[HOWTO]: Dual-boot Knoppix with Windows NT/2000/XP

[jdong]

Ok, I just confirmed that this procedure works. Tried it on TWO PC's. One XP, the other 2000.

This procedure will install a 'true' dual-boot of Knoppix. Not poor-man's install, REAL dual-boot. Plus, with the help of some free tools, you can do it without damage to your data.... Here it goes...

(Expected System Configuration, modify if needed): 2 physical Hard disks. C:\ drive is NTFS with Win NT/2k/XP installed. D:\ drive is empty.


(1) MOST IMPORTANT: Make backups of all your important data. Imagine that all your data is gone. Think about what you need to backup. Although this procedure shouldn't cause any data loss, when you're doing something of this magnitude (messing with partitions and installing new OS), you should backup. Not to mention that you should REGULARLY backup!!

(2) Create an 'ERD' (Emergency Repair Disk). This can restore your MBR in case you really goof! The process depends on your OS:
(2a) Windows NT 4: Run 'RDISK.exe'.
(2b) Win 2000 and XP: Start the Windows Backup tool, then choose 'Emergency Repair Disk'. XP/2k users have the Recovery Console and FIXMBR, plus XP users have a 'repair install' mode, so an ERD isn't too necessary for them.

(3) Boot the Knoppix CD.

(4) Start a Terminal session.

(5) Type in sudo knx-hdinstall (yes, use this older install script. From my experience, it's more stable/reliable.)

(6) Next, partition your /dev/hdb. I'm no Linux partition expert, so I just make a 300MB swap partition and use the remaining space for a Linux partition.

(7) The steps from here to after files copy should be self-explanatory.

(8) Once you get to the prompt 'Install LILO into MBR?', make sure you answer NO. Failure to do so could mean that your Windows boot partition will be removed, and you'll have to use your ERB/ Recovery Console.

(9) When prompted to make a boot floppy, make sure you make a boot floppy!. It's REQUIRED in a later step.

(10) Once Knoppix setup is done, remove the floppy and reboot. Make sure Windows still works. After doing so, pat yourself on the back... the hardest part is over!!

(11) Next, start up your computer from the boot floppy. It should load the copy of Knoppix that you just installed. If this works, then pat yourself on the back again! You're almost done!

(12) Once Knoppix is running, get to a console/terminal again. Make sure your boot floppy is still inserted!

(13) Issue the command dd if=/dev/hdx# of=/bootsect.knx bs=512 count=1. This will copy the Linux bootsector to a file. Replace hdx# with your installation partition (like hdb2)

(14) Now, insert a blank floppy into your floppy drive. Issue the command mkfs.msdos /dev/fd0. This will format the floppy to a Windows/FAT12 filesystem.

(15) Issue mount /dev/fd0

(16) Now, copy that bootsector image! cp /bootsect.knx /floppy

(17) Take the floppy out. Reboot into Windows.

(18) Copy your bootsect.knx into C:\.

(19) Start a MS-DOS prompt. Type in the following: (each newline = new command)

c:
cd \
attrib -h -r -s boot.ini
copy boot.ini boot.old
notepad boot.ini

(20) Notepad will start, with Boot.ini loaded. Edit the first line, 'Timeout=30'. Change it to 'Timeout=5'. This changes your boot selection timeout to 5 seconds, instead of 30.

(21) At the very end of the file, add C:\bootsect.knx = "Knoppix"

(22) Save the file. Get back to that command prompt. Issue attrib +h +r +s boot.ini.

(23) Reboot. Now, you should have two options: your previous Windows OS and Knoppix. Done!

[garyng]

An alternative method :

1. go to here http://www.skyjammer.com/files/knoppix

2. get the w32grub.zip and unzip it to c:\, it is already a directory tree

3. run c:\boot\grub\w32grub

4. add 'c:\boot\stage1="GRUB"' to c:\boot.ini

Now there is a GRUB boot loader in your W2K/XP system.

Install your KNOPPIX as usual but don't let it touch your boot loader.

in c:\boot\grub\menu.lst add the following(just an example)

title KNOPPIX
root (hd0,2)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz
initrd /boot/initrd

and you can boot load your KNOPPIX. For detail about GRUB, read the manual on their main site.

If you want poorman's install(FAT only), follow the instruction in the doc on this site on how to extract the big file as well as the boot.img from the ISO and follow the followin procedure

1. get memdisk from syslinux site and put in c:\boot
2. put the boot.img(from the ISO) to c:\boot
2. add the following to c:\boot\grub\menu.lst

title Poor man's KNOPPIX
root (hd0,1)
kernel /boot/memdisk
initrd /boot/boot.img

Now you can boot a poorman's KNOPPIX, this is the same as making the floppy image from the ISO, it just don' need a physical floppy for the purpose. Kudo to the authors of the programs mentioned.

The only caveat is that one needs an ISO extraction tool to get the big file in the download image. I am not sure if knoppix-customize(it can get the boot.img without problem) can do this, otherwise a commerical software(there is some shareware or limited ware like magiciso) is needed. So this is still a 'poorman's installation', not a broken man's installation(doing all these from completely free as lunch tools).

[NikiBob]

I am very happy with the Graphical Boot Manager - GAG http://gag.sourceforge.net. Have a look at these screenshoots:
http://gag.sourceforge.net/pics.html .

[garyng]

It may be good looking but I would choose NOT to use it. Chances are, if you install it to a harddisk, it will intefere with NT boot loader. It use the 'no man's land' on track 0 for its storage shich unfortunately NT boot loader also use.

[monkymind]

It may be good looking but I would choose NOT to use it. Chances are, if you install it to a harddisk, it will intefere with NT boot loader. It use the 'no man's land' on track 0 for its storage shich unfortunately NT boot loader also use.

I've used it for years and it doesn't affect the NT bootloader.
Other advantages are ... you can run it off a floppy or install it to the MBR.
Password protect configuration and operating systems selection etc.

Plus it takes a few seconds to restore if some Mi$behaving OS wipes it off :shock:

cheers
rob

[garyng]

thanks for the information, it is good to hear that it doesn't. I have tried another one call Smart Boot Manager which does similar things as GAG(at least from the description) but it gives me very bad experience.

Anyway, the essence of linux and the open source is about choice. So long we have something to meet our needs, we are all happy. For me, GRUB is the one that meet my need :-)

[jdong]

nice to see all the suggestions....


My original goal was a simple dual-booting process while keeping the NT bootloader intact. As far as I'm concerned, the NT bootloader is a fine bootloader, and should be left there...

[phire2050]

:?: i followed your tutorial and got all the way to booting with the floppy when it says boot failed insert other disk and press a key. or something like that. am i missing something? <___noob

[jdong]

Oh my, oh my.... Seems like I typed too quickly.... Mistake here.


dd if=/dev/fd0 of=/bootsect.knx bs=512 count=1

should be

dd if=/dev/hdx# of=/bootsect.knx bs=512 count=1

where hdx# is your Knoppix boot partition.

[j.drake]

Thanks for the idea!

Worked for me with Mandrake also. Unfortunately, the installation program didn't ask me which disk to boot from, and I erroneously assumed that since I was installing to the second drive that it would insert the boot loader on that drive also. Wrong. I caught it later before finishing the install, but not before it screwed up the MBR on C: Anyway, I changed the boot order in BIOS, so all works OK now, and I just have to fix the C: drive boot partition in case I ever remove the second HD.

[audioaficionado]

XOSL boot manager and Ranish partition tools can do it all on several HDs but you have to make sure you read and understand the documentation thoroughly.

[jduff]

It's amazing how difficult people make things for themselves. Here you go, now pay attention.

1.) Partition with qtparted
2.) Install Knoppix but leave out that lilo thing
3.) Install GAG
4.) Drink beer

Now wasn't that easy? And I know you liked that beer part.

[audioaficionado]

It's amazing how difficult people make things for themselves. Here you go, now pay attention.

1.) Partition with qtparted
2.) Install Knoppix but leave out that lilo thing
3.) Install GAG
4.) Drink beer

Now wasn't that easy? And I know you liked that beer part.

You're going to have to elaborate some.

[softgun]

Where do we get qtparted on a Knoppix CD?
Install Knoopix but not the bootloader, right?
Install GAG and it will recognise the two OSs automatically?
Is the beer on you?

[Paradox]

Just added another YES to the Poll.

I had XP Pro on C:, along with another harddrive chock-full of Media file goodness.

Installed a 3rd Hard Drive in a 5.25 inch bay (out of normal HD bays), then followed your procedure step-by-step.

Worked flawlessly, and I'm now dual-booting XP and Knoppix with no problems.

Thanks!

[Mr Wonka]

Sorry to spoil the 100% you had but i could not get this procedure to work.

I'm a complete newb and so followed the procedure you had layed out exactly. It all went fine apart from the actual booting bit.
Turn computer on. Select operating system -> Knoppix. Hang there, with a flashing cursor, until the cows come home.

So I installed GAG (twas the only way) and it worked. So i'm happy nontheless.

Only problem is that now knoppix isn't regognising my hardware like the CD version does. No USB sound and no USB Cable modem.

Guess i better start fiquring out this module malarky.

Cheers
Mr Wonka

[Paradox]

Actually, my post was a tad hasty.

Following the procedure, my computer DOES display the windows bootloader with XP and Knoppix.

But if I select Knoppix, it just prints out half a screen of "01 01 01" and hangs.

Any advice?

Edit: haven't had time to confirm this yet, but I think the above was just a symptom of my BIOS hiccuping and not recognizing the new harddrive (this has since been fixed).

Still booted from floppy, but running Evolution, MPlayer, and Mozilla. I'm set. :D

Final Edit: Yup, just a BIOS hiccup. Procedure worked perfectly.[/b]

[BNutzer]

If you want poorman's install(FAT only), follow the instruction in the doc on this site on how to extract the big file as well as the boot.img from the ISO and follow the followin procedure

1. get memdisk from syslinux site and put in c:\boot
2. put the boot.img(from the ISO) to c:\boot
2. add the following to c:\boot\grub\menu.lst

title Poor man's KNOPPIX
root (hd0,1)
kernel /boot/memdisk
initrd /boot/boot.img
with XP's bootloader you don't even need memdisk for poor man's install either.

i have extracted vmlinuz and miniroot.gz from boot.img (which can be done easily by creating the floppy from boot.img) and use those two in menu.lst as well. one big advantage in my view is that you can then append syslinux.cfg parameters in the "kernel" line of menu.lst and thus also provide different preconfigured ways to boot knoppix like e.g. different "desktop=" entries.

[garyng]

If you want poorman's install(FAT only), follow the instruction in the doc on this site on how to extract the big file as well as the boot.img from the ISO and follow the followin procedure

1. get memdisk from syslinux site and put in c:\boot
2. put the boot.img(from the ISO) to c:\boot
2. add the following to c:\boot\grub\menu.lst

title Poor man's KNOPPIX
root (hd0,1)
kernel /boot/memdisk
initrd /boot/boot.img
with XP's bootloader you don't even need memdisk for poor man's install either.

i have extracted vmlinuz and miniroot.gz from boot.img (which can be done easily by creating the floppy from boot.img) and use those two in menu.lst as well. one big advantage in my view is that you can then append syslinux.cfg parameters in the "kernel" line of menu.lst and thus also provide different preconfigured ways to boot knoppix like e.g. different "desktop=" entries.

True. Except that putting yourself in a situation where you are running Window, how are you going to get vmlinuz and miniroot.gz from boot.img ? I outlined the procedure in a way such that everything can be done from within the evil OS, without burning CD or making floppy. There are lots of tools under Windows to manipulate ISO9660 file on disk, but none I can find that can read the ext2 file on disk.

For an experienced user like you, of course booting directly from GRUB is a much better option as different kernel can be specified as well as booting parameters tailor made as you mentioned.

[panther]

Hey guys!

I've got a problem here that I think only you guys could help me out?

The thing is that my WINDOWS hddisk is partitioned in 2
C: for all the program files,etc...
and D: for MY DOCUMENTS

so when I did a "attrib -h -r -s boot.ini" in C:
It wasn't able to find a boot.ini
So I searched for it and found it in D:

so I did everything the same, except I did them in D:
So my bootsect.knx is in C: but my boot.ini is in D:

When I restart I can "see" Knoppix on the NT bootloader but
when I select it I get a error as so:

Bla bla bla FAILED:
<Windows Folder>/system32/Hal.dll not found!
Wasnot able to load.

So I checked this so called "Hal.dll" and it exists always in my c:Windows/system32 folder?

What should I do?
Do I need a specific line in my boot.ini?
Or something like that?

Thanks a lot!

P.S. I installed Knoppix 3.3 on a seperate Harddrive

[A. Jorge Garcia]

OK, all this grub, gag and XP bootloader stuff is great. But is there anyway to accomplish this, ie: dual booting without boot floppy or lilo in mbr, that doesn't involve the "Evil OS"?

I cannot modify files on the XP partition except when running KNOPPIX. The tech guys at my school are always running scared so when you boot into M$ WINDOZE, they have a security program called Deep Freeze start up that doesn't let you modify any settings or even write to the hdd!

In other words, is there anyway to install grub or gag or use the XP bootloader and not have to boot M$ WINDOZE? I like to do everything from KNOPPIX anyway....

TIA,

[j.drake]

AJG, you're talking about your PC lab, right? IIRC, you have them networked - couldn't you just set up their BIOSes to boot Linux from a server? Or do the Klingons have control over your server too?

Of course, I still feel the best option is to have a second HD with Linux, and switch the boot order to boot the Linux drive first, but I realize that a bunch of second HDs for a classroom of lab computers may not be feasible, to say the least. OTOH, I do suppose that the mere threat of you doing so might get your TS folks to work with you. :twisted: MAhahahaha!

[Leomania]

The second hard drive option is great, but not feasible in a laptop of course.

I've set up Knoppix using the technique described earlier in this thread and it works fine. However, I wonder if it's possible to just point to the partition where LILO stored the boot sector in boot.ini instead of having to use the "dd" trick; upgrading the kernel is a pain in the backside because of this.

My guess is that if this worked everyone would already be doing it, but I've never seen the reason why stated.

Thanks,

- Leo

[alert5]

"OK, all this grub, gag and XP bootloader stuff is great. But is there anyway to accomplish this, ie: dual booting without boot floppy or lilo in mbr, that doesn't involve the "Evil OS"?"

Single HD. GAG installed on HDA1. Lilo installed on root (hda3) not in the MBR! hda2 is a large FAT32 and hda4 is Linux swap. Did not need a boot floppy or mess with "boot.ini" or XP bootloader.

GAG offers Boot floppy as pick 1, WinXP as pick 2 and Linux as pick 3. When 3 is selected Lilo offers Linux or WinNT or VFAT with Linux as default. Rock solid.

I'm sold on GAG.

[A. Jorge Garcia]

alert5: So you mean to tell me that you installed all this using KNOPPIX only - not M$ WINDOZE, right?

TIA,

[alert5]

Lets see how to keep from overcomplicating the process. In my case all I installed was GAG from floppy. Once installed GAG handles the initial choice of OS to boot.

1. Initially my PC was a WinXP box with one 30 GB partition formatted as an NTFS volume.
2. I used Knoppix from CD boot to non-destructively resize the NTFS volume using the "ntfsresize" routine.
3. When finished with creating primary partitions, I had a bootable WinXP PC with XP in a 5 GB hda1, an empty 12 GB FAT32 hda2, an empty 10 GB Linux ext3 hda3 and the remaining hda4 set a a Linux swap file.
4. I downloaded and installed GAG. GAG recognized the XP, FAT and Linux partitions. Of course at this point I had only one bootable OS (WinXP). You really can feel free to install GAG at any time and it will prompt you to name your boot volumes without messing up the MBR.
5. I booted Knoppix from CD and did a hard disk install and made sure to pick the Lilo install to the Linux root not the MBR.
6. Now when the HD boot occurred, I just ran the GAG setup to name my bootable OSes. It really could not be easier.
7. If I press the 2 key XP boots. If I press the 3 key Knoppix boots. When Knoppix boots, Lilo recognizes the XP and FAT partitions as potential boot options and you can see this in your lilo configuration file.

GAG is quite stable. I could easily install Win98 for example onto the hda2 FAT volume and create a boot pick for Win98 as well. GAG will support up to 9 different OSes.

Hope this helps.

[A. Jorge Garcia]

OK, I'm going to have to break-down and read the gag dox. Just one more question, where is gag installed exactly?

EDIT: OK, I was just at gag.sf.net and it says it installs itself on the first track of the primary boot drive. How's this different from lilo in the mbr???

TIA,

[A. Jorge Garcia]

Oh well, I don't see the benefit of using gag over lilo as both are installed to the mbr, right?

Yes, the big bad Klingons from the tech dept don't want me fiddling with the XP partition....

Anyway, I used knoppix-installer and installed the knoppix (not debian) server as I couldn't print from debian (remember the whales?) with lilo in the mbr. Now I can use my printers but I don't get a login screen. Is there a way to get a login screen for the users I create on this server? If not, what about security? This knoppix server boots to a knoppix user that can mount/unmount drives, make them ro/rw, delete them.... This is not very secure, is it?

Also, in lilo.conf, how do I change the boot order? On the server, I want to boot to linux, but on the user's PCs I need to boot to XP by default.

TIA,

[paul_nl]

Hello,

Don't know if this helps, but here goes.
I think you gave up on GAG a little too soon, because it offers solutions for many of your problems


Oh well, I don't see the benefit of using gag over lilo as both are installed to the mbr, right?

Not necessarily. GAG kan be installed onto floppy, not touching the mbr of any of your harddisks at all.
If you would do that, then win xp (or win nt, or whatever os is installed on that first harddisk partition) would automatically start as if there is no linux on the machine at all, as long as you don't use the GAG floppy at start up.

To boot into linux, you boot from floppy, choose the appropriate key, and off you go.
There's really nothing to it, not difficult to install at all. I must admit I skipped most of the docs, as all I could possibly mess up was a floppy, but it worked flawlessly the first time I tried.
After creating the floppy (see the readme with the downloaded file after unzipping for how to do that), just boot from that floppy, tell GAG in just a few steps where and what your os's are (read the "in program help" for how to configure, but there's really nothing to it, save changes to floppy (the same one), and off you go. You'll be all set in under 5 minutes.
Just repeat with another floppy to be on the safe side and have a reserve (although you can always make such a reserve later from within windows as well, if you keep the downloaded GAG files (another safety risk)
Now booting from that same floppy will offer you the choices you defined.


Yes, the big bad Klingons from the tech dept don't want me fiddling with the XP partition....

And as may be clear now, when using GAG from a floppy you won't touch the mbr of your windows partition at all.


Anyway, I used knoppix-installer and installed the knoppix (not debian) server as I couldn't print from debian (remember the whales?) with lilo in the mbr. Now I can use my printers but I don't get a login screen. Is there a way to get a login screen for the users I create on this server? If not, what about security? This knoppix server boots to a knoppix user that can mount/unmount drives, make them ro/rw, delete them.... This is not very secure, is it?

No it's not. If Linux will be accessed by different users you definitely need to setup different users, with rights according to capabilities/competence.
But setting up new users in knoppix without "root" rights isn't hard at all.
I'm sorry, I have no idea why you lost the logonscreen, and why there would be a connection with printer services.


Also, in lilo.conf, how do I change the boot order? On the server, I want to boot to linux, but on the user's PCs I need to boot to XP by default.
TIA,

When using GAG from floppy, you don't need to. And you can set the default delay in lilo to zero if you want. (just make sure you install lilo in the bootsector of the partition where you installed linux).
Windows will be started automatically when not using a floppy, as there is nothing in the mbr to point to anything else.
You can even prevent unauthorized use of a GAG floppy, you can give each os in the GAG menu a separate password.
Windows cannot read linux formatted partitions anyway, so your linux configuration is protected against tampering from within windows anyway.
The only remaining danger would be someone fiddling around with a tool like Partion Magic ("ban" such software, or password protect as well)

Last hint, read the readme file in the [src] directory of the downloaded GAG files (all you really need is the info on how to make the initial floppy), other readme's are a little garbled. Don't get upset by the language quality, the software is excellent :-)

So, if you can overcome the feeling of "being thrown back to the computer dark ages" by having to use a floppy (it starts up in just a few seconds, and after making your choice from the menu leads you on in less then a second) then GAG can probably solve some of your questions.

kind regards,
Paul V

[j.drake]

AJG, are you willing to consider an alternative approach? Bear in mind that I know bugger all about Linux networking, so this may not be feasible.

IIRC, we're talking about a bunch of networked Dells. If they are anything like the Dell I'm using at work, the initial boot splash screen (the one with the word DELL), lists in the top right corner that you can press F2 for setup and F12 for a boot menu. What if you shoehorned into your network a fileserver that YOU control (maybe a pawnshop special), to act primarily as a Linux bootserver, and secondarily as shared storage for Linux? Then, set your workstation BIOSes to boot in the normal way by default (floppy -> CD -> HD), so that XP loads by default. BUT, if you want to boot Linux, your students push F12 at the splash screen, and cursor down to the boot from internal NIC option., to boot Linux from your server.

I realize that I don't have the how-to answers on this, or the experience, but maybe someone else does, and if you could make this work, you'd have a not-so-poor-man's boot loader that does NOTHING AT ALL to your XP partition, thereby keeping the Klingons at bay. Plus, you'd have some network storage for Linux stuff.

[A. Jorge Garcia]

paul: Thanx for your thoughtful comments! Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear as I already have boot floppies up the kazoo! I'm trying to set up my LAN without boot floppies - not even gag floppies....

Thanx again!

[A. Jorge Garcia]

j.drake: OOO, I like your thinking. This is what I wanted anyway. I don't need my students to boot locally. I was going to try to have xdm (xserver) access the server from each user's PC so they login directly to the server remotely (did that make sense?). Anyway, your idea sounds interesting - I wouldn't even have to knx-hdinstall on the students PCs, right! That saves me work....

Regards,

[j.drake]

I don't need my students to boot locally anyway.

Well, if that's true, then perhaps you set up the default boot order in each workstation's BIOS to be floppy -> CD -> NIC -> HDD, and use the F12 on the rare occasions in which you have to boot to XP.

[j.drake]

I wouldn't even have to knx-hdinstall on the students PCs, right! That saves me work....

Well, that's kind of what *nix was designed for, IIRC.

Actually, though, you could still repartition the individual HDs, and install Linux locally if you ran into performance issues hanging everyone off a common server. Essentially, it would still be a poor man's install, with the server substituting for the floppy disk. Also, installing locally would carry some other advantages, such as giving you the option of teaching your students about configuration and administration options without putting your entire network at risk, or giving you the capability to still limp along with the remaining machines if someone hoses one of the configurations (not that a precocious student would ever attempt such a thing, of course :wink: ) IOW, what you lose in time by installing locally may be offset by better performance, more teaching options, and greater security and reliability. OTOH, there's the time issue, plus the work of keeping all individual configurations identical. Either way you go, sounds like you need to impose some user limits.

I dunno. I don't know enough about running numerous clients off a Linux server to evaluate the options. You may be right that it would be better not to install locally. Is enough of the OS held in RAM to make its location unimportant from a performance standpoint? Maybe someone else here knows the answer. Also, I'm not all that clear on what you're trying to acheive.

[A. Jorge Garcia]

j.drake:

Well, several years ago, pre KNOPPIX, I had an hdinstall of Slackware 3.5 running just this way. IE: when my kids booted their linux boxes, their X windows were set-up as clients of the X-server on a remote machine. So they would get the log-in screen from the server and not really use anything local after boot-up asside from intranet networking and printing (no internet access in class in those days).

Now this was in the days of Pentium MMX 166Mhz and KDE 1.0! In those days, I needed one server for every 4 students or network performance was way too slow. That was ok as we didn't need a dedicated server (a student could be logged-in "remotely" from the same PC). So I had 4 X-clients to every X-server and I ran 6 such servers for a class of 24 students.

So, in the olden days I used an x-client/server paradigm to accomplish what I need. Now its xdm or kdm that I need to look into to accomplish this same task, right?

TIA,

[A. Jorge Garcia]

I don't need my students to boot locally anyway.

Well, if that's true, then perhaps you set up the default boot order in each workstation's BIOS to be floppy -> CD -> NIC -> HDD, and use the F12 on the rare occasions in which you have to boot to XP.

Well, unfortunately, the students PCs have to boot to XP a lot (not in my class - over my dead body). So I need those to boot XP by default but have a way for my students to reboot into linux. I'll be leaving the server running Linux (Debian or Knoppix?) 24x7. Maybe I can figure out how to give my students remote access from home too!

BTW, on my Dell Optiplex GX270s I get the F2 and F12 option you mention. Of course I need the supervisor password for F2 (changing BIOS settings) so forget that. However, the F12 option doesn't seem to have anything for booting remotely....?

Anyway, I'm still just experimenting here. There's nothing urgent about this as my students have been using the "poor man's dual boot" and "fast dosboot floppy" for almost 2 years. So I set them up that way for now in my new lab until I can figure out how to do this a bit more fancy (ie: no boot disks, no disks for saving work, no CDs - just a native linux network).

Regards,

[j.drake]

However, the F12 option doesn't seem to have anything for booting remotely....?

Maybe you need the F2 to set up booting from NIC as an option. It's in my list of boot options in BIOS. All of the boot options which are available to me in F2 are available to me in F12.

Alas, if you can't get into BIOS, there's not much you can do with my idea. Still, depending upon how adventurous you are, these are still PCs, so I can't understand why you wouldn't be able to get into BIOS before the OS and netwoking stuff loads - what happens if you disco the ethernet cable before you restart, and then poke the F2 at the splash screen?? Is this a motherboard password? If so, http://docs.us.dell.com/docs/systems/opgx270/en/ug/advfeat.htm#1128421 :wink:

[j.drake]

AJG, check out the PXE option from the setup section of the GX 270 System Users Guide:

http://docs.us.dell.com/docs/systems/opgx270/en/ug/advfeat.htm#1128164

It's about 3 screens down in the boot sequence options.

Note also a little further down that there's a boot from USB option, which might be interesting

[A. Jorge Garcia]

OK, I'm going have to raise hell at work and beat up some Klingons for that BIOS password and play with PXE. I'm sick of trying to work around all their security!!!!

Take a look at:
http://www.linux-mag.com/2002-10/netbooting_01.html

Regards,

[A. Jorge Garcia]

OK, that linuxmag article makes this process seem way too complex. I'm going back to x-clients and x-servers....

What about ClusterKnoppix. It implements LTS, right?

Regards,

[j.drake]

OK, I'm going have to raise hell at work and beat up some Klingons for that BIOS password and play with PXE. I'm sick trying to work around all their security!!!!

MAMA MIA!!! That sounds like just the ticket!!!

ClarkConnect has a Linux-based package (based on RedHat 9) that includes a DHCP server, that's a free download for non-commercial use.

http://www.clarkconnect.com/info/index.html

JD

[A. Jorge Garcia]

AJG, you're talking about your PC lab, right? IIRC, you have them networked - couldn't you just set up their BIOSes to boot Linux from a server? Or do the Klingons have control over your server too?

I tried to do this recently, j.drake, but the knoppix terminal server won't work off the hdinstalled server! I did beat the klingons senseless afterall to get the BIOS password and setup PXE (using the Dell F12 boot option). Poor klingons, I hurt them for nothing....

Regards,

[A. Jorge Garcia]

>>
You can even prevent unauthorized use of a GAG floppy, you can give each os in the GAG menu a separate password.
<<

Paul, I just used lilo in the mbr without any bad side effects for once. Anyway, I'm wondering if there's a way to password protect the linux boot option in lilo? In other words, my client PCs need to boot the WimXP partition by default from hda2. My students would have to choose linux from hda5 at boot-up from the lilo menu. Can that option be password protected as you suggest in gag?

To all: I ask this as I'm thinking of using knoppix-installer to install my clients as knoppix servers. The problem with that is that a user would get root access this way simply by rebooting the machine. If said user had malicious intent.... Now, I'm not concerned with my students doing this, but the lab is used in WimXP by some other somewhat unsavory students....

BTW, the reason I'd like knoppix servers for the client is that my users can then setup printers easily. My debian servers have a problem printing (whales...). So I'll have them boot to knoppix, do their work, print as needed and then just save (backup) their work via ftp to the single debian server where each student has his/her own account and /home dir.

I'm going to try this to finally have no boot disks, data disks or CDs in class anymore. When I started using KNOPPIX in class about a year ago, I had all 3 disks for each student. Then I switched to the poor man's dual boot and got rid of the CDs. Then I switched to the FastDOSBootFloppies and got rid of the data disks as there was room on this new boot disk for saving data. Now I'm using knoppix-installer to get rid of boot disks too! BTW, I can't get ssh or X -query to work right so I'm thinking ftp is my best bet.

TIA,

[j.drake]

AJ, to network boot using PXE, according to your LinuxWorld article, sounds like you need a DHCP server and TFTP, for the most part.

See if these liinks help (IOW, I don't know what the H I'm talking about, but here's some sh*t I got off of Google).

http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3998&highlight=
http://homepage.hispeed.ch/py430/knoppix/knx-netboot.html
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2698&view=next

Oh, and perhaps most promising, http://www.tprthai.net/knoppix.htm , which had the following to say:


Terminal Server

One of the recent enhancements to Knoppix is a feature that allows it to operate as a "terminal server". This will allow "thin clients" (such as diskless workstations and/or workstations that can boot from their network card) to boot from the same copy of Knoppix that is already running.

To turn on this feature, go to: Knoppix > Services > Start Knoppix Terminal Server. This will install DHCP, TFTP, and NFS servers for you and configure them according to settings that you will be prompted for. These include network card settings (if it's not already set up), DHCP IP ranges, client side NIC drivers to support, whether to deny remote root access, IP masquerading, DNS caching, proxy servers, and command line options to be sent to the clients when they remote boot Knoppix.

Once the terminal server has been activated, all you need to do is boot from a computer that has Intel's PXE boot feature (make sure PXE is the first boot priority in the CMOS settings) or from an Etherboot type boot floppy. For more information on how to create such floppies, visit Marty Connors' Rom-O-Matic website at http://www.rom-o-matic.net.

Oh, and in case you're wondering, it takes 1:45+ minutes to network boot (as opposed to 3+ minutes for a CD boot). Not bad.

Then, there's: http://lists.ethernal.org/cantlug-0212/msg00457.html , which I don't have a clue in the world of understanding, but maybe you will. :D

I think you're going in the right direction with the boot from server stuff - I'm just betting that there's a command syntax glitch somewhere, but WTH do I know?

[A. Jorge Garcia]

To turn on this feature, go to: Knoppix > Services > Start Knoppix Terminal Server. This will install DHCP, TFTP, and NFS servers for you and configure them according to settings that you will be prompted for. These include network card settings (if it's not already set up), DHCP IP ranges, client side NIC drivers to support, whether to deny remote root access, IP masquerading, DNS caching, proxy servers, and command line options to be sent to the clients when they remote boot Knoppix.

j.drake: As usual, you're right on the money! This is exactly what I was trying to do. However, I was also trying to get into a fully hdinstalled lab. Unfortunately, when hdinstalled, you loose the knoppix scripts that enable these terminal services.

Although, it is tempting to use this instead of a lab full of poor man's dual boots! I could just leave one PC booted as poor man's or via live CD, leave terminal services running and then just have the students use PXE to boot-up their local machines. All you'd need is one CD in any PC on the LAN and you've got a knoppix network! My kids could still use ftp to save their work on one hdinstalled server. Just one CD and one hdinstall and 25 students need 0 disks! And to upgrade to a new knoppix lab, just burn one new CD. This definitely has potential! If I had known this earlier this school year when I was setting up my new lab, I wouldn't have done 25 poor man installs, not to mention all the knoppix-installers I'm in the process of doing....

MMM, sounds yummy!

BTW, does ClusterKnoppix do this by default?

Regards,

[A. Jorge Garcia]

OK, I couldn't get PXE to recognize the Knoppix Terminal Server....

This is what I did:
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=380&start=15

Regards,

[A. Jorge Garcia]

I'm finally happy with my lab setup. But, I've got to get Knoppix Terminal Server working someday. Just think of it: whenever there's a new ISO just burn one CD and all your clients have been upgraded!!!

Regards,

[j.drake]

I'm glad it worked out for you. I can't help but believe that you're only one stupid step away from getting KTS to work - perhaps one stupid character in one stupid command line.

Oh well, just think - when you finally DO get the KTS up and running, you'll be the resident PXE/KTS guru of gurus on this forum, and perhaps the world!!

[A. Jorge Garcia]

OOO, Global Guru would suit me, don't ya think?

Thanx,

[riko]

After writing the Knoppix iso-file a few times to obtain a flawless installation disk (or the files are very fragile or my writer has had it's best time ... probably the second) :? I followed your installation script and it worked perfect. ! So Thnx a lot : i voted a profound "Yes" to the poll .

One tiny detail : formatting the floppy with mkfs.msdos resulted in an unreadable floppy under windows, instead I used a floppy formatted under Windows (FAT offcourse) which resolved the problem.

installation completed with :

Windows XP professional &
Knoppix 3.3 r.20031103

(One Physical HD , 3 Primary Partitions)

on a

Medion MD 9783 Notebook
* Intel P IV 2.00 Ghz
* Ati Mobility Radeon M6
* and a bunch of common stuff further ...

Thnx. again & CheerZ

riko.

[rage710]

im stuck on Setp 16 of the process...

whenever i type in "cp /bootsect.knx /floppy" the Konsole says "bash: cp /bootsect.knx /floppy: No such file or directory"

i already mounted the floppy...i dont understand what to do.

[jeeves]

Will this procedure work fine on my Toshiba laptop?

[bubazoo]

I think all of you are crazy.

You don't need gag, or grub for windows,

(although I'd rather use grub for LInux)

but anyways, LILO works just fine..

I have an NTFS partition on /dev/hda1
my Knoppix install at /dev/hda3
(hda2 was where grub used to be)
and Linux swap /dev/hda5

so in other words, C: drive is NTFS, the rest are ext2 Linux partitions,
and LILO works just fine for me, never had a single problem installing LILO into an NTFS partition. I just installed LILO in the MBR
thats all I did and it works like a charm.

so I think all these suggestions are bogus. these are nice alternatives
but LILO works fine in the MBR

[A. Jorge Garcia]

I think all of you are crazy. You don't need gag, or grub for windows, (although I'd rather use grub for LInux) but anyways, LILO works just fine...

Hear-ye, Hear-ye, I'll second that motion!

Regards,

[garyng]

I think all of you are crazy.

You don't need gag, or grub for windows,

(although I'd rather use grub for LInux)

but anyways, LILO works just fine..

I have an NTFS partition on /dev/hda1
my Knoppix install at /dev/hda3
(hda2 was where grub used to be)
and Linux swap /dev/hda5

so in other words, C: drive is NTFS, the rest are ext2 Linux partitions,
and LILO works just fine for me, never had a single problem installing LILO into an NTFS partition. I just installed LILO in the MBR
thats all I did and it works like a charm.

so I think all these suggestions are bogus. these are nice alternatives
but LILO works fine in the MBR

How do you solve the problem of one HD, one partition which happens to be NTFS ? Can LILO still fit ? How about I don't have a CD burner so I cannot have a running linux to run lilo ?

BTW, there is no such thing as GRUB for windows. It is only a GRUB installer for window :-)

[bubazoo]

[quote=jduff]1.) Partition with qtparted
2.) Install Knoppix but leave out that lilo thing
3.) Install GAG
4.) Drink beer



how do you install Knoppix without the lilo thing?
in the knoppix-install there IS NO way to install without the lilo thing

[bubazoo]

I think all of you are crazy. You don't need gag, or grub for windows, (although I'd rather use grub for LInux) but anyways, LILO works just fine...

Hear-ye, Hear-ye, I'll second that motion!

Regards,

yeah.. didn't you guys know LILO is being phased out?
they don't make it anymoore.. there was a big debate about this on the Debian newsgroups, you guys didn't hear about that????
I am suprised completely.. LILO is history. was in all the newsgroups guys. like I said, knoppix should come with grub instead of lilo

right now I'm experimenting how to pass the right kernel parameters to a knoppix partition to make it boot with grub. right now its only working with redhat and can't figure out why its not working with a knoppix install.

[odinriko]

Is there any way to install knoppix without a floppy drive? I have a burner, but would rather not waste a cd on a 1.4 meg file...

[design1]

It took several tries but it worked... the instructions in German didn't help a bit since I "no sprachten se Deutch. "

So now that I have it installed tell me, someone, how do I get it to speak English to me? As root it is in English. When I use adduser and log in as myself (design1) the Koppix logo - as opposed to Debian - appears but it talks to me in German and even though I change the icon on the task bar to US it is still German.

Another question: how do I see my WIN 2000 (FAT32) drive. It was automatic in Knoppix from the CD. Seeems as though some of the groovy stuff I really liked aobut the CD version is missing or is it that I just haven't found some of it yet.

Jack

[mgtkrt]

The expected system config you state is exactly what I am using . . . XP on C:, and D empty.

I followed your suggestions/instructions to the letter. Everything went smoothly and turned out as you stated.

My C: is hda1 under Knoppix, which I understand. D: under Knoppix is hdc1, which I don't understand.

C:/hda1 is the primary hdd and has a dvd drive as a slave. D:/hdc1 is the master on the secondary IDE connector, with a CD-R/RW as a slave.

I appreciate the instructions/suggestions and your efforts. Well done!!!


Ok, I just confirmed that this procedure works. Tried it on TWO PC's. One XP, the other 2000.

This procedure will install a 'true' dual-boot of Knoppix. Not poor-man's install, REAL dual-boot. Plus, with the help of some free tools, you can do it without damage to your data.... Here it goes...

(Expected System Configuration, modify if needed): 2 physical Hard disks. C:\ drive is NTFS with Win NT/2k/XP installed. D:\ drive is empty.


(1) MOST IMPORTANT: Make backups of all your important data. Imagine that all your data is gone. Think about what you need to backup. Although this procedure shouldn't cause any data loss, when you're doing something of this magnitude (messing with partitions and installing new OS), you should backup. Not to mention that you should REGULARLY backup!!

(2) Create an 'ERD' (Emergency Repair Disk). This can restore your MBR in case you really goof! The process depends on your OS:
(2a) Windows NT 4: Run 'RDISK.exe'.
(2b) Win 2000 and XP: Start the Windows Backup tool, then choose 'Emergency Repair Disk'. XP/2k users have the Recovery Console and FIXMBR, plus XP users have a 'repair install' mode, so an ERD isn't too necessary for them.

(3) Boot the Knoppix CD.

(4) Start a Terminal session.

(5) Type in sudo knx-hdinstall (yes, use this older install script. From my experience, it's more stable/reliable.)

(6) Next, partition your /dev/hdb. I'm no Linux partition expert, so I just make a 300MB swap partition and use the remaining space for a Linux partition.

(7) The steps from here to after files copy should be self-explanatory.

(8) Once you get to the prompt 'Install LILO into MBR?', make sure you answer NO. Failure to do so could mean that your Windows boot partition will be removed, and you'll have to use your ERB/ Recovery Console.

(9) When prompted to make a boot floppy, make sure you make a boot floppy!. It's REQUIRED in a later step.

(10) Once Knoppix setup is done, remove the floppy and reboot. Make sure Windows still works. After doing so, pat yourself on the back... the hardest part is over!!

(11) Next, start up your computer from the boot floppy. It should load the copy of Knoppix that you just installed. If this works, then pat yourself on the back again! You're almost done!

(12) Once Knoppix is running, get to a console/terminal again. Make sure your boot floppy is still inserted!

(13) Issue the command dd if=/dev/hdx# of=/bootsect.knx bs=512 count=1. This will copy the Linux bootsector to a file. Replace hdx# with your installation partition (like hdb2)

(14) Now, insert a blank floppy into your floppy drive. Issue the command mkfs.msdos /dev/fd0. This will format the floppy to a Windows/FAT12 filesystem.

(15) Issue mount /dev/fd0

(16) Now, copy that bootsector image! cp /bootsect.knx /floppy

(17) Take the floppy out. Reboot into Windows.

(18) Copy your bootsect.knx into C:\.

(19) Start a MS-DOS prompt. Type in the following: (each newline = new command)

c:
cd \
attrib -h -r -s boot.ini
copy boot.ini boot.old
notepad boot.ini

(20) Notepad will start, with Boot.ini loaded. Edit the first line, 'Timeout=30'. Change it to 'Timeout=5'. This changes your boot selection timeout to 5 seconds, instead of 30.

(21) At the very end of the file, add C:\bootsect.knx = "Knoppix"

(22) Save the file. Get back to that command prompt. Issue attrib +h +r +s boot.ini.

(23) Reboot. Now, you should have two options: your previous Windows OS and Knoppix. Done!

[garyng]

Is there any way to install knoppix without a floppy drive? I have a burner, but would rather not waste a cd on a 1.4 meg file...

Yes, there are multiple ways, depending on your system configuration. I have a JVC sub-notebook which is legacy free and no CD-ROM/DVD and I have successfully installed(poorman's) knoppix on it. It is done with my little w32grub utility. But can also be done through a USB CF reader acting as the boot device.

[Paradox]

:?: So, quite a long time ago, I used this procedure to get my desktop dual-booting, and it's worked like a charm.

However, it's now time to compile a new kernel (which I've never done before, but I think i'm ready for).

From the stuff online I've read, it seems like a new kernel (or it's configuration utilities) might change LILO. Since my LILO is in a non-standard location (because of this installation), will I have problems upgrading my kernel? Will it try to install LILO into the first hard-drive's MBR?

Thank you in advance for any help.

[Paradox]

*bump*

Does anyone have a quick answer for my question above? Thank you in advance.

[Stephen]

:?: So, quite a long time ago, I used this procedure to get my desktop dual-booting, and it's worked like a charm.

However, it's now time to compile a new kernel (which I've never done before, but I think i'm ready for).

From the stuff online I've read, it seems like a new kernel (or it's configuration utilities) might change LILO. Since my LILO is in a non-standard location (because of this installation), will I have problems upgrading my kernel? Will it try to install LILO into the first hard-drive's MBR?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Using the make-kpkg and installing wtih dpkg -i kernel-image-?????.deb will give you the choice to install lilo with the existing lilo configuration to the boot block I have never declined the offer but if you say no then the changes will not be written to the disk and I believe you have to set up lilo yourself there may be an extra option as to where to install lilo that comes up next but as I say I never said no so I'm not sure about that. Now if you already have boot=/dev/hd?3 for instance in your lilo.conf it should install the lilo there like it always has or you could install it later if you declined during install with /sbin/lilo -v -b /dev/hd?3 to install it where you want to.

[Paradox]

Thanks for the tip, Stephen.

I used make-kpkg and installed, but told it not to interfere with lilo.

I then went into /boot and changed the symbolic links of vmlinuz and System.map to point to the newer kernel.

Next, I went into lilo.conf and modified the main OS load section to read:

default=Linux

image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.0-test9
label=Linux
initrd=/initrd.img
read-only
# restricted
# alias=1

# image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.4.22-xfs
# label=Linux
# initrd=/boot/initrd.gz
# read-only
# restricted
# alias=1 (my old kernel path is commented out below it)

I then ran lilo -P ignore (it warned me on my first run that without the -P ignore it would overwrite into the first hard drive, which is what I don't want).
However, by lilo.conf DOES have the lines boot=/dev/hdd2 and root=/dev/hdd2


In any case, I then restarted by computer. BIOS goes fine, Windows MBR still shows linux option, I choose it. Lilo comes up with the proper options.

I choose Linux. It says Loading Linux............................................. .................................................. ................................., then sayd a check was okay, and then:

The screen goes black and it stops. (Thank god for my rescue boot floppy)

Any clue what might be wrong? Bad kernel options? Misapplied Lilo?

Thanks in advance! I figure if I can get this working, I can post up a nice easy HOW-TO for people who followed this procedure to install their Linux.

[Stephen]

Thanks for the tip, Stephen.

I used make-kpkg and installed, but told it not to interfere with lilo.

I then went into /boot and changed the symbolic links of vmlinuz and System.map to point to the newer kernel.

Next, I went into lilo.conf and modified the main OS load section to read:

default=Linux

image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.0-test9
label=Linux
initrd=/initrd.img
read-only
# restricted
# alias=1

# image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.4.22-xfs
# label=Linux
# initrd=/boot/initrd.gz
# read-only
# restricted
# alias=1 (my old kernel path is commented out below it)

I then ran lilo -P ignore (it warned me on my first run that without the -P ignore it would overwrite into the first hard drive, which is what I don't want).
However, by lilo.conf DOES have the lines boot=/dev/hdd2 and root=/dev/hdd2

I think I must have been wrong there then Lilo must by default write to the MBR and you must have to use the -b /dev/hd?? everytime to tell it to write to the / partition you want it to use. It seems strange though because every time I install a new kernel on my second drive Lilo always complains that the /dev/hdb that is the boot is not on the first drive in the system but it is installing into the MBR of the second drive there so thats probably the difference.


In any case, I then restarted by computer. BIOS goes fine, Windows MBR still shows linux option, I choose it. Lilo comes up with the proper options.

I choose Linux. It says Loading Linux............................................. .................................................. ................................., then sayd a check was okay, and then:

The screen goes black and it stops. (Thank god for my rescue boot floppy)

Any clue what might be wrong? Bad kernel options? Misapplied Lilo?

Thanks in advance! I figure if I can get this working, I can post up a nice easy HOW-TO for people who followed this procedure to install their Linux.

That looks like you left out the support or choose both options for the framebuffer when you get to the lilo boot screen you should be able to start typing in Linux vga=normal to boot with the framebuffer turned off. If you want to look at my config for test9 you can see it here (http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/scormier) IIRC it is the CONFIG_FB_VGA16 or something like that, that you want not set and you have to have the console fonts compiled into the kernel for it to work. BTW there is no need to comment out a working kernel in the lilo.conf just name it LinuxOld and you will still have the opportunity to boot the old working kernel.

[BalakrishM]

This post is my first and regarding
"Ok, I just confirmed that this procedure works. Tried it on TWO PC's. One XP, the other 2000......."

I am having 2 harddisks on 2 different IDE channels.
On primary IDE channel there is already HDDA with XP and 2K Multiboot on 2 parititions. On secondary IDE channel there is HDDB with 3 partitions of which 2 have a lot of data and one free to be split for ext3 and swap (Knoppix Partition say)

Now I dont want LILO and GRUB.
I want to go with "XP Bootloader and add C:\bootsect.knx = "Knoppix" " idea.

Now does this method really work if NTDLR and Knoppix installation are on "different IDE channels" and "different HDDs" and "different parititions"

If it wont work I would rather try if my BIOS lets me switch which IDE to boot from (without boot.ini changes ofcourse)..... but that is a pain everytime to press DEL / F2 !!!

I am anyway gonna go till "Knoppix Installation on my Knoppix Partition" and wait till I find if doing the copy/boot.ini stuff will not SURPRSIE me with huge data loss.

Is there someone who has already tried such a combination ?

Gruss
Bala

[joe_bfstplk]

Hi all-
Thanks for the great step-by-step tutorial on this. With a few tweeks, it got me up and running! You folks rock! I've quoted jdong's method and noted my tweeks to the process.

FWIW, I have three drives on my machine:

hd0 is for Win2k, split into an OS partition and a data/apps partition, both set up with FAT32

hd1 is a data storage drive with two large partitions formatted FAT32, but also holds a pair of 2G partitions for Win2k's (also FAT32) and Linux's swap files (formatted as Linux swap--go figure...javascript:emoticon(':wink:'))

hd2 is the Linux drive, with three partitions, one formatted ext3 for /, one that's currently not formatted, but will be formatted ext3 for /home when I'm done setting this up, and one 750M slice formatted FAT32 and named /CD_PREP for prepping CDs, which I will make visible to both Win2k and Linux.

I'm installing in place of RH9, but repartitioned to use no /boot partition per the Knoppix setup, as I am enough of a noobie at this to not want to mess with the stock Knoppix partitioning for the boot/OS areas. I will be pointing Knoppix at the /home, though, as I want to be able to keep that separate from the boot/OS partition....

This worked for me, but may not be advisable for those working with NTFS on their Windows partition. I used FAT32 because, when I installed Windows and RH Linux last year, there was an issue over whether Linux could read and write NTFS. If you feel comfortable with the recent NTFS rw ability that has been mentioned lately on some sites, try it. I'd back up that NTFS partition first, if it were me, though.... I plan to reformat my /CD_PREP partition as NTFS and experiment there first, since it's not critical and won't crash the Win2k OS.

Anywho, here goes:


Ok, I just confirmed that this procedure works. Tried it on TWO PC's. One XP, the other 2000.

This procedure will install a 'true' dual-boot of Knoppix. Not poor-man's install, REAL dual-boot. Plus, with the help of some free tools, you can do it without damage to your data.... Here it goes...

(Expected System Configuration, modify if needed): 2 physical Hard disks. C:\ drive is NTFS with Win NT/2k/XP installed. D:\ drive is empty.


(1) MOST IMPORTANT: Make backups of all your important data. Imagine that all your data is gone. Think about what you need to backup. Although this procedure shouldn't cause any data loss, when you're doing something of this magnitude (messing with partitions and installing new OS), you should backup. Not to mention that you should REGULARLY backup!!

(2) Create an 'ERD' (Emergency Repair Disk). This can restore your MBR in case you really goof! The process depends on your OS:
(2a) Windows NT 4: Run 'RDISK.exe'.
(2b) Win 2000 and XP: Start the Windows Backup tool, then choose 'Emergency Repair Disk'. XP/2k users have the Recovery Console and FIXMBR, plus XP users have a 'repair install' mode, so an ERD isn't too necessary for them.

(3) Boot the Knoppix CD.

(4) Start a Terminal session.

(5) Type in sudo knx-hdinstall (yes, use this older install script. From my experience, it's more stable/reliable.)

(6) Next, partition your /dev/hdb. I'm no Linux partition expert, so I just make a 300MB swap partition and use the remaining space for a Linux partition.

(7) The steps from here to after files copy should be self-explanatory.

(8) Once you get to the prompt 'Install LILO into MBR?', make sure you answer NO. Failure to do so could mean that your Windows boot partition will be removed, and you'll have to use your ERB/ Recovery Console.

(9) When prompted to make a boot floppy, make sure you make a boot floppy!. It's REQUIRED in a later step.

(10) Once Knoppix setup is done, remove the floppy and reboot. Make sure Windows still works. After doing so, pat yourself on the back... the hardest part is over!!

(11) Next, start up your computer from the boot floppy. It should load the copy of Knoppix that you just installed. If this works, then pat yourself on the back again! You're almost done!

(12) Once Knoppix is running, get to a console/terminal again. Make sure your boot floppy is still inserted!

(13) Issue the command dd if=/dev/hdx# of=/bootsect.knx bs=512 count=1. This will copy the Linux bootsector to a file. Replace hdx# with your installation partition (like hdb2)

At this point, I varied from the instructions on the second attempt to set up the bootloader....

What I did instead:
(14) Mount the C:\ drive partition in the Konqueror file browser

(15) Edit Boot.ini in KWrite as stated in (20) above.

(16) Save the file. Reboot.

(17) It should now offer Windows or Knoppix on bootup.

Thanks for the help, you saved my weekend!!! javascript:emoticon(':D')


C ya,
Dutch

[bigbadblo]

Hey... this is my first experience with Linux -- a friend gave me a Knoppix Live CD and I had an older system lying around and thought it would be slick to learn something new, so I installed it to the HD yesterday. :D

I read up on types of installation procedures, partitions, etc., and although I'm sure I didn't do it as a pro would, I figured my setup would at least allow me to cut my teeth to a degree on Linux. So I went ahead a partioned my 15gb HD, making a 500mb swap partition first, a 5gb partition to Debian/Knoppix on the HD second, and a third and final partition for my WinXP (at the moment, I'm viewing this as my life-preserver). The Linux partition is ext3, and the WinXP partition is ntfs.

-= So, just to be clear, I believe I currently have this setup: /dev/hda1 is Linux swap, /dev/hda2 is Linux install, and /dev/hda3 is my ntfs WinXP, correct? =-

Long story short, for whatever reason my WinXP part came out as "Drive G:", my CD writer and second CD drive are "Drives E & F," and I've installed Ext2IFS v0.3, so my Linux partitions show up as "C & D." Weird and a bit clumsy, but for right now it'll do. :roll:

Now, I opted to try the initial version of a dual boot as outlined by this guide, and declined any installation of LILO into the MBR. Unfortunately, at this point I can only boot Knoppix from the ERDisk created during installation as the dual boot guide, when followed to the best of my ability, leaves me with this Windows error message when I try to initialize Knoppix from the bootload screen: " ... Windows could not start because of a computer disk hardware configuration problem. Could not read from the selected boot disk. Check boot path and hardware ..." Currently, my boot.ini file has been modified with this line here; "g:\bootsect.knx = "Knoppix"", referencing my copied bootsect.knx file sitting in the root of my WinXP partition (g:\).

When checked, it reveals that the WinXP partition is set as the bootable partition ... other than that, I'm not sure what to look for, or what to change to get this to work?! Luckily, this system up to now has been unused so I don't have anything to worry about saving on the system should a full reinstall of Knoppix/WinXP be necessary.

If anyone of you fine Linux chaps could assist me, I would very much appreciate it! I'm excited to see what this world looks like from behind a different set of looking glasses (non-M$, if you take my meaning). Thanks again for being such ahelpful community to us Linux newbs! :D

Thx

BLO

[Blento]

ok thanks for all of this...
but...i have problem with this...everything worked fine untill i got to line (13)
and i got this!

root@blento:/# dd if=/dev/hd7# of=/bootsect.knx bs=512 count=1
dd: opening `/dev/hd7#': No such file or directory
root@blento:/#

I have one HD 120 GB hd,
windows parttions- C (hda1),D(hda5) and E(hda6)
linux parttions hda6, hda7 (swap), and hda8
i installed knoppix on hda6, and i didnt marked that as boot since i read somewhere
that windows only like one boot partition (C:)
i tryed to change that and to put hda7 to boot, with fdisk in linux, but i dont know did
it worked?
i tryed even this:

root@blento:/# dd of=/bootsect.knx bs=512 count=1
0+1 records in
0+1 records out
1 bytes transferred in 2.600328 seconds (0 bytes/sec)
root@blento:/#
and then i did like it said from 14 to 23...but bood of linux didnt work.
can you help me?
I mounted all partitions and its not a problem...

[Blento]

i've made typing mistakes ...hda6 is just linux parttion, not Windows,
and "bood"..is "boot" :oops:

[Howard]

I just finished installing to one HDD. (160Gb Maxtor) :D
So I've added another "YES" vote to the poll.

I have Win XP on the first partition (NTFS), a load of media files on the 2nd (NTFS) partition, both of which are about 50Gb.
I set up a linux swap (1Gb - i.e. 2x my physical RAM of 512Mb) is that right?
And the rest (about another 50Gb) is an ext3 partiton for Linux.
The procedure works OK but I was a bit worried about the lack of explanation at step (6). I guessed at the partition setup, the new ones are both logical and NOT bootable, yes I screwed up the first time and lost my NTFS partitons along with some data which I had forgotten to backup!
Doh! (Now we have NO pictures of my Grandsons Christening party - the family will probably never forgive me! :cry: ).
The next step is to either figure out how to mount an NTFS partition or to re-size the existing 2nd part. and create a FAT32 part. in order to share data between the two OS's.
Thanks for all the help in the preceding posts, if I'd read them first I wouldn't have got into so much trouble! :oops:
"H"

[Khazad]

hi,



I just installed Knoppix, now I'd like to use Grub for dualboot.
I've followed the instrucion due to garyng.
It's on my 3rd partition so its (hd0,2)

My menue.lst :

title KNOPPIX
root(hd0,2)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz
initrd /boot/initrd

When I want to boot it I recieve following error:

root(hdo,2)
Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83
Kernel /boot/vmlinuz
[Linux-bzImage, setup=0x1400, size=0xe2b6d
initrd /boot/initrd
Error 15 file not found


So I booted again from cd and looked it up.In the boot-directory I only found initrd.gz! I wasn`t able to extract it to /boot as it is readonly.

What can I do???
Please help
THX Khazad

[garyng]

hi,



I just installed Knoppix, now I'd like to use Grub for dualboot.
I've followed the instrucion due to garyng.
It's on my 3rd partition so its (hd0,2)

My menue.lst :

title KNOPPIX
root(hd0,2)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz
initrd /boot/initrd

When I want to boot it I recieve following error:

root(hdo,2)
Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83
Kernel /boot/vmlinuz
[Linux-bzImage, setup=0x1400, size=0xe2b6d
initrd /boot/initrd
Error 15 file not found


So I booted again from cd and looked it up.In the boot-directory I only found initrd.gz! I wasn`t able to extract it to /boot as it is readonly.

What can I do???
Please help
THX Khazad

change it to :

initrd /boot/initrd.gz

[matnlaci]

I am trying to do this with NT 4 on partition 1 of hard-drive 1 and Knoppix 3.3 on partition 3 of hard-drive 1. I followed instructions to a T. I can boot to NT 4 no problem. If I put in the boot disk created in step 9, I can boot to Knoppix on the hard-drive. I have the "Knoppix" option when I boot without a floppy (ie in the boot.ini), but when I choose it, I simply get a black screen with a cursor blinking in the upper left hand corner. Can anyone give me some advice on what to check?

[Howard]

Not sure what you need to do, but you could check out "xosl" (see my earlier post in the Lounge)

I think this will resolve your problem as it allows you to "swap disks" at boot time, so Windows thinks it's booting of the MBR wherever you start the boot manager from.

"H"

[OErjan]

you could use the Win2000/NT/XP bootloader.
to do that I let the nt bootloader and lilo work together for me. works well.
quick sketch what i do, write LILO to a floppy, make a "image" of the floppy-mbr put that image in C:\ edit BOOT.INI mine looks like this.


[boot loader]
timeout=2
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOW S
[operating systems]
C:\linux.ipl="LINUX"
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /fastdetect

a few more details.

1) make lilo write to floppy, have this line in lilo.conf:

boot=/dev/fd0

or give floppy as an argument to lilo

lilo -b /dev/fd0


2) make a image of the floppy-mbr: and put it in C:\

dd if=/dev/fd0 of=/mnt/C/linux.ipl bs=512 count=1


3) Modifiy c:\boot.ini -- add a line with:

C:\linux.ipl="Linux"


repeat 1) and 2) every time you run LILO.

Microsoft ntldr now believes you have yet another windows installed. happy booting
oh btw, i have several linuxes booting from that same lilo.

[yogb21]

An alternative method :

1. go to here http://www.skyjammer.com/files/knoppix

2. get the w32grub.zip and unzip it to c:\, it is already a directory tree

3. run c:\boot\grub\w32grub

4. add 'c:\boot\stage1="GRUB"' to c:\boot.ini

Now there is a GRUB boot loader in your W2K/XP system.

Install your KNOPPIX as usual but don't let it touch your boot loader.

in c:\boot\grub\menu.lst add the following(just an example)

title KNOPPIX
root (hd0,2)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz
initrd /boot/initrd

and you can boot load your KNOPPIX. For detail about GRUB, read the manual on their main site.

If you want poorman's install(FAT only), follow the instruction in the doc on this site on how to extract the big file as well as the boot.img from the ISO and follow the followin procedure

1. get memdisk from syslinux site and put in c:\boot
2. put the boot.img(from the ISO) to c:\boot
2. add the following to c:\boot\grub\menu.lst

title Poor man's KNOPPIX
root (hd0,1)
kernel /boot/memdisk
initrd /boot/boot.img

Now you can boot a poorman's KNOPPIX, this is the same as making the floppy image from the ISO, it just don' need a physical floppy for the purpose. Kudo to the authors of the programs mentioned.

The only caveat is that one needs an ISO extraction tool to get the big file in the download image. I am not sure if knoppix-customize(it can get the boot.img without problem) can do this, otherwise a commerical software(there is some shareware or limited ware like magiciso) is needed. So this is still a 'poorman's installation', not a broken man's installation(doing all these from completely free as lunch tools).

Hej
By the way what is root (hd0,1) parameter.
And i followed your method but when start grub at boot my PC boots and wont enter Knoppix Linux :-(
YogB

[chouicha]

Hi All

I've followed the instrucion from garyng.
Xp is installed on my 1st partition.

I added in my boot.ini:
c:\boot\stage1="GRUB"

My menue.lst :

title KNOPPIX
root(hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz
initrd /boot/initrd.gz

When I boot it:
I get the following menu
Window XP
GRUB

When I select "GRUB" menu. First I see "GRUB loading stag2", then the screen turn into blank. Do I need to do something else. Thanks.

Amine

[nicorelli]

In regards to jdongs dual boot protocol...

I tried the dual boot protocol. It worked... mostly.

I got past the two pats on the back, although

sudo knx-install

should be

sudo
knoppix-installer

When it was all said and done, I rebooted and got to the option of running either Windows XP -or- Knoppix... Great! So I arrowed down and hit enter, and then...

"Missing <Windows root>\system32\hal.dll" :(

I tried to repair Windows by booting from the CD and repairing files. Next thing you know, I can't login without activating Windows (which I have been successfully running for over a year)...???

Now all I have is a PC with Knoppix that can only run from a boot floppy. Any ideas?

[Markus]

The hal.dll is often due to a misconfigured C:\boot.ini . Could you post it here or just check if you made a typo in it. If your C:\ is NTFS you could use a DOS bootdisk or winCD to change the file.

[bast]

What procedure do i need to boot?

What is the best/

1. NTLDR
2. Gag MBR
3. GAG Floppy
4. LILO(i would like to use this, because i don't have to go to windows to finish the install)

[sklynn]

Can anyone point me to information about dual booting Windows 98SE and Knoppix V.3.4 ?

[squire]

i got to the install lilo part, i choose no but it installed anyway, plus, it cant write to the floppy

[doesnotcompute]

Ok, couple of questions for you guys.


(6) Next, partition your /dev/hdb. I'm no Linux partition expert, so I just make a 300MB swap partition and use the remaining space for a Linux partition.

How do I do this? Can I do it in Windows or Knoppix? Or either? What utility is recommended?


(9) When prompted to make a boot floppy, make sure you make a boot floppy!. It's REQUIRED in a later step.

So, boot disks are required. Can I use a USB stick or a boot CD instead? (I really really really hate floppies; they're archaic, unreliable and prone to errors)

[clarjon1]

Say no to the MBR? I said yes, and it works gr8! Wind0ze XP home sp2 boots fine for me.
I could've gotten lucky.

[ruymbeke]

Can anyone point me to information about dual booting Windows 98SE and Knoppix V.3.4 ?
Try grub.exe to boot the iso file from dos... cf: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11796
Cheers, Gilles