Why Knoppix 3.4 is delayed again ...

[od]

Klaus is a liar!!!!
Klaus, aren't you? Prove it!!!


I know you guys are eager for this new release - as I am, but let's keep it positive. This forum is generally one of the most positive, well mannered and helpful that I've been on.

Knoppix is cool, so lets keep the high standard and not bring it down by slagging these guys who invented the stuff that we all enjoy.

[gromeo]

Klaus said, that it will be ready in few days.. now - few weeks.. what's next? Few months????!!!
Klaus, I suggest you keep your promises. Micro$oft cheat all the time, so I've expected something different from YOU!!!
If I kill somebody, I'll be a killer. So, I think Klaus is a liar. Let him prove I'm wrong! Klaus, put tha thing on da servers!!!

[Rink]

Hey,

Bill Gates can afford to pay an army of developers.

Let's try to keep Klaus sweet.

No point in getting Klaus' hackles up.

We don't want him to say "Stuff yous all, you can bloody well wait."

[gromeo]

Two weeks is enough time to build Knoppix 4.0, I think. 8)
Sorry, I'm a bit angry. Forgive me.

[jam123]

I agree! Let's keep this positive.

What Klaus and this group have achieved is amazing.

If you want a fair comparison of delivery times -- take a look at some other groups.

The Debian group has just announced that the Sarge release won't be available anytime in 2004.

I was a long time Red Hat (and RHN) user -- over 9 years. Linux package updates and new packages would not be included in a RH distribution for over a year. Currently, they are back porting features to the 2.4 kernel instead of moving to 2.6 kernel.

Microsoft's Longhorn has slipped so many times that competitors are calling it LATEhorn.



I use the Knoppix CD to demo Linux to those afraid of an install. I also use the Knoppix CD to boot, then knx-hdinstall.

Should there be a vote after a list of packages for the chopping block have been suggested?

I appreciate Klaus and company allowing us to comment and critique from the sidelines like a Sunday afternoon armchair quarterback.

I also appreciate his directions on how to build your own distribution.

[rickwinters]

Two weeks is enough time to build Knoppix 4.0, I think. 8)
Sorry, I'm a bit angry. Forgive me.


Whoa there bud!! Angry? What in the world for?? Because someone is a tiny bit late in GIVING you a completely free technical product?? Ugh!

I'm still looking for somewhere to donate to the knoppix crew. I was told I should support Knoppix by supporting Debian. Gotta tell you tho - I'm not nearly as impressed with Debian developers as I am with the Knoppix crew. These people deserve all the support we can put together......


rw

[MongooseNX]

I'm still looking for somewhere to donate to the knoppix crew. I was told I should support Knoppix by supporting Debian. Gotta tell you tho - I'm not nearly as impressed with Debian developers as I am with the Knoppix crew. These people deserve all the support we can put together......
rw

Exactly!!!! Knoppix is the greatest, every release is more polished than the previous. That's why there are about 40 different flavors of Knoppix out there waiting for the next release, so they can release their new versions :-)

Knoppix needs a Pay-Pal donate button on the site!! I'd Give, I'm sure many others would also.

Robert

[yup]

Knoppix needs a Pay-Pal donate button on the site!! I'd Give, I'm sure many others would also.

Robert

Same here. Fabian, could you propose this off-line to Klaus ?

Or maybe someone else here who is already subscribed to debian-knoppix ? (OK, I admit,I'm lazy)

[yup]

Sorry, I'm a bit angry. Forgive me.

You definitively must have meant "frustrated". Don't worry, a lot of us feel frustrated (some more, some less). Just keep it cool and civil.

[Stephen]

I'm still looking for somewhere to donate to the knoppix crew. I was told I should support Knoppix by supporting Debian. Gotta tell you tho - I'm not nearly as impressed with Debian developers as I am with the Knoppix crew. These people deserve all the support we can put together......


rw

You do know the a good majority of the packages on the CD and almost all of the bandwidth after install comes from Debian right??

[evermore]

you know, most of the shit you guys are spouting is just flaming.
it's ridiculous.
chill out, get a life.
it will
be ready right after it's finished.

[Rink]

>it will be ready right after it's finished.

Yeah.

At the moment I've got the bandwidth to download it.

In a couple of weeks I'm going to be out in the sticks with a dodgy phone line and a 14.4 connection.

Hurry, please Klaus!

;)

[rickwinters]

I'm still looking for somewhere to donate to the knoppix crew. I was told I should support Knoppix by supporting Debian. Gotta tell you tho - I'm not nearly as impressed with Debian developers as I am with the Knoppix crew. These people deserve all the support we can put together......


rw

You do know the a good majority of the packages on the CD and almost all of the bandwidth after install comes from Debian right??


I'm very aware that the base system is Debian. Debian has not come to grips with modern installers and other goodies. That's precisely why there are scores of distros based on it.

The base Debian distro is really deficient in commonly accepted modern features.


rw

[Stephen]

I'm very aware that the base system is Debian. Debian has not come to grips with modern installers and other goodies. That's precisely why there are scores of distros based on it.

The base Debian distro is really deficient in commonly accepted modern features.


rw

Ah your one of them if you cannot click a button it's no good.

[aay]

I'm very aware that the base system is Debian. Debian has not come to grips with modern installers and other goodies. That's precisely why there are scores of distros based on it.

The base Debian distro is really deficient in commonly accepted modern features.


rw

Hmm. Have you seen the new Debian installer? It's pretty slick. Much easier than the old one. A few distros are using it already although it's not been officially released yet. I did an install with Skole Linux and it was very simple and easy to install.

[dJCL]

I'm very aware that the base system is Debian. Debian has not come to grips with modern installers and other goodies. That's precisely why there are scores of distros based on it.

The base Debian distro is really deficient in commonly accepted modern features.

There is a reason that a large number of distro's base off of Debian. It's solid, simple and works well. They have decided, through generally democratic ways, on what should be done with the distro, but don't stop people from extending that. I use stock debian on most of my machines, just installed a text only one on my laptops's spare HD the other day, and get exactly what I want.

I've installed Xandros on a client's system recently, and it was simpler then installing any windows app in exsistence, especially windows itself, and adding programs is dead simple too( and it's all based on debian, so therefore apt to do this ). If you have a good base to stand on, a good product is easier to make.

Debian is to Knoppix, what Knoppix is to all the other Bootable CD's based off of it... a starting point.

Anyway...

Enjoy!

dJCL

[rickwinters]

I'm very aware that the base system is Debian. Debian has not come to grips with modern installers and other goodies. That's precisely why there are scores of distros based on it.

The base Debian distro is really deficient in commonly accepted modern features.


rw

Ah your one of them if you cannot click a button it's no good.



<grins> There's a real good possibility that I was programming before you were born. Or are you a relic like me? Remember CPM? S100 Bus? $400.00 USD Z80 CPU's?

The point I'm making is that simple, reliable operating systems are fine; but so was the Model T. It's nice to learn to do manual things but this is '04, and I like good usable, modern tools built for productivity.

If you want to rub two sticks together to start your fire....go for it and more power to you. I prefer the microwave. :-) Variety and tolerance are the spice of life.....

rw

[rickwinters]

I'm very aware that the base system is Debian. Debian has not come to grips with modern installers and other goodies. That's precisely why there are scores of distros based on it.

The base Debian distro is really deficient in commonly accepted modern features.


rw

Hmm. Have you seen the new Debian installer? It's pretty slick. Much easier than the old one. A few distros are using it already although it's not been officially released yet. I did an install with Skole Linux and it was very simple and easy to install.



Are you taking about the curses-like Beta3 installer for Sarge? I did an install with that once -- reminded me of Redhat 4.2. Just not my thing. There are several GPL full graphical installers available that Debian could integrate into their distro with comparitively little effort -- the beta3 installer sure seems like a waste of time from my perspective.

Gotta say tho - I sure enjoy Debian when it's configured and running. It's easy to see why people like it so much. Also, Synaptic is very sweet -- it's the kind of forward thinking tool I really enjoy.


rw

[pedxing]

<grins> There's a real good possibility that I was programming before you were born. Or are you a relic like me? Remember CPM? S100 Bus? $400.00 USD Z80 CPU's?

The point I'm making is that simple, reliable operating systems are fine; but so was the Model T. It's nice to learn to do manual things but this is '04, and I like good usable, modern tools built for productivity.

If you want to rub two sticks together to start your fire....go for it and more power to you. I prefer the microwave. :-) Variety and tolerance are the spice of life.....

rw

You start fires with your microwave? Yowsa!

[OErjan]

microwaves are good for firemaking, just put micro-popcorns on full effect for 5 min:-D, my nice did that:-(. lucky for us we where in the kitchen so... but the smell :-P

[bamarob]

Looks like it may be coming this weekend!

http://mailman.linuxtag.org/pipermail/debian-knoppix/2004-April/005085.html

[oldgeezer]

Whilst one hears well the call of self-restraint over issuing of a new, unfinished distribution, every so often the opposition presents a 24-carat golden opportunity for a penguin take-over. Historically, such events have been missed just because Linux is not a commercial operation and does not benefit(?!) from cutting edge marketing advice and funding.
This week, an extremely serious security boundary error problem in 'doze, transcending the legions of previous flaws, was highlighted by Secunia. Moreover, it was signalled to affect all versions, leading to widespread vulnerability.
This may cloud the issue somewhat concerning K3.4 and other pending kernel 2.6 releases? If they can be brought forward with fanfares ASAP, they might enjoy a free ride on the back of the woes of others? This is the normal strategy operating in the world of evil capitalists. The difference is that they have few qualms about the quality and timeliness of their products, and no constraint over marketing budget in such circumstances.
Weighty decisions indeed.
OG.

[agent_smith]

Looks like it may be coming this weekend!

http://mailman.linuxtag.org/pipermail/debian-knoppix/2004-April/005085.html

Fabian:

Is it likely to happen? C'mon man, give us an insider scoop ;)

Thanks,
Smith

[agent_smith]

Did you guys know that sometimes silence can be deafening?

Now what is wrong with everyone here? No posts for two days? Fabianx - not a single line? ;)

Say someting, I am already going nuts.

smith

[ZeroKun]

yup dead silence. Im going nutz too, i wanna do a hd install with 3.4 goddamnit! :)

[traveler_from_afar]

Well knoppix 3.4 may not be on the mirrors but at least now all the redirects to the mirrors work so you don't have to type in the address manually. Now I can easily check to see if its ready :wink:

[agent_smith]

I don't know if someone has noticed that this post has been viewed almost 59 THOUSAND times. Does anyone realize what this means once the release is up on the mirrors... ;) That the bandwidth will be bursting full stream, non stop for at least a week if not more. Poor mirrors. :)

One thing keeps me sane though - if Fabianx has no time to read/visit the forum, he is most likely doing the finishing touches with Klaus to make this weekend part of the next release name (Knoppix-3.4-2004-05-02) - oh, how I wish this were true... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Smith

[JFJ]

Yes, 59,000 views is pretty amazing. That's what you get with 59 obsessive-compulsive knoppix fans checking the forum every two minutes to see if 3.4 is out. :D This is my 496th time checking, so I am a little behind the average, but I will catch up before the weekend is over.

[lnxguy]

:D Howdy All,

I would remove KOffice and some of the low graphics games and create Language-specific .iso images. Also, get rid of all the media players except MPlayer, Xine, and XMMS.

Choice is good, and perhaps a "got everything" DVD would be cool. Since we are limited to CDROM image size, getting rid of older, less capable software would be good.

I have been remastering and shrinking Knoppix since the beginning and I use only KDE and XFCE for desktops to save space on my mini-knoppix (<210MB) distros. The other desktops are unecessary unless you must have Fluxbox.

Overall, I would rather see Knoppix get smaller than larger. Specialization of the image is a great idea and some simple scripts can help just about anyone to create a new, customized image that has only the software wanted...

Kevin

[Static_C]

I never really understood the real purpose for fluxbox. Does anyone here use it? What for?? :?:

Thanx!

[drdream]

I never really understood the real purpose for fluxbox. Does anyone here use it? What for?? :?:

Thanx!
i, for one, use fluxbox.
Why? becouse it is great for my underpumped laptop(pI/166mmx, 64 ram) and it works pretty good, if i use kde, my laptop will go crazy.

[OErjan]

fluxbox and icewm are smaller and faster.

[arkaine23]

koffice, games, and tetex can clear a lot of space. Some others I've removed at times are seldom-used kde components, wmaker, xfce, extra text editors (I usually keep kde editors, vim, and add nano), dillo and other light web-browsers.

The brazillian guys who work on prometeus and kurumin could tell us a lot about minimal KDE remasters of knoppix.. They keep their iso's down at 210mb or so which would be a good starting place.

I also use fluxbox and icewm. It's good to have a full-featured DE like KDE, but also have smaller WM's. A lot of standard distros don't give you those small WM's by default, and for knoppix to have them makes it a better demo to linux as well as more compatible/faster with older systems.

[Yakumo]

do they use any symlink optimising, so duplicate files don't take up more than one files space?

[evermore]

you can't honestly tell me that you believe the developers are still checking this thread.

i mean, klaus has been called a liar, posts are wasted on creating 'pay pal' accounts, the majority of these posts are drivel of idiots.

you just don't realize how great an opportunity we are granted by a forum like this, being able to put our input into a project like this.

and it's an insult to the developers as well as sensible 'fans', 'users', whatever, to be lumped into a group with such inane banter.

i would absolutely love to see these two topics (mods know which two i mean) archived or stricken from this forum.

it's an absolute embarrassment, and i am ashamed to think that klaus or the other developers need to be subjected to this.

we should be a very, very appreciative community, and we should not allow ourselves to be portrayed as eager gimme gimmes.

let's clean this forum up.

[rickwinters]

you can't honestly tell me that you believe the developers are still checking this thread.

i mean, klaus has been called a liar, posts are wasted on creating 'pay pal' accounts, the majority of these posts are drivel of idiots.





Drivel of idiots eh? Your post defines the term pretty well.

As far as 'paypal' posts, the process of contributing takes a lot of forms ...... and yes, contributing to the financial well being of Linux "movers and shakers" is a time honored process in the Linux world. You think Linus is independently wealthy? You think that people didn't que up and make contributions of one type or another?

Time to open your eyes and grow up.


rw

[aay]

you can't honestly tell me that you believe the developers are still checking this thread.

i mean, klaus has been called a liar, posts are wasted on creating 'pay pal' accounts, the majority of these posts are drivel of idiots.

you just don't realize how great an opportunity we are granted by a forum like this, being able to put our input into a project like this.

and it's an insult to the developers as well as sensible 'fans', 'users', whatever, to be lumped into a group with such inane banter.

i would absolutely love to see these two topics (mods know which two i mean) archived or stricken from this forum.

it's an absolute embarrassment, and i am ashamed to think that klaus or the other developers need to be subjected to this.

we should be a very, very appreciative community, and we should not allow ourselves to be portrayed as eager gimme gimmes.

let's clean this forum up.

I agree. If Klaus wants to rest and tweak Knoppix before making it available on the internet then that is entirely his preogative. Rest assured that he will get it released, but on his, not our, time table.

BTW, I don't think Klaus has ever looked at this thread (I hope not anyway). The guy is just too busy to deal with the multitude of posts that are in this thread and in knoppix.net in general. I have said before that if people really want to get messages to Klaus then they need to sign up for the devlopers mailing list. Having said that DON'T ALL OF YOU NOW SIGN UP ON THE LIST AND TELL KLAUS WHAT YOU WANT AND WHEN YOU WANT IT.

There is one positive thing that I see from all the passionate posts this thread and that is the fact that they are powerful evidence as to how good Knoppix really is. I had an opprotunity to help a friend who purchased a copy of Lindows, and maybe it's just that I have hacked on Knoppix for a long time, but I wouldn't even think about trading it for Lindows. Knoppix is good stuff and it will be ready when it's ready. I for one think that it's pretty cool that I'm getting a product which works better for me than Lindows and don't have to pay for it. Consequently, I can wait, and encourage the rest of you to do the same.

______
EDIT
______
Evermore, maybe one of the other mods will move or freeze this thread, but I'm not quite ready to do that yet. I'll think about doing it though if people get abusive. I think the other thread you are talking about is the one I started regarding the release of 3.4 in two weeks (made many weeks ago). People need to realize that this announcement was orignally made with regard to the release of Knoppix in the German Ct Magazine and then later at CeBit. This happened completely as announced. I never meant to say that 3.4 would be downloadable in two weeks.

[evermore]

my point about the paypal reference is firstly, this thread was started by a developer asking for suggestions on improving a product. it has deviated so far from that any suggestions pertinent to that intention is lost in a muddle of nonsense.

if you want to give someone a donation, these things aren't hard to do.
it's a hell of alot harder to get money from someone than it is give it.
at the least, start a new thread.

it's about time and place.

and aay, i would believe that klaus doesn't browse this forum anymore due to the multitude of posts, as well as the irrelevant nature of the posts.

but i've been following knoppix since 3.1, have successfully remastered a number of times from information gathered from this forum. i've been browsing this forum for a long time, and i know for a fact that there was a time when things said IN THIS FORUM were directly related to what was included on the releases. there was a time when you could ask klaus a question in these pages and he would directly participate in worthy threads.

there are many people here, including fabianx, who have worked tremendously hard and participated greatly in making knoppix as publically recognized as it is today.

knoppix is the definition of open source; a man with a great idea and the openness to involve a forum and gracefully accept input from that forum in the improvement of that product.

is that what's happening on these pages now?
recognize these men for what they have DONE, what they are DOING, and the direction that they are taking this great product.

a productive forum is all about ideas and collaberation, not bitching and whining about 'c'mon klaus, you're LAAAAAATE!'.

[Discerner0]

I am astonished that anyone would create something as useful as Knoppix, then give it away. I didn't want to say anything because then Klaus might charge for it, and because this thread already has about a thousand posts.

But then I realized, who has time to read all these posts? So I'd just like to take this opportunity to give Klaus a big thanks - and ask how soon will he release the new version?

Thanks, Klaus. Good on ya.

[cybernout]

I hope that v3.4 will be as good as the other ones, and i think it will.
We will have to wait and see. My other suggestion would be: maybe its time for Klaus Knopper to form a team of developers for Knoppix, so that he only needs to check and decide about the end release and has more time for his other work. (knoppix Developers Team) .

cybernout.

[agent_smith]

First - I have great respect for the Knoppix team, and wish to say THANK YOU! I'd hate to be associated with the "bunch of whiners" pushing the team ;)

One interesting fact I noticed - most of the releases were issued on Mondays! :D Just an observation, nothing more.

61k views of the thread and growing. Do you think we will hit 70k soon? I think so. One more THUMBS UP for Knoppix.

Regards,
Smith

[resistance]

Comment 1 posted by bt (131.246.89.xxx) on Mon May 3 22:36:33 2004
* V3.4-2004-05-03 (experimental)
- switched from syslinux to isolinux (no emulation) boot method
- Kernel 2.4.26 (default) and Kernel 2.6.5 (as boot option)
with ACPI enabled (use knoppix acpi=off in case of problems,
knoppix26 to try Kernel 2.6)
- New wireless drivers for: ipw2100 ("Centrino"(TM)), madwifi, hostap
- captive-ntfs installer
- live-installer by Fabian Franz
- KDE 3.2.2
- kdevelop3
- OpenOffice 1.1.1 (german and english)
- gimp 2.0
- Had to remove the entire latex system (101MB) because of space reasons
- Removed KOffice for the same reason
- /dev/modem setup tool supporting serial, USB, bluetooth and irda devices
- gprs connection tool
- lots of improvements in the hardware detection and new boot options, please
check knoppix-cheatcodes.txt.



this DE-version in BT is out!



few secongs ago EN is post there!

Name: KNOPPIX_V3.4-2004-05-04-EN
Info Hash: ea07c5d44f83e137578bfb4cc44aa2f2a4f086b3
Added: 2004 05/03 23:39:03
Size: 696.21 MB

[Ojay]

Knoppix V3.4 out.

Available at: http://torrent.unix-ag.uni-kl.de:6969/

Both EN and DE version.

[eadz]

Thread continued here http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=45952