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raid517
02-14-2004, 07:14 PM
Hi, I am new to the world of Debian. I hail from a previously mixed world of Gentoo and Windows - but I found that sometimes Gentoo was just a tad too bleeding edge for my tastes - and as such it's package management system often broke more than it fixed.

Well anyhoo I have a few questions about Knoppix/Debian which I hope some of you guys might not mind answering too much,

The first thing I noticed is that on the HDD install the kernel sources aren't included. No big problem you might think, But then I have no idea how to obtain them through apt-get. I read on the apt-get tutorial sticky at the head of this forum that if I want to install a package I just have to type apt-get install packagename (or if I want to avoid debians somewhat antiquated repository - apt-get install unstable packagename). However what if I don't know the specific package name of what I'm looking for? I mean how do I search apt to see what is available? In gentoo if I wanted to serach for something all I had to do was type 'emerge search package name'' and every available reference to that specific package in the various gentoo databases would be displayed. I could then select from the list the specific package name and version which was of most relevance to me. Is there a similar way to search the apt repositories?

In any case when I did try a minor apt-get install operation as a test (I did apt-get install unstable synaptic) I simply get an error message saying:


root@smegalot:/home/knoppix# apt-get install unstable synaptic
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
W: Couldn't stat source package list http://non-us.debian.org ./ Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/non-us.debian.org_%7ekitame_mozilla_._Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list http://people.debian.org sid/i386/ Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/people.debian.org_%7ebranden_packages_sid_i386_Pac kages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems
E: Couldn't find package unstable
root@smegalot:/home/knoppix#

I read in the forum I should add the -t switch (although I'm not sure what it does) so that it read apt-get install -t unstable synaptic. If I do this I get what looks like a more promising message - and the package does get downloaded and the install process begins, but towards the end it seems to crap out with this message:


Setting up xml-core (0.06) ...

Setting up sgml-data (2.0) ...

Setting up docbook-xml (4.2-9) ...

Setting up libxml2 (2.6.5-1) ...

Setting up libxslt1.1 (1.1.2-3) ...

Setting up libxslt1 (1.1.2-3) ...

Setting up libscrollkeeper0 (0.3.14-5) ...

Setting up libzvt2.0-0 (2.0.1cvs20021009-4) ...

Setting up scrollkeeper (0.3.14-5) ...
Rebuilding the database. This may take some time.

Setting up synaptic (0.47-1) ...

W: Couldn't stat source package list http://non-us.debian.org ./ Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/non-us.debian.org_%7ekitame_mozilla_._Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list http://people.debian.org sid/i386/ Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/people.debian.org_%7ebranden_packages_sid_i386_Pac kages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems
root@smegalot:/home/knoppix# apt-get -t unstable install genkernel
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
W: Couldn't stat source package list http://non-us.debian.org ./ Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/non-us.debian.org_%7ekitame_mozilla_._Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list http://people.debian.org sid/i386/ Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/people.debian.org_%7ebranden_packages_sid_i386_Pac kages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list http://non-us.debian.org ./ Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/non-us.debian.org_%7ekitame_mozilla_._Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list http://people.debian.org sid/i386/ Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/people.debian.org_%7ebranden_packages_sid_i386_Pac kages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems

However upon checking, the latest version of synapic appears to be installed. I of course followed the instructions and ran apt-get update - but I am still getting these error messages, and as such I am simply concerned as to whether they are significant?

Also what does the -t switch do? I ask as without it apt-get doesn't seem to want to do anything. Are there any other switches I should know of that would prove helpful?

Finally one thing I feared would happen and that has happend is that when I installed to my harddisk I lost quite a lot of the excellent hardware detection that the Knoppix CD appears to be able to do. At the moment the most frustrating of these is the lack of support for my Audigy 2.0 sound card (and specifically for SPDIF out) and the lack of any attempt to use the official ati XFree drivers for 3D acceleration. Does anyone have any advice on either how to get the drivers for these or how to get them working? If anyone has any experience of this, your advice would be deeply appreciated. When I was using the CD in order to enable digital out from my audigy 2 card, all I had to do was type alsa at the boot prompt.

I just hope now that I have moved over to Linux completely and no longer have Windows on any of my systems that setting up Knoppix won't take the month or so that setting up Gentoo did. The only thing I will miss about Gentoo is their very friendly and amazingly helpful user forums - but I'm sure you guys can at least match that!

Anyway, these are only really quite small problems and beyond this all has gone smoothly. If I can just get Knoppix working as well as the CD did, with the same level of excelent hardware detection I'm sure I will have a great distro on my hands.

Best regards,

GJ

Stephen
02-14-2004, 08:54 PM
Hi, I am new to the world of Debian. I hail from a previously mixed world of Gentoo and Windows - but I found that sometimes Gentoo was just a tad too bleeding edge for my tastes - and as such it's package management system often broke more than it fixed.

Welcome to Debian.



The first thing I noticed is that on the HDD install the kernel sources aren't included. No big problem you might think, But then I have no idea how to obtain them through apt-get.


Usually apt-get install kernel-source-2.??.?? but with knoppix you need:


deb http://developer.linuxtag.net/knoppix ./


In your /etc/apt/sources.list to get the package you are probably better off getting the source from either the official Debian repositories or from the kernel.org if you plan on building your own kernel if you are just compiling a driver the kernel headers are included so you should have all you need to compile unless it needs the entire tree available so drivers are like that.




I read on the apt-get tutorial sticky at the head of this forum that if I want to install a package I just have to type apt-get install packagename (or if I want to avoid debians somewhat antiquated repository - apt-get install unstable packagename). However what if I don't know the specific package name of what I'm looking for? I mean how do I search apt to see what is available? In gentoo if I wanted to serach for something all I had to do was type 'emerge search package name'' and every available reference to that specific package in the various gentoo databases would be displayed. I could then select from the list the specific package name and version which was of most relevance to me. Is there a similar way to search the apt repositories?

apt-cache search package_name_or_term and apt-cache policy package_name will tell you which package version will be installed along with which branch of the archives it will be installed from. apt-cache show package_name will give a detailed description of the package and dependencies.




W: Couldn't stat source package list http://non-us.debian.org ./ Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/non-us.debian.org_%7ekitame_mozilla_._Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list http://people.debian.org sid/i386/ Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/people.debian.org_%7ebranden_packages_sid_i386_Pac kages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)


You need to edit the /etc/apt/sources.list and put a # character in front of the offending lines for the sources to comment them out they are no longer valid the packages have moved locations. The new line for the packages that were at people.debian.org/~braden for example.



## XFree 4.2/4.3
#deb http://people.debian.org/~branden/packages sid/i386/
#deb-src http://people.debian.org/~branden/packages sid/source/
#deb http://www.penguinppc.org/~daniels/sid/i386 ./
#deb-src http://www.penguinppc.org/~daniels/sid/source ./

## Expermential needed for XFree86 4.3 for the KDE 3.2
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian ../project/experimental main contrib non-free





Also what does the -t switch do? I ask as without it apt-get doesn't seem to want to do anything. Are there any other switches I should know of that would prove helpful?


The -s switch is invaluable it simulates the actions of apt and stops you from making stupid mistakes by not paying attention there are many, many more I would suggest man apt-get. The -t tells apt which branch you wish to install the packages from BTW.



Finally one thing I feared would happen and that has happend is that when I installed to my harddisk I lost quite a lot of the excellent hardware detection that the Knoppix CD appears to be able to do. At the moment the most frustrating of these is the lack of support for my Audigy 2.0 sound card (and specifically for SPDIF out) and the lack of any attempt to use the official ati XFree drivers for 3D acceleration. Does anyone have any advice on either how to get the drivers for these or how to get them working? If anyone has any experience of this, your advice would be deeply appreciated. When I was using the CD in order to enable digital out from my audigy 2 card, all I had to do was type alsa at the boot prompt.


Use in a console window after having used su to become root /etc/init.d/alsa-autoconfig and edit the file /etc/init.d/bootmisc.sh and put the line aumix -w 75 -v 75 to have the default volumes set on boot or you may want to use in a console window alsamixer to check other options for the card. Kano (http://www.kano.mipooh.net/) has a script to install the driver once you have installed to the HD never used the ATI but the Nvidia ones work well.

raid517
02-14-2004, 11:10 PM
Oh I get it...

raid517
02-15-2004, 12:02 AM
Just one last question. Thanks for the helpful response so far. But you see I plan on installing a 2.6 kernel as I have fairly modern hardware and this kernel offers several features that I need if I want my hardware to be fully supported.

However I was wondering if there was anything I needed to install or anything special I needed to do to get the 2.6.2 kernel to run sucessfully? I know a few things are different about 2.6x, so I was wondering if anyone could offer any advice?

Also I have never used lilo before and am not cetain how useful it would be to change my boot manager, so how would I edit lilo to ensure both my old and new kernel were avaialable in case of problems?

Additionally I installed - or I thought I installed KDE 3.3 via apt-get. But when I start Knoppix it still says I only have 3.1.5. KDE 3.3 isn't listed on the login screen in the list of avaiable Windows managers either.

How do I start KDE 3.3 and make sure it replaces my existing version of KDE 3.1.5 (since there is no point in having two versions of KDE installed)?

Kind regards,

GJ

raid517
02-16-2004, 07:53 AM
Ok fair enough, not a poular question. But do you guys at least know what the name of the original kernel sources is so I can get some of my stuff working again? Anything, anything at all would be useful.

GJ

Stephen
02-16-2004, 08:23 AM
However I was wondering if there was anything I needed to install or anything special I needed to do to get the 2.6.2 kernel to run sucessfully? I know a few things are different about 2.6x, so I was wondering if anyone could offer any advice?

Sorry lost the post in a bunch of spam with the email notification gotta love ISP's who install filters without telling you. You need the module-init-tools package installed and you need to make an addition to the /etc/fstab like this.


## Needed for kernel 2.6
none /sys sysfs defaults 0 0


Then you have to as root in a console window or at the console itself mkdir /sys to make the directory for the mount point. You can look at my config for 2.6.2 here (http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/scormier/config-2.6.2) it should give you a working base to start with.


Also I have never used lilo before and am not cetain how useful it would be to change my boot manager, so how would I edit lilo to ensure both my old and new kernel were avaialable in case of problems?


If you install the kernel after using the kernel package program to make a kernel_image- 2.?.??.deb then dpkg will take care of that automatically and create a LinuxOLD entry in the /etc/lilo.conf and run lilo write the changes to the disk to be used on the next boot. A guide to compiling a kernel the Debian (http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net/tutorials/kernel-pkg/index-kernel-pkg.html) way.



Additionally I installed - or I thought I installed KDE 3.3 via apt-get. But when I start Knoppix it still says I only have 3.1.5. KDE 3.3 isn't listed on the login screen in the list of avaiable Windows managers either.

How do I start KDE 3.3 and make sure it replaces my existing version of KDE 3.1.5 (since there is no point in having two versions of KDE installed)?

Kind regards,

GJ

You installed Knoppix version 3.3 not KDE 3.2 which is the latest if you wish to update to the latest version of KDE I have made a couple of post here in the last few days on how to do it they should be easy enough to find.

Stephen
02-16-2004, 08:28 AM
Ok fair enough, not a poular question. But do you guys at least know what the name of the original kernel sources is so I can get some of my stuff working again? Anything, anything at all would be useful.

GJ

This question is a little unclear what are the nature of the problems did you install a new kernel and it not work while at the same time you overwrote the old kernel as well, does the machine still boot?

raid517
02-16-2004, 08:42 AM
Ok thanks guys. I wondered why it was so quiet. :)

Well I installed the 2.6 kernel and it boots - but I only get about 10 seconds in and then I get a kernel panic.

The error message I get is:


/etc/rcS.d/S20module-init-tools:

line 33: 93 Segmentation fault modprobe $args <6>

Warning: process 'update' used the obsolete bdflush sysyem call.

Fix your initscripts?

Now I suspect that this is because there are a bunch of scripts that need updating too - but again as this is debian and not Gentoo I haven't got a clue where to start.

In Gentoo it is simply /etc/init.d/kernel-version and in this directory there is a simple text file that tells the kernel what modules to use at boot time.

I noticed that debian also has this directory - although in this instance it is filled with what seem to be a rather more complete set of scripts. For eample one file I found in there was a script to automatically configure my Audigy 2 sound card. It actually works very well - and I guess the question is how to get it to run at boot time so that my card is always correctly configured.

However before I do that, I would very much like to figure out how to get a 2.6x kernel properly running - as I am keen not to be left behind as work on 2.6x progresses.

Any advice anyone can offer would therefore be very much appreciated.

Kind regards,

G. J

Stephen
02-16-2004, 06:06 PM
Ok thanks guys. I wondered why it was so quiet. :)

Well I installed the 2.6 kernel and it boots - but I only get about 10 seconds in and then I get a kernel panic.

The error message I get is:


/etc/rcS.d/S20module-init-tools:

line 33: 93 Segmentation fault modprobe $args <6>

Warning: process 'update' used the obsolete bdflush sysyem call.

Fix your initscripts?

That looks like the package is installed incorrectly you need to apt-get --reinstall install module-init-tools. Although I have never had problems with it where are you getting the package from, what is the output of apt-cache policy module-init-tools if the reinstall does not work.



Now I suspect that this is because there are a bunch of scripts that need updating too - but again as this is debian and not Gentoo I haven't got a clue where to start.

In Gentoo it is simply /etc/init.d/kernel-version and in this directory there is a simple text file that tells the kernel what modules to use at boot time.


Debian uses /etc/modules to load the modules at boot and options and any aliases for the modules or devices are kept in the files in /etc/modutils/ directory any changes you make to these files you have to run update-modules to update the /etc/modules.conf so the changes will be used.



I noticed that debian also has this directory - although in this instance it is filled with what seem to be a rather more complete set of scripts. For eample one file I found in there was a script to automatically configure my Audigy 2 sound card. It actually works very well - and I guess the question is how to get it to run at boot time so that my card is always correctly configured.


Do you mean the /etc/modutils/alsa-??? file that is created when you run the auto configuration that I mentioned in my first post the only thing that should go wrong is the default volumes not being set properly have you tried the alsamixer in a console window to check the settings.

raid517
02-17-2004, 09:48 PM
Thanks.