Important questions on Linux

[art]

I have a few questions about Linux suited for my needs, I appreciate if some experts on this forum can take some time to answer my queries. I presently am using Win2K both at work and at home. My home computer has Miktex, Mathematica, Emacs., Telecommuting software, and my banking software. I find it convenient to use them on my present machine. I hope to build a new PC / buy one at a Computer Show for less money. That is reason I want to install Linux on the present Pentium II 400 MHz machine and hopefully Win2K as well. I connect to internet quite often with a dial-up modem. I don’t need cable access. I have an option of burning a CD from a friends home who has cable modem access.

My questions are as follows.

1. Which is the best & easiest to install Linux distribution to work with Win2K programs ?
2. Is there a comparable program to Mathematica, or should I upgrade to a Mathematica Linux one?
3. Are you aware of finance programs on Linux?
4. Why are there so many new releases of Linux?, Is there a need to keep ones Linux OS upgraded for the latest release?
5. Once installed, is it easy to upgrade through a CD (which can be burned from with a PC which has cable access)? & what do I need to do to upgrade?
6. If I am assembling a PC/ buying one from a computer show, What are the things that I should look out for towards Linux & Windows PC.
7. If I have a base Linux on PC, can I use different CDs to run other extra programs that I don’t want installed on a PC?
8. If I use Linux PC, can I download Win programs onto Linux PC and run them using WINE?

Thanks a lot for taking your time to answer these questions.


Art [/b]

[Cuddles]

Art,

A shopping list, to say the least, I will attempt to contribute to answers, to what I know...

Your Questions:
1. Which is the best & easiest to install Linux distribution to work with Win2K programs ?
***** Never worked with Win2k - I used Win98 with mine, previously, and now just run Knoppix straight, only. Can't help on this one...

2. Is there a comparable program to Mathematica, or should I upgrade to a Mathematica Linux one?
***** No clue on this one either...

3. Are you aware of finance programs on Linux?
***** "Finance" being bookkeeping, as in accounts payable/receivable? Not sure, unless it comes inside OpenOffice, which is included on the Knoppix CD, or can be attained through a "package" that can be gotten - see below on "getting packages"

4. Why are there so many new releases of Linux?, Is there a need to keep ones Linux OS upgraded for the latest release?
***** "Flavors" I think is the term, Linux comes in many "flavors". Red Hat, Debian, Linux, Mandrake - mostly the "flavors" are for look and feel, or have some "customized" changes that take into account specific needs/systems - like Laptops, etc... (I think this is the answer)

5. Once installed, is it easy to upgrade through a CD (which can be burned from with a PC which has cable access)? & what do I need to do to upgrade?
***** Upgrading and Updateing is easily done through a commond. "apt-get", which can not only "update" current programs, libs, and other stuff, but, can "upgrade" the same to newer versions, and lastly, the command can also "get" new programs (called packages") from the numerous stockpile in the world, and install them, with any extra needed libs, etc... In one step. The whole process keeps track of "dependencies" of all the programs, and if an attempt is made to "stomp" (as it is known in the Windows World) - apt-get will allert you to this, before it lets something trash something already installed.

6. If I am assembling a PC/ buying one from a computer show, What are the things that I should look out for towards Linux & Windows PC.
***** First, WinModems - bad for Linux, good for WIndows - try and use an external (hardware) modem - the kind you plug into your seriel port in the back of the system - as for anything else - NEWER is not always BETTER - from what I hear, you want to buy hardware - video, sound, etc... what was "last years" latest and greatest - that way Linux developers have had the chance to get drivers, or add the support for them, into the OS. In other words, buying this years Super-Doper-Wiz-Bang-Top-Of-The-Line-Lightning-Speed Video Card, may not be supported in Linux, but may be supported in Windows. Nice on the pocket-book, though.

7. If I have a base Linux on PC, can I use different CDs to run other extra programs that I don’t want installed on a PC?
***** Hmmmm, sounds like a double-edged sword here - If you have, say a game, and want to play it, and it runs on the CD, it would depend on what OS it runs on - if it is Windows, you may need to try and work it through Wine, if it is DOS, no answer, if it is native Linux - yes.

8. If I use Linux PC, can I download Win programs onto Linux PC and run them using WINE?
***** Depends on the program. If it is something that requires a lot of Windows behind it, I would say, use Windows for it, it couldn't hurt to try Wine on it though. Worst case, it won't work, but, I am sure people here have many ways to get you to something other than Wine, that might get it to work.

Thanks a lot for taking your time to answer these questions.
***** No problem Art, hopefully I helped a little, on "some" of the answers. I am QUITE sure, others will additionally be posting responses. So, keep tuned :D

Cuddles

[fingers99]

1. Which is the best & easiest to install Linux distribution to work with Win2K programs ?

To working with Win2k programs, it really makes little odds. At some point you'll need to use something like Wine or one of the commercial offshoots of it. To work well with Win 2k you really need a fat32 rather than an ntfs filesystem, although this may have changed recently. 2 hard drives makes life easier.



2. Is there a comparable program to Mathematica, or should I upgrade to a Mathematica Linux one?

You may be able to run Mathematica through Wine. Otherwise, you'll need the Linux version.


3. Are you aware of finance programs on Linux?

Sage, and lots of others: I've no idea what you really want -- I'd be inclined to Google for this.


4. Why are there so many new releases of Linux?, Is there a need to keep ones Linux OS upgraded for the latest release?

Only if you need new features or security patches. Generally, Linux develops very rapidly and since there's not a lot of marketing involved new releases come out 2 or 3 times a year from major distros.


5. Once installed, is it easy to upgrade through a CD (which can be burned from with a PC which has cable access)? & what do I need to do to upgrade?

Depending on distro, it's easy enough to upgrade through diallup.


6. If I am assembling a PC/ buying one from a computer show, What are the things that I should look out for towards Linux & Windows PC.

External modem, lots of RAM, seperate video card (preferably AGP and nvidia).


7. If I have a base Linux on PC, can I use different CDs to run other extra programs that I don’t want installed on a PC?

It depends on the programs. As CD is read only, it's pretty difficult to do as most programs want to write to the media they are on. Generally, unless you want to master your own Knoppix (or Squeak) it's a bad idea. Anyway, hard drives are cheap!


8. If I use Linux PC, can I download Win programs onto Linux PC and run them using WINE?

Yes, but your mileage will vary. Codeweavers do a game version of Wine and an Office version of Wine. You really need to check them out. Of course, you can run Windows from within VM Ware inside Linux, but you'll need a reasonably modern machine with a lot of RAM to do this comfortably.

[art]

Thanks Cuddles & finger 99
I have a fair idea on what to do next. So it is easy to update the OS with only a diapup modem? That sounds good.

[windos_no_thanks]

2. Is there a comparable program to Mathematica, or should I upgrade to a Mathematica Linux one?

Maxima should do something similar, it is available for wimpdoze too so you can try it out even in your current setup.

http://maxima.sourceforge.net/

Haven't used Mathematica myself and only played with Maxima a little so I can't really say how they compare.

[windos_no_thanks]

External modem, lots of RAM, seperate video card (preferably AGP and nvidia).

I agree on the rest but why nvidia ? If I've undestood things correctly there are no open source drivers for their recent cards so you have to settle with some pre-compiled stuff that probably won't work when you upgrade the kernel & Xfree sometime in the future.

[art]

Thank Windos_no_thanks:
I took a look at the Maxima quite cool!. There are seven CD images of debain for installation. Why so many and do one install all of these CDs.?

Thanks,
Art

[fingers99]

I agree on the rest but why nvidia ?

Because the Open Source nv drivers are fine for 2D and the Closed Source ones are great for 3D.

While I'd prefer it if nvidia Open Sourced their drivers, the latest install routines make it pretty easy to remove, update and install them. For 3D in Linux, they're probably your best bet.

[fingers99]

There are seven CD images of debain for installation. Why so many and do one install all of these CDs.?

You'd probably not want to install everything.

But, remember, a hard drive install of Knoppix is Debian (and a later version than you'll get by just using the Debian CDs). It really is a wonderful attempt to make a Debian install use-friendly.

[Cuddles]

Art,

7 CD's is if you want "Debian's" tested, tried, and true - certified by Debian to be (close to perfect) - What you get with Knoppix IS debian, but at least a few revisions ahead of the Debian CD's.

Debian releases in three versions: Stable, Testing, and Unstable.

Knoppix is based on the Debian "Unstable" version, but has far more advancements, and additions since then.

Debian considers Stable to be tested, and (most, if not all) bug ridden, Testing is just that, the code has gone through Unstable and is being tested to becoming Stable. Now, Unstable, thats the one everyone gets so "wierded" out about. Unstable is not the literary word, but rather, the most "cutting edge" additions and code, awaiting Debian's "testing".

From what I heard, Knoppix too Debian's Unstable (way back when), and began working with it, adding more features, etc... and then released Knoppix. In either case, Knoppix is a working, valid, and far more advanced, than its Debian counterpart, which is not yet released by Debian.

I hope I got some of this right, some of it is from memory, and some of it, I have pieced together from bits and pieces of other information. By the way, "7" CD's would only be used if you wanted "everything", which, even in a Windows Install, you don't want "everything" that is on the CD's. Some of the data on CD's is (in the case of Windows) some videos, some audio, and some tips/tricks - I am sure in the Debian "7" CD set, some of the data is documentation, etc...

Cuddles

[art]

Cuddles:

Knoppix v3.4 tobe released in May will have auto install feature; and a 3 CD set is that correct? Are all programs on asingle Knoppix ver3.3 CD compressed as opposed to Debian or any other Distro? Knoppix works for me right nowon CD I was wondering which to install on HD.

Art

[Cuddles]

I do know that Knoppix does compress onto the CD, not sure, but I think it may be around 2 gig, squashed down to 700meg. (that would be around 3 non-compressed CD's)

Hmmm, I like Knoppix. (it IS Debian in fact)

About a month ago, I was considering what Linux to install, I had looked at Mandrake, Red Hat, Debian, and had been running Knoppix from just the CD.

I even posted, either in this forum, or it might have been in The Lounge, you can search for it if you want, but, I got a reply, why not use Knoppix - heck, you already have it in hand, you don't have to do anything else, buy, or download.

I went with that advice, and I can easily say, I don't regret it. It wasn't that difficult to install, and I have had a lot of "features" that the "others" have, and been able to install everything I find as packages/software. As far as I am concerned, I have, and am running, Debian - just a couple of revisions ahead of what "Debian" releases, and have not been worse for it.

Knoppix has a good selling feature, you try it, get used to it, and if you want to go "all the way" with it, you already have it in-hand. Kind of like those "crippled" shareware programs, you buy the key, and the "crippled" part is removed, nothing more to download, nothing to change, or get, in addition to what you already have. After having the "key", the full-blown program is miraculously made available. The Live CD of Knoppix is good, don't get me wrong, but after you install it to the hard drive, it opens up so many more, and such much more, avenues of itself.

Heck, I installed Knoppix, on my old system, on a seperate hard drive, a small 8 gig, alongside my 30gig that had Win98 on it. I did this unless I hosed Knoppix, or didn't like it, I could have easily blown the drive away, and gone back to using it for Windows. But, I liked it so much, I bought a new computer, with a 41gig hard drive and installed Knoppix only on it. I made sure that the new system had an external modem, and a seperate AGP video card slot, in case the motherboard video didn't work, or I didn't like it. Haven't (not too much) regretted the fact that Windows hasn't seen the light of day on this new system, and I can't tell you how long I have kept the new system running without rebooting it, or having any problems with resources, or lock-ups, or etc... Whereas, the old system, for the kids, has been daily requireing reboots just to reclaim lost resources, it went back to Win98, cause the kids are more familiar with it, and their games.

I have had as many as 15 programs running on my Knoppix installation - Xine (dvd player), three arcade games, email, web browser, etc... all without a problem, and when I closed down those programs, my resources were released, can't say the same for Windows, thats for sure.

Cuddles

[windos_no_thanks]

Because the Open Source nv drivers are fine for 2D and the Closed Source ones are great for 3D.

While I'd prefer it if nvidia Open Sourced their drivers, the latest install routines make it pretty easy to remove, update and install them. For 3D in Linux, they're probably your best bet.

Well, the 3D acceleration works nicely with on my Radeon Mobility 9000 based laptop with only open-source drivers, tuxracer works great :-D I'm sure you might be able to get along with using closed stuff too but when the vendor stops issuing new drivers you are stuck with the latest stuff that can use them. Unfortunately most of the new Radeons are not supported so ATI is not exactly a good alternative either... :-(

[Cuddles]

So, Windos_No_Thanks,

Considering a new video card, in my situation, I have an available AGP slot, the best options for someone wanting a good "accelerated" Linux video card, would be along the lines of a nvidia [sp], correct? From what I hear, they are supported pretty well, and give the best bang for the buck.

When we talk about anything in Linux, are we talking about the "chipset" on the device, or the manufacturer of the device? If we are talking about the chipset, how does one "know" that information, if one can not "inspect" the card/device out-of-the-box?

For those wanting to make "good" purchases for a Linux system, shouldn't we translate "chipset" devices into respective manufacturers, so that someone can "safely" buy something, and not get home to find what they just bought is useless????

I may even consider "yanking" out my ATI video from the old machine, let the kids deal with the Win98 system running games on the motherboard video, and putting the ATI into my new system - but then again, the ATI is a PCI, and I could do better if I use the AGP instead.

I'd like to get back to being able to play some of the "accelerated" video games in Linux again, but don't want to get "stung" with a bad purchase.

Oh well, I got to drop my systems, unpile the tower of cabinets, unhook the two systems, and open up my new system, TODAY I install the old 2.0gig Hard Drive that has Win98 already installed, maybe I can get that durn DOS program to run now - Sheesh, what a pain in the b*tt.

Back later,
Cuddles

[windos_no_thanks]

So, Windos_No_Thanks,

Considering a new video card, in my situation, I have an available AGP slot, the best options for someone wanting a good "accelerated" Linux video card, would be along the lines of a nvidia [sp], correct? From what I hear, they are supported pretty well, and give the best bang for the buck.

Currently there are two kinds of video chipset manufacturers: bad and worse ;-)
IMO nvidia is in the "worse" category, they don't seem to co-operate with open-source developers trying to develop accelerated drivers at all but provide some pre-compiled stuff instead. That means you probably won't be able to get any updates once they stop selling the particular model you've bought so you'll probably have to use old vestions of Xfree etc also.
(so new versions of your favourite OS distro might not work as expected)
If you are ok with that I guess you might consider nvidia, otherwise I'd suggest checking
http://dri.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/ to get some rough idea of if your card is supported or not. In the case of ati it seems like most models up to 9200 are supported at the moment.



When we talk about anything in Linux, are we talking about the "chipset" on the device, or the manufacturer of the device? If we are talking about the chipset, how does one "know" that information, if one can not "inspect" the card/device out-of-the-box?

For those wanting to make "good" purchases for a Linux system, shouldn't we translate "chipset" devices into respective manufacturers, so that someone can "safely" buy something, and not get home to find what they just bought is useless????


Yes, that can be tricky sometimes. If you can't find out the exact chipset of the card then just don't buy it (and tell the vendor that is the reason you won't buy it). If you are physically visiting a shop bring your knoppix cd and ask if you can try it out, it is always a big plus if they allow you to do that. :-)

[Stephen]

Currently there are two kinds of video chipset manufacturers: bad and worse ;-)
IMO nvidia is in the "worse" category, they don't seem to co-operate with open-source developers trying to develop accelerated drivers at all but provide some pre-compiled stuff instead. That means you probably won't be able to get any updates once they stop selling the particular model you've bought so you'll probably have to use old vestions of Xfree etc also.
(so new versions of your favourite OS distro might not work as expected)
If you are ok with that I guess you might consider nvidia, otherwise I'd suggest checking
http://dri.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/ to get some rough idea of if your card is supported or not. In the case of ati it seems like most models up to 9200 are supported at the moment.



Nvidia uses a unified driver which means they have all the supported cards serviced by the one driver and unless they start ripping out the support already built into the driver for cards they no longer sell then they will still be supported.