Updating or not?

[joselb]

Thank you for this great forum.
I am from Spain and I have some doubts about if it's possible or not to update some programs included with knoppix. I am interested to always update to the latest packages or new versions of Chromium and Iceweasel, is it possible without breaking Knoppix?, must I change the apt sources.lists to different lines?
Thank you all for your support.
Jose

[Jeffery Mewtamer]

I've been running the latest iceweasel from Debian Testing and have never had an issue with an upgrade. Then again, I'm running an extremely stripped down knoppix and there may be something in vanilla Knoppix that would interfere with keeping Iceweasel up-to-date. Regarding Apt configuration: The default Knoppix sources.list includes, among others, both Debian Stable and Debian Testing, along with Knoppix's own repository. You might want to clean it up some, but leaving it as the default shouldn't cause any problems. What might cause problems is a line in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00 knoppix(filename typed from memory, maybe slightly off) which sets the default realese for apt. By default, the line in question looks like: apt::default-release "squeeze"; In Knoppix 4.2.0. Squeeze is presentally Debian Oldstable, which isn't in the sources.list, and most APT frontends will throw an error and refuse to function if there isn't a matching sources.list line for the default release. if you change squeeze to jessie(for Debian Stable) or stretch(for Debian Testing), this problem will be fix. This line acts as a limiter to what updates will be installed. If you remove or comment out this line, your package manager will prefer the version with the highest version number regardless of it's source, while if this line is present, your package manager will prefer the version for the designated release unless the installed version is already of a higher release number. In other words, if the default-release is set to Debian Stable, updates from Debain Testing or Knoppix will only be installed if you force them or you're already running a version that looks newer than the version in Stable. Note: I may have gotten squeeze and wheezy mixed up(one is presently Debian oldstable, the other Debian oldoldstable), but in either case, you'll want to change it to Jeesy or stretch depending on whether you want Debian Stable or Debian Testing as your default release. I hope this helps.

[joselb]

Thank you very much!Now, when trying to update it seems I should update all the packages from knoppix por something like that. Maybe this mix of versions in knoppix (stable, testing...) make things more difficult to update with some security and not breaking the o.s., but it's also what makes it so great. So, I am a bit loss about what to do...My preference would be an usb o.s. as fast as knoppix with the option to update some important programs like the browser and security problems. Now I use Firefox downloaded manually. I have tried to update chromium or install chrome without success. I love knoppix and I don't know if this is posible, even paying for it.

[joselb]

Hello Jeffery, I changed 00knoppix to jessie, I made an apt-get update and then upgrade, and knoppix needs 1500 MB to upgrade. I am testing it just now. How is your knoppix?, is it modified?, have you deleted many programs?. I only need a knoppix with the minimal programs and being updated. Maybe I am asking too much. If you or anyone in this forum can help please I am listening. Thanks a lot

[Jeffery Mewtamer]

It has been nearly a year since the last public release of Knoppix, which coupled with a new stable release of Debian earlier this year means just about every package included in Knoppix is an old version. When I did a clean install on my new laptop(since using partimage to clone my old laptop's root partition didn't work), it took me most of a weekend just to do the most basic of my customizations(namely, marking every package as automatically installed and going through Aptitude's auroremove list to mark stuff I need as manually installed, and upgrading packages left by the big purge who would upgrade without Aptitude complaining, and even that much is beyond what I could in good conscious recommend to a newbie). Given the large number of packages in 7.4.2 that are out-of-date, unless you really know what you are doing, you might be better off sticking with the older versions and wait until 7.6 comes out to try an install that is kept up-to-date. If you do try either upgrading everything that is installed or purging stuff you don't need, I'd recommend doing it in phases rather than all at once. Also, for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure the default version of Iceweasel is already a newer version than the one found in Jessy(the pre-installed version being 32.something whereas Jessy runs 31.something(granted, I think Iceweasel 31 is a long term support version while Iceweasel 32 is a minor release, so the version in Jessie might have more security fixes).

[joselb]

Thank you very much Jeffery.

[joselb]

Well,
I tried and I didn't get it, a lot of problems updating and yes: I tried many different options.
I surrender, it's a nightmare!
Thank you all anyway.

[Werner P. Schulz]

You can update but not upgrade Knoppix.
Harddrive Installation (http://knoppix.net/wiki/Category:Hard_drive_Installation) → Warning

And have a look at Debian release changed (http://knoppix.net/forum/threads/31408-Debian-release-changed?p=132327&viewfull=1#post132327)

[Harry Kuhman]

Some people will say yes, some will say no. I do not consider myself a Linux expert but I've been around this forum a long time and watched Knoppix evolve from its first public release. In my unenlightened opinion the issue is that Knoppix is not made from a pure Debian release but rather from a mix of "stable", "unstable"(but still more stable than anything Microsoft sells to the public), and "testing" releases. Since many packages in Linux have inter-dependencies, this can be a tricky issue that can cause problems. Klaus has supposedly tested this mix for conflicts (although it is doubtful that he can ever expect to catch everything), but when you revise some of the programs you can introduce new dependency issues. It often still works, but you increase your chances of introducing problems.

The Debian philosophy is to stick within one single release (I personally prefer unstable and have always found it very stable, I would only use the older official "stable" release for things like servers in mission critical 24/7/365 applications). There can always be bugs and things that testing never caught, but this greatly reduces the chances for bad interactions between packages.

What I don't understand is, why would you want to treat Knoppix as if it was a distribution? Your having asked the question shows that you understand there are some issues. Why not just install and use Debian, the Linux that Knoppix is built on? Knoppix is a great Live DVD, but I don't understand what people think they get from Knoppix that they don't get from a distribution that is intended to be installed and then run from hard disk and updated and upgraded. Is it simply that Knoppix is the first Linux that you saw and you refuse to consider other options?

[joselb]

You can update but not upgrade Knoppix. Harddrive Installation (http://knoppix.net/wiki/Category:Hard_drive_Installation) → Warning And have a look at Debian release changed (http://knoppix.net/forum/threads/31408-Debian-release-changed?p=132327&viewfull=1#post132327) Thank you Werner, I will take a look and read it.

[joselb]

Some people will say yes, some will say no....[snip] Yes, I understand what you say and it's true. About updating Knoppix: I have tried many linux distros in pendrive and knoppix is the fastest of all. But knoppix includes many programs I don't need and using it daily could be a great security problem. Every day some new vulnerabilities are found, and if someone enters in my pc it's possible to mount my hard drive with windos, and you know what could happen. And of course if I am posting or browsing personal or private information then it's a great risk. I only have 1 GB ram in my pc and also where I work. So, I need some live usb working fast and being easy to use. Knoppix is perfect except those points. I know knoppix is not made to use it like that, and I even installed Debian in my pendrive but it's very slow with lxde. Knoppix is the best and fastest :)


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Full quote deleted.
wps

[Werner P. Schulz]

But knoppix includes many programs I don't need and using it daily could be a great security problem.
What? Either you need a program and use it or you don't need and don't start it. Why could a program you never start be a security problem?

Another thing are services, but by default no service within Knoppix is going outside as server to WAN.

[joselb]

What? Either you need a program and use it or you don't need and don't start it. Why could a program you never start be a security problem? Another thing are services, but by default no service within Knoppix is going outside as server to WAN. Sorry, I meant about services, and I didn´t know that all of them were working inside by default. I was always removing cups as open port because I never print with knoppix. Do you know some website where knoppix enthusiasts remaster it and upload it?. It would be great. I could use knoppix cd (I love this knoppix with few programs and size) but it has a bug with openvpn importing the configurations (it never works) and it´s very hard to me to configure all the servers by hand. I need to use openvpn in some places wth knoppix. Thank you again.

[Jeffery Mewtamer]

@harry: In general, I'd tend to agree. Even with a brand new release, getting Knoppix installed on a hard drive and tweaked to my liking is a lot more time consuming than I remember it taking with Debian and the infrequent public releases only make the task that more difficult as times goes on. The only reason I'm using a knoppix disc as my install media instead of the latest beta of Debian testing is that no variant of vanilla Debian, at least to my knowledge, offers the kind of out-of-the-box blind accessibility offered by Knoppix in Adriane mode and I don't access to anyone who can reliable help in setting up Debian for blind use. If Adriane ever gets ported upstream and an Adriane version of Debian CD1 is made available, I'd ditch Knoppix and never look back. But yeah, I'd totally recommend giving Vanilla Debian a try for Hard drive installs unless you know for a fact you need something that is knoppix specific.

[_yes]

This is a quote from Klaus: "sudo apt install -t unstable chromium sudo apt install -t unstable firefox[-esr] If you are looking for security-related updates, you can also do update-security" while you are in the same release (now 8.6.x). I updated my browser twice already and the first time Chromium kept crashing after 5 minutes or so, which was solved with the second update. Now, why knoppix? The same reason Klaus uses it: keep desktop, network credentials, browser cookies, and encrypted information wherever you can go with a USB memory. I have Debian installed in my computer. And, even though this question was made ages ago, it still shows in the search, and needed some response, imo.