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probono
01-28-2004, 01:23 AM
klik allows you to install software by just klicking a button on the "point-and-klik software store".

klik is the easiest way to install software on Knoppix, even while running from CD. With a persistent home directory, you can even continue to use the software you installed after a reboot. Because one software package is always exactly just one directory within ~/, you can always delete software packages without any problems for other software.

Try it yourself: http://klik.sf.net/

eadz
01-28-2004, 01:43 AM
Hey, it happened! (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2067#9655)

Nice work :)

Maybe if you release the format people can make other ones, e.g. for nvidia or what have you.. would have a lot of questions here thats for sure!

probono
01-28-2004, 01:55 AM
eadz, great to have you as my first user! Nice to hear that it worked well.

Once things are tested thoroughly and working as I expect, there will be an easy interface for people to add their own applications. Basically I am thinking of a central database to store the install "recipes". Kinda "poor mans apt-get" ;)

In the meantime, stay tuned for more...

aay
01-28-2004, 04:07 AM
Outstanding! I'm looking forward to giving this a try. Putting this all on a web page is deffinately the way to go. This should be complemented by the additions to Knoppix 3.4



- Experiments with an overlay file system to allow easier on-the-fly
installations of new software and possibly eliminating the need of a
separate /ramdisk virtual partition.


This is from http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7162&start=0

Thanks again.

probono
01-28-2004, 04:13 AM
Great news. The overlay filesystem will make life much easier for klik. I hope many applications will be released this way.

probono
01-28-2004, 04:23 AM
Hey, the Knoppix community is blazing fast :roll:

klik is out for just a few hours now, and is already linked in Japan... wow
http://buxus.s31.xrea.com:8080/pukiwiki/pukiwiki.php?%5B%5BTools%2FUnofficial%5D%5D

The guys there even figured out some glitches with the latest Knoppix releases I will look into soon. In the meantime, please use KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-19 if you run into problems (NOT newer).

Please post your results here!

aay
01-28-2004, 06:07 AM
Ok, I've now tried Klik and it works great. I just used it to install Real 8 onto a live session using the CD. One suggestion: maybe click should put all installed programs under one directory in /home/usr. Putting them all in /home/usr/klik_apps or something like that would keep things a little neater. I'm looking forward to trying it out more. Can we submit klik recipies?

probono
01-28-2004, 06:42 AM
Of course you will be able to submit klik recipes. Right now, I am refining the format. It is my goal to make the recipes as generic as possible so that the developer of the recipe has little more to do than to insert some variables, such as the application name and the download locations. I will keep you updated.

aay
01-28-2004, 07:07 AM
I will keep you updated.

Please do as this is quite cool. I've now installed Jap, Real8, and Smbk4. After you feel comfortable with your refinements, it would be nice to submit Klik to Klaus so it could be included in Knoppix.

janmartin3
01-28-2004, 07:29 AM
E.g.
Opera,
Mozilla,
Firebird

Thanks,
Jan

eadz
01-28-2004, 07:34 AM
E.g.
Opera,
Mozilla,
Firebird


If you mean will it work on other browsers., the answer is no, it uses a KDE protocol, which is only avail in konqueoror.

P.s., 1st suggestion; after installing it, how bout opening up a konqueror to the page?

paradocs
01-28-2004, 08:27 AM
Hello all,

KLIK is a major advance for KNOPPIX live disk.
Thank you probono -- until you are better paid. :wink:

The instalations are saved and restored with persistent
home and my burn_home project -- which is a 2 CD version
of KNOPPIX.

I agree that a combined directory would be good --
just don't call it Program Files :!:
I have installed live CD installation scripts from kano and they
are placed in /home/knoppix/dist
http://kano.mipooh.net
I told him I did not think that folder name was user friendly.

But your approach of everyting in one folder is excellent.

I would be interested in trying a boot script from a floppy
that would pick up one or two instalations upon each boot.
But would that give you site too much unnecessary traffic?

The overlay file system will also be revolutionary.

How about calling you site:
klik KNOPPIX LIVE INSTALLER KINGDOM
or KNOPPIX LIVE INSTALLER KONSOLE

Best Wishes,
paradocs

probono
01-28-2004, 09:53 AM
I've now installed Jap, Real8, and Smbk4. After you feel comfortable with your refinements, it would be nice to submit Klik to Klaus so it could be included in Knoppix.

Thanks for your Kudos :)

Before we submit it for inclusion in Knoppix, we need to solve one problem: http://klik.berlios.de/ only contains the "klik recipes" on how to install software, not the actual software packages itself. These are downloaded from various sources throughout the internet. This is fine for many files, but some files tend to be highly "volatile". e. g. debian sid packages get updated once in a while and then become unavailable through the debian mirrors, which then breaks the "klik recipes". We then cannot simply use the newer packages because that often would break Knoppix dependencies. Therefore, we need a way to "archive" the packages we use in klik.

To put it short: We need server space with lots of fast bandwidth. Not for klik itself, but for some of the packages it installs. If anyone can help me out with this, please contact me.

Besides, "inclusion" in Knoppix is not really neccessary. The klik client is tiny, extremely easy to install, updated quite often, and useless without internet connection anyway. What should be included in Knoppix at some point in time, however, is a link to the klik homepage.

probono
01-28-2004, 10:09 AM
I agree that a combined directory would be good --
just don't call it Program Files :!:


If I did this, I would call it either klik or .klik - what would you like more? klik would be visible and therefore easier to locate for newbies, .klik would be more elegant and wouldn't clutter your home directory.

Why didn't I do this initially? It is important for me to make the user know that each application package (which can be one app or a set of related apps) is "encapsulated" in its own directory. Unlike kano's "dist" which essentially throws it all together and therefore makes it hard to debug and uninstall.


I would be interested in trying a boot script from a floppy
that would pick up one or two instalations upon each boot.
But would that give you site too much unnecessary traffic?


Why don't you .tar.gz your klik packages, burn them on cd and expand them in your knoppix.sh upon boot? Would be way faster...


The overlay file system will also be revolutionary.


Indeed!


how about calling you site:
klik KNOPPIX LIVE INSTALLER KINGDOM
or KNOPPIX LIVE INSTALLER KONSOLE


KLIK LIVE INSTALLER KDE
KLIK LIVE INSTALLER KNOPPIX
even though klik is not really limited to Knoppix nor KDE :D

probono
01-28-2004, 10:37 AM
If you mean will it work on other browsers., the answer is no, it uses a KDE protocol, which is only avail in konqueoror.

P.s., 1st suggestion; after installing it, how bout opening up a konqueror to the page?

Great idea, done.
Just install the client again to get the newest version.

Alextreme
01-28-2004, 11:25 AM
nice idea! I too have been following Kano's scripts, but this seems to be a neater solution (instead of directly depending on scripts). Kudos!

Ofcourse, the drawback of not being able to use it in Mozilla/Firebird is limiting, but I'll be sure to add it to my upcoming KDE version. Either way, I owe you one yet again ;-)

probono
01-28-2004, 11:56 AM
Ofcourse, the drawback of not being able to use it in Mozilla/Firebird is limiting, but I'll be sure to add it to my upcoming KDE version. Either way, I owe you one yet again ;-)

Thanks. Let's see how long it takes for SUN to take it over :wink:

As for Mozilla/Firebird: It could be made work in Mozilla/Firebird also, using http://mozex.mozdev.org/
It must be set up to make $HOME/.klik the handler for klik:/ links. However, including all the neccessary stuff would unneccessarily bloat the klik client setup since Konqueror is present in every KDE install anyway.

As for klik and Morphix: It is very likely that the "klik recipe" for each app has to be specifically rewritten for Morphix since Morphix tends to use other packages and therefore has other dependencies than Knoppix. I currently see no easy solution for this, but we can investigate it together.

Alextreme
01-28-2004, 12:16 PM
Interesting, hadn't yet seen mosex...

What I have been working on, is getting apt-get to work (dpkg already does, has been a long-standing issue), having scripts and a browser to do this might be more useful than using synaptic (ie. do _exactly_ what Click&Run does. I've been discussing this with a few Debian guys too, could be automated using the Trove hierarchy and an extra database. oh well, ranting on and on like usual...)

Still, I'll try it out in Morphix KDE a bit more. I'll keep in touch and let you know if there are any issues using klik :-)

(btw, Sun has been keeping contact, it feels like being the bug that is looked at by a mean kid with some huge looking glass ;-))

gowator
01-28-2004, 12:18 PM
This is VERY COOL!!!!

I know its still in devel but how about dividing tested/untested packages ??

How about an upload for packaged Deb's.... could we all contribute somehow by uploading any Debs into a testing area???

Congratulations :D

probono
01-28-2004, 12:29 PM
Alextreme, I also thought about apt-get and synaptic. But Knoppix ain't plain debian...

klik is planned to be extremely flexible, i. e. it currently can handle (by manually adopting more or less standardized "klik recipe" templates the format of which I will be refining) Shell-, KDE-, Java-, and even Windows-apps (using WINE, for an example try BibEdit from http://klik.berlios.de/). Windows apps will never(?) appear in apt-get... so do others...

klik is designed as a central page with a database and using server-side (PHP) includes for reusing code that occurs in several "klik recipes". I want to make possible for users to contribute their "recipes". One "recipe" is always built against one specific Knoppix release, so we *need* community effort for building recipes.

I want to make sure each "recipe" is checked and running flawless at least with one Knoppix release. If we use apt-get on the end-user side, that can not be guranteed, especially as the contents of the repositories change over time. Also, it is slow and bandwidth-consuming (must download the package index over the net each time.)

But apt-get can play an important game in helping the creator of a "klik recipe" to find out which packages are required for the "recipe".

probono
01-28-2004, 12:46 PM
This is VERY COOL!!!!

thanx!


I know its still in devel but how about dividing tested/untested packages ??

That is already the case. All packages currently are tested with KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-14 (even if they don't state that yet). I am working on more packages but these are not yet visible on the homepage.


How about an upload for packaged Deb's.... could we all contribute somehow by uploading any Debs into a testing area???

klik is not limited to .deb, it currently uses all kinds of archives and formats, fetching software that is already lying around the web. The klik homepage stores *no* actual software packages, just so-called "klik recipes" (scripts that tell the klik client how to install a app into a specific version of Knoppix). The main effort will be the creation of these "recipes". I am currently developing more or less standardized templates for these, but it will always require time and knowledge to create these "recipes". Your help on that will be greatly appreciated once the format is tested and reliable templates exist.


Congratulations :D

Thanks again!

mikekgr
01-28-2004, 01:05 PM
Dear probono,

congratulation for your exalent work !!!

Whare can find / download this program ???

Best Regards
Mike Kranidis

probono
01-28-2004, 01:21 PM
Whare can find / download this program ???

http://klik.berlios.de/

In order to install the klik client, run KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-14, press Alt-F2 and enter:

wget klik.berlios.de/client/install -O -|sh

The klik client then opens a window where you can point-and-klik to install the software packages.

janmartin3
01-28-2004, 01:32 PM
I don not think that it s a great idea to create a repository to archive outdated software packages to avoid breaking Knoppix dependencies.

Its hard to communicate that, to get webspace and bandwith for free.
And it would need a lot.

It would be better to create "virtual support groups" to update the recipes itself.

Just my two cent.

Besides that, its great, and I really would like to see the receipe for the "deCSS" files that are always missing in distribitions through to legal reasons.

Do you think it would be legal to provode the receipts, not the files itself?

janmartin

probono
01-28-2004, 01:50 PM
I don not think that it s a great idea to create a repository to archive outdated software packages to avoid breaking Knoppix dependencies. (...) It would be better to create "virtual support groups" to update the recipes itself.

It all depends on how active people turn out to be in creating and maintaining(!) recipes once that will be possible. Personally I am unable to update them all two days or so. But perhaps we can parse sites like http://www.rpmseek.com/ or http://www.alltheweb.com/?cat=ftp in the recipes so that the packages are tracked down automatically.


"deCSS" (...) Do you think it would be legal to provode the receipts, not the files itself?

First of all, I am not a lawyer. Additionally, the legal situation of deCSS is likely to be different depending on the country. But if linking to deCSS is legal, I see no reason why embedding the link (or even a search engine request for the file) in the "klik recipe" wouldn't.

gowator
01-28-2004, 02:03 PM
Sorry probono, Im at work on XP :UGGH
So I can't try it out.... Im just sat here waiting till hometime :D

I can't get internet access from anything except explorer here becuase of the way the proxy server is set-up.... So I can brwose my LAN from knoppix, synch my palm etc. (onto USB) but no Internet :x

BAH....

The linking sounds great, instead of holding anything :D even cooler, this allows I guess dvdcss etc as janmartin3 asks....

Im new to the deb world and apt is a big challenge...
(more what to do when deps go wrong... I wrecked my 1st install trying to force k3b >10)


On the same theme - some other license specific stuff could be added like qmail.... this is not officially deb becuase its source only distribution, its just a policy difference between the programmer and Debian.... but the debs are available elsewhere :D

Also the new NVIDIA driver is 'just' released (which I ain't tried yet)

Perhaps some of these 'tricky' installs would be perfect candidates get get some momentum going....

Your right, this depends 100% on the community....

IMHO you shouldn't handle Morphix et al because its up to them to write in compatibility. However one exciting area would be a USB stick install that use click to get all the packages that won't fit on a 64MB or 128MB dongle ???

Once AGAIN.... this REALLY is cool.....
I'm not against the Debian philosophy at all BUT it needs to be a philosophy of many.... Im now realsising how much superior Debian is to RH derived distro's.... and I guess it all goes back to a stable base....

To my mind knoppix is a great fork from this base and then gnoppix/morphix et al are forks from this......
Just as knoppix needs to maintain deb compatibility then so do these need to maintain knoppix compatibility.

The way to do this is getting it integrated into the regular 3.4 (if you still have time)

probono
01-28-2004, 03:11 PM
I have uploaded some information about the general design and architecture of the klik system: http://klik.berlios.de/architecture/

Now, let's work out the details together :)

probono
01-28-2004, 03:15 PM
Once AGAIN.... this REALLY is cool.....
I'm not against the Debian philosophy at all BUT it needs to be a philosophy of many.... Im now realsising how much superior Debian is to RH derived distro's.... and I guess it all goes back to a stable base....

I'm also not against the debian philosophy and and apt. It delivers a solid base system that serves as the foundation on top of which we can install additional (also non-free) software (using "dirty tricks" where needed). I would go a radical "hands-on" approach here. Nothing is to tricky as long as it works... :lol:

aay
01-28-2004, 04:24 PM
I have uploaded some information about the general design and architecture of the klik system: http://klik.berlios.de/architecture/

Now, let's work out the details together :)

Very good. As you get the time, go ahead and post some more info on klik's underpinnings as well as some code examples and I think we will all be willing to help.

Thanks again,

Adam

A. Jorge Garcia
01-28-2004, 04:47 PM
Wow, ProBono, nice system - it works great!

The only problem I had was I tried klik on a knoppix-installed as debian 20031119 PC and could not get the install program to work under ctrl-alt-F2. So, I logged-in as one of my users and tried knoppix-rootshell. Now everything works but everything is installed under the root dir.

Good Job,
AJG

Vick
01-28-2004, 04:51 PM
Where can we find an exemple of the klik recipe(DataBase) and how is it setup on the server :shock: ?

Can you show us one exemple please? or a link to download one?
Nice work :)

Fabianx
01-28-2004, 04:59 PM
Heh,

seems that we again did duplicate work, but my live-installer works with apt-get ...

Didn't you see the beta-test ANNOUNCE ?

Its also a one-click-warehouse and supports nvidia ...

and will be on _next_ (?) Knoppix ... (Klaus promised ...)

cu

Fabian

A. Jorge Garcia
01-28-2004, 05:03 PM
I just tried to install klik with a regular shell from one of my user accounts (not root) and all installed correctly and runs from the <K><apps(installed by klik)> menu.

VERY COOL!!!

Thanx,
AJG

probono
01-28-2004, 05:10 PM
Where can we find an exemple of the klik recipe(DataBase) and how is it setup on the server :shock: ?

Can you show us one exemple please? or a link to download one?
Nice work :)

I am working on a interface to see and add the recipes. The Idea is to have *one* central server (not like apt-get where you have many "inofficial" repositories) that hosts the recipes. This is all extremely new (just a few hours old) so please apologize I am not there yet. It will come soon.

probono
01-28-2004, 05:18 PM
seems that we again did duplicate work, but my live-installer works with apt-get ...

Fabian, I saw and tried it (didn't really get it running, though). Even though it tries to do similar things as does your script, klik uses a very different approach. Your scripts can even be nicely integrated into the klik store, as the flash example (it just runs your script from the user's CD locally) shows.

Fabianx
01-28-2004, 05:21 PM
seems that we again did duplicate work, but my live-installer works with apt-get ...

Fabian, I saw and tried it (didn't really get it running, though). Even though it tries to do similar things as does your script, klik uses a very different approach. Your scripts can even be nicely integrated into the klik store, as the flash example (it just runs your script from the user's CD locally) shows.

Yes, or vice versa ...

What I mean is the following:

What in my installer is called "module" is in your installer a "recipe" ...

So there is not much difference ... (Ok, yours works online, but mine could have integrated an online-update service as well ...)

cu

Fabian

PS: Ok, using different directories for software is a change .... :-)

Fabianx
01-28-2004, 05:28 PM
I've now installed Jap, Real8, and Smbk4. After you feel comfortable with your refinements, it would be nice to submit Klik to Klaus so it could be included in Knoppix.

Thanks for your Kudos :)

Before we submit it for inclusion in Knoppix, we need to solve one problem: http://klik.berlios.de/ only contains the "klik recipes" on how to install software, not the actual software packages itself. These are downloaded from various sources throughout the internet. This is fine for many files, but some files tend to be highly "volatile". e. g. debian sid packages get updated once in a while and then become unavailable through the debian mirrors, which then breaks the "klik recipes". We then cannot simply use the newer packages because that often would break Knoppix dependencies. Therefore, we need a way to "archive" the packages we use in klik.



That would be no problem, there is http://snapshot.debian.net/ it says it has all
packages since 2002/06/04 archived.

cu

Fabian

Fabianx
01-28-2004, 05:32 PM
Interesting, hadn't yet seen mosex...

What I have been working on, is getting apt-get to work (dpkg already does, has been a long-standing issue), having scripts and a browser to do this might be more useful than using synaptic (ie. do _exactly_ what Click&Run does. I've been discussing this with a few Debian guys too, could be automated using the Trove hierarchy and an extra database. oh well, ranting on and on like usual...)

Still, I'll try it out in Morphix KDE a bit more. I'll keep in touch and let you know if there are any issues using klik :-)

(btw, Sun has been keeping contact, it feels like being the bug that is looked at by a mean kid with some huge looking glass ;-))

Hey alextreme,

apt-get to get working is extremly easy with an wrapper ...

Please see modules/apt-get in _my_ live-installer:

http://debian.tu-bs.de/knoppix/live_inst/

and take some newer version ...

cu

Fabian

PS: Or just see: man apt-get last section ;-)

Vick
01-28-2004, 05:47 PM
Yes i see whats the point... but please i whant to know whats in the file! hum? lets say RealPlayer... so i can enderstand what it dose and then i can know how i can help you.

probono
01-28-2004, 05:51 PM
That would be no problem, there is http://snapshot.debian.net/ it says it has all
packages since 2002/06/04 archived.

That's *great* to know, Fabian. Now I am a bit more relaxed.

Do you have a reliable method to find out the exact Knoppix version, even if hd-installed?

Fabianx
01-28-2004, 06:27 PM
Hi,

instead of displaying "Only for Konqueror" make other browsers work and please use Xdialog instead of kdialog (as its KDE bloat and not compatible):

So heres how:

Create some script, which gives for mozilla & co the following:

<?
header("Content-Type: application/klik\n\n");
echo $_GET["run"];
?>

Display klik links like:

<a href=http://studwww.ira.uka.de/~s_franz2/klik/index.php?run=BibEdit>klik here to install BibEdit into your Knoppix 3.3 home directory</a>

Let user choose for this mimetype (better: do it automatically for mozilla, firebird, opera) ~/.klik2 with following:

#!/bin/bash

cat $1 | ~/.klik

Check for possible security flaws!!! (Also for konqueror! Perhaps use perl with -T ?)

Users kliks on link and it works with:

- asking him to choose an application (if he ckecks (or you) check box that it should always work this with that application it just works)

- Or directly works (after setup)

So thats my contribution.

You've won ;-)

Yours is not only user-friendly but also slick ...

What about making my live-installer be integrated into the klik-environment (Setting a certain cookie if installed) and then making that software also available ...

Or just making the live-installer available :-)

cu

Fabian

probono
01-28-2004, 07:01 PM
Yes i see whats the point... but please i whant to know whats in the file! hum? lets say RealPlayer... so i can enderstand what it dose and then i can know how i can help you.

I have posted a sample recipe along with comments on http://klik.berlios.de/architecture/recipe.php

probono
01-28-2004, 07:09 PM
Fabian, I have some reasons why I made *K*li*K* a *K* thing. For one, kdialog gets some really powerful new features soon (file and directory browsing,...). Second, the beauty of a link like klik:/BibEdit is that it is *really* easy to remember (and type - no need to go to the klik store page if you know what you want). Unlike (sorry to use your example, but it shows where this would lead to...) http://studwww.ira.uka.de/~s_franz2/klik/index.php?run=BibEdit

That's why I prefer the KDEized solution as it is now. But as always, discussion is open :)

gowator
01-28-2004, 07:10 PM
Ok so Im home, it works and its fantastic....

probono
01-28-2004, 07:18 PM
Check for possible security flaws!!! (Also for konqueror! Perhaps use perl with -T ?)

Yes, I am security-minded, too. The security check would have to go into the KDE klik protocol handler file. Can you help me on this please? I'm not such a unix guru that I could foresee most potential cracker attacks...

Btw, it's not about "winning". It's about user experience :) I know that you are the better coder (see Knoppix on Mac) - but I believe I think more from an end-user's perspective. Hope you accept this from me.

probono
01-28-2004, 07:19 PM
Ok so Im home, it works and its fantastic....

Nice to hear it is turning out to work so well already at its first day of existence :roll:

aay
01-28-2004, 07:59 PM
Yes i see whats the point... but please i whant to know whats in the file! hum? lets say RealPlayer... so i can enderstand what it dose and then i can know how i can help you.

I have posted a sample recipe along with comments on http://klik.berlios.de/architecture/recipe.php

Ok, it looks pretty straightforward and well commented. When I get the time, (which may take a little while right now), I look forward to trying to cook up some of my own recipes.

Vick
01-28-2004, 08:41 PM
can you please tell me how can i reproduce this locally at home to test this out?
need speical server script?
thank you

probono
01-28-2004, 09:08 PM
Ok, it looks pretty straightforward and well commented. When I get the time, (which may take a little while right now), I look forward to trying to cook up some of my own recipes.

ftp://ftp.planetmirror.com/pub/opera/linux/723/final/en/i386/static/opera-static_7.23-20031119.1-qt_en_i386.deb would be a good candidate to start with. I am pretty sure it can be made run fairly easily (actually it does run here... but M2 and plugins are not woking yet due to various path variables not properly set). Here the challenge is to write a working wrapper, because the variables it expects are a mess. Use the shell script /usr/bin/opera from the deb as a starting point for your wrapper.

probono
01-28-2004, 09:14 PM
can you please tell me how can i reproduce this locally at home to test this out?
need speical server script?
thank you

Actually, you don't need any server stuff to test a recipe at home. Just start with the sample recipe at http://klik.berlios.de/architecture/recipe.php. If you create a recipe file as it is described there (without server-side includes, of course) then you can run make it executable and run it from a shell. It should do all its magic locally as well!

Fabianx
01-28-2004, 09:54 PM
Fabian, I have some reasons why I made *K*li*K* a *K* thing. For one, kdialog gets some really powerful new features soon (file and directory browsing,...). Second, the beauty of a link like klik:/BibEdit is that it is *really* easy to remember (and type - no need to go to the klik store page if you know what you want). Unlike (sorry to use your example, but it shows where this would lead to...) http://studwww.ira.uka.de/~s_franz2/klik/index.php?run=BibEdit

That's why I prefer the KDEized solution as it is now. But as always, discussion is open :)

No, it would be:

http://klik.berlios.de/?run=BibEdit

Or:

http://klik.berlios.de/BibEdit

I don't think its difficult and it gives other distros the chance to use this ... (Your wine program isn't limited to KDE)

And to have it also on gnome ...

kdialog _sucks_ in my eyes as it is in no way compatible with dialog/Xdialog and has KDE as dependancy, which has the problems to limit the usage ...

The beauty of knoppix also it that it can be used (on remasters) with gnome, with icewm, and so on ...

And the Mozilla-Integration is as I've shown fairly easy ...

Talking about user-experience also includes imho to have transparency and the users choice ...

cu

Fabian

Fabianx
01-28-2004, 10:02 PM
Check for possible security flaws!!! (Also for konqueror! Perhaps use perl with -T ?)

Yes, I am security-minded, too. The security check would have to go into the KDE klik protocol handler file. Can you help me on this please? I'm not such a unix guru that I could foresee most potential cracker attacks...



Most potential is to get a shell to do certain commands ...

So I believe the check must go into ~/.klik ...



Btw, it's not about "winning". It's about user experience :) I know that you are the better coder (see Knoppix on Mac) - but I believe I think more from an end-user's perspective. Hope you accept this from me.

Well I had a terrible week with too less sleep (At the moment I can't sleep well and don't know why ...) and was working on my one also hard (last week) and then you come and give a better suited solution... :-(

Well and that Knoppix on Mac was nothing special ...

I nowadays don't have the time to work on it ...

Well the next project for you would be to improve the hd-installer ... :-)

I'm fairly sure, you can find many things that should be changed for end users ... :-(

Well, I think I'l retire :-) ;-) ..

cu

Fabian (a bit frustrated and overloaded with other work for study and writing again some articles ...) :-(

popuman
01-28-2004, 10:20 PM
kudos for klik. ran it and downloaded several apps. worked like a charm! keep up the good work!

A. Jorge Garcia
01-28-2004, 10:50 PM
OK, I have a pile of old PCs networked together. None of these PCs have working hdds, so with 128MB, a Pentium class motherboard and a bootable CDROM drive, I figured I'd network them together just booting off CDs.

Now my kids will kill me if klik doesn't work with some LAN party style games.

Can you please add some or all of the the following to the klik store?

bzflag
bzflag-server
freecraft
quake2
quake2-data
penguin-command (not LAN party, but good)

TIA,
AJG

probono
01-28-2004, 11:09 PM
Games are not so easy to make work unless the new Knoppix with overlay filesystem comes out. penguin-command, for example, just dies and says "Couldn't load /usr/share/games/penguin-command/gfx/icon.png". No wonder when it is all inside ~/PenguinCommand/...

For KDE apps, I have solved this problem by setting the KDEDIRS variable in the wrapper. Btw, does anyone know how to do the same for GNOME apps?

aay
01-29-2004, 05:38 AM
probono,

I am thinking about how to add the following packages to the klik repository.

ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/dists/stable/main/binary-i386/w32codecs_0.92-2_i386.deb
ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/mplayer-mozilla_1.2-0.0_i386.deb

The first package includes codecs for mplayer for such things as wma/v and quicktime. The second is a browser plugin for mozilla (which konq can also use) to be able to view/listen to streams that are embeded into the browser (as most quicktime and wma/v stuff is). I think these two packages would compliment your kpackage recipe quite well as they are pretty nice for checking out movie trailers and such. I toyed around with writing my own klik recipe, but these aren't really apps they are just various codecs and a browser plugin for mplayer/kplayer. This being the case, it might be better to add these to your kplayer recipe.

From what I can see the mplayer-mozilla plugin should simply be extracted to ~/.mozilla/plugins

Assuming that someone has used your kplayer recipe, the w32codecs should simply be placed in ~/KPlayer/usr/lib/win32

In any event this would really compliment kplayer/mplayer well. I'm just unsure about the way implement it. Write new recipies or add these to kplayer? Thoughts?

Adam

paradocs
01-29-2004, 06:54 AM
Greetings all,

Here is just a little shortcut I find useful.

On the KDE desktop right click --> create a new text file -->
name it KLIK --> open with an editor and add the two lines


#!/bin/bash
wget klik.berlios.de/client/install -O -|sh

save it --> right click properties --> Permissions-->
Check all Exec boxes

To reach klik just click it.

Thanks to eadz's suggestion konqueor opens.

P.s., 1st suggestion; after installing it, how bout opening up a konqueror to the page?

Hopefully kilk will have a nice place on the KNOPPIX menu.

Best Wishes,
paradocs

Fabianx
01-29-2004, 07:45 AM
Games are not so easy to make work unless the new Knoppix with overlay filesystem comes out. penguin-command, for example, just dies and says "Couldn't load /usr/share/games/penguin-command/gfx/icon.png". No wonder when it is all inside ~/PenguinCommand/...

For KDE apps, I have solved this problem by setting the KDEDIRS variable in the wrapper. Btw, does anyone know how to do the same for GNOME apps?

You can patch the binary ...

Yes, we did this all the way in Kanos and mine scripts and it did work quite well...#

for tuxkart for example:

perl -pi -e 's|/usr/share/games/tuxkart|./../share/games/tuxkart|' $DESTDIR/games/tuxkart

And it works ...

So add a line, patch ? ;-)

cu

Fabian

probono
01-29-2004, 11:37 AM
ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/dists/stable/main/binary-i386/w32codecs_0.92-2_i386.deb
ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/mplayer-mozilla_1.2-0.0_i386.deb
From what I can see the mplayer-mozilla plugin should simply be extracted to ~/.mozilla/plugins. Assuming that someone has used your kplayer recipe, the w32codecs should simply be placed in ~/KPlayer/usr/lib/win32

You are absolutely right, these should go into the kplayer recipe. I Tried to do this from the beginning, but I got the problem that I found no way to recognize mplayer/kplayer the libraries in ~/KPlayer/usr/lib/win32 - it seems to me mplayer has to be recompiled (which I won't do to just to change a path - every different username would do this again). If this is really the case we should write the mplayer developers so that they include a environment variable, e.g. $WIN32LIBS to be ckecked at runtime.

But as I read now from Fabian, it is possible to patch binaries... I always thought I needed to compile for this (since Kano does so most of the time). I will investigate this and then we could also have the win32 codecs :)

probono
01-29-2004, 11:43 AM
for tuxkart for example:

perl -pi -e 's|/usr/share/games/tuxkart|./../share/games/tuxkart|' $DESTDIR/games/tuxkart

And it works ...

So add a line, patch ? ;-)


Fabian, you are best!!! Thanks a lot :)
(No, I didn't really examine your code, sorry... will do)

Just for my understanding: would

cat $DESTDIR/games/tuxkart | sed s@/usr/share@../share@ > $DESTDIR/games/tuxkart.patched
also work or must it be perl?

gowator
01-29-2004, 12:16 PM
This is happening so fast.....

Just a general question from a user perspective as someone coming from the RPM world :D

Am I the only one who finds the shere numbers of deb packages confusing....
Im all for choice, its just the organisation of the packages isn't all that logical from a user perspective....

I have to admit, click n run solves this by the addition the 'aisles' which looking at klik shouldn't be a problem to implement.

Even for me with years of Linux experience and hence knowing more or less what I want its hard to find official debs classified and I rely on pre-knowledge of the package name and the good ole CLI....

What would be really cool are user reviews of the klik packages,
i.e. say you have a 'aisle' email servers then 30 choices a short user experience is a good thing. i.e. qmail-run or qmail or compile from source??? and thats just a single mail server??? - The user perspective on how this is better or worse than sendmail or postfix is important, it might only be the fact that its easier to configure in webmin or it could be it handles >1000 simultaneous users better....

the klik could then have a link to the klik recipee for webmin-qmail (very cool)

The next difficult part is the 'real install' as opposed to the user install in ~. Although the present apps can all be run from ~ not everything can, from servers to themes!!!!

I have a bee in my bonnet about distro's that modify the intended location of files (like KDE) and hence break everything else.

Next question is how to update the apt database with the fact this is installed ??? Again this rests on user/root install.

Obviously connecting and installing as root is a bit silly, so perhaps the klik should install an icon on the desktop which will then sudo to root for an install?

This then means or pre-supposed that a single desktop would need to be run for it to work, fairly obviously KDE at the moment.

This is IMHO tied in with the deps problem,
If the database can't resolve deps or apt comes back with a choice ... or in early stages if that deb isn't yet available in klik!!!!

I have every faith these are surmountable, but I thought better to bring it up now than later!!!

probono
01-29-2004, 07:17 PM
There is now a details page for each app with a screenshot, user comments, and the possibility to see the recipe.

http://klik.berlios.de/

probono
01-29-2004, 08:36 PM
Am I the only one who finds the shere numbers of deb packages confusing....
Im all for choice, its just the organisation of the packages isn't all that logical from a user perspective....

That's why the end user will never see any .deb packages if he uses klik. the klik recipes do all that magic stuff in the background. One klik link can, and in fact often does, download several .deb packages, or even .rpm or .tar.gz or whatever.


I have to admit, click n run solves this by the addition the 'aisles' which looking at klik shouldn't be a problem to implement.

That can be implemented absolutely easily, true. However, we should first try to categorize the software, perhaps using the TROVE software map that was suggested earlier.


What would be really cool are user reviews of the klik packages

Hey, just that was my priority for today :)


i.e. say you have a 'aisle' email servers then 30 choices a short user experience is a good thing. i.e. qmail-run or qmail or compile from source??? and thats just a single mail server??? - The user perspective on how this is better or worse than sendmail or postfix is important, it might only be the fact that its easier to configure in webmin or it could be it handles >1000 simultaneous users better....

For the typical klik user, KMail will be just fine ;) qmail compile from source... come on ;)


The next difficult part is the 'real install' as opposed to the user install in ~. Although the present apps can all be run from ~ not everything can, from servers to themes!!!!

We hope to make just that possible by patching the binaries. Remember, klik is designed to run with live cds. Situation might change with the availability of an overlay fs in Knoppix. But personally I prefer AppFolders... you simply cannot destroy anything on your system using AppFolders. That's great news for all the folks who don't want to fiddle around with "broken packages", "missing libraries" and alike.


I have a bee in my bonnet about distro's that modify the intended location of files (like KDE) and hence break everything else.

klik will break nothing because it all rests in ~/AppFolder. There are no dependencies allowed between AppFolders, otherwise all the mess would begin again. Each AppFolder has to be "self-contained".


Next question is how to update the apt database with the fact this is installed ??? Again this rests on user/root install.

klik is completely independent from the apt database. the apt database will not see apps installed through klik, and this is by design. The typical dialup Knoppix user running from CD does not really understand, want or need the apt database.


Obviously connecting and installing as root is a bit silly, so perhaps the klik should install an icon on the desktop which will then sudo to root for an install?

Why do you want to install as root? klik works completely in userland. klik needs *no* root provileges to install software since it installs everything in the user's home directory. (That way, every user can install what she wants on a multiuser setup.)



If the database can't resolve deps or apt comes back with a choice ... or in early stages if that deb isn't yet available in klik!!!!

That is also a reason why klik doesn't use the apt database. (The developer of a klik recipe can do so, however, in order to find out which packages his recipe needs to install.)

I hope I could clear up things a bit for you. klik is not designed to install a base system but just to install what is missing for some people on a live CD.

aay
01-29-2004, 09:12 PM
probono,

where do we submit our recipies?

probono
01-29-2004, 10:53 PM
probono,

where do we submit our recipies?

here: http://klik.berlios.de/?contribute=recipe

skyfaller
01-30-2004, 05:31 AM
Although I am a happy KDE user, I would also appreciate it if Klik didn't require KDE to work, because as Fabian said it's great how Knoppix can be remastered with different window managers, and there's no reason to leave distros such as Gnoppix out in the cold. I can understand if you personally are more comfortable with KDE stuff, but hopefully others from the community (such as Fabian) will step up to help you out. I would if I could, but I'm just a teenage noob :-D

probono
01-30-2004, 05:52 AM
there's no reason to leave distros such as Gnoppix out in the cold

Apps installed through klik are dependent of the underlying applications and libraries(!) that are available on Knoppix. Each klik recipe is built for a specific version of Knoppix. So if anyone would like to run app X on Gnoppix, he would need to make a specific Gnoppixified version of the klik recipe. I myself will go with mainstream Knoppix for now. Remember, this whole project is just a few hours old. It is my priority now to get things rolling so that people can contribute klik recipes. Should there be many people wanting to write klik recipes for Gnoppix, I sure would listen to them at a later point in time.

bfree
01-31-2004, 12:12 AM
Apps installed through klik are dependent of the underlying applications and libraries(!) that are available on Knoppix. Each klik recipe is built for a specific version of Knoppix.
The question is what about people running Knoppix on systems with minimal amounts of ram and hence not using KDE? Is there a real reason (i.e. not a factor of implementation and the youth of the project) why kilk isn't accessable from lynx in run-level 2? Now I realise I am pushing the boat out even further than others here, and perhaps I am missing something. What if someone wants to use klik to install software to get an otherwise unsupported video card up and running? Is their any technical reason why klik itself must depend on much more than a browser?

I hope the above doesn't read in any way negatively because it is not my intention in the slightest! I am just trying to point out another potential way it could be used. Also I appreciate that this is an incredibly young project, congratulations on making such a big splash, you deserve it and I hope you get the assistance required to make this work (i.e. to get recipies updated for new releases in a reasonable timeframe)!

probono
01-31-2004, 01:34 AM
The list of apps is growing... now I can sync my Pocket PC with Knoppix on my notebook via infrared... But since I have no other hardware to play with, I need your help on making this work more generally.

probono
01-31-2004, 01:34 AM
Is there a real reason (i.e. not a factor of implementation and the youth of the project) why kilk isn't accessable from lynx in run-level 2?

No.

But a klik so downstripped that would be accessible in run-level 2 would be simply called a "shell script", and it wouldn't give the "user experience" most people, including myself, like.

aay
01-31-2004, 02:40 AM
[quote=probono]
Is there a real reason (i.e. not a factor of implementation and the youth of the project) why kilk isn't accessable from lynx in run-level 2?

I can perhaps understand why there has been a desire to have klik switch from something like kdialog to xdialog so that it could be used in other WMs, but run-level 2???? There aren't even any text based apps in the klik store yet.

On another note, I'm working on a recepie, but keep getting errors - shows what a bad programer I am. Probono, I'll be contributing some recipies, but probably not till after the weekend. I'm quite busy. Keep up the good work.

aay
01-31-2004, 02:50 AM
The list of apps is growing... now I can sync my Pocket PC with Knoppix on my notebook via infrared... But since I have no other hardware to play with, I need your help on making this work more generally.

Cool. I'd like to try your recipe for SynCE-KDE later. I don't have infrared, but hopefully it will work via usb.

gowator
01-31-2004, 11:56 AM
It would be nice if it was capable of working with a HDD install.
I guess then you need to know what the user has previously installed and its a whole new ballgame.

A. Jorge Garcia
01-31-2004, 02:05 PM
I've tried it with and hdd install with no problem. The only exception was Apache which looks for the CD.

Regards,
AJG

probono
01-31-2004, 07:03 PM
I've tried it with and hdd install with no problem. The only exception was Apache which looks for the CD.

Apache should also work with hd installs as long as there is /etc/init.d/apache

bfree
01-31-2004, 11:35 PM
From: http://klik.berlios.de/architecture/
<blockquote>I am very interested in your comments about the klik architecture. It is important to get the design right in the first place (before it gets real messy).</blockquote>
What I was thinking was that rather than maintaing your own configuration system or choosing one front-end why not use debconf? It should be expected to be on KNOPPIX and similar systems (i.e. all debian based systems), however minimal, and it provides numerous interfaces (including kde since the end of december in unstable). Whatever default debconf system is chosen by the system will be used, and people creating recipies can save themselves recreating the wheel by embedding the dialog from debconf into klik when it is really required to ask the user questions (not too common for the target area), and perhaps even "stealing" far more from the preinst and postinst scripts! You can gain a lot, and is there any real expense? It just seems like the right tool for the job to me, but that's just my 0.00002c (that's about as much as it's worth)

However, all this being said what's far more important is working with what you have now, which is great for a most of the target users, and in particular getting the system (primarily chefs) to have an up to date Knoppix klik repository! Keep up the good work.

probono
02-01-2004, 12:29 AM
What I was thinking was that rather than maintaing your own configuration system or choosing one front-end why not use debconf?

Excellent suggestion, I did't know debconf, but I will look into it. But probably it will not make it into my recipes until the KDE debconf interface is default in Knoppix ;)


perhaps even "stealing" far more from the preinst and postinst scripts!

That was one of my next "todos" :)
This must be optional however since not all software is installed with .debs.

Snow
02-01-2004, 08:33 AM
So is the Point-and-Klik Software Store going to be set up like the Lindows CNR Ware House wher you will go to the PAKSS and find a program and klik on it and the PAK software will install it for you just like on this demo page?

probono
02-01-2004, 03:19 PM
So is the Point-and-Klik Software Store going to be set up like the Lindows CNR Ware House wher you will go to the PAKSS and find a program and klik on it

yes.

But how many packages will be there depends on how many "klik recipes" people contribute. I personally don't have the time to make 1001 recipes. klik is community effort driven, unlike Lindows CNR.

Btw, I added some new stuff recently.

Snow
02-01-2004, 05:28 PM
Thats fine.
I was just wondering how it was going to work.

gowator
02-01-2004, 06:58 PM
I've tried it with and hdd install with no problem. The only exception was Apache which looks for the CD.

Apache should also work with hd installs as long as there is /etc/init.d/apache

Well apache might but other services won't unless installed as root;
Like I said; it would be nice to be able to convert from userland to a real install but I can also see why not!

paradocs
02-02-2004, 03:43 AM
Hello all,

I would suggest an IRC channel on http://freenode.net
#klik

I am no expert in the open software movement
but should there be a GNU General Public License
statement on the KILK site?

I am submitting a recipe for a console application.

Best Wishes
paradocs

Vick
02-02-2004, 04:21 AM
If you want the community to collaborate in this project, it must be Licence GPL, and after that the project will start to grow rapidly in to a development collaborative, community effort.

If this is not GPL you wont get any effort from me and others of the community.

Be a winner, you are a winner. Make the winner move.
Make it GPL for a winning future ;)

Good luck!

# Open the door and you will start to see poeple come in!

probono
02-02-2004, 12:08 PM
If you want the community to collaborate in this project, it must be Licence GPL, and after that the project will start to grow rapidly in to a development collaborative, community effort.

If this is not GPL you wont get any effort from me and others of the community.

Be a winner, you are a winner. Make the winner move.
Make it GPL for a winning future ;)

Good luck!

# Open the door and you will start to see poeple come in!

If GPL'd it, how could we make sure there was *one* klik store and not 1001? ;) imho a LOT of its usability will come from the fact that there is ONE klik software store where ALL the apps are found.

How can we solve this? Make just the recipes GPL but not the klik client and the PHP server part?

Vick
02-02-2004, 03:42 PM
It dosen't matter if there is 1001 servers around the clock... we will not start collaborate on 1001 projects.
One thing matter here, the true klik server with knoppix. You see there is only on true knoppix.

To resolve what you think is a prob... is to stop thinking what others will do! And start focusing on what you want to do with yours, thats'it thats all, and we will follow.

Make it all GPL if you are a true winner :idea:

gowator
02-03-2004, 12:19 PM
Basically I think you need to talk to knopper....
If its included then it should be GPL....
If its included on the CD it really doesn't matter a hoot if someone tries to fork because basically its the one on the CD....

However, since you don't wanna support HD install (and I understand why) then it should be GPL so someone else can have a go :D

probono
02-03-2004, 02:55 PM
Basically I think you need to talk to knopper.... If its included then it should be GPL....

well, since klik is mainly a website it doesn't have to be "included" - what maybe could be included is a link to the klik store.



However, since you don't wanna support HD install (and I understand why) then it should be GPL so someone else can have a go :D

I'll think about it thoroughly. Probably I will go GPL for most parts, I'll keep you updated.

daan
02-03-2004, 03:40 PM
Why does KLIK not work when using the HD install?

gowator
02-03-2004, 04:01 PM
Its not that it doesn't work per se
when you install to HDD you change some stuff and it basically beomes a customised pre-configured debian but mainly your FREE to permanantly add packages.

When you install more packages you do so as root with apt-get or kpackage whatever.

This writes packages to certain places, some of which your knoppix account or other user accounts won't have access to.

Some programs, especially servers need root access to start or run.
Also when you add these they are added to your init.d and started everytime you boot.

You can create persitent home and even with a bit of imagination copy these every time to the correct place after booting from a normal Cd or even remaster your own Cd. But thats NOT a standard knoppix anymore.

Whats important is the order of things!
Take a typical server running DHCP, BIND, apache with php and mysql and also routing.
These must be started in the right order....
Non of them (except mysql) could be started without the network interface up.
bind must be started before dhcp if you want the pc's that attach to bind to the default route. etc etc. if your routing then you must start IP tables before bind etc

apache can start right at the end,

klik and run is a 'userland' installer. It just installs the stuff for that user so its limited but only in the same way as a normal LIVE cd.



klik and run works on the premise that you have a standard knoppix, it even needs to know the version....
The applications are installed in your home and run from there.

so basically if you install to HD your NOT the same as the standard but it will work well enough mostly.
However, if you change an app in apt-get and it modifes libraries these might not be compatible. so it might not run!!!

antenna
02-03-2004, 06:34 PM
I haven't seen this mentioned yet: Has anyone here ever heard of zero-install?

http://zero-install.sourceforge.net/

probono
02-03-2004, 07:55 PM
http://zero-install.sourceforge.net/

Sounds extremely interesting, but you have to recompile the kernel and use rox.

antenna
02-03-2004, 08:30 PM
Sounds extremely interesting, but you have to recompile the kernel and use rox.

Yes, the kernel module is a bit off-putting, but I don't think that you have to use rox.

Your solution seems much simpler, but limited to one distribution and DE. Not that there's anything wrong with that. The zero-install system seems a little less narrowly focused, at the expense of installation complexity.

I think that both solutions are wonderful explorations of new ideas, and my hat is off to you.

What seems most similar to me about both projects is the use of AppDirs. Do you use a similar format to the rox AppDirs?

probono
02-03-2004, 09:00 PM
What seems most similar to me about both projects is the use of AppDirs. Do you use a similar format to the rox AppDirs?

This would be a good idea indeed, so we should examine their AppFolder format. I am so terribly bad at recompiling kernels however that I will have to see how I can get a working installation of Zeroinstall. In principle, it should be even possible to combine klik and Zeroinstall, i. e. use a klik recipe that calls Zeroinstall "behind the scenes".

antenna
02-03-2004, 09:40 PM
This would be a good idea indeed, so we should examine their AppFolder format.

There's some info here:
http://rox.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/AppDir


In principle, it should be even possible to combine klik and Zeroinstall, i. e. use a klik recipe that calls Zeroinstall "behind the scenes".

Yeah, and then you have the benefit of installing apps from a URL, which is something that zero install doesn't seem to have at the moment.

This stuff is so cool.

kwadroke
02-04-2004, 01:52 AM
Does klik work with KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-19 or just KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-14? I tried adding klik to my remaster (based off of KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-19) and was able to install using "wget klik.berlios.de/client/install -O -|sh" but was unable to get any apps to 'install'.

Also, how about a dialog box that would ask if you wanted to Reinstall if you ran the "wget klik.berlios.de/client/install -O -|sh" if it found to be already installed.
A 'wizard' for creating your own recipes would be nice (in PHP or bash/kdialog, or whatever). It should help get more recipes out quicker, for basic programs, of course.

xav
02-04-2004, 11:45 AM
Does klik work with KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-19 or just KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-14? I tried adding klik to my remaster (based off of KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-19) and was able to install using "wget klik.berlios.de/client/install -O -|sh" but was unable to get any apps to 'install'.

I had the same problem with a stock KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-19 download. Personally I would like to see a dialogue that informs you that your Knoppix version does not match, rather than just doing nothing at all. Preferably it would also have an option to try anyway, ignoring the difference in version numbers - because I'm sure that Knoppix can't have changed so much between -11-14 and -11-19 that most of the recipes wouldn't work.

probono
02-04-2004, 02:23 PM
Does klik work with KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-19

It should. I didn't really test it, though.


I tried adding klik to my remaster (based off of KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-19) and was able to install using "wget klik.berlios.de/client/install -O -|sh" but was unable to get any apps to 'install'.

What happens if you run your remaster and *then* install the klik client as needed? This is the preferred method since the client itself is subject to frequent upgrades - then you would have to remaster again.



Also, how about a dialog box that would ask if you wanted to Reinstall if you ran the "wget klik.berlios.de/client/install -O -|sh" if it found to be already installed.

Not really neccessary since a reinstall of the client always does an update. It's just a few KBs, though :)



A 'wizard' for creating your own recipes would be nice (in PHP or bash/kdialog, or whatever). It should help get more recipes out quicker, for basic programs, of course.

This idea also came to my mind. We can even go one step further: Eventually it could be possible (for KDE applications I already know how to do it but not for others) to have a fully-automated online server-side recipe generator using the debian repositories. The end user wouldn't need to notice the on-the-fly-recipe-generation at all. All apt-get database querying stuff would run server-side, so it would not be neccessary to mess around with apt-get on the client side. I will come back to this idea once I also have a method for gtk apps and others.

probono
02-04-2004, 02:27 PM
I had the same problem with a stock KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-19 download. Personally I would like to see a dialogue that informs you that your Knoppix version does not match, rather than just doing nothing at all.

Well, it *does* try to install even version do not match. You can try to run ~/AppFolder/wrapper from the console to see what goes wrong. Eventually, you are able to fix it for your version then.

Currently my main goal is to find out what works where and what not, so I don't want be too restrictive when it comes to versions. As things mature, of course we should add a warning as you suggested. Additionally, there are the "user comments" on the store where you can report how it went with your version. This kind of user feedback could be integrated automatically into the recipe generator in the future.

xav
02-04-2004, 02:44 PM
Currently my main goal is to find out what works where and what not, so I don't want be too restrictive when it comes to versions. As things mature, of course we should add a warning as you suggested.

I think some sort of warning would be a good idea to implement sooner rather than later. I spent quite some time last night installing and reinstalling the KliK software and trying to get several different recipes (in case there was a problem with a particular recipe). It took me some time to realise that my problem was probably just due to the Knoppix version I was using. I don't mind having wasted a bit of time on this, but someone else might just assume that the system is broken and dismiss it too easily. At least a warning would let them know that if it doesn't work, there is a reason why.

kwadroke
02-04-2004, 03:36 PM
What happens if you run your remaster and *then* install the klik client as needed? This is the preferred method since the client itself is subject to frequent upgrades - then you would have to remaster again.
Actually I just have an icon on the desktop for the "wget klik.berlios.de/client/install -O -|sh" command, so if a new version of the script is on the server, it will grab it. I have also tried running it from konsole with the same results. The program installs & brings up the application window, but when I click on the program to 'install' and nothing happens. I did do a 'apt-get upgrade' on my remaster so something may have broke.
As far as my "Wizard" idea goes, I got off my lazy butt & started creating a php script to do this. It's nowhere near working yet, but I am working on it.

probono
02-04-2004, 06:15 PM
The program installs & brings up the application window, but when I click on the program to 'install' and nothing happens.

Please check whether it works in the original Knoppix you used as a base for your remaster. If it does, the packages in your remaster ("apt-get upgrade") are incompatible with the respective klik recipe you are using to run.


As far as my "Wizard" idea goes, I got off my lazy butt & started creating a php script to do this. It's nowhere near working yet, but I am working on it.

Great! :) Some ideas I had on this:
apt-get should run on the server. You can access apt-get through php (exec, I think). Now, at least for KDE apps, there is all you need: Let the PHP page call apt-get to display the available packages and to create the list of URLs to be included in the recipe (but always make sure you are using http://snapshot.debian.net/ with the date matching to the Knoppix version you want to generate the klik script for, e.g. http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/2003/11/14/debian/pool for KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-14, otherwise you might end up in broken packages and/or too many packages downloaded and broken URLs in the recipe - thanks Fabrian for this hint). Then, let the server extract the neccessary meta information for the klik recipe from the deb package. Finally, let PHP write the klik recipe. Should all be possible without too much hassle. HOWEVER this takes only into account the apps that were in unstable at the point of time the Knoppix version you are writing for was available. If you want more recent apps to run, you will possibly have to hand-write your recipe anyway, sometimes even using "dirty" sources such as Fedora RPMs and the like.

If it all works, it will be coooooooool :)

If you need some script snippets for the apt-get server side part I am talking about, drop me a line. I have them here (for my local use, not yet embedded into php, however).

probono
02-04-2004, 06:21 PM
It took me some time to realise that my problem was probably just due to the Knoppix version I was using.

Sorry about that. I have bolded the KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-14 on the homepage as a quick fix. Don't want to rewrite all the recipes right now ;) (this shows that all such generic stuff should be handled by php-includes server-side in the recipes to make it easy to change just one include file instead of x recipes...)

paradocs
02-05-2004, 11:33 AM
Hi probono,

Has someting changed with install?

I must be snafu time.
( I don't use bad language -- this is a proper
US military term ;-))

KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-19 appears to run install but
It does not work now.
This worked without problem yesterday??

It is expected that some app's won't work smoothly from
version to version -- but surely the installer will install itself.
I expect some install script changes are being made.

Hmmm with multiple installs I get .klik .klik.1 .klik.2

We are standing by.

Best Wishes
paradocs

probono
02-05-2004, 11:39 AM
Hi probono,
Has someting changed with install?

Hi paradocs, nope - nothing has changed with the install in the last few days. I tried it 5 secs ago and it worked as always. Please run the install command in konsole, perhaps you can see what goes wrong. Maybe berlios.de just had a server problem at the time when you tried?

paradocs
02-05-2004, 11:54 AM
Hi probono,

do you do IRC #klik on freenode ?

Must be a server problem.

Best Wishes
paradocs

probono
02-05-2004, 01:53 PM
do you do IRC #klik on freenode ?

I have done so. :)

kwadroke
02-05-2004, 07:57 PM
Please check whether it works in the original Knoppix you used as a base for your remaster.

This is what I get when I run klik from konsole on the official KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-19:

knoppix@ttyp0[knoppix]$ /home/knoppix/.klik
/home/knoppix/.klik: No such file or directory: shell has changed!

The file is there (I ran 'ls -a'). As I stated before, the wget script installs but doen't allow me to 'install' apps.

probono
02-06-2004, 12:37 PM
knoppix@ttyp0[knoppix]$ /home/knoppix/.klik /home/knoppix/.klik: No such file or directory: shell has changed!

Please reinstall your client. I could fix this bug.

kwadroke
02-06-2004, 03:20 PM
Please reinstall your client.
Tried that. no luck. I even deleted the .klik file just in case.
Running the same command on 2003-11-14 works fine.

probono
02-06-2004, 03:30 PM
Tried that. no luck. I even deleted the .klik file just in case.
Running the same command on 2003-11-14 works fine.

Sorry about that. That must be obviously a very bad bug, I will investigate this, but I cannot promise a quick solution.

Btw, if there are people out here who seriously want to join the klik team and are willing to spend some time on this, please leave a message.

Snow
02-08-2004, 07:15 AM
Is there another point-and klik sofware store other than this one (http://klik.berlios.de/?from=profile)?
The programs in it are not changing IE there are no new ones being added. I see people saying that they have added programs here and there. So I'm guessing I'm looking in the wrong place for new Point-and-Klik software.

I think this is going to be a huge boon for Knoppix and Linux as a whole.

I'd like to be able to tell more people about this and maybe stir up some more interest in Linux in the area but untill I know where to point people to show them where new software is being put and where it can be PAKed from, I feel stuck.

daan
02-08-2004, 10:08 AM
I still find it strange. As I burned Knoppix-19, Klik worked perfectly fine. Realplayer, Flash, KPlayer, BibEdit, they all worked.
After I did the HD install, I could still install KLIK, but when I then clicked a program, the klik program seemed to do nothing - the startup notification was shown for about 1/10 second and then nothing.
Is this because of the HD install, or that I just happened to do the HD install while you have made a script change that made it incompatible with knoppix-19?

probono
02-08-2004, 12:04 PM
Is there another point-and klik sofware store other than this one (http://klik.berlios.de/?from=profile)?

I hope not. IMHO a *lot* of klik's usability comes from the fact that there is *one* store.

I hope people who want to add programs use http://klik.berlios.de/?contribute=recipe - until now, that was not used excessively, though. You can see what was contributed at http://klik.berlios.de/contrib/


I think this is going to be a huge boon for Knoppix and Linux as a whole. I'd like to be able to tell more people about this and maybe stir up some more interest in Linux in the area but untill I know where to point people to show them where new software is being put and where it can be PAKed from, I feel stuck.

Maybe that's just a little bit early. We should set up a "real" store like Lindows CNR with categories, faq and stuff. But before that, we need working "general" recipes for at least KDE (partially done), GNOME and konsole apps.

Also there is still the idea around to have an automated server-side recipe generator... that would instantly give us hundreds, if not thousands of apps... :) Please contact me if you are a PHP and shell wizard and want to join.

probono
02-08-2004, 12:07 PM
As I burned Knoppix-19, Klik worked perfectly fine. After I did the HD install, (...) the klik program seemed to do nothing

That was a bad bug in the client and I _hope_ it is fixed since today. Unfortunately, I don't have a zoo of test machines to play with ;)

Snow
02-08-2004, 05:11 PM
Is there another point-and klik sofware store other than this one (http://klik.berlios.de/?from=profile)?

I hope not. IMHO a *lot* of klik's usability comes from the fact that there is *one* store.

I hope people who want to add programs use http://klik.berlios.de/?contribute=recipe - until now, that was not used excessively, though. You can see what was contributed at http://klik.berlios.de/contrib/


I think this is going to be a huge boon for Knoppix and Linux as a whole. I'd like to be able to tell more people about this and maybe stir up some more interest in Linux in the area but untill I know where to point people to show them where new software is being put and where it can be PAKed from, I feel stuck.

Maybe that's just a little bit early. We should set up a "real" store like Lindows CNR with categories, faq and stuff. But before that, we need working "general" recipes for at least KDE (partially done), GNOME and konsole apps.

Also there is still the idea around to have an automated server-side recipe generator... that would instantly give us hundreds, if not thousands of apps... :) Please contact me if you are a PHP and shell wizard and want to join.

I realy wish I could help but I dont know Linux any farther than click and watch it do something. I am still vary much a Linux nube and have no one to learn from.

I did notice that some of the contributed programs like mplayer are not in the PAK SS. I klicked on it from your link and it did nothing. So I'm guessing that you can only PAK from the SS. So there must be a broken link to it for mplayer because it is not there.

probono
02-08-2004, 11:00 PM
I did notice that some of the contributed programs like mplayer are not in the PAK SS. I klicked on it from your link and it did nothing. So I'm guessing that you can only PAK from the SS. So there must be a broken link to it for mplayer because it is not there.

mplayer is part of the klik kplayer download!

probono
02-08-2004, 11:01 PM
to the contributor who uploaded kmplayer: the file was empty...

probono
02-08-2004, 11:02 PM
After I did the HD install, I could still install KLIK, but when I then clicked a program, the klik program seemed to do nothing

I hope this is really fixed now if you reinstall the client. Btw, just tried to install RealPlayer on Knoppix 3.4 c't edition: Success... :)

Discerner0
02-08-2004, 11:34 PM
I think this is going to be a huge boon for Knoppix and Linux as a whole. I'd like to be able to tell more people about this and maybe stir up some more interest in Linux in the area but until I know where to point people to show them where new software is being put and where it can be PAKed from, I feel stuck.

<...>

I really wish I could help but I don't know Linux any farther than click and watch it do something. I am still very much a Linux nube and have no one to learn from.


That's pretty much the way I feel. I think that Linux + Knoppix + klik = a revolution in the way operating systems and applications are done. I wish there were some substantial way I could contribute.

paradocs
02-09-2004, 04:11 AM
Hi Discerner0,

Besides a community of recipe builders --
how about support from users who can
suggest the best "killer applications" that
should be included on klik early on?

Lets not just get a dump of everyones all time
want list -- but the best to demonstrate
the benifits of klik to the targeted user.

Hi probono -- would this be better in another
thread?

Best Wishes
paradocs

Discerner0
02-09-2004, 05:54 AM
I could use a one-click VHS-to-DVD application.

I bought a Hauppauge PVR-350 TV tuner PCI card, which has a hardware MPEG-2 encoder on the board, to transfer my VHS home movies to DVD. The software that came with it has something like "straight-to-DVD" but doesn't actually do that. Instead it records to the hard drive first, then burns it on a DVD. It also has an awful lot of options and settings which are new to my vocabulary, and no dictionary.

I don't see why it isn't possible to record straight to DVD+R or +RW from the output of the PVR-350, as long as I have the right DVD burner and enough RAM. Maybe the DVD format requirements prevent it or something, but if it can be done a klik-recipe for it would be great.

I don't want to have to become an expert in making DVDs just to transfer my home movies to DVD and I suspect there are millions like me. Knoppix + the right hardware + klik might do it with less hassle than the commercial software I've tried. For the non-geeks among us that would be a good thing, and a huge boost for Linux and Knoppix and klik.

2-10-04: Perhaps Morphix is a better way to go? The whole application would be a single download-and-burn-to-CD, rather than having to go to the extra steps of klik etc, from Knoppix...

fil
02-09-2004, 11:59 AM
Before we submit it for inclusion in Knoppix, we need to solve one problem: http://klik.berlios.de/ only contains the "klik recipes" on how to install software, not the actual software packages itself. These are downloaded from various sources throughout the internet. This is fine for many files, but some files tend to be highly "volatile". e. g. debian sid packages get updated once in a while and then become unavailable through the debian mirrors, which then breaks the "klik recipes". We then cannot simply use the newer packages because that often would break Knoppix dependencies. Therefore, we need a way to "archive" the packages we use in klik.


Yeah, we have the same problem with the Debian jigdo files that are used for creating the CD images. The solution we use is to have a Debian server that has a full mirror already create a snapshot area to go with the jigdos, like this one on my server:

http://non-us.cdimage.debian.org/jigdo-area/3.0_r2/snapshot/

which is actually very space efficient, because it is created using hard links, so only uses space for the files that subsequently get deleted.

I would set this up for you on my server (which has > 160GB spare, and 100Mbit/s bandwidth) but I could only contemplate that if Klik was released as Free Software --- cannot have an official Debian & GNU mirror supporting non-free software really, I'm afraid.

I don't really follow the comment about there being 1001 servers being a bad thing. Why would it be bad for Debian to start adding Klik recipes to official packages, and have both the klik repository, and the required snapshots be maintained at, for example http://klik.debian.org/

Vick
02-10-2004, 04:57 AM
Your are starting in a bad move... you know (win win) or (lose lose) or (win lose) deals. Well your are doing a lose lose project, by starting with a closed or semi closed project that shud not be open to all, that is very bad news for all us knoppix dev and users, the place for a project the way you want it to be, is not the good place for it here.

I told you already make a win win move, make it GPL, and start focusing global with knoppix.

If you are to make it non gpl, then go away with your crap far from us, its insulting the community.

On what i'm starting to see you're are not a winner, from now you are profiting from innocent contributers.

I dont know why people dont open there eyes and stop contributing to scrips or programs that are mining or future and closing it bite by bite. Please stop!, stop! and open your eyes.

It is still time to change your plans dont be blinded by false illusionist (Mirage).

The future is open, the future is freedom, the future is us the open source community and dont forget that.

PS: dont forget that all the code you are using come from the open source, you can use it because it's gpl.

What you done is not an innovation, it already exist and used by stupid closed projects.

An innovation is sumting new, creating something out of nothing.

innovation :
1. The act of innovating; introduction of something new, in
customs, rites, etc.

2. A change effected by innovating; a change in customs;
something new, and contrary to ESTABLISHED customs,
manners, or rites.

You want innovation, then do it the gpl way and not like all others STUPID closed, restrictive rules.

Stephen
02-10-2004, 05:13 AM
Your are starting in a bad move... you know (win win) or (lose lose) or (win lose) deals. Well your are doing a lose lose project, by starting with a closed or semi closed project that shud not be open to all, that is very bad news for all us knoppix dev and users, the place for a project the way you want it to be, is not the good place for it here.

[snip]
whole bunch of bs.



I don't know what you are trying to accomplish with this foolishness but if probono chooses to release any of his software under any type of license that is his choice not yours and you are free not to use it if you disagree with that choice. He only released this a little over a week ago so give him so time to figure out what's going on with the idea before you start spouting off.

Discerner0
02-10-2004, 05:21 AM
Whoa, Vick. I'm behind you all the way if you are talking about the value to society of free software, but you need to be more specific. What post do you refer to?

probono
02-10-2004, 11:50 AM
Since this is the "News" forum, we should continue our discussion about the future of klik in this place: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=36436

imthefrizzlefry
02-11-2004, 09:54 AM
Probono writes:

"klik recipes...not the actual software packages...are downloaded from various sources throughout the internet...some files tend to be highly volatile."
and
"To put it short: We need server space with lots of fast bandwidth. Not for klik itself, but for some of the packages it installs."


I think that both of these problems could be confronted by useing a bit-torrent approach to the matter. EX: "klik recipe"= *.torrent file. then by propogating through the bit-torrent network, you loose the volitility rate and the need for expensive server space, but i suppose easier said than done... right?

gowator
02-12-2004, 02:21 PM
Firstly, like stephen says, give the boy some time!!!

Secondly.... the GPL isn't the ONLY license

Thirdly.
Well its a bit more complex but it involves a lot of plus and minus....
Should click include non-free and non-official debian packages!!
I personally beleive YES but I don't think its a simple question....
in particualr these are the ones most troublesome for the intended audience of klick!!!

fourthly, well until it reaches critical mass its not going anywhere
and pronobo might consider that he will get more help if it is GPL.

but ranting isn't going to help!!!!

probono
02-15-2004, 02:48 PM
klik is going GPL
http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=37105#37105

Craig2
02-23-2004, 03:46 AM
I installed klik, and then installed quanta. I get the quanta splash screen for about a second, then get this:

knoppix@ttyp2[knoppix]$ /home/knoppix//Quanta/wrapper
QGDict::hashKeyString: Invalid null key
TagAction::property( "accel" ) failed: property invalid or does not exist
TagAction::property( "accel" ) failed: property invalid or does not exist
TagAction::property( "accel" ) failed: property invalid or does not exist
quanta: relocation error: quanta: undefined symbol: _ZNK7QString3argExii

I wouldn't know where to begin figuring out what the problem is. I checked Quanta mailing list archives with no luck. Is this a Quanta issue, or a klik issue? Thanks.

One other program I tried a while back when I installed klik the first time (when it first came out) worked, I can't remember the name of it right now.

Thanks for the effort to all.

ps, what is the install method (command) to use for installing to hd now? And is support for separate partitions part of the installer yet? Links?

kovk
02-23-2004, 11:39 PM
I love this klik system and I've used it on several computers however I have a concern. Couldn't this code be malicously used on web sites? Is it possible to supress the dialogs so you can't see they are installing something? This system is great, but we gotta make sure we don't end up making konqeror into the next IE.

If it already is "secure" I guess we've got a great system here. Otherwise, what can we do to keep people from silently installing trojans?

probono
02-24-2004, 05:13 PM
knoppix@ttyp2[knoppix]$ /home/knoppix//Quanta/wrapper
QGDict::hashKeyString:

Thanks for the info, I'll investigate this. Right now, I'm on vacation, but I'll come back to it.

probono
02-24-2004, 05:17 PM
I love this klik system and I've used it on several computers however I have a concern. Couldn't this code be malicously used on web sites?

klik itself: I hope not. I tried hard to make it as secure as I could. But I am not an expert in this.

Variants of klik (re-implementations): Definitely. Anyone can code something alike that will NOT show any dialogs. But that re-implementation would have to be installed by the user, right?

Btw,
please continue the discussion in the "ideas" forum ("the future of klik") - this is the _news_ section. Thanks

bob58
03-23-2004, 11:27 PM
Hello....I get a "Protocol not supported" error by klik when I try to download a program. I did install the klik client but it doesnt work.....any ideas ???? bob

paradocs
03-25-2004, 04:24 AM
Hi bob58

I think you may not be using KNOPPIX or KANOTIX.
What version are you using -- from a shell type
uname -a

I think a present klik does not work with others
since testing so many system is too hard for
now at least.

Best Wishes
paradocs
--------
Please move this to the "ideas" forum ("the future of klik")
Would it be good or posible for the web master to lock this?

bob58
03-25-2004, 12:30 PM
Hi Paradocs....i did a "uname -a" in console and this is what came up:

Linux Portable 2.4.24-xfs #1 SMP Mi Feb 4 01:03:50 CET 2004 GNU/Linux

Valhalla
03-26-2004, 05:08 PM
I am getting the same error (protocal not supported klik), I also noticed a few lines of text, after it said that klik was saved, QPIXMAP: cannot create a QPIXMAP when no GUI is being used. Then on down it says WARNING: kbuildsycoca running...
kdialog: cannot connect to xserver.

Oh well, I someone eventually figures out what is causing this, I would really like to check out klik;sounds really cool.

I am such a newb at knoppix I have no clue what could be causing the error.

I am sure that I am using knoppix 3.3, just installed it and ran the updates.

paradocs
03-27-2004, 09:30 AM
Hi bob58,
I believe at present since klik is in testing
it will not try to install on your version.
The scripts very likely would work -- so
keep checking back.

Hi Valhalla,
Klik's special place is for installling for the
CD boot knoppix. That is not to say that it
cannot be made to work with a hard drive
install. Advanced users can easily install
the apps they like in the standard way.
Still, boot from a CD and give the apps
a trial run to see if they are worth installing.


Best Wishes
paradocs

Valhalla
03-27-2004, 10:40 AM
Ahhh I see, thanks for the info.

Henk Poley
03-31-2004, 07:58 PM
Why is f-prot not on Klik ?

Cronos55
04-01-2004, 05:51 PM
Hi all, I have been try to get the wrappers that I have DL from Klik to open and I keep getting a error " couldnot find program "wrapper" ". Is there something that I have not done. I have try it with the live 11-14-2003 CD, the Linux Defender Live CD and Morphix, it doesn't work ....HELP!!! :(

andrewinwonderland
04-16-2004, 11:47 AM
That's what's best (and already there) IMO:

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPBundles/BPBundles.html

I know, the project webpage cites NeXTStep... and I don't have any bitten apple sticker/tattoo anywhere on my possessions/most private body parts. I don't even own a Mac. But I read the stuff and I find it hard to find "conceptual flaws". Maybe someone here will or already has. That will be some discussion :-)

I have a feeling that innovative work should start from there and look into directions which are peculiar of FOSS. The first things that comes into my mind is... I've always thought that... How can you really think that...

...wait. Just cross that and this:

http://www.namesys.com/whitepaper.html

and you get the picture...

What do you think?

lamerie
04-21-2004, 12:22 AM
'kin amazing! I stumbled on Knoppix 2 weeks ago and installed on my laptop a few days later. I went away for a quiet time in the country last weekend and apart from impressing the hell out of my hosts with the Knoppix CD I was trying to get to grips with installing a P2P client and Real Player. Both attempts failed miserably due to my (almost) total lack of knowlege of this OS. I remarked to my friends that I was mightily impressed with knoppix, detected all my hardware (unlike Mandrake...dont ask) and the only 'glitch' seemed to be software installation. I get home, start browsing the forum and come across 'klik'...problem solved! Not only that I can read all the clever chaps and chapesses discussing impovements as I read. I just LOVE all this stuff. I love being able to close my laptop lid and come back in the morning, wake it up and carry on where I left off, I love being 'in control' of my machine, I love never seeing blue screens, I love never having to reboot and most of all I love the sense that I'm a very tiny part of a movement which may eventually see the righteous downfall of the Redmond Crew. Keep it up!

probono
04-21-2004, 03:47 PM
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPBundles/BPBundles.html
http://www.namesys.com/whitepaper.html

Thanks for these links, they might indeed give us some ideas.

Also interesting: www.gobolinux.org - Mac-like filesystem layout for Linux

c_cinq
05-09-2004, 11:22 PM
how does klik performs with knoppix3.4? I had problem downloading amule. Thanks for posting apollon.

Kurumin comes apllon pre-installed and is fun. Overclockix features mldonkey, but i didn't understand how to log in :oops:

Can I use klik to download software from any website? Like, http://packages.debian.org/stable/

sorry if I am asking questions already answered.

probono
05-11-2004, 10:58 AM
how does klik performs with knoppix3.4?
It should generally work, amule isn't tested with 3.4 yet, though.


Can I use klik to download software from any website?

Only if you write a klik recipe for it. The klik script tells klik from where to download, how to install and how to start an application. For most debian KDE apps, it is indeed just a matter of inserting the right URLs into the klik recipe.

But I wouldn't use debian stable because these packages are generally too old. Instead, you can use the debian archive mirror from the day when your Knoppix was released: http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/2004/03/13/debian/pool (replace by your Knoppix creation date)

j.drake
05-11-2004, 08:44 PM
I'm sometimes having a bit of a problem getting persistent home/saved configuration to save the shell scripts in a convenient location. For example, I would love to poke a Firebird icon in my main toolbar, next to the Mozilla one.

404
05-21-2004, 01:22 AM
KliK is KOOL! Thank you everyone!

Please put "setiathome" on the list!!!! Soon, because its the only thing I can't do yet in Linux.

Edix
05-21-2004, 04:45 AM
klik is great! Also updated nvidia script would sure help for the new 2.6.6 kernel in 3.4 5-17-04 edition.
Thanks

eco2geek
05-27-2004, 10:32 PM
Error with FireFox (klik version) on Knoppix 3.4:

This may be a FireFox problem, rather than a klik problem -- :?: -- but when I run ./wrapper, the error message I get is:


/home/knoppix/FireFox/firefox/run-mozilla.sh: line 451: 1831 Illegal instruction "$prog" ${1+"@"}

Anyone have that same problem, and a fix?

(Details: Live Knoppix CD v3.4-2004-05-17-EN; /home/knoppix is on a partition (not saved to a file); kernel 2.6.)

andrewinwonderland
06-10-2004, 01:29 PM
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPBundles/BPBundles.html
http://www.namesys.com/whitepaper.html

Thanks for these links, they might indeed give us some ideas.

Also interesting: www.gobolinux.org - Mac-like filesystem layout for Linux

Glad to be of any help. Actually, I look forward to having the chance to help more soon. Like others, I'me very interested in your work. What you and others have been doing is quite promising.

In my opinion, the importance of these issues is being overlooked, or underestimated in the very least, by many.

One can object that themes like these are going to give compatibility nightmares, and as such, adoption in mainstream systems will be hard when feasible at all. Anyway I think that, especially in FOSS systems, the gap between "proof-of-concept" and mainstream can be (and actually is) a lot less. Actually, FOSS may use this as a competitive advantage.

Finally, it is clear that Apple proved this objection wrong shipping OSX and switching massively to it, even if Apple can hardly be defined mainstream, OSX is quite mature for a novelty (NeXTStep), and they have a very loyal user base and proper "switching" mindset... one may say "a habit". :D

If mainstream means lack of innovation, may we go for diversity any day... but I digress (http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/175/).

j.drake
06-16-2004, 02:55 AM
So I downloaded Firefox with Klik, and I love it. Now Firefox 0.9 is out. What do I do to upgrade? Do I follow the link or do I wait for you to update the version in Klik?

JD

probono
06-16-2004, 01:19 PM
Now Firefox 0.9 is out. What do I do to upgrade?

I have upgraded the klik recipe. klik://firefox now installs 0.9 - please be sure to rename or remove your old firefox folder fist.

probono

j.drake
06-16-2004, 03:23 PM
Thanks, I appreciate that. Not knowing that much how Klik works (I read the info that you linked, but I lack the sophistication to fully understand), is there a way that a recipe can link to the latest version of a software package? Particularly with software that is in rapid development, but is very trustworthy, it makes sense to have the recipe link to the latest download, if that's how it works. Otherwise, that's a lot for you and the volunteers to stay on top of. OTOH, if users are going to place reliance on this new feature, they will likely want the latest.

Trust me, I'm just grateful for whatever you have time to give!! Makes things a lot easier.

probono
06-16-2004, 03:32 PM
is there a way that a recipe can link to the latest version of a software package?

The klik recipes have a hardcoded URL for the binary package. If the binary package maintainer updates the package without renaming its URL, the upgraded version will automatically be used.

For bigger upgrades, usually the URL of the binary package changes. Then, the klik recipe must be changed by hand.

For debian packages, usually the dependencies (versions) also change when new versions come out in sid. For that I am currently developing "serverside-apt" which will automatically build the klik recipes "on the fly" - that will then always give you the latest versions.

TheMMaster
07-01-2004, 02:35 PM
Hello all!

I've taken a look at the klik client code and it seemed a bit excessive to me, that is why I've tried to chop it down a little. Here is the result:

#!/bin/bash
export APP=`echo $1 | cut -c 8-`
export UNAME=`uname -a`
export SERVER="klik.berlios.de"
export VERSION="0.1.3"
wget http://$SERVER/?run=$APP -U "klik/$VERSION ($UNAME)" -O -| sh

ow BTW: that uname -a in that code is just a reimplementation of what the "normal" klik client does... why it needs your hostname or local time is beyond me, but lets not be a paranoid freak and assume it was a typo?
I guess the next release of the klik client should use uname -s -r if it really needed to know the linux version? And I trust it will.

Anyway, the current klik server side scripts accept the output of -s -r too, the klik client just does a -a???

simply put it in whatever place you like, chmod +x it and you are good to go!
usage: either replace your current ~/.klik (then you are good to go, it'll just work "out of the box") or you'll have to install the mime type handlers yourself :)
ow yeah, you can use it through firefox without much problem too!
simply add the protocol handler to about:config
network.protocol-handler.app.klik value: ~/.klik

please note: if the "normal" klik client gets updated, this one will be overwritten by it, and won't work... you'll have to manually bump the version number then I guess?

enjoy!

probono
07-02-2004, 02:38 AM
Congratulations. You have successfully reverse-engineered the klik client. Wasn't hard, was it? ;) But guess what, the original client was just a one-liner. It will become more advanced though as we want to use "serverside-apt".

aay
07-02-2004, 05:43 AM
Probono,

How well do klik apps work on other distros? Providing the dpendencies are met of course. I have a friend who I want to try out Skpye with and I was wondering if he could simply install it with klik.

kjjaeger
07-02-2004, 06:33 AM
Hello, it appears the aMule recipe no longer works.

I get a dialog with the following.

The file or folder http://gunnm.org/~soda/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/amule_1.2.6+2.0.0rc3-2_i386.deb does not exist.

So I checked out gunnm.org/~soda/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386 and looked to see what was there. They have appearently updated to amule_1.2.6+cvs20040620-1_i386.deb

I did a bit of digging and amule_1.2.6+2.0.0rc3-2_i386.deb doesn't appear on many servers anymore. Please update the recipe to the new version if dependencies allow it.

Thank you for Klik

Ken J.[/b]

kjjaeger
07-02-2004, 06:38 AM
Also would it be possible to update Firefox recipe to 0.9.1
It resolves some Mozilla/Netscape profile migration issues.

Thanks,
Ken J

TheMMaster
07-02-2004, 01:07 PM
Probono,

No, it wasn't hard, no :)

But that wasn't really the point, the point was that I was wondering why you went to so much trouble writing it like that, it seems a tad suspicious...

It really looks like you intentionally try to obfuscate the client, and you are even biting yourself in the buttocks doing it like this, what if there comes a knoppix for powerpc or someting? you'd have to have 2 klik client binaries.

Why not just keep it as a shell script? add a uname -m to the browser string and have the klik server side scripts work out the architechture and you are able to have a klik shop for different machines!

Just my 2 cents :)

pau1knopp
07-02-2004, 01:11 PM
I am VERY interested in this option as I also am now running purely from a "poor mans install" and a 700M static home directory.

ProBono has done some splendid work here, but I do want to pose a question. An earlier poster in this thread noted that amule no longer works because the deb package it relies upon has changed or is no longer there. I just tried installing kplayer and tvtime and have the same results. For some of these programs that don't need to compile architecture specific (AMD/VIA/586/686/YADAYADA) wouldn't it be easier to just put the pre-compiled wrapper programs out there. Another option would be to let the client select where it wants to get a particular file from if it is not available.

Laverne
07-02-2004, 10:27 PM
The source reminded me of some windows programs that deliberatly obfuscate the strings. I love the idea though.
The userfriendlyness (spelling?) is just great, we intend to use KDE on our desktops and a system like this could work perfectly with a CMS thats linked to the working LDAP database.


Probono,
Just my 2 cents :)

Keep your two cents and buy a beer ;-)

probono
07-03-2004, 02:01 AM
The client looks as it looks because security by obscurity is better than no security at all. Now that it has been reengineered, I can make it a shell script anyway.

I have updated the apps you mentioned. The longer-term goal is to make all software that is in debian klik-installable, without the need for manual updating of the klik recipes.

The problem with software that is not in debian is that it tends to fluctuate, and dead links are the result. If anyone wants to donate me some server space and bandwidth, I could create a mirror for the files that klik uses. Or is there another way?

probono
07-03-2004, 02:11 AM
I am VERY interested in this option as I also am now running purely from a "poor mans install" and a 700M static home directory.
So do I :-)


wouldn't it be easier to just put the pre-compiled wrapper programs out there. Another option would be to let the client select where it wants to get a particular file from if it is not available.

What exactly do you mean with a pre-compiled wrapper program and where do I get it from? I absolutely don't like to compile anything myself, since this nearly always involves libraries I do not have and processor power I also do not have.

To let the client select where it wants to get a particular file from if it is not available is a good idea and could even be somewhat automated using a call to google. Do you want to write a download handler function (using kdialog, kfmclient copy etc.)?

MillTek
07-10-2004, 01:20 AM
Hi Guys,
I installed Kplayer and find I need some win32 codecs. I got them from the site in Hungary but haven't a clue how to install them. Any ideas?? Does Klik-installed software need special steps??

Thanks,
Jim

probono
07-10-2004, 04:34 PM
To install win32 codecs:
1. klik-install kplayer
2. create the directory ~/kplayer/usr/lib/win32
3. copy the unpacked codecs there (not in a subdirectory)

probono

MillTek
07-10-2004, 07:42 PM
Hi Probono,
I did as you suggested but I still get 'Stream not seekable!' Any ideas?

Here's the link i'm trying to play;



http://instamovie.com/player.asp?Movie=liquid_wind-1


Thanks,
Jim

drdream
07-17-2004, 05:58 PM
Since i am quite a newbie to linux, and i don't know how to install programs, it would a real help for me if i could install a dc++ client (oDC, or else) with the klick store.

Thanx.

Can u make this possible?

gowator
07-21-2004, 12:37 PM
pronobo
Is there a way to convert a userland install to a full one.
I have actually discovered some great apps through click :D
but I'd like to make em full installs not local userland ones.

Course i could install for each user or even move the directories as root etc. but on the HD install it would be nice to just 'convert' them.

any thoughts on this ? it should be possible...

probono
07-22-2004, 12:57 AM
pronobo
Is there a way to convert a userland install to a full one.

I don"t see a general way for this. You could move the AppDirs to /opt and change the wrappers, permissions and menu shortcuts accordingly, but that would not integrate the app with your dpkg database (used by apt-get).

poweribo
07-23-2004, 07:29 AM
how do configure firefox so that when i "klik" on a link... like "klik://thunderbird", it runs automatically like it does on konqueror?
is it possible?

probono
07-23-2004, 11:10 PM
how do configure firefox so that when i "klik" on a link... like "klik://thunderbird", it runs automatically like it does on konqueror?
is it possible?

You have to configure firefox so that it runs the command

$HOME/.klik klik://thunderbird
when klicked on the link.

http://nexgenmedia.net/docs/protocol/ has a general description on how to add protocols to mozilla/firefox, please mail me if you have got it to work.

siddharth
08-02-2004, 02:48 PM
How does clik manage to extract the debian files?
because for a while now i've been trying to install .deb while booting from the cd...
please help

probono
08-02-2004, 06:26 PM
unp *.deb -u

luro95
08-17-2004, 07:04 PM
Apollon installation crashes , KNOPPIX 3.4 :(

c_cinq
08-18-2004, 05:45 AM
Apollon installation crashes , KNOPPIX 3.4

apollon crashes for me as well. especilally, when i am trying to move a downloaded file to a different directory.

probono
08-24-2004, 06:30 AM
"unp" seems to be broken in today's version of Knoppix 3.6, which prevents klik from running. I'm investigating it.

popuman
08-25-2004, 01:25 AM
Managed to use Klik with Knoppix 3.6 FYI

nococode
08-26-2004, 01:33 AM
No problems here running Knoppix 3.6 and klik. Slick and ridiculously simple.

sblock
08-27-2004, 12:03 PM
No problems here running Knoppix 3.6 and klik. Slick and ridiculously simple.

How? Here it doesn´t run. Always a error message.

probono
08-27-2004, 02:09 PM
Unless I can prove otherwise, I must assume that there is a bug in Knoppix 3.6's "unp" which klik uses. Details are on http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12831

I am looking what I can do about it, but I hope the next minor Knoppix release will fix unp...

j.drake
08-28-2004, 06:24 AM
Certainly, you would know better than I would whether Klik is working correctly. All I can tell you is that I'm sitting here typing this post with a 3.6 poorman's, using an installation of Firefox that I downloaded with Klik not even 30 minutes ago, along with about 5-6 other packages. I can't tell that it works any differently with 3.6 than it did with 3.4

If you want to say it's broken, that's up to you. Maybe it is, and maybe I'm like the puppy barking at the mirror - it sure looks and sounds like the real thing to me!!

jd

bw
08-28-2004, 01:20 PM
For me Klik works with the 2.6 Kernel but not the 2.4.

bw
08-28-2004, 05:48 PM
But the 2.6 kernel does not allow me to configure the soundcard.

gh78
08-29-2004, 08:21 AM
i've got knx 3.3, 11/16/03
as of 8/29/04, these wrappers seem broken

kplayer:


#!/bin/sh
# klik wrapper 0.5.5
# by probono at myrealbox.com
# genericized - allows moving the AppDir around
######### there should be no need to edit below
# cd to the AppDir
DIRNAME=`cd \`dirname $0\` && pwd`
cd $DIRNAME
# set paths
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$DIRNAME/usr/lib/:$DIRNAME/opt/kde3/lib:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH
export KDEDIRS=$DIRNAME/usr/:$KDEDIRS
export PATH=$DIRNAME/sbin:$DIRNAME/bin:$DIRNAME/usr/sbin:$DIRNAME/usr/bin:$DIRNAME/usr/X11R6/bin:$DIRNAME/usr/local/sbin:$DIRNAME/usr/local/bin:$DIRNAME/usr/games:$DIRNAME/opt/kde3/bin/:$PATH
export PYTHONPATH=$APPDIR/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/:$PYTHONPATH
BINARY=`which $1`
# start the app together with all command line arguments
cd `dirname $BINARY` # neccessary for patched apps
# $BINARY $@
./$@ && exit 0


gives :

line 24: ./: is a directory
my fix:

#!/bin/bash
#---------------------------orig, #!/bin/sh
# klik wrapper 0.5.5
# by probono at myrealbox.com -----NOT
#---------------------v0.2------------------------------------------------------
#--------------------------- THIS WAS PATCHED BY gh78 at NOSHPAAM safe-mail DOTH net ---------knx3.3 11/16/03
#-----------------------------------------NOTE: PROB W/ `dirname
#-----------------------------------------IDEA:$KLIKAPP = ap dir and executable
KLIKAPP=kplayer
BINDIR=/usr/bin/
# genericized
# cd to the AppDir
DIRNAME=~/$KLIKAPP # TILDE HUH?
# cd to the AppDir
cd $DIRNAME
# set paths
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$DIRNAME/usr/lib/:$DIRNAME/opt/kde3/lib:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH
export KDEDIRS=$DIRNAME/usr/:$KDEDIRS
export PATH=$DIRNAME/sbin:$DIRNAME/bin:$DIRNAME/usr/sbin:$DIRNAME/usr/bin:$DIRNAME/usr/X11R6/bin:$DIRNAME/usr/local/sbin:$DIRNAME/usr/local/bin:$DIRNAME/usr/games:$DIRNAME/opt/kde3/bin/:$PATH
export PYTHONPATH=$APPDIR/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/:$PYTHONPATH
# start the app together with all command line arguments
cd $DIRNAME$BINDIR # neccessary for patched apps
$DIRNAME$BINDIR$KLIKAPP $@


knx 3.3 -out

probono
09-13-2004, 09:18 AM
i've got knx 3.3, 11/16/03
as of 8/29/04, these wrappers seem broken

Some of the newer wrappers have to be called with "wrapper nameoftheapplication", while the older ones were simply called with "wrapper".

and... don't forget to check out the new games :)

iancole
09-20-2004, 02:25 AM
I'll first state, I havent read all 19 pages of the thread, so if this has been suggested before, then just ignore me :D

Instead of caching the "ingredients" (packages) that go with a specific recipe on the klik server, why not keep a small database with appnames and their cooresponding packages. The "recipe" would look at "firefox" for example, and there might be 2 packages listed. The user would get the choice of package (version, mirror location, etc) to install. If the latest & greatest firefox version wasn't listed, then users could provide links to new packages / mirrors WITHOUT knowing the recipe format.

I, for example, could easily submit a link and a version number to the latest firefox, but I wouldn't likely go edit the recipe and submit it, just out of general ignorance. Of course this concept breaks if the recipe needs to change for the new version - but in the case of just a moved file, or needing a different mirror - anyone can do it.

The app could also have checkboxes for versions of knoppix - users could "certify" packages and recipes with certain versions of knoppix.

This also lets users install an older version if they desire or use a different geographic download location.

Thanks for such a neat app - Knoppix continues to amaze me, and Klik has added to it!

Ian

probono
09-20-2004, 04:01 AM
Instead of caching the "ingredients" (packages) that go with a specific recipe on the klik server

Already today, the packages are not stored on the klik server. Most of them come from the debian archives.


If the latest & greatest firefox version wasn't listed, then users could provide links to new packages / mirrors WITHOUT knowing the recipe format.

Well, that would be a big security risk - what if somebody but in a malicious software package instead of the real one? For now, it is probably best when only trusted maintainers determine what gets installed.


The app could also have checkboxes for versions of knoppix - users could "certify" packages and recipes with certain versions of knoppix.

I have planned that for a future version of the point-and-klik software store, which will be based on serverside-apt (the recipes are then autogenerated for each debian package).

Greetings,
probono

spaceinvader001
10-03-2004, 03:58 AM
I have several machines setup with harddrive installs, but this Klik makes it almost unesacary to HD install. at on a Windows machine. Aye it even makes some of the more difficult installs Like Apollon Just a Klik away.
Thanks and
Keep up the GREAT WORK ! :D

fuzzybud
10-24-2004, 05:37 AM
Today I got the latest book by Marcel Gagne that includes a tweaked version of Knoppix 3.4. I used klik to download Skype, Real10, and Iphoto. All three work well, no problems.

I am a new Linux user and haven't learned to tinker under the hood. I had the regular version of Knoppix 3.4 installed a few times and then uninstalled because I couldn't get a few programs to work, like KsCD. On Marcel's tweaked version it works and other neat things too. That and the ability to use klik makes me a happy camper.

probono
11-13-2004, 01:10 AM
Well... the next generation of klik is here for testing: http://klik.berlios.de/
click on "next generation"

It features thousands(!) of packages from debian and an improved "point-and-klik software store" with better descriptions and screenshots.

Greetings,
probono

bongski55
11-13-2004, 04:32 AM
Does the next generation resolved problems with Apollon on new Knoppix versions?

cintra
11-13-2004, 12:33 PM
Well... the next generation of klik is here for testing: http://klik.berlios.de/
click on "next generation"

It features thousands(!) of packages from debian and an improved "point-and-klik software store" with better descriptions and screenshots.

Greetings,
probono

Wow, congrats! This is looking good...

mvh

shah
11-13-2004, 02:59 PM
Congrat and thanks to Probono and gangs.
This is the best thing could happen to Debian/Knoppix/Kanotix.....etc....besides apt.
You deserve a salute from me.......................
:D :D :D

probono
11-13-2004, 04:19 PM
Does the next generation resolved problems with Apollon on new Knoppix versions?

It should.

Greetings,
probono

aay
11-15-2004, 09:08 PM
Probono,

This is awesome. You are single handely providing a free alternative to the Linspire "Click and Run" package management system. About the only thing that "Click and Run" has going for it (imho) is that it's easy. But so is klik. And with klik, if things don't work with an install or an upgrade you have in now way borked your system as a whole: just delete the folder where things are installed. I look forward to following Klik's development.

daurelio
11-17-2004, 01:39 PM
Hello everybody!

Just one question.
Can I download a program with Klik and than install them on a computer without internet conection (runing knoppix 3.7 PC Welt version).
If it is posible how to do it?
I'm a newbie....i don't now much about debian...but i am very interested on it
Thanks
Daniel

probono
11-17-2004, 08:51 PM
Can I download a program with Klik and than install them on a computer without internet conection

Hi daurelio, this is very easy: klik the application on the computer with Internet access. Then you'll find the application diretory (it has a yellow box icon) in your home directory (/home/knoppix). Simply copy the application directory into the home directory of the machine without Internet access, and there you go.

The only disadvantage is that the menu entries are not automatically created this way, but you can run the application by executing the "wrapper" that is inside the application directory. (Please vote for http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=81772 if you want to help make it even easier.)

Greetings,
probono

wsg
11-17-2004, 10:43 PM
:D :o

Well, probono...and Ladies & Gentlemen - Sehr geheerter Damen und Herren...

I'm (almost :wink: ) speechless.

Just installed my first Klik application...successfully..."Ace of Penguins".

Used the "Next Generation"

Using KanotixLiveCD BH08 on a no hard-drive puter with a PersistentHome on a USB key.

I'll be back :D

Many thanks for Klik :!: ...mfg

P.S. Is there another location/Forum and/or another thread in this Forum where posts such as this one of mine would be more appropriate? Also, Where can I find reports of similar trials of Klik - successful or unsuccessful??
Thanks...

probono
11-18-2004, 01:17 AM
the drawback of not being able to use it in Mozilla/Firebird is limiting

... and gone! :-)

To get klik working in Mozilla or Firefox:
1. Make sure you have launched Mozilla/Firefox at least once
2. Install the klik client (again)
3. Restart Mozilla/Firefox

Now you should be able to use klik links in Mozilla/Firefox.

Greetings,
probono

(btw, it was an one-liner ;-) )

daurelio
11-18-2004, 10:21 AM
Thanks Probono!!!!!

For your advice...and congratulations for the wonderfull job you done...it's just amazing, and in my modest opinion. IT WORKS PERFECT!!!

Greetings

Daurelio

mzilikazi
11-23-2004, 03:46 AM
FF worked flawlessly for me on bug hunter X including abc, acroread, amule and dbdesigner. Very impressive.

fstephens
11-24-2004, 03:43 AM
Great work!
I have tried it 2-3 times running from a Knoppix 3.6 remaster I am working on.
Running from the CD I was able to install:
Kwiqdisk
Lphoto
RealPlayer 10
TheRegxCoach
gDeskcal
okle

These worked fine.

kdsl seemed a little flakey, but probably thats just the program.

Konserve gave me this error:
"The file or folder http://www.rockersoft.com/apt/fedora/1/en/i386/RPM.rockersoft/konserve-0.10.1-i386.rpm does not exist"
Can't get rockersoft.com website either.

Thanks for the outstanding effort.

probono
11-24-2004, 12:11 PM
Konserve gave me this error

Fixed :)

fstephens
11-24-2004, 07:13 PM
Thanks, I'll give it a try when I have a chance.
Would it be possible to show a size of the download and/or the installed size? People on dial-up would probably appreciate it, and it would come in handy while remastering to gauge the space that will be used.
Thanks again.

probono
11-24-2004, 08:24 PM
Would it be possible to show a size of the download and/or the installed size?

That's one of the features in "next generation" klik which I am working on.

Greetings,
probono

gawp
11-26-2004, 01:15 PM
Knoppix is a breakthrough because it is simple enough for naive operators like myself, but that means we cannot download any new software unless there is an equally simple method. Klik is this method - so it is philosophically an excellent and necessary partner to knoppix. Sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes particular software isn't available. When it does work it is brilliant. Thanks. Maybe there will be a computer system available that is reliable, doesn't require hours of maintenance, and is simple enough for average operators.
(Ps when I have downloaded Webmin from Klik I get a message "cannot connect to local host port 10000 & the Firefox download is still issuing the defective .9 variety, on the other hand when I download Opera from their site it simply disappears when it is finished - must be in there somewhere but nobody told _me_ where so I'll never use it - what they think? everybody did Unix computing at school? Boy have they a need to live more!!!!!!!!!!! Poor things!) :mrgreen:

bongski55
12-01-2004, 05:50 AM
Does the next generation resolved problems with Apollon on new Knoppix versions?

It should.

Greetings,
probono

Yes indeed apollon now works on knx 3.6.Thanks,Probono

Now,if only we could get the latest Yahoo messenger to work on knx then it would really be great!

jMon54
12-02-2004, 11:01 PM
i get the error message:

"could not create symlink from /xfp to /home/jMon/f-prot/usr"

i click "ok", then get this error:

"can't find the binary to run"

i've tried reinstalling (from klik) to no avail

help........!

probono
12-04-2004, 03:04 PM
i get the error message:

"could not create symlink from /xfp to /home/jMon/f-prot/usr"

i click "ok", then get this error:

"can't find the binary to run"

i've tried reinstalling (from klik) to no avail

help........!

Please create a symlink from /xfp to ~/f-prot/usr then it should work. Probably you are not running from Live CD, this is why klik wasn't able to do that for you. You need to do:

su
ln -s ~/f-prot/usr /xfp

Please don't ask questions about klik in the News forum, but please use the new klik forum (http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=17) instead.

Greetings,
probono