change to the script in post #11 I am now able to use the experimental install with persistant reiserfs partition on all sticks.
Thank You for this feedback. I hope it can motivate others to try the patch.
Both the patch from post #11 and the change described in post #21 are essentially the same,
only post #11 is somewhat more technical.


I really hope this change makes it into the next release
Before even contributing to this thread, I had sent the patch to Klaus Knopper (using the web form). He was friendly enough to reply via Mail that he would use the patch for the next release. (I'm only posting here to tide you all over until then :D. )

[krba]

Hello!

I made bootable USB (Emtec 16gb) with experimental Knoppix 7.0.5 flash boot, with reiserFS. It works correctly. Even when put tiny7 on virtualbox. OK, it's a little bit to slow, but works!
BUT the crucial problem is when I want to put my local keyboard layout and when syslinux.cfg touched:
- go to boot->syslinux->sislinux.cfg (open with leaf or vi editor) and put in APPEND line bitween lang=en and apm=power-off my keyboard=hr or xkeyboard=hr or just open and save and... voila on my comp ASUS P5VD-X at next boot I've got the: No DEFAULT or UI configuration directive found!
Same thing with KNOPPIX 7.0.4 works (of coarse without this experimental, raiserFS etc...)
So, how to change keyboard layout on the other way?

2.nd mabe someone of you noticed then when you have boot usb stick, and at the same time you have live CD/DVD (knoppix) in your CD/DVD device, although boot starts from USB, it will redirected to boot from CD/DVD.

3. how to fix calling from root console sudo modprobe vboxdrv before calling virtualbox installed OS (tinyXP or tiny7)

etc... but enough for now.

Oh, yes, KNOPPIX is my favorite mobile OS ;) and I try to stay it in the future. (Tried lupu, slax, moo then Ylmf, Zorin, Ubuntu, but.... :-/)

[Werner P. Schulz]

Please use the "Advanced Options" and upload your 'syslinux.cfg' as 'syslinux.txt'; so we can look over it.

Booting Knoppix, it seeks for the next available ISO; in your case if finds the ISO from CD/DVD. To prevent this behaviour use the cheatcode (http://knoppix.net/wiki/Cheat_Codes) "fromhd"

[krba]

ok, here it is:
************************************************** **************************
DEFAULT knoppix
APPEND ramdisk_size=100000 lang=en keyboard=hr apm=power-off initrd=minirt.gz nomce libata.force=noncq hpsa.hpsa_allow_any=1 loglevel=1 tz=localtime
TIMEOUT 100
# TOTALTIMEOUT 20
# KBDMAP german.kbd
PROMPT 1
F1 boot.msg
F2 f2
F3 f3
DISPLAY boot.msg
LABEL adriane
KERNEL linux
APPEND ramdisk_size=100000 lang=en keyboard=hr apm=power-off video=640x480 initrd=minirt.gz nomce libata.force=noncq hpsa.hpsa_allow_any=1 loglevel=1 tz=localtime adriane
LABEL adriane64
KERNEL linux64
APPEND ramdisk_size=100000 lang=en keyboard=hr apm=power-off video=640x480 initrd=minirt.gz nomce libata.force=noncq hpsa.hpsa_allow_any=1 loglevel=1 tz=localtime adriane
LABEL knoppix
KERNEL linux
APPEND ramdisk_size=100000 lang=en keyboard=hr apm=power-off initrd=minirt.gz nomce libata.force=noncq hpsa.hpsa_allow_any=1 loglevel=1 tz=localtime
LABEL knoppix64
KERNEL linux64
APPEND ramdisk_size=100000 lang=en keyboard=hr apm=power-off initrd=minirt.gz nomce libata.force=noncq hpsa.hpsa_allow_any=1 loglevel=1 tz=localtime
LABEL debug
KERNEL linux
APPEND ramdisk_size=100000 lang=en keyboard=hr apm=power-off initrd=minirt.gz nomce libata.force=noncq hpsa.hpsa_allow_any=1 loglevel=1 tz=localtime debug
LABEL debug64
KERNEL linux64
APPEND ramdisk_size=100000 lang=en keyboard=hr apm=power-off initrd=minirt.gz nomce libata.force=noncq hpsa.hpsa_allow_any=1 loglevel=1 tz=localtime debug
LABEL grub
KERNEL grub.exe
APPEND --config=;
LABEL fb1024x768
KERNEL linux
APPEND ramdisk_size=100000 lang=en keyboard=hr apm=power-off vga=791 video=1024x768 xmodule=fbdev initrd=minirt.gz nomce libata.force=noncq hpsa.hpsa_allow_any=1 loglevel=1 tz=localtime
LABEL fb1280x1024
KERNEL linux
APPEND ramdisk_size=100000 lang=en keyboard=hr apm=power-off vga=794 video=1280x1024 xmodule=fbdev initrd=minirt.gz nomce libata.force=noncq hpsa.hpsa_allow_any=1 loglevel=1 tz=localtime
LABEL fb800x600
KERNEL linux
APPEND ramdisk_size=100000 lang=en keyboard=hr apm=power-off vga=788 video=800x600 xmodule=fbdev initrd=minirt.gz nomce libata.force=noncq hpsa.hpsa_allow_any=1 loglevel=1 tz=localtime
LABEL fb640x480
KERNEL linux
APPEND ramdisk_size=100000 lang=en keyboard=hr apm=power-off vga=785 video=640x480 xmodule=fbdev initrd=minirt.gz nomce libata.force=noncq hpsa.hpsa_allow_any=1 loglevel=1 tz=localtime
LABEL memtest
KERNEL memtest
APPEND foo
LABEL dos
KERNEL memdisk
APPEND initrd=balder.img
LABEL failsafe
KERNEL linux
APPEND ramdisk_size=100000 lang=en keyboard=hr vga=normal atapicd nosound noapic nolapic noacpi pnpbios=off acpi=off nofstab noscsi nodma noapm nousb nopcmcia nofirewire noagp nomce libata.force=noncq hpsa.hpsa_allow_any=1 nonetwork nodhcp xmodule=vesa initrd=minirt.gz
************************************************** **************************

[Werner P. Schulz]

The syslinux.cfg you've posted is ok; I can boot with it my Knoppix test installation without any error message. Perhaps you did a mistake with the name of the file?

- go to boot->syslinux->sislinux.cfg (open with leaf or vi editor) and put in APPEND line

[krba]

oh boy :)
you are joking, isn't it? or, mabe no...

Thanx, an(y/i)way. (this is bytes (not i) and time wasting), so long.

[ttopp]

1) Launch knoppix installer (experimental version)
2) Select desired target device (I try to use a 16GB Sony Usb not empty)
3) Select installation method:
case "i" Standard installation on FAT32 with knoppix-data < 4GB (I think is the same of old flash-knoppix)
case "p" New type of installation: first parition FAT32 and second partition dedicated to overlay
4) i choose "p" because i want overlay >4GB (if possible...)
5) ok at warning message all data will erase on usb. I want.
6) ok at second warning message before proceed. Do it.
7) select the size of overlay partition. min: 400MB - max: the available free space left on usb
8 ) I select the max (in my case 8728MB)
9) ok to proceed
10) wait the end of the process (formatting, install boot loader, copy data file)
11) now, if you want, you can encrypt with aes the overlay.
12) Enter a password 8-14 chars lenght and then again to confirm
13) Wait the creation of the encrypted overlay
14) End

Hi,

I spent the weekend to no avail but now have an 8GB and 16GB Sandisk and today a 64GB Lexar USB drives with Knoppix 7.05 DVD - None of 3 will boot! Am I missing a step(s), somewhere?

10) wait the end of the process (formatting, install boot loader, copy data file)

I started with the 7.05 DVD .... when I had the Graphical Interface; I selected from (lower left) menu, Knowppix, Install to USB -Experimental. I let the Install Program do everything - Very smooth. When Finished, I reboot and receive the No DEFAULT or UI configuration directive found!

10) wait the end of the process (formatting, install boot loader, copy data file)

So, is your Step number 10... consisting of multiple steps; like installing lilo - Please, it's been some time. I'm back because of the possibility to carry mutiple boots and DVD of data on a USB. Thanks.

[Werner P. Schulz]

Did you test your DVD with Knoppix Cheatcode (http://knoppix.net/wiki/Cheat_Codes) "knoppix testcd"?
I let the Install Program do everything - Very smooth. When Finished, ..What message did you get at this point? Be aware, the progress-bar remains about half an hour nearby 99%. Wait patiently for the final message.

[STraute]

I spent the weekend to no avail but now have an 8GB and 16GB Sandisk and today a 64GB Lexar USB drives with Knoppix 7.05 DVD - None of 3 will boot! Am I missing a step(s), somewhere?

10) wait the end of the process (formatting, install boot loader, copy data file)

I started with the 7.05 DVD .... when I had the Graphical Interface; I selected from (lower left) menu, Knowppix, Install to USB -Experimental. I let the Install Program do everything - Very smooth. When Finished, I reboot and receive the No DEFAULT or UI configuration directive found!

10) wait the end of the process (formatting, install boot loader, copy data file)

So, is your Step number 10... consisting of multiple steps; like installing lilo - Please, it's been some time. I'm back because of the possibility to carry mutiple boots and DVD of data on a USB. Thanks.

Step 10 does not describe tasks You (as the user of the experimental Installer) have to perform, it just lists the many sub-tasks the Installer has to perform (while You have to wait).

The message You described might come from the Knoppix boot loader, but I am not sure. Is the same
message displayed when you start Your PC without any (USB-) Flash storage device attached?
Can Your PC boot from other flash memory storage devices? Can other PCs/Laptops boot Knoppix from Your USB flash memory devices?

I think that it is entirely possible that every one of Your installations was successful, but that your computer can not (currently) boot from USB: Most PCs built-in firmware/BIOS software requires a special key to be pressed before booting of any operating system (from hard disk or SSD) can take place. This key causes a boot device menu to be displayed. In this kind of menu you may then select the avaliable boot devices (among device vendor strings). I can not tell you which special key is needed for Your PC, but this is usually displayed during BIOS storage device detection in a message like "Press F11 to enter boot device selection menu." or "Press F8 key to choose system startup media". This display may zip by rather fast; But the Pause key is your friend.

Sometimes the PC firmware/BIOS requires reconfiguration before even allowing boot from USB media.
In Your BIOS setup, please check the boot device order (and other USB-related options).

Perhaps Your PC-BIOS gets confused by the second partition(s) ("/dev/sd?2") created by the experimental installer - Try to use the normal/older flash install program from the Knoppix DVD with Your 8 GB Sandisk stick (If that can be booted then You have a picky/broken BIOS. Your PC manufacturer might offer BIOS updates by download). Only storage devices with memory capacity bigger than 8 GiB can really benefit from the new experimental installer anyway.

I hope any of this can help You.

[ttopp]

Did you test your DVD with Knoppix Cheatcode (http://knoppix.net/wiki/Cheat_Codes) &quot;knoppix testcd&quot;?What message did you get at this point? Be aware, the progress-bar remains about half an hour nearby 99%. Wait patiently for the final message.

Ok... First - Thank you for the quick responses. On Knoppix DVD 7.05 from USB... experimental... I ran 'knoppix testdvd' and it Failed. Thank you.

[ttopp]

Step 10 does not describe tasks You (as the user of the experimental Installer) have to perform, it just lists the many sub-tasks the Installer has to perform (while You have to wait).

Can Your PC boot from other flash memory storage devices? Can other PCs/Laptops boot Knoppix from Your USB flash memory devices?

Try to use the normal/older flash install program from the Knoppix DVD with Your 8 GB Sandisk stick (If that can be booted then You have a picky/broken BIOS. Your PC manufacturer might offer BIOS updates by download). Only storage devices with memory capacity bigger than 8 GiB can really benefit from the new experimental installer anyway.

I hope any of this can help You.

Ok... First - Thank you for the quick responses. On Knoppix DVD 7.05 from USB... experimental... I ran 'knoppix testdvd' and it Failed. Thank you.
------------------------------------------------

You folks are good with your answers to posts. Your manners are patient and appreciated.
I have downloaded and installed Firmware Update for the Plextor 716A CD/DVD R RW DL. Finished. I have Updated 4.22.2005 AMI BIOS. Finished. I have adjusted BIOS to boot from DVD, USB, etc. I have pressed F8 to get a Boot Menu. Thank you.
-------------------------------------------------
These Thank yous are sincere. It helps my memory to read and re read the forum posts after so long. I am looking for the 7.1 DVD and will start over. -Installing to Flash-USB Experimental. Until then...
I have a 8GB w optional overlay, a 16GB w p, and a 64GB install w 1505MB Reiser FS partition?. Thanks. ..looking for computers here at the home to test them on, although, with the DVD Failing (the 7.04-5? *CD, PASSED!) -maybe yes/ maybe no. One more on the errors... in the beginning when I first started.. I received 'Can't find Kernel' errors. I haven't seen that in a while. I thought Sandisk specific?
-----------------------------------------------------
I used to be fairly adept at this and I'm enjoying the heck out of it again... so thanks and I'm keeepin on.

[STraute]

Ok... First - Thank you for the quick responses. On Knoppix DVD 7.05 from USB... experimental... I ran 'knoppix testdvd' and it Failed. Thank you.

So Mr. Schulz came up with the useful recommendation (while I only came up with unhelpful guesses). You need a boot medium that works. There are several possible approaches now, depending on Your preferences:


Perhaps a USB flash storage device created from the Knoppix CD is sufficent for Your current needs.



If You still have a ISO file with the Knoppix DVD image, then You can try to write that to another DVD+-R(W).



Or You can skip the DVD burning by using that Knoppix DVD image ISO file to create an intermediate bootable flash storage device instead. I would use the unetbootin tool (http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/) (http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/) to write such a bootable medium. You can use the testcd cheat code with such an USB medium too. After that checks out You could boot that USB stick again and try the experimental installer from there to install on a seperate USB flash storeage device (to get a file system which is not just writeable but with changes persisting across reboots).



You folks are good with your answers to posts. Your manners are patient and appreciated.
I have downloaded and installed Firmware Update for the Plextor 716A CD/DVD R RW DL. Finished. I have Updated 4.22.2005 AMI BIOS. Finished. I have adjusted BIOS to boot from DVD, USB, etc. I have pressed F8 to get a Boot Menu. Thank you.
And Thank You for Your diligence in following advice and reporting Your results here (Even for my unhelpful guesses on probable causes).
-------------------------------------------------


I am looking for the 7.1 DVD and will start over. -Installing to Flash-USB Experimental. Until then...
I have a 8GB w optional overlay, a 16GB w p, and a 64GB install w 1505MB Reiser FS partition?. Thanks. ..looking for computers here at the home to test them on, although, with the DVD Failing (the 7.04-5? *CD, PASSED!) -maybe yes/ maybe no. One more on the errors... in the beginning when I first started.. I received 'Can't find Kernel' errors. I haven't seen that in a while. I thought Sandisk specific?


It will be a couple of months before the Knoppix 7.1 images become public. Until then You only can get 7.1 by buying a copy of german Linux Magazin (http://knoppix.net/forum/www.linux-magazin.de).

After the "testcd" failed it is much more likely that this is a/the cause of the failed boots/kernel loads You have experienced. I think it is not probable that Sandisk is at fault here. You need a working and tested boot medium first.

[ttopp]

[QUOTE=STraute;129184]So Mr. Schulz came up with the useful recommendation (while I only came up with unhelpful guesses).

Whoah... Hold on there , STraute. You give excellent information. In fact it was your information that kept me busy and brings back a 'disciplined' approach -with a new conscientiousness. Hmm, did I spell that right? I was confused how to divide up my responses and afterwards, I thought the Administrator might be upset with the way I used this 'Reply area'. Everything is new. I have done four full days since Sat last and 9:30 Central time last nite, I received my first 'All files OK' on my Knoppix DVD 7.05. So, before I slept I created a 16GB SanDisk w 12GB Partition. It didn't boot. UI error. This AM I created the little 8GB SanDisk w 3900MB Overlay and then saw your email.

And Thank You for Your diligence in following advice and reporting Your results here (Even for my unhelpful guesses on probable causes). Now Stop that! (Jack Benny).
-------------------------------------------------
This is what these forums are for. (Example) I have a Ultra ATA/133 Sil680 Raid controller card. I bought it so I could have larger disks ( 2 300 GB Drives). OK. Now, the drive that boots my system is a 160GB and is plugged into the IDE-0 slot. But I can't point the system BIOS to the 160GB. I have to point it to the controller and tell BIOS to 'Search other Drives', to get the desired result. Go figure. And STraute, my friend, it was your suggestions both last time and today that has me paying attention to All these little 'quirks'. Thank you. This is a lot of fun. -I do get a little frustrated because I'm not further along.. I'd like to be booting into a Dragon Dictate type environment. But, -day at a time-. Stay well everyone. I'm keeepin on.

[ttopp]

Ok... First - Thank you for the quick responses. On Knoppix DVD 7.05 from USB... experimental... I ran 'knoppix testdvd' and it Failed. Thank you.

Wow. Great afternoon. All 3 worked and I am hacking new ones (multi-boot) to try. USB Still doesn't work on my pc. But I have seen them all work. Thanks for the ubunetuin? That was SLICK. Gotta go- Friend's Birthday and I am late. B-4 I go,,, My PC does boot from a 256MB Lexar thumb w Steve Gibson SpinWrite. Maybe it is 'FreeDOs' making it happen. Stay well, this is fun and I am Keeepin on.

[ttopp]

Ok... First - Thank you for the quick responses. On Knoppix DVD 7.05 from USB... experimental... I ran 'knoppix testdvd' and it Failed. Thank you.

Straute wrote:


The message You described might come from the Knoppix boot loader, but I am not sure. Is the same
message displayed when you start Your PC without any (USB-) Flash storage device attached?"The Only messages I have received since I started, are: the 'UI error' and the 'Can't find Kernel' error." Without USB inserted ? No Error Messages.


Can Your PC boot from other flash memory storage devices? "Yes. My PC can boot from a 256MB Lexar with an install of Spin-write."


Can other PCs/Laptops boot Knoppix from Your USB flash memory devices?"Yes. This was experienced since I last wrote you. Lots of fun. We saw Ubutu's (Orange Interface) and the 8GB SanDisk w Overlay.

*Question: Does the 8GB allow for saving of settings?

Also, we saw the 16GB SanDisk w an 11GB Reiser Partition. (We re-formatted and are using this stick to experiment with - In WinXP Pro version 2002 with SP3 on an AMD Athlon XP 2400+ 2.GHz, 2.GB of RAM, a PCChips M848A M-Board.

*We're using 'xbootvs1.0beta14.exe' (a program that will build a multi-boot stick). I'm trying multi installs on one stick. To date, the completed stick tests OK with 'qemu-0.8.1-windows' - But when it is re-booted, the USB gives 'Boot Error'. The stick also gives a Boot Error on oter PCs. This is All OK. I can slow down, read the docs and do it step by step.

The ISO's I have chosen are; Knoppix DVD 7.05, Backtrack 5R3 - BT5R3-GNOME-32.iso, the Linux Network Security Toolkit - nst-18-4509.i686.iso, Puppy Linux - lupu-528.005.iso, the System Rescue CD systemrescuecd-x86-3.5.0.iso, Clonezilla -clonezilla-live-20130314-quantal-i386.iso, and Ultimate Boot CD for Windows - UBCD4WinV360.exe."

To Download these files (ISO's) we use: LinuxLive USB Creator 2.8.20.exe, live-usb-install-2.3.10.exe, and unetbootin-windows-583.exe.

To Burn ISO Image to CD/DVD we use: PowerISO5.exe, and or ImgBurn_2.5.7.0.exe

However, I still cannot boot these USB sticks on my PC ( All 3 sticks work 'Great' on other PCs ).

-----------------------------------


In Your BIOS setup, please check the boot device order (and other USB-related options)."these other USB-related options" - in my computer BIOS, I found where they are all, 'Enabled'.


Perhaps Your PC-BIOS gets confused by the second partition(s) ("/dev/sd?2") created by the experimental installer - Try to use the normal/older flash install program from Knoppix DVD with Your 8 GB Sandisk stick."Sounds good. I will try it soon. ( I let someone play w 8GB this weekend) He was instantly hooked on the spinning compiz 3dcube Interface." He may join Forum.


Only storage devices with memory capacity bigger than 8 GB can really benefit from the new experimental installer anyway."What does this mean? I'm thinking the overlay and/or Reiser partition is an area to compress-decompress the USB/DVD programs as well as save settings and any file downloads?"


If You have the Knoppix DVD image, then You can try to write that to another DVD+-R(W)."I'm doing that (writing to a DVD RW) this morning."


After that checks out You could boot that USB stick again and try the experimental installer from there to install on a separate USB flash storage device (to get a file system which is not just writable but with changes persisting across reboots).
"We did this last night. We had the experimental program of the 64GB Lexar USB (DVD 7.05 w 15GB partition) write to the 16GB SanDisk and it is now persistent w 11GB partition."

"OK Gentlemen, that's where I am this morning. I would like to see my USB boot on my PC. I know my USB will boot to DOS... Maybe there is a 'LILO' type menu I can put on the USB stick to solve my problem w a menu selection?" Thanks for all the great help and patience. Stay well, and I'm keeepin on.


--------
Edit by moderator
Please use the "Go Advanced" button to have more abilities to format the posting; before sending your posting use "Preview" to see how it looks like.

If "noscript" is active for http://knoppix.net/forum/ disable it for this website; otherwise you cannot use the format abilities.

[STraute]

...
My PC can boot from a 256MB Lexar with an install of Spin-write.
...
We saw Ubutu's (Orange Interface) and the 8GB SanDisk w/ Overlay.

So Your PC can boot from USB flash storage media.



Question: Does the 8GB allow for saving of settings?

Yes. The "traditonal" Knoppix flash installer can create an overlay file system directly on bootable flash media (not just in RAM, as most LiveCD systems do). It then continously saves all file system changes in this overlay file system.
All those changes can therefore survive reboots, that's why such an overlay file system is called persistent.



Also, we saw the 16GB SanDisk w an 11GB Reiser Partition. (We re-formatted and are using this stick to experiment with - In WinXP Pro version 2002 with SP3 on an AMD Athlon
...

:confused: ... but (as i understand it) this PC is not the PC You are still having boot Problems with - Is that correct?



*We're using 'xbootvs1.0beta14.exe' (a program that will build a multi-boot stick). I'm trying multi installs on one stick. To date, the completed stick tests OK with 'qemu-0.8.1-windows' - But when it is re-booted, the USB gives 'Boot Error'. The stick also gives a Boot Error on oter PCs. This is All OK. I can slow down, read the docs and do it step by step.

:confused: That all sounds interesting (and might make for interesting threads in this forum), but the topic
of this thread is the experimental flash installer. Please try to stick to that (Small diversions are not bad as such, but they seem to be accumlate in this thread, thus reducing its value for other readers.).
I am guessing here: You could boot Knoppix inside a virtual guest PC provided by a Qemu hosted by Windows on your PC? Please note: Virtual Machines/Emulators/Hypervisors provide their own firmware/"ROM" BIOS for guests operating systems; If You can boot Knoppix as a guest in a VM, that does not tell us much about your "real" (VM host) PC.



...(lots of comments about experimentation not directly related to experimental flash installer removed)...
However, I still cannot boot these USB sticks on my PC ( All 3 sticks work 'Great' on other PCs ).

:confused: Can You boot on Your PC from a flash medium written by the "traditional" Knoppix flash installer?
But not from a flash medium written by the experimental installer, which is bootable on other PCs?
If that is the case, then Your PC firmware/BIOS might dislike flash media with multiple partitions.

(Relating to my comment that the experimental Knoppix installer only has real benefit if used with storage media with capacity above 8 GB...)


What does this mean? I'm thinking the overlay and/or Reiser partition is an area to compress-decompress the USB/DVD programs as well as save settings and any file downloads?

The "traditional" flash installer creates the persistent overlay partition as a partition image file hosted inside the single FAT32 partition encompassing the whole flash storage medium. FAT32 file systems allow a maximum file size of 4 GiB. To have more space (to allow for more persistent changes), a larger overlay file system is needed.
The experimental flash installer does overcome this limit of FAT32 by creating a second partition on the flash media to hold the persistent overlay file system, placed right after the FAT32 partition and seperate from it. This type of persistent overlay partition happens to contain a reiserfs file system.
It can be encrypted but does not offer transparent data compression (Because that only works really good for read only file systems, such as the ISO file system containing the original [and optionally remastered] Knoppix files. This read-only ISO exists as a partition image file hosted inside the bootable FAT32 partition for flash media written by both the traditional and the experimental flash installer programs. It has to be in a image file [not a real partition] because it is a compressed ISO which can only be uncompressed when mounted through the cloop driver. This also holds true for Knoppix CDs/DVDs, where this compressed ISO image file exists as file KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX hosted inside the ISO file system encompassing the optical medium.)
On a 8 GB flash medium/storage device there only is room for boot files, a compressed ISO image file from a Knoppix DVD (3.81 GiB) and a overlay file system smaller than 4 GiB. You could write a flash medium containing only the CD version of Knoppix onto a 8 GB flash device, making the experimental installer neccessary to maximise size of the persistent overlay file - But who would want only the CD version on a flash device of that size? That was my reason for saying that the experimental flash installer only has benefits for media larger than 8 GB.

[ttopp]

First. My Apologies for the inexperience. And thanks for staying with me.


:confused: ... but (as i understand it) this PC is not the PC You are still having boot Problems with - Is that correct?Yes I cannot yet boot any of the 3 sticks on My PC. *I've since corrected the ide and ata cards to boot correctly so no hardware conflict or tricking in bios anymore.

:confused: Can You boot on Your PC from a flash medium written by the "traditional" Knoppix flash installer?This was interesting in that half way through traditional install my PC recycled and went completely to the initial screen as if rebooting - I swear - It came back up and finished the install to the 8GB SanDisk and it booted on the other PC. I've since redid it- for confidence - but pretty interesting. *This was using the traditional installer. And it does not boot My PC.


If that is the case, then Your PC firmware/BIOS might dislike flash media with multiple partitions.Shucks, I thought that it might be solved by eliminating the extra usb ide card. I have 2 usb on the back of case from motherboard and two usb on front of new case. And four on an add on ide that was purchased before the new case. In short I thought I may have a usb conflict. So I took the ide card out and still no boot from back or front.

Thanks for the explanation on advantages above 8GB.

It's crazy. I updated Bios and all items in PC and still no usb boot. I have ran Linux off hard drive with win xp pro as multiple boot from floppy * but not yet from usb. Today a friend and old think pad 500MB RAM and 20GB hard disk booted the *8GB USB. :cool:


-------------------
Formatted by moderator to make posting readable
wps

[STraute]

Hello ttopp

Yes I cannot yet boot any of the 3 sticks on My PC.
(I've since corrected the ide and ata cards to boot correctly so no hardware conflict or tricking in bios anymore.)

This was interesting in that half way through traditional install my PC recycled and went completely to the initial screen as if rebooting - I swear - It came back up and finished the install to the 8GB SanDisk and it booted on the other PC. I've since redid it- for confidence - but pretty interesting.

*This was using the traditional installer. And it does not boot My PC.

It looks like we begin to corner this problem. It is specific to Your PC. Your PC can not boot Knoppix from flash storage devices, yet it can boot FreeDOS (the SpinRite (https://www.grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm) medium You mentioned). We can not be sure yet, but it looks like this happens to Your PC for media created with the traditional as well as the experimental Knoppix flash installers.



Shucks, I thought that it might be solved by eliminating the extra usb ide card. I have 2 usb on the back of case from motherboard and two usb on front of new case. And four on an add on ide that was purchased before the new case.

In short I thought I may have a usb conflict. So I took the ide card out and still no boot from back or front.

The next steps You could try to corner this problem further:


Could You make sure that Your PC is not one of these newfangled things which can only boot via UEFI method? (EFI boot could work with a "newer" Knoppix 7.1 (http://knoppix.net/forum/threads/30502-Knoppix-CeBIT-Edition-7.1?p=129272#post129272), but is not yet there).
If You haven't already done that, could You try booting Your Knoppix flash device using diffrent USB ports (or with a "MultiCard" USB adapter on different USB ports, in case You are using a SDHC memory card or other flash device).
Try booting from a Knoppix CD/DVD with cheat codes (http://knoppix.net/wiki/Cheat_Codes): Attach Your flash media, boot from optical media and use the command
sudo fdisk -l to determine the device name given to Your not-yet-bootable Knoppix flash medium. Then reboot from DVD again, and at the prompt use the cheat code
knoppix bootfrom=/dev/sdb1/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX. (Assuming fdisk -l told You before that Your Knoppix flash storage device has been assigned name /dev/sdb.).
Create a Knoppix boot floppy (which then can continue "chain-"booting from flash medium) and use that instead of a DVD. That was a common approach when USB boot was not yet supported by many PC BIOS, IIRC.

Good luck with that.

[ttopp]

Good Morning,

Thanks for the response. I don't understand it yet but I will read it slow, today. I am sorry for the re-formatting someone (Administrator) is doing to make this readable so have taken to just a 'reply' rather than 'with quote'. I will go back to the faqs and see where what and how to post properly. Again thanks for staying with me.

[STraute]

Hello ttopp

Good Morning, Thanks for the response. I don't understand it yet but I will read it slow, today. I am sorry for the re-formatting someone (Administrator) is doing to make this readable so have taken to just a 'reply' rather than 'with quote'. I will go back to the faqs and see where what and how to post properly.
I am sure it will suit Mr. Werner P. Schulz if he sees posts from You not needing reformatting.
So You may refrain from including quotes - Just mention what You are replying to.

You may ask for clarifications if You want to.

[Werner P. Schulz]

I will go back to the faqs and see where what and how to post properly.Read my comment at the bottom of #41 and use the icon "Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text" :-)

[ttopp]

That was fun. I actually saw the searching of the iso image for KNOPPIX. I first booted using the dvd. then in a terminal window I typed sudo fdisk -l (list) and found this for both 64gb and 16gb usb drives.

Disk /dev/sdd: 62.8 GB, 62813896704 bytes
64 heads, 32 sectors/track, 59904 cylinders, total 122683392 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00000000

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sdd1 * 1 81631231 40815615+ c W95 FAT32 (LBA)
/dev/sdd2 81631232 122683391 20526080 83 Linux
knoppix@Microknoppix:~$

Disk /dev/sdd: 16.0 GB, 16008609792 bytes
64 heads, 32 sectors/track, 15267 cylinders, total 31266816 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00000000

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sdd1 * 1 8433663 4216831+ c W95 FAT32 (LBA)
/dev/sdd2 8433664 31266815 11416576 83 Linux
knoppix@Microknoppix:~$

I then booted with the dvd and at the knoppix penguin I typed knoppix bootfrom=/dev/sdd1/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX and here is where it says, searching ISO for KNOPPIX ?

[STraute]

Hello ttopp


I then booted with the dvd and at the knoppix penguin I typed knoppix bootfrom=/dev/sdd1/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX and here is where it says, searching ISO for KNOPPIX ?
What did happen after the searching? Did it just hang there? Nothing?

For both USB flash devices, I would expect the boot loader from the DVD to mount the partition image file from the flash storage and to continue booting to the Knoppix desktop, but without mounting the persistent overlayfile system on /dev/sdd2. Did that work?

[klaus2008]

The documentation says
knoppix fromhd=/dev/sda1 Boot from previously copied CD-Image
knoppix bootfrom=/dev/sda1/KNX.iso Access image, boot from ISO-Image.I think one should try
knoppix fromhd=/dev/sdd1

[ttopp]

Hello ttopp

What did happen after the searching? Did it just hang there? Nothing?

For both USB flash devices, I would expect the boot loader from the DVD to mount the partition image file from the flash storage and to continue booting to the Knoppix desktop, but without mounting the persistent overlayfile system on /dev/sdd2. Did that work?

Good Morning. I read your response and clicked reply with quote and I am now typing below your answer. I hope this is the proper way. OK. Yesterday the message was can not find KNOPPIX dir in ISO and it kept cycling through the available areas. This morning I used the 8GB after seeing it has only 1 area, sdd1. Same message and kept cycling. But now I will try again and I will WAIT... to see what it does if it does continue... Thank you. Siddhartha can wait. So can I.:cool:

[ttopp]

Good Morning. I read your response and clicked reply with quote and I am now typing below your answer. I hope this is the proper way. OK. Yesterday the message was can not find KNOPPIX dir in ISO and it kept cycling through the available areas. This morning I used the 8GB after seeing it has only 1 area, sdd1. Same message and kept cycling. But now I will try again and I will WAIT... to see what it does if it does continue... Thank you. Siddhartha can wait. So can I.:cool:

OK. After 28 cycles PC booted to the DVD. As it cycled I tried to see the different messages and noticed a mnt-iso in the text that went by. There is a note after my post that mentions boot hd is that for me to try? Thanks.

[ttopp]

Hurrah Hurrah Hurrah! It worked! knoppix fromhd=/dev/sdd1 Thanks people, - you're the best.

[STraute]

Flash devices onto which ttop had written Knoppix 7.0.5 (both using the experimental installer "flash-knoppix2" and the "traditional" installer) were directly bootable (as USB block storage devices) on some PCs, but not on the main PC of ttop. He could not resolve this via BIOS setup changes.

I had suggested to him (as a Test) to try to boot from a Knoppix CD or DVD; And at the kernel prompt to enter a cheat code in order to mount the compressed read-only file system image in file KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX from the flash device (instead of the copy on the optical medium). The cheat code "knoppix fromhd=/dev/sdX1" does this (not "bootfrom=", as I had wrongly suggested before). ttop replied that this had solved his Knoppix booting problems, which was a suprise for me:

Hurrah Hurrah Hurrah! It worked! knoppix fromhd=/dev/sdd1
Then it occured to me to try this scenario myself, in order to learn what had happened on the PC of ttop. My PC can boot from USB, but I tried to boot from a DVD with Knoppix 7.0.5, while a SDHC memory card with Knoppix 7.0.5 was already inserted/connected. At the kernel/boot prompt I entered the cheat code: knoppix fromhd=/dev/sdb1 . To my suprise, not only did Knoppix continue loading from my SDHC card, but it also had the persistent overlay reiserfs filesystem from the SDHC card mounted. This means one can work with a read-write Knoppix system started from a flash storage device even on PCs which are unable to boot from USB devices! (Provided the PC has a DVD drive and one brings a Knoppix DVD, too.)

To further my (at this point clearly broken) understanding of the Knoppix boot process, I decided to investigate: Like most Linux systems nowadays, the Knoppix kernel first passes control to configuration software (which for example might supplement the kernel with kernel modules for support of the present hardware) before initialising the system services (by using SysV init scripts or upstart or...). The kernel modules and configuration software can be found in a special compressed archieve/file system image file, which gets loaded and used directly after the kernel has finished loading. I have unpacked this file system using these commands:


cd
mkdir minirt
cd minirt
gzip -dc /mnt-system/boot/syslinux/minirt.gz | cpio -idv 2>minirt_cpio_errors.log
The cpio command will try to unpack even the special files in the /dev directory of this file system, but this will fail and cause error messages because user knoppix does not have the needed permissions to invoke mknod to create the special files.

Anyway, after this I could read the system configuration script using this:

less init This shell script implements the support for most of the Knoppix cheat codes. The version on the Knoppix 7.0.5 DVD images not only identifies a storage device from which the file system image in file KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX can be mounted, it also looks for a second partition on the same device from which an overlay file system can be mounted (as /KNOPPIX-DATA) for persistent storage (among many other measures). It will not find such a partition on a DVD or CD (No partitioning, therefore no second partition), but if directed to another storage medium using the "fromhd=" cheat code, then the script does find it there and mounts it. This behavior is flexible and very useful!

[ttopp]

Flash devices onto which ttop had written Knoppix 7.0.5 (both using the experimental installer "flash-knoppix2" and the "traditional" installer) were directly bootable (as USB block storage devices) on some PCs, but not on the main PC of ttop. He could not resolve this via BIOS setup changes.

I had suggested to him (as a Test) to try to boot from a Knoppix CD or DVD; And at the kernel prompt to enter a cheat code in order to mount the compressed read-only file system image in file KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX from the flash device (instead of the copy on the optical medium). The cheat code "knoppix fromhd=/dev/sdX1" does this (not "bootfrom=", as I had wrongly suggested before). ttop replied that this had solved his Knoppix booting problems, which was a suprise for me:

Then it occured to me to try this scenario myself, in order to learn what had happened on the PC of ttop. My PC can boot from USB, but I tried to boot from a DVD with Knoppix 7.0.5, while a SDHC memory card with Knoppix 7.0.5 was already inserted/connected. At the kernel/boot prompt I entered the cheat code: knoppix fromhd=/dev/sdb1 . To my suprise, not only did Knoppix continue loading from my SDHC card, but it also had the persistent overlay reiserfs filesystem from the SDHC card mounted. This means one can work with a read-write Knoppix system started from a flash storage device even on PCs which are unable to boot from USB devices! (Provided the PC has a DVD drive and one brings a Knoppix DVD, too.)

To further my (at this point clearly broken) understanding of the Knoppix boot process, I decided to investigate: Like most Linux systems nowadays, the Knoppix kernel first passes control to configuration software (which for example might supplement the kernel with kernel modules for support of the present hardware) before initialising the system services (by using SysV init scripts or upstart or...). The kernel modules and configuration software can be found in a special compressed archieve/file system image file, which gets loaded and used directly after the kernel has finished loading. I have unpacked this file system using these commands:


cd
mkdir minirt
cd minirt
gzip -dc /mnt-system/boot/syslinux/minirt.gz | cpio -idv 2>minirt_cpio_errors.log
The cpio command will try to unpack even the special files in the /dev directory of this file system, but this will fail and cause error messages because user knoppix does not have the needed permissions to invoke mknod to create the special files.

Anyway, after this I could read the system configuration script using this:

less init This shell script implements the support for most of the Knoppix cheat codes. The version on the Knoppix 7.0.5 DVD images not only identifies a storage device from which the file system image in file KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX can be mounted, it also looks for a second partition on the same device from which an overlay file system can be mounted (as /KNOPPIX-DATA) for persistent storage (among many other measures). It will not find such a partition on a DVD or CD (No partitioning, therefore no second partition), but if directed to another storage medium using the "fromhd=" cheat code, then the script does find it there and mounts it. This behavior is flexible and very useful!

Great! But, Does this mean that I am stuck with needing a DVD or a pre configured floppy disk to get the USB booted? I have a floppy drive if someone would care to share how to get this done. Thanks again for staying with me on this issue.

[utu]

.
I use a LiveUSB made from Knoppix 7.0.5 LiveCD.
I note that when either the LiveCD or the LiveUSB is booted, that
there is a file '/init' in the root directory '/'
which is root:root ownership, dated 20 Dec 2012, and 38932 bytes.

Is this the same or different than the 'init' one finds using the cpio route?

Thanks.

[STraute]

Hello utu;



I use a LiveUSB made from Knoppix 7.0.5 LiveCD.
I note that when either the LiveCD or the LiveUSB is booted, that
there is a file '/init' in the root directory '/'
which is root:root ownership, dated 20 Dec 2012, and 38932 bytes.

Is this the same or different than the 'init' one finds using the cpio route?

I think it is indeed the same init file: While playing with the bootfrom= cheat code (to learn what I had wrought upon poor ttop with my "shot from the hip" test suggestion), I was able to interrupt the repeating search across devices for a KNOPPIX image files by pressing the Ctrl+C keys. I was then left in a shell, from which I could access a root file system containig some scripts and kernel modules (.ko suffix).

I remembered the initrd boot file system approach then. The "cpio route" for unpacking minirt.gz is just something I made up to make the init boot script accessible in a more complete Linux environment (and without interrupting the boot process in such a drastic way).

[STraute]

Hello ttopp;


But, Does this mean that I am stuck with needing a DVD or a pre configured floppy disk to get the USB booted?
Well, I still don't know why Your PC can boot Spinrite from flash storage but seemingly nothing else. Therefore I don't yet have an answer.


I have a floppy drive if someone would care to share how to get this done.
Sorry, I can't help you there either. The only PC (Laptop) with a floppy drive I still have does not have usable USB ports. But I remember to be able to write boot floppies for/from a Linux Installation on the internal hard disk of that laptop. That was a nice way to preserve boot loaders of other OS on the HDD of the laptop.
Knoppix still comes with the needed tools, I think: fdformat and grub-mkrescue (or grub-mkimage) might be the ticket for that. Perhaps other forum members can help you to find and test a procedure for making a Knoppix 7.0.5 boot floppy?

[STraute]

This old thread about Knoppix boot floppies might have suggestions:
http://knoppix.net/forum/threads/2221-Faster-Smaller-Boot-Floppy!
(Sorry for the seperate post, I found this only after my posting edit period expired.)

[ttopp]

Hello ttopp;


Well, I still don't know why Your PC can boot Spinrite from flash storage but seemingly nothing else. Therefore I don't yet have an answer.


Sorry, I can't help you there either. The only PC (Laptop) with a floppy drive I still have does not have usable USB ports. But I remember to be able to write boot floppies for/from a Linux Installation on the internal hard disk of that laptop. That was a nice way to preserve boot loaders of other OS on the HDD of the laptop.
Knoppix still comes with the needed tools, I think: fdformat and grub-mkrescue (or grub-mkimage) might be the ticket for that. Perhaps other forum members can help you to find and test a procedure for making a Knoppix 7.0.5 boot floppy?

Thank you so much. And, the 256MB USB that booted Spinrite had a FreeDOS on it -if I hadn't mentioned it-, prior to now. I apologize, I thought I covered all the particulars. I last used LILO so I am now off to read up on, grub? Thank you.

[deviouswun]

As a new user to Knoppix, and Linux in general, I could not get Knoppix 7.0.5 (Experimental) to install on my USB due to the error message saying that the overlay must be set at 400MB.

I read Straute’sposts, 11 and 21, over and over trying as a FNG to understand what he was advising Philo to do and most importantly, how to do it. So with the little UNIX knowledge I have, I ventured down the following path.

To apply this fix/patch I used vi editor. Google “vi editor commands” if you’re not familiar with vi

1- Open a terminal window and at the “knoppix@Microknoppix:-$” prompt type su then hit[Enter]
2- At the “root@Microknoppix:/home/knoppix#” prompt type “cd /usr/bin” hit [Enter]
3- At the next prompt type “vi flash-knoppix2 [Enter]
4- At the #!/bin/bash prompt, use your down arrow key to scroll down to line “367,1.
You should be on the line that reads “total="$(awk '{print ($1 / 2048 )}'/sys/block/"${FLASH##*/}"/size 2>/dev/null)"
5- Use your right arrow key to scroll over to “total="$(awk'{print”
6- Place your cursor just after the word {print_” and press the letter “i” to Insert characters.
7- Make these changes: {printf ("%d", ($1 / 2048 ) )}’
8- Hit the ESC key, then type “:wq [Enter]” to write and save your changes to flash-knoppix2.
9- Open another terminal window and again type su [Enter]
10- Type “cd /user/bin/ [Enter]”
11- Type “ flash-knoppex2 [Enter]
12- When the “flash-knoppix (as superuser)” window opens, select your USB drive and click on [OK]
13- At the next window select option “p” and click on [OK]
14- You can now proceed with the install without the “overlay must be set at400MB’ message

I hope this is of some helpto those new to Linux and newer to Knoppix.

[utu]

@ deviouswun

Nicely done and welcome to the forum.
Your helpful tutelage should be much appreciated.

IMO vi is for experts. Not having a UNIX background, per se,
I retreated to Leafpad (or its equivalent) long ago.

Regards, and please continue contributing.

[Werner P. Schulz]

KK has already corrected this error with
..
elif [ "p" = "$METHOD" ]; then
total="$(awk '{print int($1 / 2048)}' /sys/block/"${FLASH##*/}"/size 2>/dev/null)"
..http://debian-knoppix.alioth.debian.org/utilities/flash-knoppix2