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A. Jorge Garcia

12-31-2003, 08:59 PM

Harry Kuhman

12-31-2003, 10:21 PM

I'm wondering if anyone has had any success running a router from home off a cable modem? I have several KNOPPIX cable ready PCs in my home office and would like to run them all concurrently off the cable modem. Is this doable?

I know, I know, I've already been told to use a hub and iptables, etc. I don't have any hubs laying about and I don't see any for cheap. I'm wondering if there's a cheap and easy way to do this?

TIA,

It's very doable. In fact, I wouldn't consider running without one. I personally connect with a router to DSL, but have connected knoppix through a router to cable at several friend's houses (in one case where I took the router there myself and set it up in about 15 seconds).

In addition to the firewall protection (which, granted you need less when running from a CD), the router will present a simple common interface to the ISP. For DSL this means it will log in for you, take care of any PPPoE issues, and such, no special software needed on your computer. For cable it will present a single static MAC address (which you can set to be the present MAC address the cable company already sees if it matters). The router does DHCP, so you can know locally that your system is working without even needing to be connected to the ISP, as well as providing a handy way to network multiple systems together or provide for additional access when you're visited by someone with a notebook.

Overall I think half of all network problems posted here would go away or at least be resolved much faster if the posters were using routers.

Yes, hubs are getting hard to find. And you don't really want one (or a switch) to replace a router, at least you don't if your ISP doesn't provide you multiple static IP addresses. With a hub (or a switch) each computer must have an IP address that is valid on the Internet. With a router the router gets the valid IP address, and assigns each local computer a local IP address (usually from the 192.168.xxx.xxx group) that can not be routed on the Internet. Of course, the router takes care of making sure all local packets get translated into valid Internet IP packets when required. About the only reason to use a hub any more is for packet sniffing with software like Ethreal (that's what I got mine for). Otherwise use a router and, if you need to further expand the network, use switches).

In general the routers work great (although I have had problems with the Belkin brand). There are a few problem applications, like Microsoft's Netmeeting, but even for these ther are generally solutions like putting the computer into a "DMZ" mode where it gets all incoming packets that are not for other computers. At the current costs (often as low as $10 U.S. after rebate for 4 port wired routers), the simple answer is get one and see for yourself.

hardware_bum

12-31-2003, 11:38 PM

I assume you mean a "home" router. I've been using a Linksys wired router here at home, connected to my cable modem. No problems whatever. In fact, my kids still run various flavors of Windows on their personal computers while I run either Win 98, Knoppix from the CD or Debian Linux.

A. Jorge Garcia

01-01-2004, 03:52 AM

Harry Kuhman

01-01-2004, 04:15 AM

OK, cool, I was looking at some LinkSys EtherFast 4-port Routers on ebay for cheap.

How does this work? The cable comes into the cable modem as usual but the output of the modem now goes into the router, right? I suppose that's one of the 4 ports taken up already. So I can add 2 more PCs to my current one for a total of 3 concurrent Linux boxes on the net?

TIA,
I would strongly suggest that you look around for a sale this Sunday rather than go with a ebay "deal". You might end up paying less, will avoid getting hit on "shipping charges", and don't take the other risks involved with ebay. Plus you'll have a new unit with a warranty. I frequently see good d-link, SMC and even Linksys routers for 10 to 20 bucks after rebate in the stores (Best Buy, CompUSA, sometimes Circuit City, even Staples and OfficeMax). By the way, I paid $100 for my 4 port Linksys a couple years ago and it was still a good deal.

The router connects to the cable modem through a standard ethernet cable (some routers include a short ethernet cable for this purpose, but I think the Linksys makes you buy or make one seperately). No, this does not use one of your connections, a "4 port" router actually has 4 local ports as well as a port to connect to the modem. So you have 4 local ports available. There are some 8 port versions available(as well as routers with less than 4 ports), but 4 port versions are the best cost/performance point available simply because most sold are 4 port units. If you need more ports you can add a switch (or a hub, but a switch is a better choice), how depends on the router (some have yet an extra jack, some have a physical switch you throw, some just senses the line and adjust automagically). So you get up to 4 computers on the network without an extra switch, for more add a switch). The downside here is that a 5 port switch only adds 3 more computers to your network - you use one port to connect to the router, but that uses one of the 5 ports on the switch and one of the 4 one the router. Still, it lets you run one ethernet drop to another room (if you want) and then fan out from there, so what you loose in ports you may save in cable. The DHCP server built into the router can generally support up to 253 local users.

rusty

01-01-2004, 05:26 AM

Thought I would chime in.

Yes, a hardware router/switch combination, which your links point to, is generally cheap these days. However I wonder if you could get more functionality by using one of the PC's as the router and then a separate, and perhaps less expensive switch or hub.

This would involve placing a PC running say, Coyote Linux between your cable modem and the switch or hub, then connecting your other PC's to the hub/switch. Great use for an old PC.

I have an old P155 running CoyoteLinux and an old 5 port hub to which my other 4 home Linux/Windoze boxes (and a PS/2) are connected. Not pretty but it works great. I basically put two network cards in the old P155, the Coyote runs off a 1.4 floppy and set and forget.

You could just as easily place any linux box running Knoppix or whatever in the line, set up iptables, or one of the firewalls and still use the router computer for other purposes.

The only reason I didn't buy a router/switch was because I had the other hardware on hand.

If you search the forums here, you can find plenty of posts with links to Coyotelinux and such. rickenbacherus knows this stuff well.

A few links that might be helpful :

http://www.coyotelinux.com/
http://www.squid-cache.org/
http://lrp.steinkuehler.net/

Harry Kuhman

01-01-2004, 05:53 AM

.... I wonder if you could get more functionality by using one of the PC's as the router and then a separate, and perhaps less expensive switch or hub.

You certainly can make a router out of an old PC. There are some issues, of course. Obviously you need to add at least two NICs to the PC. A bigger issue with me was that I leave my connection up 24x7, I expect it costs me less to buy and run an inexpensive, cool running, silent router that runs off a small wall-wart than it would to just power an old PC for a few years. I guess it comes down to if you want to go through the learning experience or if you just want something that solves the problem and lets you focus on learning something else.

As to using a cheaper switch or hub with a computer, I don't think that's very likely. The routers are sold in great numbers and often at a great discount (I couldn't find a really cheap 4 port wired router tonight in a few minutes of searching, although I did find that CompUSA has a $29.99 router that has 4 ports and includes 802.11b wireless access. [It's FMI brand, I know nothing about if it's good or bad.]) Still, I expect in a few days or another week after that at the most there will be some deals on wired 4 port units, there seem to be every few weeks. A 4 or 5 port switch might well cost more than the router with built-in switch, which really makes using a computer and then a switch purely a learning exercise or something done only for exceptional needs that the off-the-shelf units don't address. In fact, if you need a switch you might want to look at some routers - I think the firmware version in my old Linksys would let me disable the router and DHCP server and just use the device as a simple switch. In some cases this could be less expensive than buying just a switch (which are sold in smaller numbers and to "industry" that is less price sensitive than home consumers, so they are seldom as well discounted as routers like the Linksys, d-link, or SMC boxes).

Harry Kuhman

01-01-2004, 06:29 AM

How about:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3069127034&category=40993

Let me point out I'm very negative about ebay so other don't have too. Still, here's the answer to your post: This one has a buy it now price of $20 bucks, but the seller leaves how much he's going to stick you for shipping as a surprise. I've seen many ebay sellers use the shipping to make their real money (I have a good friend who thought he "won" an auction and bought a cheap pair of speakers for 99 cents (the kind you can frequently get free-after-rebate at OfficeMax), then ended up paying $17 in shipping and "handeling" for them.)

I don't often see Linksys at less than $20, but I have seen it. And many retailers are doing "free shipping" deals now, while generally ebay sellers are not.

How about:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3068471260&category=20324

DANGER HERE! While the seller says "Share your Broadband Internet Connection Over Your Entire Network!", you might want to check how big that entire network is. It is a BEFSR11. This is a ONE PORT router! see here: http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?prid=142&scid=29

If you get this you still need a switch, while will likely cost you more than a router. This for a buy-it-now price of $38 including shipping? No way in hell.

How about:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3069178552&category=20324

This one is alread sold. It sold for $28 plus $8 shipping, $36. Given that I can get a 4 port and wireless router from CompUSA for less today (not Linksys, but it would have a warranty and a large chain behind it, as well as offering a wireless capability if you ever needed it), I wouldn't be too sad about missing out on this.

rusty

01-01-2004, 05:20 PM

I'll add a few more cents worth.

H.K. is right about relative cost and ease of setup of a hardware router/switch combo. I see a switch on CompUsa for $17 and a hub for $16 but most of the switches and hubs are near the price of a router, what with rebates and all. When I was looking at them, the routers were $20-$30 more than switches and they were $10 to $20 more than hubs.

I guess it depends on what the user intends to do. If the network is going to be primarily made up of Windows boxes sharing a connection for browsing etc. a hardware router is fine.

I was thinking that if Knoppix was going to be the OS on the boxes, then one of them might as well be a router/firewalll and could also run other services. And still be used as a workstation.

One thing to consider while shopping is whether the hardware router can be configured via a linux browser. Linksys for example has this on their website:

Q: Does the Wireless Access Point Router support any operating system other than Windows 95, 98, Millennium, NT, 2000 or XP?
A: The Wireless Access Point Router is operating system independent. However the web based browser utility will work with Netscape or Microsoft Internet Explorer. Linksys does not, at this time, provide technical support for setup, configuration or troubleshooting for any non-Windows operating systems.

Anyhoo: Happy New Year

A. Jorge Garcia

01-01-2004, 05:28 PM

I find that if I do my homework, I have very good experiences with ebay. This means learning as much as possible about the hardware options available and looking for someone with a good rep on ebay selling with buy-it-now and spelled-out S&H that is reasonable.

HK: you say you have used several routers. Have you used LinkSys? What brand/model do you recommend?

TIA,

Harry Kuhman

01-01-2004, 07:49 PM

HK: you say you have used several routers. Have you used LinkSys? What brand/model do you recommend?

My first router was a Linksys, the 4 port BEFSR41 (Be careful you don't get one of those one port deals like the one sold on ebay). It did what it was supposed to. Cost about $100 at the time, and that was after careful shopping, retail was more.

I've had a chance to test and use a NexLand SOHO router. It worked great, although it was ugly as hell (If you're not straight you might like it). There were promises that future software would have a feature to support Netmeeting, but I don't know if that ever materialized. Overall the software seemed a lot more flexiable and user friendly than the Linksys.

I helped a friend set up her d-Link. The d-link was chosen simply on price ($19 or $29 after rebate while the Linksys was still around $100). It works great. Again, many features were easier and more user friendly than the Linksys. For example, to clone your MAC address on my Linksys you have to determine your MAC address, write it down, go to the web page on the router for changing the MAC address and enter the new MAC address. On the d-link there is a web page button that simply says Clone MAC Address. You press it, it knows what MAC address you have from your packet and uses it. A simple difference, but there are lots of little things like this where the Linksys user needs to be a little more technical than the users of other routers.

I got a Belkin wireless router as part of a deal when I got a notebook this year. Hunk of crap. Belkin does not respond to support email, and the routher has real support issues. No firmware updates have ever been posted. My personal view is that I'll never buy a Belkin router again. Went back to using my Linksys after a few days.

I bought a 4 port SMC wireless router. $29 after rebates at CompUSA. Works great. Many features that the Linksys lacks. I'm connected through it now.

Of the routers I've tried, all work fine with Linux and let you set up the router with a Linux browser except the Belkin (which seemed to have DHCP problems with Knoppix along with it's other problems!).

I've never seen a good feature comparison article that covers the many available routers. If you do come across one in your research, please post back here a link for it. I'll try to give you a quick overview of the differences I noted. To be fair, let me say that I've never flashed my Linksys with any of the upgrades since I got it, but I have looked at the change lists for those upgrades and never seen anything I though I would use to make it worth upgrading the firmware.

The one area that I did see that the Linksys was better at than the other routers I looked at was logging. There is a web interface log that is very minimal, but there is a feature that lets you send log information to another address on the local network. If you do this and run logging software on another system you can collect better logs. The Linksys sofware is (or at least was) available on their website, although it's very hard to find. They didn't include it on the CD that came with the router or even tell you how to find it. This software is still pretty simple, and there is at least one other package out that that does a great job (but is not free). As far as I know all available logging software runs on Windows, not Linux. None of the other routers I've looked at do anywhere near as nice of a job of logging as the Linksys.

On the other hand, the other routers generally are cleaner to set up, in some cases more flexiable, and have some neat features that the Linksys lacks. Some routers (If I remember right the d-link had this, as well as the Nexland and even the Belkin) let you configure a lot of known services and applications simply by name rather than by port addresses. The SMC has a special feature that can open a range of ports when it sees an application has started to use a particular triger port (this might even let me use Netmeeting behind the firewall if I knew what ports I needed to set up, but that's still the elusive Holy Grail of NAT router use for me).

Most of all of the others had provisions that let you make sure that the same computer would keep getting the same IP address with DHCP (like a DHCP lease, where you can control how long it takes for the lease to expire, including never). This is important when you want to route incoming traffic to a particular system. The Linksys lacked this and I had to actually disable DHCP on several of my systems and assign them permanent IP addresses. This worked, but was a real pain when I started testing other routers and was out of the question for the notebook, which I wanted to be able to take other places and have work by DHCP without having to constantly go into the control panel and change network settings.

A few of the routers (I think the d-link, I know it's in the SMC and even the Belkin), have a slick feature that lets you control access by time of day and week. This might be very handy for a parent who wanted to impose some Internet access restrictions on certain (or all) computers in the house. This is not available on my Linksys.

Overall, other than the Belkin, any of the routers I've looked at do the job, although features vary from device to device. Unless I've touched on something that you particularly want here or you can find a good article that compares the various offerings feature by feature, I don't know of a good way to know what router is best for you other than to try them. The Linksys is certainly the best know and I expect the best seller, but other routers are certainly good and have features the Linksys lacks, I wouldn't buy the Linksys based on name only if there was a big price difference with an SMC or a d-link. (unless it was in an office situation where I wanted to do the logging and was willing to dedicate a special logging computer, in which case the Linksys far outshines the rest).

As far as models go, just shop price and features. I've seen some rebate deals on ones that include a built-in print server. Some people might think they need that, I'm happier with just sharing my printers with other computers on the network. Check you port count, some routers have two, the Linksys you found on ebay (second of 3) has only 1!, while some may have as many as 8, but 4 is by far the most common. All can be extended by adding switches and even hubs, but I wouldn't buy a 3 port unit if I knew I had 4 computers in my house that I wanted to wire in and I didn't have a switch available. On the other hand, I wouldn't pay a lot extra for an 8 port unit when I know I can always add an inexpensive switch and get the same or better functionality. I've seen some mention of VPN support in some routers; this should be investigated if you have a current need for it. However, while Linksys has some routers that they charge extra for because of VPN support, I have a friend who has been using VPN to get into his work fine on a simple Linksys BEFSR41, so I don't know what you are paying extra for. I've also seen Linksys advertising routers witha built-in "firewall" that they charge extra for. I have no idea what this is about, any of these routers will server as a firewall. It's my understanding that even the basic BEFSR41 does stateful inspection; I've never found a good explination of what additional security you might get if you pay for a Linksys router that Marketing as added the firewall claim to.

Good luck in your search. Please post back what you end up with.

A. Jorge Garcia

01-02-2004, 04:37 AM

OK, it looks like the Linksys BEFSR41 Cable/DSL Router is the one to get. However, you seem to like SMC and d-link, right? Let me look into some of these before I commit....

Thanx!

desire

01-02-2004, 09:01 AM

I'm glad I "stumbled" on to this thread, some very good insights. Setting up a router is my next project I decided to go with the SMC. Up here in Canada they can be had for around $50 ($25 after the rebate) Although I always assume the price without the rebate (worked for a large chain and know about rebates all too well) Even so $50 is still pretty cheap, actually just checked it's $42 no rebate. If I can get this thing to work then pretty well anyone can get it to work.

Hunkah

01-02-2004, 10:58 AM

Staples had the D-Link 4port Routers on for $10.00 CAN on boxing day! I missed the sale or I would have bought 25 of them. Check out Staples first, the D-Links have a great price right now, plus there is a mail in rebate till Jan 5th.

Duffin444

01-02-2004, 08:47 PM

If you do have an old computer just sitting around and doing nothing right now it might very-well be worth it just to fix that into a simple router/firewall/print server/VPN endpoint and/or SSH endpoint/HTTP proxy for caching (http://sourceforge.net/projects/squid/) and/or ad blocking and anonymizing (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ijbswa/). The D-link/Linksys/Belkin/Netgear/SMC routers are an easy way to go, unfortunately they have no real firewall ability at all. Most if not all the consumer level solutions I have seen simply claim they have a firewall because they do not offer a *direct* path to your computer (NAT (http://computer.howstuffworks.com/nat.htm)). While this does take you off of the "easy hit" list, it is not a real firewall and is vulnerable to a number of attacks and circumventions (http://www.nessus.org/intro.html).

Another thing to consider is that without one of the D-link/Linksys/Belkin/Netgear/SMC you would have to leave a computer on all the time (and this is kinda a drag if you are not interested in any of the extra features listed above) you do not have to use this "always on" computer just for routing. Most cable companies and connections do not issue a new IP address very frequently; my IP address changes about once or twice a year. Because of this you can quite reliably sail on over to a website like GoDaddy.com (http://www.godaddy.com/) and get a domain name for less than ten bucks a year and host a website on your "always on" computer. Why stop with a web server? You could add an FTP (http://www.ncftp.com/ncftpd/) server, a VNC (http://www.realvnc.com/) server, a DNS (http://sourceforge.net/projects/posadis/) server, and a Mail (http://sourceforge.net/projects/rhems/) server Suddenly that "router" becomes a power-house of portability and usability. Add PHP (http://www.php.net/) support to your install of Apache (http://httpd.apache.org/)(web server) and you could host a forum (phpBB (http://phpbb.com/)) that looks just like this for your calculus class. You could host downloads of sizes that are limited only by your hard drive capacity, and host all the web content you want. With an SSH (http://www.openssh.com/) server installed you could securely access any of the computers on your LAN from anywhere in the world that has an Internet connection. All of this capability for only the cost of an old junk computer with two network cards a switch and the electricity it costs to run it! And best of all... it is an adventure that has a multitude of possibilities and potential to expand ones' own knowledge and all thanks to Linux and the Open Source community.

If you do decide to go with a firmware router then, as far as deciding what router to get by what company, most routers are comparable to each other except that the newer routers tend to have a better application layer interface with Winblows (UPnP (http://www.upnp.org/download/UPnPDA10_20000613.htm)). And you might look on the routers homepage and see what the release cycle is for the firmware (internal software for the router). Good companies that have good support tend to have a better update cycle for their products.

Cheers,
Duffin

Harry Kuhman

01-02-2004, 09:18 PM

I agree with many of your points. There are even some other things you didn't mention that you could do with a home brew router that the NAT appliances don't offer. But if you're not after these goals, I still think a NAT appliance is a better choice. The original post in the thread described a situation that was right for a network appliance.

Your ISP may only change your IP address a couple of times a year, but others of us are not so lucky. My DSL provider changes mine at least weekly, if not more often. Users should know how their own provider works rather than to expect a fairly static address.

If you do decide to go with a firmware router then, as far as deciding what router to get by what company, most routers are comparable to each other except that the newer routers tend to have a better application layer interface with Winblows (UPnP (http://www.upnp.org/download/UPnPDA10_20000613.htm)).

True, but then this brings up the whole religious war of "do you want UPnP in the first place?". I certainly don't, it's the main reason I never falshed my UPnP free Linksys router in the first place. Fortunately, the SMC has a feature to disable it. UPnP is a serious security risk, some of us don't want a "feature" that lets Bill Gates bypass the rules we have set up.

Harry Kuhman

01-03-2004, 12:08 AM

For what it's worth, there is a Netgear 802.11b wireless router at newegg.com for $32 after rebate with free shipping. If you look at the pictures you see that it also has 4 wired ports. I have not used a netgear so can't make a recomendaion either way, but it's price looks right (if you want the 802.11b option).

Here's the link:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?DEPA=1&sumit=Go&description=33%2D122%2D011&searchdepa=1

Harry Kuhman

01-04-2004, 01:47 AM

Starting Sunday, OfficeMax has a 4 port d-link router for $19.99 after rebate.

Harry Kuhman

01-04-2004, 07:19 AM

CompUSA has a so called "Unadvertised special" for a Wireless router (802.11b) for $19.99, no rebate involved. Looks like a "store brand", I have no idea who makes it. In my experience wireless routers generally also have 4 wired ports available, seems worth checking out.

http://www.compusa.com/AdProducts/html_ad/1_4_2004/1_4_pg1.pdf

Harry Kuhman

01-11-2004, 07:27 AM

Just incase A. Jorge hasn't made a choice yet, this week at CompUSA you can get a d-link wired router for $19.99 after rebates (and that also includes an extra PCI NIC in the bundle) or a d-link router with 4 ports but also 802.11b wireless capability for ten bucks more. Page 12 of the new flyer. Here's the link: http://compusa.dailyshopper.com/index.aspx?pagename=circularlarge&pagenumber=12&circularid=2884

A. Jorge Garcia

01-11-2004, 03:11 PM

Thanx guys, but real life has gotten in the way of my home office LAN project.

Anyway, I'm going with ebay 'cause I have some mad money burning a hole in my paypal account....

Thanx,

A. Jorge Garcia

01-31-2004, 11:07 PM

BTW, I have to report success! I took your advice and got a d-link 4-port router/switch off ebay. I thank you, my cable modem thaks you and my LAN thanks you!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3070906931

Regards,
AJG

gowator

02-02-2004, 11:29 AM

Sorry this is a bit late...
Bascially I've wrecked two routers ... well a wireless access point and a Belkin router/wifi. They are more fragile than the SEEM
The first was a Netgear wireless access point....

To cut a long story short it really needed WinBlows to configure it but I don't have Winblows... so I kept trying .... I got it working at one point by installing winblows on an old disk then got the clients working....

It all looked fine!!! Anyway to cut a long story short I ended up having to try hardware reseting several times when trying to get it working with linux clients. Somewhere inbetween it refused to hardware reset.

The Belkin runs linux (or at least *nix)
Its a 4 port switch and wifi router ....
Initial setup (shortly after XMAS day at my parents went fine) I had planned to use it with the netgear to use the 4 switched ports in the living room.
Anyway it all looked good and it was a bargain (£60 including a PCMCIA card in the sales)

Anyway at this point I configred it as just a bridge becuae I still had my old server... running routing to the internet/NAT and all the goodies mentioned on this thread!!!

Then I decided to replace the PC with the lower running cost hardware router....
This involved the hardware reset...
Basically the manual says press the reset button, the FAQ on the web sayas press it for 7 secs.

So inbetween Id kept pressing, holding... lights flashed etc.
Then I got the config webpage up in the router and reconfigured.
I kkept getitng the odd error /dev/mda1 not found ....

I messed up and needed to reset again....and I fugured this might solve the device not found...
Oops
It just won't come back up....
Ive tried 50x and the lights don't even power up.
I think its the firmware is damaged BUT I have no way to connect to it and flash it..

Amazingly it still works as a switch.... but all the routing functions are gone and the config page etc.

Now I wish Id stayed with the PC router....

edits...
Oh retrospectively I think this is what happened to the netgear access point. Probably pulled the power while it was writing to the flash memory.

Hunkah

02-05-2004, 11:51 AM

If you .. (losts of cool stuff said).. their products.

Cheers,
Duffin

You did a great job giving a great answer.

I only have one question. What is the problem with having a $100 wireless router plus a web server? I want to set up a web server to a D-link wireless router, that just serves webpages. I want the router to just be a router, so that I can hook up a few computers (1 wired webserver upstairs, 1 wireless downstairs, 1 wired workstation upstairs).

I need the wireless because it will cost me a ton of money for the wire to get it that far, and since I'll have it, why not use it?

Is there a reason why I shouldn't use a stand alone router?

Or better yet is there a benefit to using the linux box to be the router?

Duffin444

02-06-2004, 08:36 AM

In your case it might be best for you to just get the wireless router. This way you can easily setup your wireless networking and at some later time, if you decide to, you can add another machine (or just leave your main machine on all the time) to be a (web)server.

Good luck,
Duffin

Hunkah

02-06-2004, 09:44 AM

So it is possible? Cause I just went out and bought one!!! :roll:
I fugured it was. I bought the D-Link DI-624 and set it up in seconds! It works great for internet access!

I haven't tested it yet with Knoppix, but I will later (3:33am here) or haven't tested it for my web-host box. I just wanted to hook it up to see if it would work.

Anyone have any tips on how to find a free Dynamic DNS service, or is that part of the fun of learning how to set up the linux server?

What I want to do is have a web server at home because I am paying $30+ a month to have my site hosted. That is why I bought the router in the first place. Having the two computers hook up to the internet was just a bonus. I want to have two sites actually one for fun and one for business. Can I do that with only one webserver?

Frig! I know that I don't know squat about this crap and there isn't a quick how to manual anywhere. I know enough to get me interested, but not enough to go poking with stuff.

Again, thank-you anyone and everyone that has some input.

gowator

02-06-2004, 02:06 PM

Well done setitng it all up!!!

I use dynamicdns.org
I have no complaints (and its FREE) but equally friends use no-ip.com and have no complaints....

What you need to do is set your www server in the DMZ part of the router.
Otherwise when you set up the dyndns service it will take people to the config page of your router!

Your router might actually have a dnyamicdns setup service, my dead Belkin did!!!
If not you just need to download a client,
Im using ddnsclient (linked from the dynamicdns.org pages)
however it was just the foirst one I tried!!!
It works .... what else can I say!!!

You can install this on the webserver since its public IP will be the same as the router.

As I said you need the router to send requests to port 80 to the webserver....
quite how depends on the router....
Either look for DMZ or firewalling options....

Hunkah

02-07-2004, 12:00 AM

Thanks for your help, you're swell!

Harry Kuhman

02-07-2004, 12:58 AM

I use dynamicdns.org
I have no complaints (and its FREE) but equally friends use no-ip.com and have no complaints....
.....
Your router might actually have a dnyamicdns setup service, my dead Belkin did!!!
If not you just need to download a client,
Im using ddnsclient (linked from the dynamicdns.org pages)
however it was just the foirst one I tried!!!
It works .... what else can I say!!!
Since you already use one of these servces I'm hoping you can give me a little information on them. I'm not using a Belkin router (mine is crap and is gathering dust), my SMC router sems to only support the paid tzo.com service. My question is, if I use a client behind a NAT router, how does it know when the IP address changes (the IP address of the box it is on will still be a static 192.168.x.x address) so that it knows to update the server (I'm assuming it doesn't have to determine what the new IP address is, since that will end up being in the snt packet after it passes through the NAT router.). Or does it just simply send a packet every x minutes, and let the server decide if the IP address has changed? I would download and try to learn this from the dynamicdns.org site, but I haven't been able to get a response from it all day (do you know of any problems with it?).

Stephen

02-07-2004, 02:22 AM

Harry Kuhman

02-07-2004, 02:34 AM

http://www.dyndns.org/ I believe is the site you are looking for ....
Thanks. Having the right URL seems to help ;-)
Strangely, the other did do a good DNS lookup, just never got an answer from it's server, so I didn't guess the URL was wrong (maybe it's also valid, but it's not answering)

AFAIK you run a client on your machine that goes out and updates the dyndns.org record with your new It when it changes.
Yea, I get that you run a client. My question is that, when I'm behind a NAT router I'll be on a box who's IP address never changes. It's the IP address of my router that changes, and I'm wondering how the client knows when that happens (since there seems to be no common way to talk to the many different routers out there to determine it). The only way I could come up with that the clients might work is to send frequent update packets to the server and let the server decide if the IP address that are coming from has changed or not, but there certainly could be some other way this happens and I would like to know if I'm overlooking something.

Stephen

02-07-2004, 03:11 AM

Thanks. Having the right URL seems to help ;-)
Strangely, the other did do a good DNS lookup, just never got an answer from it's server, so I didn't guess the URL was wrong (maybe it's also valid, but it's not answering)

I got the same thing when I checked the same url just a time out on the server port 80 for the original but I knew it did not look like the right url from seeing people on Debian user who use the same service so I checked a couple of post and there was the correct one.

Yea, I get that you run a client. My question is that, when I'm behind a NAT router I'll be on a box who's IP address never changes. It's the IP address of my router that changes, and I'm wondering how the client knows when that happens (since there seems to be no common way to talk to the many different routers out there to determine it). The only way I could come up with that the clients might work is to send frequent update packets to the server and let the server decide if the IP address that are coming from has changed or not, but there certainly could be some other way this happens and I would like to know if I'm overlooking something.

I believe the idea is the same as something like grc.com does when you probe your ports the client goes out to a site (dyndns.org itself I'm thinking) and uses a lookup to determine the IP you currently have (which would be the IP of the router) and compares to the record it already has if it differs then it changes the record and then your router handles the port forwarding to the IP you choose for the service you will open up.

gowator

02-10-2004, 03:55 PM

Sorry I didn't get back sooner but like Stephen says....

As I pointed out earlier it doesn't actually matter which PC you run it on....
Its a bit more sophisticated than just looking at its IP in the ifconfig and sending that... it actually uses its own protcol to do it.

If you use the ddclient and dyndns.org I can send you the config files I use.

I had to create the init script, not that its hard or anything but I guess it saves messing about!!!