Why not go all the way?

[three eyes open]

I know, I know, Knoppix was meant to run off the cd, and this is especially great for diskless PCs or maybe for those with a very small drive or a USB memory device.

But - we already have the DVD version with Mr. Franz's installation script. I'm going to order mine next week and install it. So why not go ahead and make a version of Knoppix meant for hard drive installation? Maybe a multi-cd distro with only the first cd being required (and please keep it Debian-compatible)?

Now, I'm not suggesting that the live cd Knoppix be abandoned, not at all. (And if I understand correctly, it's planned for Knoppix to become modular like Morphix - this means you can choose exactly what apps you want to be on the cd.) I just think a full-fledged Knoppix-hd distro would be great too, if Mr. Knopper can find the people to do this. I'd do it myself but the only coding I know is html.

Surely I'm not the only person who's interested in this?

[monkymind]

So why not go ahead and make a version of Knoppix meant for hard drive installation? Maybe a multi-cd distro with only the first cd being required (and please keep it Debian-compatible)?

Surely I'm not the only person who's interested in this?

You mean something like this? :-
http://www.mepis.org/

:lol:

rob

[three eyes open]

Mepis is close, but doesn't have all of the features of the DVD. I found it a bit annoying that wheel mice aren't supported. Still, I be the next version will and also be more application-centric.

[bongski55]

The way I understand it,knoppix is actually Debian testing/unstable in which Mr. Knopper had modified to fit in a single cd. This is evident when one installs to the HD.
Another way it is explained in this forum is that it is Debian with a simplified installation procedure.
So to ask for a multiple cd version is actually asking for the debian CDs to be distributed as knoppix.
For me one big reason why I switched from mandrake is the single CD knoppix needs to have a working linux installation.
But this is only "me".

Likewise let me qoute an excerp from the latest interview of the guy himself:



technobeast: Do you have any plans for a Knoppix HDD installation distro?


KK: The feature and installation scripts are already there, but there is no "INSTALL ME"-Button. You can install with either knx-hdinstall or knoppix-install, the latter is available in the LinuxTag DVD-Version and in the next CD release.
Problem: I never intended to publish another installable distribution. People expect an installation manual and personal support, and I cannot do this for free in my free time. So, I would like to keep the - already possible -harddisk installation a "hidden feature", and leave the development and support for an installer to others.

===

[theARE]

I think it's fine as it is. If anything the only suggestion I would have is to improve the knx-hdinstall script, make it easier, give it a nice GUI and maybe make it more prominent.

Once knoppix is installed it does become debian, so you can add whatever software you want to it. If you dont have a high speed internet access, you can still get a copy of the Debian cd's and add software off those.

I'm not sure about the idea of making knoppix modular, one of it's big appeals in my oppinion is it's simplicity, it just works; making people build and customize their own could get messy and make knoppix less popular.

[three eyes open]

The way I understand it,knoppix is actually Debian testing/unstable in which Mr. Knopper had modified to fit in a single cd. This is evident when one installs to the HD.
Another way it is explained in this forum is that it is Debian with a simplified installation procedure.
So to ask for a multiple cd version is actually asking for the debian CDs to be distributed as knoppix.
For me one big reason why I switched from mandrake is the single CD knoppix needs to have a working linux installation.
But this is only "me".

Likewise let me qoute an excerp from the latest interview of the guy himself:



technobeast: Do you have any plans for a Knoppix HDD installation distro?


KK: The feature and installation scripts are already there, but there is no "INSTALL ME"-Button. You can install with either knx-hdinstall or knoppix-install, the latter is available in the LinuxTag DVD-Version and in the next CD release.
Problem: I never intended to publish another installable distribution. People expect an installation manual and personal support, and I cannot do this for free in my free time. So, I would like to keep the - already possible -harddisk installation a "hidden feature", and leave the development and support for an installer to others.

===



That is exactly what I've been proposing; an updated Debian with Knoppix's hardware detection and simplified installation. Nor was I asking Mr. Knopper to do this; I already understand that he has enough to do. What i was hoping was that someone reading this post who has the knowledge and the skill to do this would consider it if they saw there were people who wished they would do it.

I wasn't asking that Knoppix as it is be changed. It was Mr. Knopper himself in an interview who said that it is being strongly considered to make the next version of knoppix modular.

I was asking for someone to develop a second versaion of Knoppix based on the DVD edition so it wouldn't become outdated itself in the future for people like me who want to install it to their hard drive.

[bongski55]

I wasn't asking that Knoppix as it is be changed. It was Mr. Knopper himself in an interview who said that it is being strongly considered to make the next version of knoppix modular.

for modular there is Morphix which is even ahead of knoppix in using a new kernel.


I was asking for someone to develop a second versaion of Knoppix based on the DVD edition so it wouldn't become outdated itself in the future for people like me who want to install it to their hard drive.

Once installed to hard disk, you can always make your debian up to date by 'apt-get update'.Also you can update the kernel yourself even ahead of knoppix.

Please understand that I am not against improvements or some similar things in the future, I just don't agree with knoppix becoming multicd like mandrake,red hat and even the original debian which is a 7 cd set. I even do not have a dvd drive and I will not purchase one just to accomodate future versions of knoppix.

[Superstoned]

I agree. whatever happens to knoppix, it shouldnt be a 2-cd system or whatever. the cool thing is that its an fully functional (linux)operatingsystem on 1 cd... why change that?

[Dave_Bechtel]

--The installer script doesn't NEED a GUI. All it's doing is copying files and asking a few questions. If you put a GUI in the way you make the thing horribly more complex and resource-intensive.

--You have to keep in mind that some people still have low-memory systems, and some people don't much like fancy graphics getting in the way of a utility that just has to *work* reliably and simply without a lot of overhead. (Like me - I use sawfish with no background, rxvt and occasionally Konsole if the CPU requirements aren't too high. Once I caught kdeinit using 30% CPU and doing NOTHING in vmware, and switched to gnome-terminal for tabbed commandline windows. But I'm something of a utilitarian minimalist.)

--The way it is now, you can install to HD from text-mode w/o X windows even running - and that's the way I like it.

"My *nix command line 0WNZ0RZ your fancy GUI." -- KingNeutron


I think it's fine as it is. If anything the only suggestion I would have is to improve the knx-hdinstall script, make it easier, give it a nice GUI and maybe make it more prominent.

[Superstoned]

--The installer script doesn't NEED a GUI. All it's doing is copying files and asking a few questions. If you put a GUI in the way you make the thing horribly more complex and resource-intensive.

--You have to keep in mind that some people still have low-memory systems, and some people don't much like fancy graphics getting in the way of a utility that just has to *work* reliably and simply without a lot of overhead. (Like me - I use sawfish with no background, rxvt and occasionally Konsole if the CPU requirements aren't too high. Once I caught kdeinit using 30% CPU and doing NOTHING in vmware, and switched to gnome-terminal for tabbed commandline windows. But I'm something of a utilitarian minimalist.)

--The way it is now, you can install to HD from text-mode w/o X windows even running - and that's the way I like it.

"My *nix command line 0WNZ0RZ your fancy GUI." -- KingNeutron

maybe you're just outdated ;-)

(just joking, no offence meant)

although I prefer it graphical - I understand for *nix fans commandline is sacred...

[Stephen]

although I prefer it graphical - I understand for *nix fans commandline is sacred...

I don't think it is the command line is sacred a graphical installer would take up more space than a script and space on the CD is at a premium so it's a matter of what useful program gets removed so you can have the graphic installer.

[Superstoned]

I guess the way fabian's knoppix-installer works, a "graphical" installer doesnt take more space compared to an non-graphical script...???

[Dave_Bechtel]

--Outdated and underrated, and I'm only 31 - look what you have to look forward to! :P


maybe you're just outdated ;-)

(just joking, no offence meant)

although I prefer it graphical - I understand for *nix fans commandline is sacred...

[Superstoned]

damn :D
within the next 9 years I'll become as *outdated* as you are... :shock:

damn didnt expect that... although... last week's saterday evening I chose to stay home, cuz I was not interested in going out - strange thing for me... looks like its beginning ;)

and beside that, commandline might be for outdated ppl (I'll have to learn working with it quick ;)) but I guess graphical is for the retarded/stupid/slow - so I'll have to through a period when I'm learning to be outdated, while still retarded :roll: