About the two versions of the install

[colin stewart]

Hi All,

I'm into day two here and I have managed to install knoppix to HD and it's booting pretty much ok as far as I know (no experience to be sure yet, of course!) I've done this three times now, trying to see if I can improve certain aspects of the install.

Biggest problem I've had is that using the "knx-install", the machine gets to about 99% installed, and then starts throwing up all sorts of cloop related errors, which by and large whizz past so fast I can not read them. It then reports the process was a success. Does this installer make any log files which I could use for a post mortem?

Also I am not sure if it corects the errors as it goes along, but the resulting installation seems to work anyway. The small insight I have into the nature of the errors is that it is struggling to read the CD, and it then appears to have to slow the drive to get the data read right, and this is what seems to be happening. Am I mad or is this what's likely to be going on?

Given all this, I did try to use the other flavour of installer - knoppix-install, and this only ever seems to tell me that I need to set up the hard disk to go further, and then allows me some tools to do that, then having done that it fails to use the drive, claiming it's not how it would like it to be (when I know for a fact that it's exactly what it said it wanted. It then offers that if I really know my stuff (which I don't, beyond being able to satisfy myself that it's wrong about the state of the drive) I can use "xxxxx" which I have no idea how I am supposed to impliment, or even where. This seems to be broken, or is there something I have yet to know about this? I've not even got a clue what I should be looking up or searching to find out.

I'd like to use the second one as I have seen it said that it offers a more debian like install, and since I ultimately want a server, then this would make a sensible choice, as I would benefit greatly form the extra partitions I would need on a server installation.

Personally, I'm fine working with fdisk, as long as I have a list of what's needed by the distro in question, and actaully quite enjoy setting that bit up as it's reward once you got it right, and not that difficult to do.

I don't know enough to do a full debian install on my own. I have tried in the past, and I know I have not been able to get it quite right. Not sure if it's the intructions or me or a mix of the two. Knoppix seems my last hope of getting from here to there as far as I know. Any good suggstions as to what I might try next?

BTW, it's probably not much of a deal for anyone else, but I just went and got firefox and it's working (I'm typing this using it!), so I feel much more at home already, since I use that as my main browser for windows and have done for some time now. (Since firebird) This last bit sure feels like a much needed small victory! :lol:

[bob58]

Hi Colin, just from my experience, and I have re-installed quite a few time just to fine tune and correct installation mistakes, knx-hdinstall worked much better in my opinion. When I used knoppix-installer, it did'nt prompt me to make the swap partitions usable, so in the end I had a swap file partition that was not being used. And also knx-hdinstall gives you the option to pick from 3 server type and where to place the boot loader. I am not sure of the cloop errors you spoke about. I guess I am lucky cause I installed knoppix on a Compaq Presario laptop and the only problem I have is it doesnt completly shut off when you log out. And the Knoppix on my desktop, the only problem is it doesnt recognize my sound card BUT LINUX drivers make up for it and it works ok. So all in all I am satisfied. So even tho you use knx-hdinstall, as long as your system is running ok, dont worry about the cloop errors. There is a command to print out [copy] a file of the boot up sequence when all those little things are flying by. I think its called "dmesg -c" or something like that, but it saves that process as a text file so you can look thru to find discrepancies.
Not sure about what you said about computer struggling to read the cd.....I dont like knoppix-installer, cause like I said, when you are donr setting up partitions in cfdisk, it doesnt prompt you to make the swap partitions active.....knx-hdinstall is more dependable and i have re installed quite a few times to realize this. I am new to this myself, but I find the most confusing aspect is the command line!!!! I am totally knowledgable in DOS and the command line, but in LINUX.....i need help.
Also I noticed using knoppix-installer you are prompted to use either a knoppix installation or Debian. At first I chose Knoppix and had all sorts of password problems....So i re did it and used Debian which I am used to and I like. Knx-hdinstall defaults to Debian anyway. So I would start from scratch, boot the CD, do ctrl+alt+F2 to bring up console.....follow instructions and you will go into the cfdisk program to partition the drive. I just make a swap partition and a LINUX one...some people make 3, the 3rd being for programs. But I dont think its neccessary at this point. And when you finish, as long as it works, then thats most of the hard work done!!!! bob

[nishtya]

Might be a faux pas for a newbie to reply, but I too already have hd installed knoppix several times (like to play with what is now a nice stable knoppix, me bad :oops: )

anyhow, I found the "new" knoppix-installer to be inferior to the old but only because of the installer not recognizing that QTParted, like you are all saying, made and formatted and wrote the partitions and you are just dead in the water. So I switch to the old hdinstall script. However, it is more a case of that old script invokes CFdisk which is a nice utility. I now skip the "middleman" and open a terminal, su, CFdisk . So now for my reinstalls I I boot on the live CD, go to terminal, su, and use CFdisk. After that, the new knoppix-installer works a charm on the already written partitions. It seems like there is some breakdown in communications between the new installer and it's partition utility. Or, QTparted just isn't working right. Partitions done with QTparted (and written) are still redone by CFdisk so it could be missing there in the process.

Pardon the newbie here. I got started in IT in a help room on AOL of all things eons ago, and old habits die hard (don't hold it against me)

[colin stewart]

Might be a faux pas for a newbie to reply, but I too already have hd installed knoppix several times (like to play with what is now a nice stable knoppix, me bad :oops: )

anyhow, I found the "new" knoppix-installer to be inferior to the old but only because of the installer not recognizing that QTParted, like you are all saying, made and formatted and wrote the partitions and you are just dead in the water.

I'm sure bob58 won't mind, and I'm glad to see both of you reply, me being a total n00b and all. :lol:

Seems I can't have a debian style install then since there's no way it's having a bar of it here! :( Having said this, I did play with the debian network install beta 3 today, and that's a flat out mess when compared to knoppix. So whether Debian is really the "holy grail" it at first seemed to this newbie is debatable I'd have to guess! :? It's been almost 2 years since I last messed about with debian installs, and it's not ended up producing any better result for me given the improvements that must have taken place (one imagines so anyway). At least this time I didn't end up having to waste 7 cds to find that out! 7-10 hours, maybe, but not the cds :lol:

I'm glad of the confirmation that the other one is borked though, it'll save me a deal of hassle by just ignoring it's pressence, and being cautious around it should it "get fixed" in the future! :wink:

[nishtya]

Colin, I am not sure why you are shooting for a straight Debian without Knoppix from CD. I have no experience with Debian straight up myself. From everything I have been voraciously reading of late, it makes a terrific wondeful foundation for other sub-distros but I don't hear much about it as a first-go. For my try at a "full" linux I am going with the Mandrake community 10 install myself this weekend on a spare box. But for me, my main system second only to W98 ( I have to have Photoshop and a few others for work) is my Knoppix debian-style hard drive install. I am really very happy with it and I am confident you will be too :)

Once I have formatted with CFdisk as opposed to the QTParted, the new knoppix-installer works a treat and I do have the option of debian-style install. That is what I have, though I am still going through the painstaking process of purging knoppix CD things and acquiring things purely Debian (pardon any lack of proper linux terminology here....linux :oops: newbie though PC/DOS/doze-oldie :lol: )

[colin stewart]

Colin, I am not sure why you are shooting for a straight Debian without Knoppix from CD.

Oh, that's easy, on my system (at least) the knoppix-installer is broken. so I can't get a debian style install.

So trying their beta installer seemed worth a stab.

I also read hereabouts that the knoppix version as installed by using knx-hdinstall is not debian style, and I felt that since I wanted to set this box up as a server, then I should try to get it as debian as possible for the future security issues alone. Stable or unstable didn't worry me too much as an issue, but having said that, I need this to be serving most of the time, not getting tweaked back to life most of the time. That's just one of those horrid little practicalities that like to rear their ugly heads now and again! :wink:

Anyways I have found another distro to try for that, and I may yet end up with knoppix on my desktop machine later, as the demands and issues are different for that machine.

Hope it makes more sense to you now. good luck with mandrake - I'd make sure you get your spam filtering 100% right before going too far with that one based on my last epxerience with them. :wink:

[Stephen]

Oh, that's easy, on my system (at least) the knoppix-installer is broken. so I can't get a debian style install.

So trying their beta installer seemed worth a stab.

I also read hereabouts that the knoppix version as installed by using knx-hdinstall is not debian style, and I felt that since I wanted to set this box up as a server, then I should try to get it as debian as possible for the future security issues alone. Stable or unstable didn't worry me too much as an issue, but having said that, I need this to be serving most of the time, not getting tweaked back to life most of the time. That's just one of those horrid little practicalities that like to rear their ugly heads now and again!

Good idea you definitely do not want all the excess of knoppix for a server machine. If you have not already heard of it you may want to look at a distro called Bonzai (http://developer.berlios.de/projects/bonzai/) (used to be mini-woody last time I used it) it gives you a setup based on stable and if you decline the offer at the end of the install to install KDE then you end up with a base system with Woody that you can add to as you need.

[colin stewart]

[quote=colin stewart]
Good idea you definitely do not want all the excess of knoppix for a server machine. If you have not already heard of it you may want to look at a distro called Bonzai (http://developer.berlios.de/projects/bonzai/) (used to be mini-woody last time I used it) it gives you a setup based on stable and if you decline the offer at the end of the install to install KDE then you end up with a base system with Woody that you can add to as you need.

I think I just got really lucky

http://www.epiacenter.com/modules.php?name=Sections&sop=viewarticle&artid=38

This article deals with what I want to do, the OS I'd like to do it with, and the exact hardware I want to do it on - I'm not putting my server in a cardboard box though! I'm actually using a metal case! :wink:

Having said this I am of course as crazy as any other "Disciple Of Epia" and I am using an old hifi receiver case, which seemed too good to just chuck out when it's innards died, I may even add a radio card and reuse the old remote while I'm at it - since it's so quiet I should be able to use the radio to rather good effect. :lol: I'm up for a new custom VFD too if I can find exactly the right sort of sized one.

Seems the SME server disrto is exactly what I need - I just have to hope I can add a usenet server to that, and that may be tricky, but might just be do-able.