Reinstall from scratch?

[bro]

I installed the Nov 3 Knoppix, then did a hd install, and all was well.

But, I started adding packages with apt-get and managed to screw things up.

Everything on my system is now the 'unstable' version and it IS unstable!
Or at least, many things crash, and most importantly, I have no sound..
(it WAS working great at first)

So my question is: what's the simplest way to get back to an earlier state?
I've poked around the debian sites, and most people say
"there is no easy way to downgrade". One suggested a preferences
file with a priority of 1001, but that still did nothing!

Would it be wise to reinstall from knoppix? will it install over
a "newer" debian?

The system itself seems to be confused about what version
it's actually using. My apt.conf says "testing", yet everything is unstable
(except php4 which is stable !?!),
However, when I try to build from source, the
dependencies indicate that I'll be getting a woody version!
And then build-deps says " broken deps, do a -f install",
but that finds nothing to do.

Do I sound confused? well, I am!

I have separate partitions for /, /usr, and others..
Shall I just wipe them and boot from the cd to start all over again?

thanks,
- John

[turbinater]

If you're a newbie, or dont know what you're doing(or simply confused), the easiest thing to do would be backup all you're data on cd's, or a spare hard drive, then re-install knoppix.

What sound card do you have? lets say its have a soundblaster LIVE!. It uses the emu10k1 chip like all modern soundblasters. So I would add the line emu10k1 in my /etc/modules so I can hear sound.

[bro]

If you're a newbie, or dont know what you're doing(or simply confused), the easiest thing to do would be backup all you're data on cd's, or a spare hard drive, then re-install knoppix.


That's what I'm heading for.. The worst of it is I'm NOT exactly a newbie,
but my old RH 7.1 was doing fine for me until it just got too old to install
modern packages on it.. I thought I could handle apt-get and thought I was
getting the hang of it, but now nothing seems to fit together.. ;-(
Although I have learned surfing around here that Knoppix is not "testing"
but rather "unstable", so that clarifies a little. I just changed my apt.conf
and if the debian mirrors would respond, I'd be updating a bunch of stuff.



What sound card do you have? lets say its have a soundblaster LIVE!. It uses the emu10k1 chip like all modern soundblasters. So I would add the line emu10k1 in my /etc/modules so I ca, hear sound.

onboard via AC97 (on a Shuttle AK31 with Athlon Tbird 1.2Ghz)
-- but the viaxxx modules are loaded

lsmod tells me:

via82cxxx_audio 19452 1
ac97_codec 11884 0 [via82cxxx_audio]
uart401 6052 0 [via82cxxx_audio]
sound 55244 0 [via82cxxx_audio uart401]
soundcore 3428 4 [via82cxxx_audio sound ]

And the aRTs test in the Control Center sounds fine! But e.g. xmms just hangs
when I tell it to play an mp3 and I have to killall..

I read somewhere that there are problems with some libvorbis libs, but have not found the right one yet..

Otherwise, the main problem is things like the kfilemanager (used to crash, now doesn't even load) and various other K apps that all crash with problem in kdecore and libpthreads..
Here's the details (alwaysa the same)

...0x4100fbb8 in waitpid () from /lib/libpthread.so.0
#0 0x4100fbb8 in waitpid () from /lib/libpthread.so.0
#1 0x406e8c10 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libkdecore.so.4
#2 0x40647f1c in KCrash::defaultCrashHandler(int) ()
from /usr/lib/libkdecore.so.4

People have recommended compiling those libs from source, but I just keep getting in
deeper!! Wish I'd left things the way Knoppix had them.. sigh..

j.

[turbinater]

Sounds like everything is seriously screwed. If It was my machine, It would take me probably a week to work everything out.

TIP: After reinstalling, backup everything in etc. I go one further and back up every file I change, every package I install, and so on, on cd-r's every month or so.

[bro]

Sounds like everything is seriously screwed. If It was my machine, It would take me probably a week to work everything out.

TIP: After reinstalling, backup everything in etc. I go one further and back up every file I change, every package I install, and so on, on cd-r's every month or so.

Good idea! (backing up /etc) -- if the cdwriter package doesn't crash ;-(.

In the mean time, ftp.debian.org started responding, and I upgraded a ton of stuff,
(basically reinstalling KDE from scratch -- 3.1.4 -- which fixed nothing..
learned that if I turn off aRTs I get xmms back, and have reduced the problem to
that libpthread and kdecore.so.4 issue -- still pretty major.

I have tried compiling kdelibs4 from source via
dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -b
but after configuring just fine, it bombs due to a Xinerama(_pic) dependency
that I can't seem to eliminate..

Still looking for clues...

j.

[bro]

I have tried compiling kdelibs4 from source via
dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -b
but after configuring just fine, it bombs due to a Xinerama(_pic) dependency
that I can't seem to eliminate..
j.

Found a clue! (in the Debian-KDE list)
It seems kdelibs4 depends on xlibs-pic, but Knoppix furnishes a
"dummy package to satisfy dependencies in kdelibs4"
where I need a REAL one.

apt-cache shows 3 versions:
1 from Knoppix
1 for Woody
and 1 that should be for me!
But since apt-get thinks I'm up-to-date, it doesn't get it!
How do I do that?

j.

[Stephen]

I have tried compiling kdelibs4 from source via
dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -b
but after configuring just fine, it bombs due to a Xinerama(_pic) dependency
that I can't seem to eliminate..
j.

Found a clue! (in the Debian-KDE list)
It seems kdelibs4 depends on xlibs-pic, but Knoppix furnishes a
"dummy package to satisfy dependencies in kdelibs4"
where I need a REAL one.

apt-cache shows 3 versions:
1 from Knoppix
1 for Woody
and 1 that should be for me!
But since apt-get thinks I'm up-to-date, it doesn't get it!
How do I do that?

j.

For xmms you want the xmms-arts plugin that will allow you to have arts running at the same time if you want. For the mirrors I usually use the ftp.uk.debian.org or ftp.de.debian.org they seem to be the fastest I usually get 150k/sec from them which is the max of my DSL connection so probably goes faster if you are on a cable modem. It may not work but there is an xlibs-pic in experimential that is at 3.0... which looks like it could be what you need:


[11:05 AM Mon Dec 08: stephen @ ~]
>$ apt-cache policy xlibs-pic
xlibs-pic:
Installed: (none)
Candidate: 4.2.1-12.1
Version Table:
4.3.0-0pre1v4 0
1 http://ftp.debian.org ../project/experimental/main Packages
4.2.1-14 0
600 http://ftp.uk.debian.org unstable/main Packages
4.2.1-12.1 0
990 http://ftp.uk.debian.org testing/main Packages
4.1.0-16woody1 0
500 http://security.debian.org stable/updates/main Packages
500 http://ftp.uk.debian.org stable/main Packages
[11:05 AM Mon Dec 08: stephen @ ~]
>$ apt-cache policy xmms-arts
xmms-arts:
Installed: 0.5-2
Candidate: 0.5-2
Version Table:
*** 0.5-2 0
990 http://ftp.uk.debian.org testing/main Packages
600 http://ftp.uk.debian.org unstable/main Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status


If you want to try it you will need this line in your sources.list:


## Experimential needed for XFree86 4.3 for the KDE CVS
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian ../project/experimental main contrib non-free


You will need this line eventually if you ever plan on upgrading the Xserver as the packages have moved from the locations that Knoppix uses to the Debian archive. To install you would have to use apt-get -s install -t experimential xlibs-pic after having added the line to the sources.list and dselect update to update both dselect and apt databases remove the -s to actually install if everything looks good.

But you do not need xlibs-pic to get the kdelibs4 installed as you can see above I do not have it installed you may be missing some other program/library to check:


[11:08 AM Mon Dec 08: stephen @ ~]
>$ COLUMNS=125 dpkg -l | grep 3.1.[34]
ii ark 3.1.4-1 KDE archiving tool
ii gawk 3.1.3-2 GNU awk, a pattern scanning and processing language
ii kaddressbook 3.1.4-1 KDE NG addressbook application
ii kappfinder 3.1.3-1 KDE Application Finder
ii kate 3.1.3-1 KDE Advanced Text Editor
ii kcontrol 3.1.3-1 KDE Control Center
ii kdeartwork-theme-desktop 3.1.4-1 Dummy upgrade package for official KDE desktop themes
ii kdeartwork-theme-icon 3.1.4-1 icon themes released with KDE
ii kdebase 3.1.3-1 KDE Base metapackage
ii kdebase-bin 3.1.3-1 KDE Base (binaries)
ii kdebase-data 3.1.3-1 KDE Base (shared data)
ii kdebase-kio-plugins 3.1.3-1 KDE I/O Slaves
ii kdelibs-bin 3.1.4-3 KDE core binaries
ii kdelibs-data 3.1.4-3 KDE core shared data
ii kdelibs4 3.1.4-3 KDE core libraries
ii kdepim-libs 3.1.4-1 KDE PIM libraries
ii kdeprint 3.1.3-1 KDE Print
ii kdesktop 3.1.3-1 KDE Desktop
ii kdewallpapers 3.1.4-1 wallpapers released with KDE
ii kdm 3.1.3-1 KDE Display Manager
ii kfind 3.1.3-1 KDE File Find Utility
ii kget 3.1.4-1 KDE Download Manager
ii kghostview 3.1.4-1 PostScript viewer for KDE
ii khelpcenter 3.1.3-1 KDE Help Center
ii kicker 3.1.3-1 KDE Desktop Panel
ii klipper 3.1.3-1 KDE Clipboard
ii kmail 3.1.4-1 KDE Email client
ii kmenuedit 3.1.3-1 KDE Menu Editor
ii kompare 3.1.4-2 a KDE GUI for viewing differences between files
ii konqueror 3.1.3-1 KDE's advanced File Manager, Web Browser and Document Viewer
ii konqueror-nsplugins 3.1.3-1 Netscape plugin support for Konqueror
ii konsole 3.1.3-1 KDE X terminal emulator
ii kpager 3.1.3-1 KDE Desktop Pager
ii kpersonalizer 3.1.3-1 KDE Personalizer
ii ksmserver 3.1.3-1 KDE Session Manager
ii ksplash 3.1.3-1 KDE Splash Screen
ii ksysguard 3.1.3-1 KDE System Guard
ii ksysguardd 3.1.3-1 KDE System Guard Daemon
ii ktip 3.1.3-1 Kandalf's Useful Tips
ii kuickshow 3.1.4-1 KDE image/slideshow viewer
ii kview 3.1.4-1 KDE simple image viewer/converter
ii kwin 3.1.3-1 KDE Window Manager
ii libkdenetwork2 3.1.4-1 KDE Network (common libraries)
ii libkonq4 3.1.3-1 Core libraries for KDE's file manager
ii libmimelib1 3.1.4-1 KDE network mime library
ii xfonts-konsole 3.1.3-1 Fonts used by the KDE Konsole


If you run into the libsensors-1debian1 bug you can get the file here (http://wiki.debian.net/index.cgi?DebianKDE).

[garyng]

There is one thing that may help for any future linux installation when one likes to play around(install package etc.), use the loopback file system as the rootfs and put other user stuff(/home etc.) on either another loopback file system or a seperate partition(say for performance or reliability purpose).

In this way, one can easily have a snapshot of a running 'system' and the fallback is much easier. In fact, multiple system can be kept this way. I have a number of these big files around, one for the base debian(text only, about 150M), one for a base X enabled(300M) and another with KDE(500M) and can boot from any of them through the boot loader.

This may not be good for server oriented system though as loopback is usually slower and journal based file system may not be of any use(say I have a ext3 living on FAT, even the ext3 is journal based, if the underlying FAT screwsup, everything screws up).

[bro]

Let's start over.. I've figured a few critical things out, but the main problem remains..



the main problem is things like the kfilemanager (used to crash, now doesn't even load) and various other K apps that all crash with problem in kdecore and libpthreads..
Here's the details (alwaysa the same)

...0x4100fbb8 in waitpid () from /lib/libpthread.so.0
#0 0x4100fbb8 in waitpid () from /lib/libpthread.so.0
#1 0x406e8c10 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libkdecore.so.4
#2 0x40647f1c in KCrash::defaultCrashHandler(int) ()
from /usr/lib/libkdecore.so.4


This is what I want to fix!
Recompiling kdelibs was a shot in the dark, and got me into more trouble
with Xinerama and maybe xlibs-pic. Does anyone else think recompiling
kdelibs is the solution?



I have tried compiling kdelibs4 from source via


dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -b

but after configuring just fine, it bombs due to a Xinerama(_pic) dependency
that I can't seem to eliminate..
j.
...
It seems kdelibs4 depends on xlibs-pic, but Knoppix furnishes a
"dummy package to satisfy dependencies in kdelibs4"
where I need a REAL one.

apt-cache shows 3 versions:
1 from Knoppix
1 for Woody
and 1 that should be for me!
But since apt-get thinks I'm up-to-date, it doesn't get it!
How do I do that?


I tried a downgrade for xlibs-pic, but wow what a mess!!
It wanted to remove *everything*. Well, I went ahead and let it!!
Whew! Couldn't restart KDE. Ran aptitude in a failsafe, tracked down
the broken dependencies, got everything back up -- except I was right
back where I started!!!! Sheesh!



It may not work but there is an xlibs-pic in experimential that is at 3.0... which looks like it could be what you need:


[11:05 AM Mon Dec 08: stephen @ ~]
>$ apt-cache policy xlibs-pic
xlibs-pic:
Installed: (none)
Candidate: 4.2.1-12.1
Version Table:
4.3.0-0pre1v4 0
1 http://ftp.debian.org ../project/experimental/main Packages
4.2.1-14 0
600 http://ftp.uk.debian.org unstable/main Packages


If you want to try it you will need this line in your sources.list:



## Experimential needed for XFree86 4.3 for the KDE CVS
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian ../project/experimental main contrib non-free


But you do not need xlibs-pic to get the kdelibs4 installed as you can see above I do not have it installed you may be missing some other program/library to check:


Thanks for the sources pointer.
I apparently don't need xlibs-pic to have kdelibs binaries installed.
But it seems I DO need it to compile kdelibs4...
At least I need this damned Xinerama_pic (iff ithat's where Xinerama_pic is)
So I guess I'll try the experimental one. wish me luck!

In fact, I went so far as to comment out all references to Xinerama(_pic)
in the configure and aclocal.m4 and acinclude.m4 files!
But is STILL crashes before it finishes compiling and complains about Xinerama_pic!
I'm goin nuts here!

Again, I don't really *want* to recompile from source,
I just want these KDE apps to stop crashing




If you run into the libsensors-1debian1 bug you can get the file here (http://wiki.debian.net/index.cgi?DebianKDE).

I did run into that, got the sensors lib and got past it.. ooof!

[bro]

Wellllll...... made some progress..... but no cigar

I managed to "downgrade" xlibs-pic and xlibs-dev to the
experimental 4.3.0-pre1v4 version (over Knoppix's 4.3.1 dummy).

Tried to compile kdelibs again, got past the Xinerama_pic problem
(so it WAS in there..) and a whole lot further.. 10 or 15 minutes further
but witih LOADS of WARNINGS.

Then it finally exited with this:
libtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/X11R6/lib/libXrender.la'
and indeed there is no such .la.. there's a .so and a .a, but no .la

Any advice?? I'm really in over my head here..

[Markus]

Hi,
If you look in: file:/usr/share/doc/libxrender-dev/changelog.Debian
you'll see among other things:


* Under duress, ship a symlink from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXrender.la to
/usr/lib/libXrender.la. There appears to be a bug in libtool that that
compels it to place absolute paths to .la files in other .la files.
This symlink should allow a transition to a non-broken libtool (or the
eventual recompilation of all libraries that transitively depend on
libXrender, which is a lot of them) and will be removed in the future.
- debian/libxrender-dev.links

Funny bug, I'm sure you agree :?
So you'll find the file in /usr/lib/ , just copy it over while they are identical

If it helps, the whole content of libxrender.la which is just a text file is:
(and if you can't find it in /usr/lib/ either)


# libXrender.la - a libtool library file
# Generated by ltmain.sh - GNU libtool 1.5 (1.1220 2003/04/05 19:32:58)
#
# Please DO NOT delete this file!
# It is necessary for linking the library.

# The name that we can dlopen(3).
dlname='libXrender.so.1'

# Names of this library.
library_names='libXrender.so.1.2.2 libXrender.so.1 libXrender.so'

# The name of the static archive.
old_library='libXrender.a'

# Libraries that this one depends upon.
dependency_libs=' -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11'

# Version information for libXrender.
current=3
age=2
revision=2

# Is this an already installed library?
installed=yes

# Should we warn about portability when linking against -modules?
shouldnotlink=no

# Files to dlopen/dlpreopen
dlopen=''
dlpreopen=''

# Directory that this library needs to be installed in:
libdir='/usr/lib'

[bro]

Hi,
If you look in: file:/usr/share/doc/libxrender-dev/changelog.Debian
you'll see among other things:


* Under duress, ship a symlink from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXrender.la to
/usr/lib/libXrender.la. There appears to be a bug in libtool that


Funny bug, I'm sure you agree :?


Thank you!!
AS for funny bugs, it sure is!



# libXrender.la - a libtool library file
# Generated by ltmain.sh - GNU libtool 1.5 (1.1220 2003/04/05 19:32:58)
#
# Please DO NOT delete this file!
# It is necessary for linking the library.



Thanks a bunch for including the file, cuz it wasn't there!

Furthermore, I note that in /usr/X11R6/lib there is a link
libXrender.so -> libXrender.so.1.2.2
except there's no so.1.2.2 in the dir!
It *is* there in /usr/lib, so I assume I should fix that, no?

Well, here we go again!

(oh, is there a way to get dpkg -b to take advantage of previous work, or does it absolutely
have to go through all of configure and all the compiling it has already done all over again?)

tnx,
j.

[bro]

Well, if anybody is still following this saga,
I finally managed to "downgrade" xlibs-pic by "downgrading" all the xlibs
packages, had to fix a number of missing links, and finally got kdelibs4
to compile -- got me a nice fresh kdecore.so.4

-- and it fixed nothing.

I've also got the exact same libpthreads as others with working systems,

And I got some pretty convincing advice to start all over and install
Debian from scratch..

It seems Knoppix is absolutely wonderful -- as long as you stay knoppix.
Debian is great too -- as long as you stay Debian.
But Knoppix is NOT Debian! That's where I seem to have gone wrong.
I tried to migrate from knoppix to debian, and *that* just doesn't work.

Anybody care to prove me wrong? I'm listening.

j.

[Markus]

You're braver than me if you keep on trying (and more knowleable).

I installed Knoppix 4 times over before I got it right and the way I wanted.
A separate home partition speeds things up a bit.
A new install seems to write over everything on the partition you install to, can't remember if it does it by formatting?

Knoppix seems to be a mix of testing/unstable.
I have testing in apt.conf, and I've commented out in apt.sources everything but testing.
Seems to work while update - upgrade has nothing to do anymore and no packages are on hold.

I did have some trouble with kdelibs4-data and libxcursor-dev after installing some programs, for solution look at:
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6057#27620
Although if I remember correctly I had to install libc6 to manage libxcursor-dev.

If you'll continue trying, try doing a dist-upgrade. I once did to unstable, but that was install 3/4 :)

Markus

[bro]

Markus,
Not braver (nor more knowledgeable) ... just more bull-headed! :wink:

I have heard on debian lists that dist-upgrade is not that reliable
esp. from Knoppix (esp. when Knoppix uses higher version numbers..)

It would be nice if somebody had posted a HOW-TO get from Knoppix
to pure Debian somewhere.. I haven't found it yet.. :cry:


j.

[Stephen]

Markus,
Not braver (nor more knowledgeable) ... just more bull-headed! :wink:

I have heard on debian lists that dist-upgrade is not that reliable
esp. from Knoppix (esp. when Knoppix uses higher version numbers..)

It would be nice if somebody had posted a HOW-TO get from Knoppix
to pure Debian somewhere.. I haven't found it yet.. :cry:


j.
Firstly remove all the excess packages that are installed and will never be used by yourself and for the modified sysvinit that is used try the method described by m_yates in this thread (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5759#26308). You may as well want to remove the knoppix-* packages that are on the system as well. Or do what I did and use Bonzai (https://developer.berlios.de/projects/bonzai/) decline the opportunity to install KDE and change the sources.list and dist-upgrade to SID then install KDE ( the less packages installed the better when doing this less chance for conflicts) at the time many months ago when I used it at version 1.4 you still had to select the modules you wanted loaded but it is at 3.1 now so it may have changed or you can try the new Sarge installer I read it is pretty good.

[bro]

Markus,
It would be nice if somebody had posted a HOW-TO get from Knoppix
to pure Debian somewhere.. I haven't found it yet.. :cry:
j.

Firstly remove all the excess packages that are installed and will never be used by yourself and for the modified sysvinit that is used try the method described by m_yates in this thread (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5759#26308). You may as well want to remove the knoppix-* packages that are on the system as well.
[...] or you can try the new Sarge installer I read it is pretty good.


Thanks!
I've done a lot of that already -- remove knoppix packages, remove stuff I know I don't want/need, but there's a lot I just don't know about, too..

The "m_yates" method looks worthwhile, and I think I'll give it a shot.

However, nothing yet has been said by anyone that would appear to address the libpthread.so crashes.. and I doubt that sysvinit wouild have any bearing on that..
Still mystified.. :?