LINUX CONVERT

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03-20-2004, 06:33 PM
bob58

LINUX CONVERT

Yes! I can proudly say after using Micro$oft products for many years, since I had installed KNOPPIX to my home computer and a spare laptop I HAVE NOT USED WINDOWSXP in quite a few days now!!!! I am coming along nicely learning a little bit more each day. I understand it may be important for some people to still keep their WINDOWS computers cause of various reasons. I still have WINXP on my gateway laptop and on my other HDD in this desktop computer I am on now. But I find I have been using KNOPPIX for about 90% of the time.....I think I may be addicted...bob
03-20-2004, 10:19 PM
towjamb

That's great, Bob. Welcome to the party.
Everyone has their own reasons for switching and I believe people should truly want to switch. In other words, if Linux is truly a better alternative, people will discover this -- as I have. Of course, a little promo never hurt.
The security is a big factor for me -- I snicker every time one of those Windows worms shows up in my email. I feel my privacy and data are much more secure .
Windows people poke fun at the many obscure distributions and the percieved lack of cohesiveness of the platform, but I think it is a strength. If one doesn't prefer a particular distro, there are hunderds more to chose from, even ones that almost mirror Windows (XPde). It's all about choice.
Have fun.
03-25-2004, 01:42 AM
Valhalla

I too have fallen in love with this OS. I like it so much I am going to start downloading redhat tonite so I can have a permenant version on one of my hard drives. I played around with unix while I was in college (but forgot most of the commands) and I am now discovering the power of linux. It is like rediscovering the joy of computing.
04-03-2004, 03:53 PM
Cuddles

I knew of Unix from the Ultrix platform, mostly running on Sparc and Slick Sun Microsystems machines... Seen some of the "windowing" that they did...

What made me switch, was getting the Knoppix CD, and seeing that, as the people in the Windows World haven't, two factors that led me to installing, and running, Knoppix/Debian/GNU full-time on my business machine:

Security... and,
Stability...

Viri are "almost" non-existant on a Linux machine, whereas, thousands are "invented" each day, that attack Microsoft machines... Microsoft is almost constantly coming up with more and more "Security patches" each day, and I am sure, on every minute of those days...

Stability is almost a joke on a Windows platform, if you just "look" at the machine the wrong way, could cause a crash... I learned to live with it, years and years of it, makes a person almost realize it isn't a problem, that it "just has to be" kind of thing... Whereas, with Knoppix, its stable, unless I mess something up, I've run days without a reboot, and have had "everything but the kitchen sink" running, at some times, at once, without a single hitch...

I remember the reboots in Windows -=- reboot to install something, reboot to setup system configs, reboot for recovering resources, reboot after a backup, reboot after running a DVD, reboot, reboot, reboot... I've run all of this, in Knoppix, and not once, had to reboot, and the resources return without having to... Amazing people can't see past the "confusing" part of Linux, and it's shell command, and see that the two factors they lack, are what are "exceptional" in Linux...

Oh well, just my two shillings,
Cuddles
04-08-2004, 03:48 PM
dot.hack//infection

Same here!
I first started getting interested in the linux world when I found lindows...it is that easy to install like they say but it's a nice OS to play around and learn. Then, a friend told me 'bout Knoppix live CD and I ran it. I like it so much, then I decided to install it to my HDD. I spent one whole day going throughout the docs and I found something that I didn't like, that their isn't a GUI setup to install Knoppix on a hard drive that I had to do manually. So, I tried but fail miserably. So I went on-line and found out some HOWTOs on how to install, weird enought all I had to type is knx-hdinstall and a DOS like GUI starts prompting me with easy to follow questions. Where I read that their isn't a GUI is from Knoppix own FAQs, and yet, some other source told me. It will be nice to update those FAQ to include this installer, it's super easy to use and it's pretty straight forward. Oh, well...I been using Knoppix for 2 days and I love it. I just need to tweak it alittle more and I'll have my dream OS. K4EVER :)
04-08-2004, 06:43 PM
bob58

Linux Convert pt. II

Yes, after 2 months of playing around with KNOPPIX I find that it is fun and I learn a little more each time. The only thing I still have trouble with is the command line stuff. But I keep at it. I did finally manage to download and install GNOME but some of the things dont work right and I dont know how to fix them. I kinda like KDE better to be honest. And the best part is if the system ever crashes, which i doubt, or something goes haywire, I know that I can re install the OS with no problem, and re configure and re customize......unlike WINxp where you have to call Micro$oft and explain why you are re installing. I just need to get a modem that will work with KNOPPIX. Right now I have a cable connection thats working fine, but if I ever need to use a modem for dial up I am outta luck. I have a winmodem and i need to find something else that will work with KNOPPIX. bob
04-08-2004, 10:26 PM
Cuddles

Bob58,

Me too, I was thwarted by the "winmodem" saga as well...

My old system had a LT WinModem, which has support in Knoppix, but could never get anyone other than ROOT to use the modem, so, the new system went through changes to have "no on motherboard" modem, and I tried a USB, but it also turned out to be a "winmodem" in disguise...

I just bought a nice, seriel hardware modem/fax combination modem... Plugs right into your seriel port, which a lot of things don't use anymore, so, having two of them not in use, was no pain giving one to the modem... Knoppix just needed to have /dev/modem pointed to /dev/ttyS0 -=- and POOF, instant working modem... Haven't been happier or more satisfied since...

I have to admit, the shell is giving me trouble as well... Coming from a Windows (always) GUI, I feel like I am dropping into a DOS prompt with the shell... But, I do see where the "power" is at, it just takes more learning of commands... I just got new "switches" for the ls command, ls -l lists in long form, and ls -la lists long form and even those "pesky" dot files and directories that you mostly see with a konquorer screen...

Learning as I go, kinda thing...
Cuddles
04-09-2004, 10:08 AM
OErjan

if you wish a crash course in comandline linux try the floppix.com tutorilas.
it is a debianbased floppylinux (not much room for kde there) that alows you to use modem, send/recieve mail, ftp, surf the web (links), and if you are lucky even your printer might work. edit text (using VI)...
it is meant to tech linux in a SAFE way, the floppies have no suport for hd, CD... just floppy, so tiny risk to amage something.
I was introduced to linux with those two floppies. but the tutorials alone are a great reference (i still have them all printed somewhere).
01-31-2005, 07:17 AM
Robinhood

Quote:

Originally Posted by dot.hack//infection

Same here!
I first started getting interested in the linux world when I found lindows...it is that easy to install like they say but it's a nice OS to play around and learn. Then, a friend told me 'bout Knoppix live CD and I ran it. I like it so much, then I decided to install it to my HDD. I spent one whole day going throughout the docs and I found something that I didn't like, that their isn't a GUI setup to install Knoppix on a hard drive that I had to do manually. So, I tried but fail miserably. So I went on-line and found out some HOWTOs on how to install, weird enought all I had to type is knx-hdinstall and a DOS like GUI starts prompting me with easy to follow questions. Where I read that their isn't a GUI is from Knoppix own FAQs, and yet, some other source told me. It will be nice to update those FAQ to include this installer, it's super easy to use and it's pretty straight forward. Oh, well...I been using Knoppix for 2 days and I love it. I just need to tweak it alittle more and I'll have my dream OS. K4EVER :)

Mr. DotHack, I am pleased to announce to you that after 15 years of being a Windows user, I proudly changed over to Knoppix. Which is Linux anyway. Please let me tell you that I took 25 min. to install knoppix to my harddrive and about 3 days to make it dual boot with another hard drive with windowsxp. Last, Thank You Very Much For Telling Me About KNOPPIX!! You saved my life....

Im just kiddin, but thank you anyway...
02-02-2005, 03:22 AM
greenmeanie

welcome

nice to have you along.
i am also liking this distro of knoppix.

Gentoo forums thou are full of nazi's so stay away from there.

Hackers School
02-02-2005, 03:45 AM
pureone

ive always used windows never even really noticed the worms viruses trojans and major security problems(untill a year ago). im 19 now been using windows since i was young(12? cant remember) never even knew what linux was. but i started getting intrested in computer security which is really what brang me to linux. there are so many differnt reasons why i like linux one of the main reasons is because its powerfull everything down to the shell. i have other reason such as its free and open source which really is one of the best things about linux. because linux is free it allows people to do as they please with it even create there own varients which helps to create a much more powerfull os. this is really why i will try and put as much back into linux as i have gotten out of it.

remember to register as a linux user :D http://counter.li.org/

i forgot to add one of the things i dont like about windows (only since i started using linux) is that it dominates the market for computer hardware. ie most laptops hardware is designed to only be used on windows. same with wireless cards and some modems. i dont know how they manage to do this but im guessing they pay of alot of vendors to only make things for windows.
02-11-2005, 11:13 PM
Bothersome

To get a better directory listing like you would under DOS, just type:
vdir

Sameple output:

Code:

ken@ken1:~$ vdir total 15556 -rw-r--r-- 1 ken ken 41286 Sep 7 13:31 182Viva0016.jpg -rw-r--r-- 1 ken ken 42303 Sep 7 13:36 1879BaySkiff024.jpg -rw-r--r-- 1 ken ken 32840 Sep 7 13:49 203Vanq0002.jpg -rw-r--r-- 1 ken ken 30229 Sep 7 13:51 232Vinc0010.jpg -rw-r--r-- 1 ken ken 29315 Sep 7 13:54 DL2420008.jpg -rw-r--r-- 1 ken ken 39583 Sep 7 13:57 DL242REAR006.jpg drwxr-xr-x 3 ken ken 4096 Feb 11 08:36 Desktop drwxr-xr-x 2 ken ken 4096 Sep 15 11:32 Incomplete lrwxrwxrwx 1 ken ken 14 Jul 19 2004 Ken -> /mnt/flash/Ken drwxr-xr-x 2 ken ken 4096 Jul 2 2004 LimeWire lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 23 Jul 16 2004 My\ Documents -> /mnt/flash/My\ Documents drwxr-xr-x 2 ken ken 4096 Sep 15 11:28 Shared drwxr-xr-x 2 ken ken 4096 Oct 13 09:53 Win32 drwxr-xr-x 3 ken ken 4096 Jan 17 08:51 azureus -rw-r--r-- 1 ken ken 8034388 Feb 1 15:27 dl242.zip -rw-r--r-- 1 ken ken 9668 Aug 12 2003 logo\ -\ VIP\ Black\ 3D.tif -rw-r--r-- 1 ken ken 236779 Aug 12 2003 logo\ -\ VIP\ Blue.tif drwxr-xr-x 5 ken ken 4096 Sep 30 15:35 mnt drwxr-xr-x 3 ken ken 4096 Jul 13 2004 mozilla-installer drwxr-xr-x 5 ken ken 4096 Feb 7 15:54 office -rw------- 1 ken ken 4678778 Jul 30 2004 qemu-0.6.0-i386.tar.gz -rw------- 1 ken ken 2649661 Jul 30 2004 qemu-gnemul-0.5.1.tar.gz drwxr-xr-x 2 ken ken 4096 Feb 11 08:29 seti drwxr-xr-x 2 ken ken 4096 Feb 2 08:35 tmp ken@ken1:~$

Here is something else that might come in very handy... Suppose you have two computers on a network. You want to transfer some files from one machine to another...

With write access on the recieving machine and within the target location, type:

ifconfig

Note the address (like in my case 192.168.0.13) then type:

Code:

nc -l -p 1234 | tar -xvvz

This will make the recieving machine go into listen mode for receive files. (port 1234)

Then on the sending machine and at the target location, type:

Code:

tar -cvvz * | nc -w 3 192.168.0.13 1234

That makes the two knoppix booted computers send over a bunch of files. If you only want to send a file or a few files, change the wildcard character "*" to the actual file or some combination of characters and wildcards.

Both computers return to the command line when done.

I know it looks complicated, but it really isn't. Also you can use a modified receiving command to save a "backup" of the source files into something like:

Code:

nc -l -p 1234 > my_backup.tar.zip

That would have the source machine tar up and zip compress the files, then save the compressed file to another machine.

Now, let's say you want to do a restore to a machine connected over the network. And let's say that tarred zip file resides on the backup machine.

Use something like this on the recieving machine:

Code:

nc -l -p 1234 | tar -x | tar -xvvz

And on the sending machine:

Code:

tar -cvv my_backup.tar.zip | nc -w 3 192.168.0.13 1234

Knoppix just kicks ass.
02-12-2005, 04:49 PM
Cuddles

Bothersome,

Nice work on the networking part, I just use nfs - I made simple bash scripts to start, and stop the network connections, but, this is a nother way :)

As for the vdir command, I take it, it has command line options, like ls - because I couldnt help but notice, your output listing didnt have any dot files, and most /home folders have a lot of these in them... Doing just a ls command will get you the same output as you posted, and by adding -la to the end of this command, will dump out "every" file and folder...

Heres an example:

Code:

cuddles@morpheus:~$ cd $HOME cuddles@morpheus:~$ ls Audacity-cuddles Desktop RealEasy faxin faxsent none tmp CDs Mail TransGaming_Drive faxout kanotixinstall pctv cuddles@morpheus:~$ ls -l total 18 -rw------- 1 cuddles cuddles 4 Mar 13 2004 Audacity-cuddles drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 4 Jan 30 14:40 CDs drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 19 Jan 19 02:28 Desktop drwxr-xr-x 13 cuddles cuddles 32 Feb 12 09:36 Mail -rw------- 1 cuddles cuddles 8014 May 2 2004 RealEasy lrwxrwxrwx 1 cuddles cuddles 50 Dec 10 21:08 TransGaming_Drive -> /home/cuddles/.point2play_timedemo/.extras/c_drive drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 faxin drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 2 Dec 10 21:08 faxout drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 faxsent -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 2521 Dec 10 13:19 kanotixinstall drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 2 Dec 10 13:12 none drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 3 Oct 14 19:00 pctv drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 2 Jan 2 15:25 tmp cuddles@morpheus:~$ ls -la total 417 drwxr-xr-x 81 cuddles cuddles 154 Feb 12 09:35 . drwxrwsr-x 6 root staff 5 Jan 7 12:58 .. -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 83 Nov 1 07:40 .BillardGL.conf.v7 lrwxrwxrwx 1 cuddles cuddles 36 Dec 10 13:57 .DCOPserver_Kanotix_:0 -> /home/knoppix/.DCOPserver_Kanotix__0 -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 54 Dec 10 13:06 .DCOPserver_Kanotix__0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 cuddles cuddles 37 Dec 10 21:08 .DCOPserver_Morpheus_:0 -> /home/cuddles/.DCOPserver_Morpheus__0 -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 55 Dec 9 10:24 .DCOPserver_Morpheus__0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 cuddles cuddles 37 Feb 6 17:26 .DCOPserver_morpheus_:0 -> /home/cuddles/.DCOPserver_morpheus__0 -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 55 Feb 6 17:26 .DCOPserver_morpheus__0 -rw------- 1 cuddles cuddles 577 Feb 6 17:26 .ICEauthority drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 5 Dec 10 21:08 .Lin-city drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 24 11:34 .LinNeighborhood -rw------- 1 cuddles cuddles 155 Feb 6 17:26 .Xauthority -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 893 Feb 27 2000 .Xdefaults drwx------ 4 cuddles cuddles 16 Feb 5 21:05 .aMule drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 7 Dec 10 21:08 .abuse -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 73 Apr 20 2004 .acrorc drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 4 Dec 10 21:08 .alsaplayer drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 .amph drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 .aptitude drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 .armagetron -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 199 Aug 22 12:19 .asoundrc -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 143 Jul 8 2004 .aumixrc -rw------- 1 cuddles cuddles 5778 Feb 6 17:26 .bash_history -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 57 May 3 2004 .bashrc -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 113 May 2 2004 .bugsquish -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 0 Mar 24 2004 .cd-circleprint.conf drwxr-xr-x 7 cuddles cuddles 9 Jan 30 13:48 .cddb -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 242 Dec 15 10:29 .chromium -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 3800 Dec 15 10:29 .chromium-score -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 305 Feb 4 17:59 .circuslinuxrc drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 .config drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 9 Dec 10 21:08 .crack-attack -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 199 May 20 2004 .cuyo drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 3 Oct 15 05:49 .czap -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 50 May 25 2004 .defendguinrc -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 2230 Jan 1 20:47 .dingrc -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 1524 Dec 11 11:14 .directory -rw------- 1 cuddles cuddles 22 Oct 4 09:31 .dmrc drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 8 Dec 10 21:08 .dosemu drwxr-xr-x 74 cuddles cuddles 74 Feb 6 17:11 .dvdcss -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 3082 Feb 5 21:05 .eMule drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 .emilia -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 553 Oct 24 23:11 .enigmarc -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 3504 Nov 24 22:14 .fbhighlevelshistory -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 1759 Nov 24 22:14 .fbhighscores drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 4 Dec 10 21:08 .fblevels -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 545 Nov 24 21:48 .fbrc drwxr-xr-x 5 cuddles cuddles 5 Dec 10 21:08 .fillets-ng drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 13:06 .firefox -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 98270 Dec 12 11:36 .fonts.cache-1 drwxr-xr-x 4 cuddles cuddles 5 Feb 12 09:36 .gconf drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 3 Feb 12 09:36 .gconfd drwxr-xr-x 21 cuddles cuddles 32 Dec 10 21:08 .gimp-2.0 drwxr-xr-x 5 cuddles cuddles 9 Dec 10 21:08 .gkrellm2 drwxr-xr-x 4 cuddles cuddles 4 Dec 10 21:08 .gnome drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 9 Dec 10 21:08 .gnome-desktop drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 .gnome2 drwx------ 2 cuddles cuddles 2 Dec 10 21:08 .gnome2_private drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 2 Dec 10 13:06 .gnome_private drwx------ 2 cuddles cuddles 5 Feb 12 09:35 .gnupg -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 1498 Jan 2 17:02 .grip -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 94 Jan 2 17:02 .grip-oggenc -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 30 Oct 7 08:30 .groundhog.highscore drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 .gtans -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 672 Jul 6 2004 .icebreaker drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 .java drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 7 Dec 10 21:08 .kaffeine drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 7 Feb 6 21:38 .kaxtv -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 120 Aug 23 09:10 .kbackrc drwxr-xr-x 4 cuddles cuddles 16 Dec 11 11:14 .kde -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 388 Sep 28 09:03 .kderc -rwx------ 1 cuddles cuddles 8360 May 4 2004 .klik -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 20 Apr 22 2004 .koules-levels drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 4 Dec 10 21:08 .kq drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 .lgames drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 6 Dec 10 21:08 .lincity -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 756 Nov 1 07:53 .lincityrc drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 5 Nov 19 2003 .links drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 .local -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 222 Jan 1 11:51 .lpoptions drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 .macromedia -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 2269 Jul 19 2004 .mailcap drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 4 Dec 10 21:08 .mangoquest drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 7 Dec 10 21:08 .mc drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 4 Dec 10 21:08 .mcop -rw------- 1 cuddles cuddles 31 Jan 2 20:58 .mcoprc -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 635 Jul 19 2004 .mime.types drwxr-xr-x 4 cuddles cuddles 6 Dec 10 21:08 .mirrormagic -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 126 Feb 4 19:11 .monster-masher drwxr-xr-x 4 cuddles cuddles 6 Dec 10 21:08 .mozilla -rw------- 1 cuddles cuddles 1113 Aug 23 2001 .nessus.keys -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 752 Dec 16 1999 .nessusrc drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 6 Dec 10 21:08 .neverball -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 1012 Aug 23 00:05 .neverballhs-easy -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 182 May 29 2004 .neverballhs-hard -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 191 May 29 2004 .neverballhs-mym -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 190 Aug 23 00:12 .neverballhs-putt -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 287 Aug 23 00:12 .neverballrc -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 88997 Aug 23 00:12 .neverballrp drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 .openoffice -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 0 Jul 19 2004 .padminrc drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 3 Feb 9 11:28 .parallelrealities -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 166 May 29 2004 .penguin-command drwxr-xr-x 10 cuddles cuddles 10 Dec 10 21:08 .pingus drwxr-xr-x 4 cuddles cuddles 4 Dec 10 21:08 .point2play_timedemo -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 473 Dec 9 18:22 .point2play_timedemorc drwx------ 2 cuddles cuddles 4 Dec 16 12:05 .pppstatus drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 11 Feb 6 17:26 .qt -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 1604 Feb 4 10:32 .recently-used drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 4 Dec 10 21:08 .rezound drwxr-xr-x 5 cuddles cuddles 7 Dec 10 21:08 .rocksndiamonds drwx------ 2 cuddles cuddles 6 Feb 12 09:38 .spamassassin drwxr-xr-x 4 cuddles cuddles 5 Dec 10 21:08 .supertux -rwxr-xr-x 1 cuddles cuddles 72 Oct 6 00:23 .sversionrc drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 5 Oct 15 05:49 .szap drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 5 Oct 15 05:49 .tecla drwxr-xr-x 4 cuddles cuddles 4 Dec 10 21:08 .thumbnails drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 4 Dec 10 21:08 .trackballs drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 .transgaming_global -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 43 Apr 29 2004 .tux_aqfh_rc -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 34 Feb 4 18:05 .tuxpuckrc drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 4 Dec 10 21:08 .tuxracer drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 3 Oct 15 05:49 .tzap drwxr-xr-x 7 cuddles cuddles 12 Dec 10 21:08 .vegastrike -rw------- 1 cuddles cuddles 2900 Dec 18 19:23 .viminfo drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 8 Dec 10 21:08 .wine -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 5 Jul 2 2004 .wmrc drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 .xbl-scores -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 684 May 23 2004 .xboing-scores drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 20 Feb 8 13:08 .xchat2 drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 3 Nov 19 2003 .xfce4 -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 1042 Feb 8 2003 .xfwm4rc -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 280 Feb 4 17:47 .xgalscores drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 6 Dec 10 21:08 .xine -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 120 Apr 22 2004 .xkoules-controls drwxr-xr-x 4 cuddles cuddles 7 Jan 12 09:30 .xmms -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 10989 Feb 3 23:36 .xscreensaver -rw------- 1 cuddles cuddles 78025 Feb 12 09:38 .xsession-errors -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 156 Aug 18 11:49 .xskat.opt drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 .xwelltris -rw------- 1 cuddles cuddles 4 Mar 13 2004 Audacity-cuddles drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 4 Jan 30 14:40 CDs drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 19 Jan 19 02:28 Desktop drwxr-xr-x 13 cuddles cuddles 32 Feb 12 09:36 Mail -rw------- 1 cuddles cuddles 8014 May 2 2004 RealEasy lrwxrwxrwx 1 cuddles cuddles 50 Dec 10 21:08 TransGaming_Drive -> /home/cuddles/.point2play_timedemo/.extras/c_drive drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 faxin drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 2 Dec 10 21:08 faxout drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 3 Dec 10 21:08 faxsent -rw-r--r-- 1 cuddles cuddles 2521 Dec 10 13:19 kanotixinstall drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 2 Dec 10 13:12 none drwxr-xr-x 3 cuddles cuddles 3 Oct 14 19:00 pctv drwxr-xr-x 2 cuddles cuddles 2 Jan 2 15:25 tmp cuddles@morpheus:~$

So you have vdir, but, also the Linux "standard" ls as well :D
02-15-2005, 05:16 PM
bigkahuna

Let me first say that I want to be a linux convert, but I probably won't be anytime soon.

Like alot of the folks who've already posted, I've worked with DOS/Windows since the early 80's and have become completely disgusted with Windoze XP. I recently had to do a "clean install" of XP because it had become so buggy, and even after that guess what XP did not 5 minutes later? Yup, you guessed it, it crashed.

So no, I'm no fan of XP. But after 2 months playing with Linux, I've got to come clean and tell you that it isn't exactly OS nirvana either. In my opinion the problems with Linux are:

1. Crappy hardware support. Just check the forums, they are plagued by thousands of hardware problems. I've got a built in HSF WinModem, Epson Stylus printer, and external USB/Firewire hard drive. Not one of the dozen or so Linux distros I tried installed any of these peripherals. And these aren't exactly "one of a kind" hardware, they're about the most common peripherals out there. In order to get them to work usually requires compiling your own drivers or at the very least manually installing dozens of files, which leads me to Linux's next big weakness...

2. Software installation sucks. Yeah, there's Klik, Synaptic, apt-get, and others, but that requires a modem connection through Linux. What if what you're trying to do is install software without a Linux modem connection? I just recently installed "Audacity" on my Ubuntu installation. Over 20 separate "dependencies" had to be individually found, downloaded, transferred, "dpkg" and installed. Jeez... the Windoze version is a -single- archive, why can't Linux be as simple? Half the time, there isn't a binary for whatever distro you're using, so you have to compile your own... just the word "compile" is enough to scare away 99% of the computer users out there...

3. Horrible documentation. For the vast majority of the distros out there, finding out how to install something means Google the web for a past forum thread and hopefully someone else has run into the same problem. But why don't more distros have -complete- and -thorough- FAQ's and HOW TO's that include all the major things that newbies ask? There is also a definite shortage of good books on Linux. I just borrowed 4 books from the library (their entire Linux collection) and 3 of the 4 were basically installation guides, and incomplete ones at that.

What bothers me most is that this needn't be the case. I think collectively, all the Linux distros prove this, but individually they all fall short. Where one is better in one area, it lacks in an other.

I think Steve Jobs' OS X is a real contender because of this. Take the stability and security of Unix / Linux and add rock solit hardware support, great documentation and idiot proof software installs. With all the human effort and brainpower behind Linux, there isn't any reason why Linux can't be as good or even better.

Beleive me, I really want to be a Linux convert. But Linux just seems like a never ending beta test and at some point I have to stop playing with the OS and actually do something productive...
02-15-2005, 05:31 PM
Harry Kuhman

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigkahuna

I recently had to do a "clean install" of XP because it had become so buggy, and even after that guess what XP did not 5 minutes later? Yup, you guessed it, it crashed........

Is you xp system connected to the Interner without the benefit of a hardware firewall after doing a new install (such as a DSL/cable router)? There are plenty of reports of such newly installed xp systems going down in even less time, and virtually no one can be on-line long enough to get the security updates after doing a fresh install without some hacker finding them and infecting them before they can get the updates. If you use windows and you don't use a hardware firewall (not that bad joke of a firewall in xp) then you are part of the problem.
02-15-2005, 07:11 PM
bigkahuna

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigkahuna

I recently had to do a "clean install" of XP because it had become so buggy, and even after that guess what XP did not 5 minutes later? Yup, you guessed it, it crashed........

Is you xp system connected to the Interner without the benefit of a hardware firewall after doing a new install (such as a DSL/cable router)? There are plenty of reports of such newly installed xp systems going down in even less time, and virtually no one can be on-line long enough to get the security updates after doing a fresh install without some hacker finding them and infecting them before they can get the updates. If you use windows and you don't use a hardware firewall (not that bad joke of a firewall in xp) then you are part of the problem.

Yeah, don't you just luv Windoz? I don't have a fast internet connection, just a dial up on a dual boot Sony Vaio notebook. I bought a copy of the SP2 update on CD just so I wouldn't have the problem you're talking about. I think my XP problem is related to something wierd in the Sony version of Internet Exporer, Messenger and Support.com that is included on their systems (and restore CD's). It's been a problem since the day I bought the system, and only goes away when I shut these three down and replace with Firefox and Thunderbird.

I know my rant sounds like a big "dis" on Linux, but it really isn't meant to be. If I had the time, skills and money I'd set out to create my own distro and include the things that most Linux distros lack... but isn't that kinda what Jobs did? The big down side for OS X is that it only runs on PPC hardware. If it ran on '086 boxes, Billy boy Gates would be shaking in his boots :wink: Yeah I know about PearPC and I've heard the rumours that they plan on adding support for intel machines, but Linux is so close to being the clear solution right now. It's just dissappointing.
02-15-2005, 08:13 PM
OErjan

actually you can buy Debian CD's (marginal cost) with most of what you want and use apt-cdrom to install from them.
To make things interesting You could probably arange for the programs not on those CD's to be burnt on a cd, with necesary dependencies, by some kind person.
I have done similar things myself to less fortunate friends with bad and/or slow modem lines.
02-16-2005, 03:24 PM
Cuddles

bigkahuna,

I know, sometimes, even I, can sound like Linux is the most perfect, nothing is wrong with it, and, quite possibly, Linux, could either walk on water or be the next incarnation of God, and many, are still having problems with it...

I finally got a "pesky" WinModem ( an LT Modem ) to work, flawlessly, with Kanotix... and, all my other systems, I have purchased them with the "explicit" knowledge of "what works with Linux"... and I have had success. This "usually" requires buying a motherboard with either nothing built-in, or on it, and buying PCI, or AGP, cards, to handle the video and audio, and using a external seriel fax / modem. Currently, my "winning" combination, is a NVidia video card, a Sound Blaster sound card, and a "cheap" 56k fax / modem that attaches with a 9-pin seriel cable. I have run this hardware with both Knoppix and Kanotix, and other than having to "compile" my video drivers into the kernel, this combination works - out-of-the-box ( so, to speak ).

To get things to "work" with Linux, hardware wise, usually requires not buying the "newest" or the "greatest" hardware on the market. A lot of times, its not the newest issue, its if the drivers have support, are popular, and, mostly, if the source is "open" and available, for someone to create "linux" versions of the hardware. What usually messes this all up, is, if its some sort of "propietary" thing... Like NTFS... ( or a WinModem )

Linux, can almost, seem like its the saviour, or the messiah, and yet, it does have its down-sides... I cant seem to run some games, "explicitly" programmed for Windows, and Cedega wont give me any information on if it will run, if I buy, the "full version", beforehand. Some games, are just not available for Debian, Linux, and not able to get them with apt-get.

But, Linux has its good points. I just bought a 3 GHz AMD64, and even Windows cant handle using 64 bit in there OS yet, but Kanotix can. I bought 1 GB of RAM ( DDR ), an external fax / modem, another NVidia video card, and a Sound Blaster Pro - Live - for sound. I will migrate the ethernet card in my old system, it works perfectly in Linux, into the new system, and I dont expect any hardware problems. I dont think you can buy a motherboard without sound on it anymore, but, that is easily disabled in the BIOS. Video, audio, and possibly, network, may not be that easy, and when purchasing a motherboard for use in Linux, you need to consider that "it might not work". But, thats why people who run Linux, are a different "breed" of "computer people". You just dont buy something, you research it first. You check its support, you check if its got issues, in Linux, you check if anyone else has one running, etc... Then you buy.

Linux is not Windows. Windows, you can walk down the computer hardware aisle, and buy anything, almost willy-nilly, and it will probably work in Windows. This isnt the same in Linux. You have to be more selective, or do some research, before you purchase. Linux is not for people who need "instant gratification", or have issues with "impulse buying" - unless, you give in to the idea, what you just bought, might not work.

Just my 2 cents worth,
Ms. Cuddles
02-16-2005, 04:42 PM
bigkahuna

Your points are well taken, Ms. Cuddles. I think we're both saying the same thing, just from different perspectives. Incidently, I don't consider myself a Windoze guy by any means. I started in PC's with an Apple II, and have owned and worked with Mac's, PC's, Amiga's and SparcStations over the past 30 some years. In fact, I don't remember ever being as dissappointed or as frustrated with an OS as I have been with XP, and there have been some doozie OS's in the past...

On a more positive note, four of the most exciting new developments in the computer industry (at least from my perspective): Live CD's, Wine, PearPC and Open Source are all Linux based developments. The whole concept of "Open Source Development" is a huge breath of fresh air for an industry and technology that has become stiffled by greed. Live CD's are something neither M$oft or Apple are able to do, and the list of possible uses are just starting to be realized. And PearPC and Wine are just plain COOL.

No, I'm no Windoze guy, just a frustrated Linux wan-a-bee... :wink:
02-19-2005, 11:57 PM
probono

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigkahuna

2. Software installation sucks. Yeah, there's Klik,

klik actually solves this: Simply klik an application on a machine with Internet access and copy over the resulting cmg file to the machine without Internet access - it's really that simple.

Greetings,
probono
02-20-2005, 07:19 PM
bigkahuna

Quote:

Originally Posted by probono

klik actually solves this: Simply klik an application on a machine with Internet access and copy over the resulting cmg file to the machine without Internet access - it's really that simple.

I don't understand. I thought you needed Knoppix running on a system in order to use Klik? So I can download a .cmg file on a Windoze machine and then copy to the Linux machine and install? And all the required "dependencies" are included?
02-20-2005, 09:52 PM
probono

That's true, you need a Knoppix machine in order to use klik. (That's because the cmg files aren't just downloaded, but instead are being built on _your_ machine from .deb archives - that saves lots of server space...)

But there are a few "readymade" ones that you can indeed download with a Windows machine: http://klik.atekon.de/readymade.php

Greetings,
probono