nrj
12-16-2003, 11:49 PM
I have been dabbling with several distributions for a few weeks (full, live,
and live installed to HD) with various successes and failures (Mandrake
9.1, 9.2, PClinuxOS, Knoppix, Knoppmyth, Debian stable - all have their
+/-s). I had visions of building a computer from scratch, installing an OS,
getting comfy in the new world, learning increasingly clever ways of
tweaking my system, finally ending in an open source machine that had
never tasted Microsoft. It was (is) even going to be a PVR with video out
and geeks will come from distant lands to see if they can glimpse the
Miracle.
I made a Frankenstein computer with a nForce2 mb (Chaintech) as the
backbone and soon realized that I made my life more interesting than it
needed to be in the Linux world. The problem is widely known: NICs don't
work out of the box with any free distribution that I have tried (except
PClinuxOS, so far...). The solution, I have discovered, is trivial (as I have
discovered after 2 weeks of prowling forums, googling my butt off, and
reading lots and lots of FAQs...yes, I also have a job...). Just download the
drivers, install, and Bob's yer uncle. Oh, nVidia hasn't pre-compiled one
for that kernel, no problem, download the tars, recompile your kernel. Oh,
this distribution didn't include the kernel source (MD9.2), download, put in
the right place, recompile, Bob... Oh, change a few config files as root,
reboot, Bob's yer uncle. Oh, there's no emacs, just vi, learn some vi, B...
Oh, change inittab back so you can get back into X, Bob's yer....
Fine, I like to dabble. I understand the moral aversion to including the
proprietary drivers. Never mind the detective work needed to figure this
out, never mind the egg before the chicken nature of downloading
something with a computer with a broken NIC driver, never mind the trial
by fire introduction to kernel recompiling, untarring, and everything Linuxy.
Hey, I am enjoying it and I know it will work out soon. I like to RTFM.
However, this begs the question: what would make this easier?
What would work nicely (best) if you were building a computer from
scratch (these things go together like Legos)?
Yes, I used the word "best" in a question on a forum.... No, I don't want a
specific answer. What I mean is, what do designers expect their
distributions to be run on? I know, I know. "Anything! That's what makes
Linux so awesome!" But, what is the best case scenario? Many of these
people at least share a mindset with engineers. They wouldn't send
something out the door that doesn't work on at least their own setup. So it
must work in the expected way on some set of hardware. So, never mind
my intentions with my computer, never mind the easy, post-install fixes.
Say your mom calls and says "Your father just built a computer and is
ready to install that fancy Linux thing all the kids are trying." To which I
will reply "Well, thank goodness he got a YYY motherboard and a
ZZZ graphics card. Because Linux just works with that set up..."
Clearly, nVidia is tricky. I'm not saying I wouldn't do it again, but would a
VIA board + ATI graphics have been easier to deal with. Intel? Would a
non-nVidia mb + nVidia graphics have been easier? My guess is yes,
because then you could download the graphics driver without the NIC
hassle. Are ATI boards better supported or just receive generic support
and the hoops one needs to jump through to get nVidia working under
Linux working are worth it? I think under Windows performance
differences between ATI/nVidia are nonsignficant. I don't want to play any
games that needs a $400 graphics card, but I want something that works
well in 2D/3D and will do video in/out, with the best case scenario being a
tv tuner card with a svhs in + MythTv that works. I am willing to wait for
it. Right now, I am using Leadtek TV2000XP + integrated nVidia tv-out.
The TV tuner is another story, but suffice to say, I am not there yet (the
raw cable feed gives me one channel (BET) in black and white and no
channel changing in MythTV as found in KnoppMyth). Probably need to run
it through the cable box, then to the computer and do the changing on the
external tuner... so inelegant...
Anyway, just curious what other people have found. It looks like I went
for an enthusiast set-up and have ended up learning a lot of what other
people take for granted because they have plenty of experience with the
easy stuff.
Maybe responses to this will help another person getting ready to take the
plunge building a machine to run Knoppix.
nrj
and live installed to HD) with various successes and failures (Mandrake
9.1, 9.2, PClinuxOS, Knoppix, Knoppmyth, Debian stable - all have their
+/-s). I had visions of building a computer from scratch, installing an OS,
getting comfy in the new world, learning increasingly clever ways of
tweaking my system, finally ending in an open source machine that had
never tasted Microsoft. It was (is) even going to be a PVR with video out
and geeks will come from distant lands to see if they can glimpse the
Miracle.
I made a Frankenstein computer with a nForce2 mb (Chaintech) as the
backbone and soon realized that I made my life more interesting than it
needed to be in the Linux world. The problem is widely known: NICs don't
work out of the box with any free distribution that I have tried (except
PClinuxOS, so far...). The solution, I have discovered, is trivial (as I have
discovered after 2 weeks of prowling forums, googling my butt off, and
reading lots and lots of FAQs...yes, I also have a job...). Just download the
drivers, install, and Bob's yer uncle. Oh, nVidia hasn't pre-compiled one
for that kernel, no problem, download the tars, recompile your kernel. Oh,
this distribution didn't include the kernel source (MD9.2), download, put in
the right place, recompile, Bob... Oh, change a few config files as root,
reboot, Bob's yer uncle. Oh, there's no emacs, just vi, learn some vi, B...
Oh, change inittab back so you can get back into X, Bob's yer....
Fine, I like to dabble. I understand the moral aversion to including the
proprietary drivers. Never mind the detective work needed to figure this
out, never mind the egg before the chicken nature of downloading
something with a computer with a broken NIC driver, never mind the trial
by fire introduction to kernel recompiling, untarring, and everything Linuxy.
Hey, I am enjoying it and I know it will work out soon. I like to RTFM.
However, this begs the question: what would make this easier?
What would work nicely (best) if you were building a computer from
scratch (these things go together like Legos)?
Yes, I used the word "best" in a question on a forum.... No, I don't want a
specific answer. What I mean is, what do designers expect their
distributions to be run on? I know, I know. "Anything! That's what makes
Linux so awesome!" But, what is the best case scenario? Many of these
people at least share a mindset with engineers. They wouldn't send
something out the door that doesn't work on at least their own setup. So it
must work in the expected way on some set of hardware. So, never mind
my intentions with my computer, never mind the easy, post-install fixes.
Say your mom calls and says "Your father just built a computer and is
ready to install that fancy Linux thing all the kids are trying." To which I
will reply "Well, thank goodness he got a YYY motherboard and a
ZZZ graphics card. Because Linux just works with that set up..."
Clearly, nVidia is tricky. I'm not saying I wouldn't do it again, but would a
VIA board + ATI graphics have been easier to deal with. Intel? Would a
non-nVidia mb + nVidia graphics have been easier? My guess is yes,
because then you could download the graphics driver without the NIC
hassle. Are ATI boards better supported or just receive generic support
and the hoops one needs to jump through to get nVidia working under
Linux working are worth it? I think under Windows performance
differences between ATI/nVidia are nonsignficant. I don't want to play any
games that needs a $400 graphics card, but I want something that works
well in 2D/3D and will do video in/out, with the best case scenario being a
tv tuner card with a svhs in + MythTv that works. I am willing to wait for
it. Right now, I am using Leadtek TV2000XP + integrated nVidia tv-out.
The TV tuner is another story, but suffice to say, I am not there yet (the
raw cable feed gives me one channel (BET) in black and white and no
channel changing in MythTV as found in KnoppMyth). Probably need to run
it through the cable box, then to the computer and do the changing on the
external tuner... so inelegant...
Anyway, just curious what other people have found. It looks like I went
for an enthusiast set-up and have ended up learning a lot of what other
people take for granted because they have plenty of experience with the
easy stuff.
Maybe responses to this will help another person getting ready to take the
plunge building a machine to run Knoppix.
nrj