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Thread: Knoppix for Windows Users

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by eadz
    I think a windows forum is a good idea and can be used for :

    - Windows recovery using Knoppix
    - Problems with windows after running knoppix ( these happen rarely )
    - Support from windows people
    - migration from windows
    - general discussion about open source/free software windows products ( mozilla, open office etc )

    The fact is, Knoppix is many windows's users first experience with Linux, and if (ex)windows users want a forum well I think thats ok.
    You get the right answer: I agree with you. For me it is important: soft migration from windows and support. Many windows' users are at the first experience with Knoppix (it is their first linux).
    I hope also the maintainers agree with this new forum.

    Edgardo

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by eadz
    I think a windows forum is a good idea and can be used for :

    - Windows recovery using Knoppix
    - Problems with windows after running knoppix ( these happen rarely )
    - Support from windows people
    - migration from windows
    - general discussion about open source/free software windows products ( mozilla, open office etc )

    The fact is, Knoppix is many windows's users first experience with Linux, and if (ex)windows users want a forum well I think thats ok.
    you have a very good point there...having a windows thread here in this site,even though this is a knoppix forum site, would'nt baother anyone...the situations listed above are some of the things we or I might encounter..and maybe posting those things that happened in the windows OS using knoppix might solve the windows problem...

  3. #13
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    Don't think I can agree with knewbex.

    I know work is being done on some of the necessary stuff but the obnoxious community we have to deal with to find out the simplest things that unecessarily impede a noobee from getting what they aleady have working on Windows to just burp in linux is itself a great turnoff.
    I joined the forums today after trying a HD install for the last week. I posted a query on the HD Install forum and 10 mins later I had an answer in language a total newbie could understand.

    http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11983

    I quickly got a resolution to a problem I snuck in while thanking ghetto_blaster for help. He's (maybe she's) a legend.

    Not bad to have these simple but irritating problems solved so quickly in plain non-geek language. The tips I've received today have helped me explore the intricaies of Knoppix and the more I see confirms it's the distro for me.


  4. #14
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    Look gang, the poster has a very valid position. For the most part I agree with the responses. What I disagree with is that we should never ever tell someone to use the search function to find answers before asking us. Here's why I think this way. The number one problem with linux in general is that the hardware manufacturers don't typically provide linux drivers whenever they introduce a new product. They do provide same for windows. That causes installation problems and prevents having the uniform process that the poster is looking for. Now what would incourage the hardware folks to provide those drivers is a greater market size of linux users. You know what would create that don't you? That's right more linux users. Therefore it's in all of our best interests to do everything that we possibly can to encourage and generate new users. That means never turning noobies out with harsh treatment, and always bending over backwards to help them.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbine
    Look gang, the poster has a very valid position. For the most part I agree with the responses. What I disagree with is that we should never ever tell someone to use the search function to find answers before asking us. Here's why I think this way. The number one problem with linux in general is that the hardware manufacturers don't typically provide linux drivers whenever they introduce a new product. They do provide same for windows. That causes installation problems and prevents having the uniform process that the poster is looking for. Now what would incourage the hardware folks to provide those drivers is a greater market size of linux users. You know what would create that don't you? That's right more linux users. Therefore it's in all of our best interests to do everything that we possibly can to encourage and generate new users. That means never turning noobies out with harsh treatment, and always bending over backwards to help them.
    It depends on the question. The only ones I outright ignore are the ones asking for the root password and such. But I don't really see any harsh treatment from people here. I think when people don't get answers it's mostly just because nobody knew how to help them based on the information they gave. I haven't even been using linux for a year yet I don't think, and I've enjoyed this forum a lot. I like it because so many people here are new to linux like myself. I feel like we're all learning together.

  6. #16
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    Have to agree with champagne that I have never really seen really harsh treatment here. You want to see harsh treatment? Go to a debian group with a knoppix problem.

    I do agree with the other poster, however, that in order to court more linux users, the rest of us (I got nerve including me in "us" I am a newbie) have to go out of our way to be helpful and hospitable.

    There just aren't as many resources for the linux neophyte to turn to as say a WXP user. And though it may not be entirely accurate, Linux is more difficult starting out. It isn't just click here, agree to this and default to that.

    patience & good humor

    will save the day,
    Nish

  7. #17
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    Re: Knoppix for Windows Users

    Quote Originally Posted by knewbex
    (...)
    I'm frankly tired of the arrogance of some of these folks when dealing with those of us trying to learn "their" system so we can become members of "their" community.
    (...)
    Are you talking about me?
    Of whom?
    Which thread?

    In my opinion it's best practice to claim about misbehaviour close to the point, where it happens, and not in general, anonymous way, where everybody can guess, whether he is meant or not, and nobody might defend himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by knewbex
    (...)
    gross omissions like lack of consistent install processes including wizards and scripts to take the labor and indepth system knowledge requirement out of the equation, lack of api-s that allow inclusion of new hardware without recompiling the "kernel" (geeze what a primitive concept) etc.
    You know that there isn't a consistent install process for windows (Beside: 'close all applications' 'reboot often'. )?
    Suse, Redhat, debian (and ...?) have their 'install processes' but there is no central linux-company, which organizes such things.
    Most programs are modular, and dependencies minimized.

    I.e.: you may install Image-Magic, without libjpeg, libtiff, libpng - or install those seperately. These libs might be used from different applications as well. They might be replaced by newer versions without touching image-magic.
    So there are lot of advantages of a independent-modular system-design too.

    You may have a kernel with every known module build in advance - or you build a lean kernel with only the drivers you actually need.

    The linux kernel is running on very different hardware (look at /usr/src/linux/arch - 20 entries), with one common source. This is a bit complicated in the beginning to understand, but show a better solution.
    Again you might get benefits from an updated gcc (Gnu C Compiler) and patch your kernel often to get enhancements (and fresh bugs .)
    I didn't test to optimize the kernel for my processor, and don't know, whether it is recommended - but it seems to be a benefit too.

    I updated my kernel from 2.6.1 to 2.6.7 with patches of 1.4MB to 3.0MB in about half a year.

    How big are MS-binary-patches? How often do you get them?

    The kernel is developed in an uncentralized, networking culture.
    (geeze what a primitive concept)

    We all like to hear of a better one.
    knewbex - the keyboard is yours!

  8. #18
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    a newbie's perspective

    hello, i am new to linux, knoppix, and this forum.. i think that both sides have very valid statements.. if i were even the least bit acquainted with linux, i wouldn't bother with questions like this either..

    It depends on the question. The only ones I outright ignore are the ones asking for the root password and such.
    the problem with that.. people fresh off the windows boat like myself haven't the faintest clue about things like that. this is not to say that i, myself, won't begin to feel like champagnemojo, AFTER becoming acquainted with linux, AFTER seeking more novice linux material..

    i think going the extra mile to state (what may already be to you) the obvious, to a newbie such as myself, helps out alot more than most people would think..

    whatever reasons inspire a person to switch to linux shouldn't be discriminated against, it's counterintuitive.. less linux users = less linux advancements.. i may be wrong, but wouldn't someone wanting to switch over to linux be more computer savvy in the first place?

  9. #19
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    Re: Knoppix for Windows Users

    Quote Originally Posted by j.drake
    If you don't like this position then flame away, I'm a lot thicker skinned than some of the linux techweenies around here. If you agree then lets get going on a windows migration exchange among windows knowledgable folks.

    <>

    2. Don't know how long you've been lurking at this site (well, actually I guess I do, because from your profile it looks like you joined less than a week ago), but I hope that you haven't gotten your prejudices about linux geeks here. I've been here about a year, now, and for the most part, I've found people here to be extremely helpful and patient. When they aren't patient, it's because the problem isn't described specifically enough to allow anyone to help. If you drew your perceptions somewhere else, give this site a chance. There's very little flaming here, and very little of the "RTFM" mentality.
    I couldn't agree more. This is the most civilized forum I've seen. Most of the posters seem to know how to spell, or at least know how to use a spell-checker, and there always seems to be someone willing to try to help - if the question can be understood.

    Quote Originally Posted by j.drake
    3. As a new linux user from Windows, I WANTED help from experienced people. If Eadz desires to incorporate your suggestion into his site (and it is his site, after all) I would suggest, as someone in the middle, that experienced Linux users NOT be excluded from helping if they wish to, PROVIDED THAT they agree to do so in a way that doesn't exhibit the arrogance you describe. No MS or Windows bashing, for example. No "RTFM". No answers consisting simply of a link to the "How to ask intelligent questions" site. Frankly, I don't think that experienced Linux users with the arrogance you describe WANT to help people who don't want their help, and will be more than happy to stay away if the poster simply says so in the title of the post (e.g., no experienced replies, please). I really think that a newbie section makes a lot of sense, and the folks who are rabidly into Linux won't be annoyed by reading through posts that try their patience.

    JD
    Again I couldn't agree more, though it would be nice if previous questions and answers were catalogued so that someone who wants to answer a question can quickly find out if there is a relevant post, and link to it in his or her reply. I know, I know; that's what the FAQ is supposed to be for, but I've spent many a frustrating and fruitless hour searching through FAQs that don't seem to be in any order, with no way to find out if my question is in there except to read every single entry. I'm talking about an indexed database which includes every question posted in this forum, arranged and cross-referenced by topic, with links to what seem to be the clearest answers. Impossible dream? Maybe. Still it would make this forum infinitely better, don't you think?

    I do want to thank everyone involved with this forum for being so helpful and and patient. You guys are the best.

  10. #20
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    I guess having (a kind) of database would be a benefit, but I cannot agree totally.

    Often the questions have a subject like 'newbie need help' or 'having an error' or 'I feel smart'.
    Either experienced users should have the right to turn a useless subject into a usefull, or we need to educate new users.
    Some users don't even find the right section and have another modem question in the lounge.
    Moving entries to the correct place would be useful, together with a section-subject-keyword-search.

    And sometimes you have to make the people read the manpages.
    It's not a silver bullet for a beginners forum, but dogmatically forbidding to claim 'rtfm' isn't correct too.
    RTFM belongs to our culture.

    And windows-bashing needs to occur from time to time too.
    It's boring after all the years, but sometimes, I need it.

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