Can one have too much "power"

[Cuddles]

I am sitting here, in a root window doing a apt-get update, waiting for that to complete, and in my email, sitting, looking at a Debian Security Update. When the update completes, I am going to install the "security" update suggested by Debian, and just thinking. Is this going to have any adverse effects on my system, is it going to be the next horror I come in contact with, or is it just going to be an easy update?

After installing Knoppix to my hard drive, I have become, not only a user of Linux/Debian, but, my own System Administrator, a title, I might add, I have never known, in a operating system, I am only learning, and I am GOD in it. I have been charged with the "power" to judge what is, and isn't important, what should be done, and what shouldn't. I have the power to break, or keep the system running.

I come from a long standing IT background, but never to this extent, this kind of power. I worked as a tech for many years, and the title Power User has changed from what I know it means, to something "simple" in some of the newer operating systems. From what I hear, in WinXP, the term "power user" is simply a person who needs more rights, or priviledges to do there job, or someone who needs more "time slices" of processor, to get there job done. This is not the term I see the title being.

In my days, the term power user was used to designate a person, who wants, not needs, everything installed on there system, either in hardware, or software. These people would be the ones that when a new program came out, they had to have it, even if they would never use it. Or, these people were the ones who wanted the newest hardware connected to there system, even if they didn't have a free slot in the computer, or had exceeded all of there IRQ's already. These people had to be "one up" on everyone else in the company. If "joe" had a new printer, they had to have a newer printer, if someone had a new scanner, they had to have a newer one then them. If someone got a fast computer, they had to have the fastest. These kinds of people were the ones who were constantly making requisitions for newer and newer computer equipment, and had to be the "top" of the list, when a tech was working on anyones computer. These were the people who had to have at least two computers on there desk, networked in there own router, split-off from the rest of the company, and still be able to get to the companies network, but, the company network couldn't get to them. There desk looked like someone created a Cray Computer in table-top form, and they had to have it on there desk. You would walk into there office, and only see computers on there desk. Not even enough room to sign a Birthday Card on there desk, they would have to move something just to get the free space.

Power. In the United States, it is all around us. You are constantly looking for more "power" in your job, to move up, when you drive on the freeways, it is the person who has the gaul to pass you, when you go to a parking lot, it is the ability to get that "first" parking space, and God forbid, someone takes that away from you, and finally, it comes down to Linux.

With Linux, and my single user, system, I can be GOD whenever I want, I can install, or remove, almost anything I want. I can, in one easy command, blow the system, or strive to keep it running and happy. I am GOD, root to be more specific, but, in the days of UNIX, root, or Super User, was GOD. As God, you can dish out rights and priviledges, or take them away, from anyone you choose. You can lock out a user, or give them free reign. You can do anything that you want.

Is this too much power for any one person to have? Can you go "too far"? What would happen if one of the "Power Users", I spoke of above, had these kinds of "powers"? Could we expect better things, or worse, from them? Would the person leave IT, and the techs, alone, or would they just be "more" in there face, for the fact they would only do more "damage" than good?

If you are going to talk about power, you have to talk about its anti, or alter-ego, force, control. With power, you must have control. Without control, power is destine to be catastrophic. Why is Knoppix shipped with priviledges "locked-down", why is there no passwords for any of the accounts, why are all the external hard drives "defaulted" to read-only? Control. In the face of Knoppix's "power", we find "control". Hopefully, this "control" is strong enough to limit the "power" to do things, long enough, that we have the knowledge of the "power", before we learn how to remove the "control".

When someone posts a topic: What is the root password? -=- I am fearful of giving an answer, because I may be an unwilling participant in removing the "control" from the person, and thus, allowing "power" to be used before, maybe, the right time. As a wise person once said: Absolute power, corrupts, absolutely. And I can't think of any better place that this resembles, then in Linux. Give the ability to be God, and a person may be the greatest in the world, or they may be the next tyrant of the world. Am I, by giving the key to root access, only allowing someone else to open the "pandora's box", or just a natural evolution of them?

Knowledge is power, but, without control, it has no checks and balances, no way of stopping the power. Sometimes a person needs to not only have the knowledge, but know how that knowledge is to be used, before that knowledge should become power. We see this all the time, in our daily life. When someone is given an advancement into Management, from a lowly position, and they either learn from the position, and become a great manager, or just become a person that no one wants to be under. The kind of manager that, every one in the company, says: Why did they ever get to be a manager, they never earned it, and they can't handle it? The person only becomes an idiot without a clue, but with power, instead of an idiot, who thinks they have power, and doesn't.

For me, being a System Administrator, of a Linux operating system, and having God "power", I will admit, I am the "idiot without a clue", but now, I have the power. I am learning, and I am not trying to use that "power", until I know what to do with it. I am "constantly" looking for answers, and not just using this "power", to get my way, on my own system. I look to this forum, and to Google for answers, before I use my "root" priviledges. So, if I appear to sound hesitant, or seem to "over-step" an answer to a post, you should only see that this is a form of "control", a way to possibly avoid the "pandora's box" thinking. As an old adage goes: Give a person a fish, and they will eat for a day, teach them to fish, and they will eat everyday.

Early on in my life, I realized, I was the one who wanted to teach people to fish. I don't want to just give a person an answer, and leave them at that, I want to not only give the answer, and how they can get the answer, or, show them how to get the answer themselves. I realize, as it was for me, in the early learning stages, sometimes you are just unsure, and blind, to knowing where, and how, to find your own answers. This is where an answer only, is needed, and then, as you become more comfortable, the "learning" comes into play. At that time, is when, a person wants to "know" how do I do this myself, how do "I" get these answers?

Knowledge, Power, and Control. All three forces can work together, or work against each other. Some "push" back against others, and others, work "with" some. Checks and balances, we need them, they keep us from doing something stupid, or keep us safe, or, in the case of Linux - possibly trashing our own computer systems. I can only hope, that as the "control" keeping me safe from Knoppix/Debian/Linux starts to go down, that, I have the "knowledge" and understanding, to "self-control" the increasing "power" that this operating system has.

I appologize for the length of this post/topic, but, I feel very strong about this "power" that Linux unleashes on its users, and when I feel strong about a subject, I can be very "verbose" ( I admit it, I think I have the longest posts than anyone else ). I was "forced" to be my own System Administrator, my own God, of my system, and maybe, I wasn't prepared for it. I just wanted to - possibly - open the eyes of others, to what they have become, when they ask to be a "God", as well. You may want to "opt out", at the last minute, it is a serious responsibility.

Ms. Cuddles
[we now return you to our regularly scheduled forum, already in progress]

[user unknown]

I'm only root on my system - and only on console 1.
If I where god, I wouldn't need apm, acpi, installation, ...
But I still would prefer linux

Now go, install postgresql, and get Database Administrator.

[vader]

Interesting, and, I share the same feelings.
Also,

I appologize for the length of this post/topic

some people may need an apology but those are the ones who do not understand that when explaining certain things, one must be descriptive in order for others to understand the full scope of what the person is talking about. (=

[gowator]

Hmm,
I think this depends on the person and on your definition of freedom.

I see vader is in NY so Ill use a NY example....

I understand there is a smoking ban in bars and resto's in NY.
This in my personal definition is not freedom.

People who don't smoke have the choice to go to a non smoking bar and if there are significant numbers of them then non-smoking bars will be economic....
resto's you'd think even more so.....

Now i dont believe in forcing someone to go into either situation, either forcing an anti-smoker into a smoking bar or the other way round.

Am I, by giving the key to root access, only allowing someone else to open the "pandora's box", or just a natural evolution of them?

Well this is the question but this is like if someone asks for a match to light a cigarette ...they made the choice so IMHO its not your right to deny them for their own good. You could deny them becuasde they are your matches and you dont want em smoking but you shouldnt deny them for their own good becuase that is playing god.


So to me when NY or now Ireland banned what a private bar owner wanted to do in their own bar with legal substances they became non democratic. They took away the choice of people to choose and more importantly probably prevented quite a few people actually quitting. (This just makes their sneaked cigs more 'valuable' )

This is ABUSE of Power.... IMHO...

Why is Knoppix shipped with priviledges "locked-down", why is there no passwords for any of the accounts, why are all the external hard drives "defaulted" to read-only? Control. In the face of Knoppix's "power", we find "control". Hopefully, this "control" is strong enough to limit the "power" to do things, long enough, that we have the knowledge of the "power", before we learn how to remove the "control".

I dont really agree here, the defaults for knoppix are for a bootable CD, not a HDD install and the choices are appropraite to that to prevent someone from accidentally doing something... but without preventing them doing it if they really want.
(If you really wanna use konqueror as root and surf then export the display, xhost + su to root and start konqueror ... ) however forcing people to at least find out also gives them a chance to see the dangers...

I quit smoking a while ago but that doesnt mean i dont remember the misery of going to non smoking places. I refuse to give smokers a hard time becuase I know they are 10x more inconvenienced than me, perhaps 100x ... i still think they would be good to give up and Ill help anyone who wants to... BUT I wont FORCE it on people ....I even bought the book I read many times and gave it to friends and family... but if my brother visits or a friend who smokes i get them an ashtray and make sure they know I dont mind.

Checks and balances

Yep but often the RTFM is enough control.... jeez I wrecked my apt sources often enough.... I should RTFM!!!! its my fault, i cant blame debian or klaus.... just ME.

( I admit it, I think I have the longest posts than anyone else ).

hehe elsewhere Im known as verbose contributor!!!

[j.drake]

This actually illustrates one of my complaints with linux - it's designed around a shared mainframe paradigm, in which you needed someone to impose external constraints to keep people from hogging scarce computing resources to play star trek, when other people doing research couldn't get an account or find an empty terminal to use. Those days are mostly over, except when it comes to system networks.

With PCs, though, it's not Knoppix that gave me this power, it's me. I went to CompUSA and bought as much power as I wanted. If I want to, I can throw the flippin box out the window and let a truck run over it, and I have no one to answer to for my actions. That's not a power that was granted to me - that's free will.

I don't like impediments placed on me by well meaning others, not with regard to my stuff. Self-control is great, and I think that's what you are really describing here, and we all need it, but when someone else imposes external limits on me in using my stuff, that's not the control needed to prevent chaos, it's arrogance. It's someone using their knowledge to frustrate my will. Knowledge is power, and even in the old paradigm, it was those with knowledge of system commands and passwords who often exploited this power to gratify a need to feel more important.

The model of a computer as a "tool to do work", where you get only as much power as you "need" to do your job, is fine for corporate America and dull individuals. but it sucks on my desktop. It's precisely the risk taking that provides the enjoyment for me, that feeds my intellectual curiosity. Sure, Linux is powerful, but it can't produce any more disastrous results than my old DOS disk can. I know how to backup and reimage my box if I need to, I know what a PITA it is to do so, and that keeps me mostly in line. But, if I had alweys been the "good little soldier" in the controlled environment, I wouldn't know how to solve these problems myself, and I'd be miserable.

So, don't worry about my safety, Ms. Cuddles, running root is just another virtual roller coaster ride that gives me a little more enjoyment in life. My biggest fear is that linux really will overtake Windows, and everyone will have it, and some jackass with root privileges will lock me down and give me only what I need to do my work.

JD

[garyng]

If you are from a PC background running Windows, it was the case until XP. Every user using it is the root(in *nix term), even XP use this as the default mode.