Internet Cafe System

[devlynd]

Hi Folks. Quick background...not a Linux newbie, but I'm no kernel hacker. Fairly new to Knoppix, but I'm playing and reading docs. I co-run a small computer/networking consulting business (side business.) Most of our clients have been small shops where we deploy/support Linux servers.

An idea we had for the coming year is to develop a turn-key Internet Cafe kiosk type system that we would market to local coffee shops/book shops.

Goals:
Must be very affordable for us and for our clients, both in terms of hardware, software and support.
Minimal client hardware, would prefer PXE boot. No HD, CD, or floppy on client machines.
Minimal to no client administration for on-site staff.
Minimal server administration of on-site staff.
Pleasant user experience to include Internet browsing, instant messaging, simple games, possibly light document editing and ability to print to central printer.

I am a few days or so into researching how we would actually set this up. This page has about ~90% of the functionality of what we are looking for:
http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/src/kiosk/ Pretty much the only thing I would add to that setup would be a management system. Perhaps this:
http://akinimod.sourceforge.net/icafe.html

You will probably notice that the Knoppix CD does pretty much what the fellow above has done, thereby doing most of the 'heavy-lifting.' However, there are a few things that would probably have to be changed. I would probably want knoppix installed to a hard drive on the server. I would also want the terminal server to start automatically at bootup. For the clients, I would want them to auto login with no boot prompt. I would also want a fairly minimal client desktop (KDE, Mozilla, Gaim, Open Office, possibly a few games, and not much else.) I do want a full client desktop, however. LTSP seems aimed at just (or mostly) running everyting from the server. I have not found any clear docs on how to make LTSP function as Knoppix Terminal Server does (booting a full client desktop.)

I will have to admit that, at this point, I also haven't found too much solid information on customizing the Knoppix Terminal Server setup and/or using the Knoppix Terminal Server after doing a HD install. I will continue to research, but in the meantime, perhaps a knowledgeable person(s) can give me a few pointers.

I am not asking for detailed hand-holding at this point, but I would appreciate a general outline in the steps I would need to take to accomplish what I am tring to do, using Knoppix as a starting point.

Thanks much, and sorry for rambling.

Devlyn Davis

[devlynd]

As promised, I have continued to research how to implement what I have described above and I believe I stumbled on an excellent solution.

I have followed the suggestions in this thread to get knoppix-terminal server working after a HD install: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2533

While I initially thought this was somewhat of a cludge just to get terminal server working, I am now realizing that this is an almost perfect solution for an Internet Cafe system. Here's my reasoning:

After doing the HD install with knx-hdinstall, you are left with a fairly complete server. Most, if not all of the tools you would need are ready to go. However, you may not want all of those tools available to your terminal server clients. By following the above thread, you copy the entire system to /cdrom, chroot into it and remaster as needed. Then, when you start your Terminal Server, you are sending out the remastered system in /cdrom instead of your base system.

I am still playing and will see how well it works out, though my initial testing has been very positive. In fact, I am going to try to load one of the scaled down systems such as Flonix and DSL and see if I can send those out as my Terminal Server clients (how cool would that be!) I will try to keep a log to help others in similar situations.

-Devlyn

[devlynd]

I just loaded Flonix using the above described process and it worked great! The only thing that didn't load was the background image. Everything else loaded perfectly and this was with zero customization of Flonix. I'm sure with some small tweaking, the background will load.

Quick question: If you've followed this entire thread you should have an idea of the kind of client I'm looking for. Any opinions on the best scaled down customization of Knoppix would be the best candidate for said client?

Thanks!

-Devlyn

[devlynd]

Just tested with Feather Linux and it works great also.

-Devlyn

[Hunkah]

Ummm, I don't think I have ever seen an entire thread where only one person has kept the conversation going.

You win! You are the first!

I am not slamming you, just an observation. 8)

[devlynd]

Don't worry, I'm not going Schizophrenic. And neither am I. 8)


I'm actually quite disorganized. In addition to hoping for some helpful input from the board, I'm also posting my notes in an easily accessible location for when I need to refer back to something such as a link or procedure. And there's always the long shot that someone will find this stuff usefull.

[arkaine23]

Been there and done that myself.

Sounds like its going pretty well. Hope you can provide some full ntoes about the steps for configuration. I've seen LTSP servers used to power diskless boxes the crunch numbers for projects like seti@home or folding@home before and have read a few of those guides (for mandrake or redhat). It'd be nice to know how much is different/already done for you using knoppix.

[pau1knopp]

Good post and thread devlyn.... I will try the FLONIX client install.

A question regarding your implementation... were you able (or did you ever attempt) to get the KDE login screen going for your terminal service clients? Also related to first question, did you ever assign individual user accounts for the TS clients?

[devlynd]

A question regarding your implementation... were you able (or did you ever attempt) to get the KDE login screen going for your terminal service clients? Also related to first question, did you ever assign individual user accounts for the TS clients?

I have not attempted to get an actual login screen such as KDM or individual user accounts for the clients. My design goal for this project would actually be to not have those. However, in an environment such as a classroom, I can see how they would be very beneficial.

I'm not sure how they would be implemented. My initial thought is that the /usr/share/knoppix-terminalserver/templates/miniroot/linuxrc script would have to be modified, but that is just a guess. The knoppix-terminalserver script may also have to be modified.

Not sure how much help I can offer in getting those two areas implemented, but if I find a solution, I will certainly post it.

[andrewtayloruk]

Hi,

We have the need for a bootable CD-ROM we can use with our web-based stock control system.

It needs the hardware detection of knoppix but it must boot without a username and password straight to an X session running only mozilla (ie no window manager).

It needs to be able to print to a network printer as well.

If anyone reading this thread has the knowledge of doing this, please give me call

+44 191 460 1700
+44 773 473 6896

We'll pay you for the work and then you can release it as an ISO if you see fit.

Thanks

Andrew

[deathmas]

I have read all your posts and found them very interesting.

I was wondering tho if you might know more about the knoppix-terminalservers procedures in booting it's clients so that I maybe able to get certian computers to boot a different kernel than the default one.

I know that LTSP itself can be done by editing the dhcpd.conf but alas with knoppix it loads the etherboot.nbi file and then the kernel how can I work around this to change the kernel by computer nic cards mac address.

Like I said I know that you can do this with LTSP but how under knoppix

[binary1230]

thought id share some of the fun i've had

for a graphics class im in here, we needed a linux based setup in the business school and they wouldnt let us do a linux dual boot hd install, so i setup a knoppix terminal server kind of setup off a main box i brought into the lab

so like this:
1 main server (junky box, but it works)
30 clients running winxp (originally that is)

started off with knoppix v3.3 hd install and after playing around a bit i figured that I had to modify some stuff. basically I wanted to customize the base system being served up to the clients to be my own version of knoppix. so what I did was take the cloop knoppix image (700mb KNOPPIX file on the cdrom) and extract it into a dir on the server.

the initrd image has a script called linuxrc that is run on each client as it boots. I modified this so that instead of mounting the nfs exported cloop image, it mounts the base filesystem from /cdrom on the server. this required some tweaking of symlinks and such, but works nicely.

the nice thing is if i want to install any new software on the clients, all i have to do is log in to the server, chroot into /cdrom, and apt-get install or whatever. its nice.

biggest lesson: stuff that uses /dev does NOT like symlinks (at least the nvidia binary module didnt work with X through symlinks)

anyway its definately possible and in fact its not really all that hard. actually i just realized that i may have made it overly complicated because i was using knoppix v3.2 on the server to serve up version 3.3

as for performance, everything takes a bit longer to start with more than 1 client (obviously) but that could also be because my server box is just an old client box, nothing special or fast about it. once everything is booted the system is very fast. as for actual benchmarks, i dont really have any right now

fun

hm does anyone know if updated hd-installed terminal server scripts will be part of the next knoppix? if not we should definately get some in there. the ones i modified are more of a quick hack, but id be willing to help out with it.

-Dom

[gromeo]

Is there any ready solution that I could use - I mean I need just a solution for internet cafe's. ??????????????

[gromeo]

Is there any ready solution that I could use - I mean I need just a solution for internet cafe's. ??????????????