ISO boot from FAT/NTFS/USB (GRUB.exe, grldr from boot.ini)

[Granny]

Ok I made some very simple modification to the minirt24

I copied the ntfs.o in modules/scsi, and added ntfs.o in the list of scsi modules, as well as in the filesystem list.

After rebooting, it recognizes the knoppix/KNOPPIX folder on the NTFS volume:

Accessing <bla bla bla>

And after that in the insmod with the cloop.o crashes with a derefenced data (Had to put kernel debug backj on echo 6 bla bla printk)?!? Is this the original reason why NTFS was not included in the knoppix kernel in the first place?!?


I do not want to use the Japanase version, because I want to be able to use the newest Knoppix distro. I am not interested in Grub bec, I use the syslinux loader from my usb stick.

[ruymbeke]

... Is this the original reason why NTFS was not included in the knoppix kernel in the first place?!? ...

According to some previous discussion on older knoppix release (3.3) it looks like that the NTFS module have to be compiled within the kernel to get it working. In an other hand, the japanise version use the kernel 2.6 with the ntfs.ko module. Does it mean that NTFS only works with the 2.6 kernel ?
But whatever I use the 2.4 or 2.6 kernel, I get the same problem on my side.

[wslkevin]

Ah, you want to boot the ISO. Well, I (like the guys up higher in the thread) have never been successful at booting the ISO from my C:\ (NTFS formatted) drive using GRUB.

However, the folks who maintain the Japanese version of Knoppix recently came out with a version that you can boot entirely from your NTFS partition. It's available at

http://unit.aist.go.jp/it/knoppix/win/index-en.html

and you can either use their installer, which is completely automated, or, if you already have GRUB installed, set it up manually. (It uses the ~700MB /KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX file, their modified "miniroot," and the kernel, copied to your C:\ drive).

If you're interested, I can post manual installation instructions.

Thank you very much, could you provide the installation instrution?
So I need to recompile the kernel. I am a newbie in Linux, could you also mentioned the software used and how to compile the kernel.
Thanks again

a_chih 寫道:

那麼可以外接一台usb CD-ROM嗎？
我猜你NB內原本已裝有一套win了吧,如果是這樣,那你可以參考以下這個方式看看.
http://knoppix.tnc.edu.tw/modules/ne...id=899&forum=1

希望幫的到你,加油!

那可是要有額外的FAT partition 的，是嗎？
而且是要安裝，不是boot from ISO, right?
anyway, thanks very much for your help

[j.drake]

Gilles, a few pages back, you posted an "ALL you need to get . . . " post. I tried it, and I got close, but now I'm kind of stuck. See http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...?p=53357#53357 . At first, I got an error that dropped me to a limited shell, but at least I was in the Knoppix boot process. Then I discovered that I had the hd designations wrong, so I corrected them. But now, I'm not even getting that far.

I get past the boot.ini menu into the Grub menu, and select the 2.6 kernel option. Then the selected stanza from the menul.lst shows at the top (except for the word "boot" at the end), it claims to be booting, but nothing happens.

My NTFS is hda1 - the only partition on the hda drive. On hdb, hda1 is my linux data partition, occupied by my persistent home and configuration in ext2 format. hdb5 is where the tohd files are loaded. Would you please look at my menu.lst and tell me where I'm going wrong? It appears at c:\boot\grub\ .

color blue/white yellow/green
timeout=15
default=0

# GvR July 11th 2004 Modified by JD 091604
# All this can be booted from the NTFS partition if all the files are copied from the zip
# and the loopback file /knoppix/knoppix is on the root of /dev/hdb5 === (hd1,4) for grub !

title Default Windows Boot on HD 0
	rootnoverify (hd0,0)
	chainloader +1
	boot

title Knoppix 3.6 kernel 2.4, fromhd=/dev/hdb5
	kernel (hd1,4)/boot/knoppix/linux24 home=/dev/hdb1 myconfig=scan ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 nomce quiet fromhd=/dev/hdb5 knoppix_name=knoppix
	initrd (hd1,4)/boot/knoppix/minirt24.gz
	boot

title Knoppix 3.6 kernel 2.6, fromhd=/dev/hdb5
	kernel (hd1,4)/boot/knoppix/linux26 home=/dev/hdb1 myconfig=scan ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 nomce quiet fromhd=/dev/hdb5 knoppix_name=knoppix
	initrd (hd1,4)/boot/knoppix/minirt26.gz
	boot

title Memory test
	kernel (hd1,4)/boot/knoppix/memtest

title Reload menu.lst from (hd1,4)/knoppix
	configfile (hd1,4)/knoppix/menu.lst

Here is my boot.ini

[boot loader]
timeout=15
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\windows

[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\windows="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
c:\bootgrub="Start Grub"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understood your directions correctly, I do NOT need to put the grub.bin folder anywhere, right?

OTOH, the contents of the Root_OF_NTFS folder (except boot.ini) get copied to C:, right?

Any idea what I'm doing wrong? Would you recommend that I abandon this for the Japanese solution anyway? Personally, I would prefer to keep to your original design, if possible. And, I'm not interested in booting from .ISO.

TIA

j.drake

[probono]

j.drake, we should better find out what changes were made in the Japanese edition so that we can boot the regular Knoppix poor man's from NTFS, too.

[ruymbeke]

j.drake, we should better find out what changes were made in the Japanese edition so that we can boot the regular Knoppix poor man's from NTFS, too.

I am still working on the ramdisk and the linuxrc but no success so far with knoppix 3.6 and ISO from NTFS...

Gilles, a few pages back, you posted an "ALL you need to get . . . " post. I tried it, and I got close, but now I'm kind of stuck. See http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...?p=53357#53357 ... Any idea what I'm doing wrong? ... j.drake

My deep apologizes. I did not properly uploaded the zip file containing grub. Please download again the correct grub3.zip file from this link: http://s94592085.onlinehome.us/grub/grub3.zip Inside Root_Of_NTFS, you should now have a directory called /boot/knoppix.new containing, on top of the linux26 kernel, the ramdisk miniroot_ntfs.gz that I got from the japanese knoppix distribution. You should also find the correct /boot/grub/menu.lst in order to boot everything from C:\ (hda1, NTFS):

##################################
# GvR Sept 17th 2004
color black/cyan yellow/cyan
timeout=5
default=0

title Default Boot on HD 0
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
chainloader +1
boot

# Knoppix Boot from a single NTFS partition hda1 c:\
# All the files within the directory "Root_Of_NTFS" of the grub3.zip
# have to be copied into the root of the NTFS hda1 partition c:\
# but the boot.ini file (which is just here as an example)
# and the 700MB loopback file knoppix has to be extracted from the ISO
# and copied into c:\boot\knoppix.new\knoppix
title Knoppix 3.4 kernel 2.6 from NTFS hda1
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.new/linux26 init=/etc/init lang=us hda=scsi hdb=scsi hdc=scsi hdd=scsi vga=791 ro quiet knoppix_dir=/boot/knoppix.new knoppix_name=knoppix
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.new/miniroot_ntfs.gz
boot

title Memory test
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/knoppix.new/memtest

title Win311 from Dos from Floppy image 1.44Mb, just for fun...
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/memdisk
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/win311.img
boot
##################################

Since you already get grub running, your boot.ini file is correct and you don't need to update the file grldr with the content of grub3.zip. (This new version of grldr (grub3.zip) can be started directly from the boot.ini and do not require the file bootgrub anymore). Let me know ...
Cheers, Gilles

PS: this should work as well with fat16/32, ext2/3, ...
I also added in the grub3.zip the required files to make a grub boot floppy from a win2k/xp system and the files required by grub to install itself on the disk/partition boot sectors. This version of grub can also boot from the network with some network cards: eepro100, e1000, rtl8139, rtl8169, 3c905, ng310, ... assuming that a server has been setup properly. Usefull if your network card doesn't support PXE !
PS2: I didn't try the 3.6 japanese version yet ...

[Granny]

Ok, on my corporate computer I finally got it to work,
I use my USB key to boot, so that I do not have to modify ANY of the windows files.
This is what I did:
Downloaded Knoppix 3.6 & Knoppix 3.6 Japanese Version

Copied from the Knoppix 3.6 Japanese version the boot/isolinux folder to /mnt/sda1 (My 64Mb USB stick). Then copied from the Knoppix 3.6 cd the isolinux.cfg to /mnt/sda1 and renamed it to syslinux.cfg (To get rid of the Japanese languages etc...). After that I copied the knoppix/KNOPPIX file to my c: (NTFS) from the original Knoppix 3.6 version. Also I used the ntfsrootdisk (in the root folder of the japanese version)), copied it to /mnt/sda and renamed it to minirt36.zip (So it overwrites the old one).
Lastly I made my usb stick bootable by unounting /mnt/sda1 and doing a syslinux /dev/sda.

Now it works with the 2.6 kernel only it seems, but it worx and I am happy

Just plug in the usb key if your boss is not around and type knoppix26 fromhd (Or just modify the syslinux.cfg so it does this automaticly), it now boots perfectly without cd from usb & ntfs.

[j.drake]

j.drake, we should better find out what changes were made in the Japanese edition so that we can boot the regular Knoppix poor man's from NTFS, too.

No, I think that's a great idea. But what I'm doing now is to work on an enhancement to address the boot option to load the fromhd installation, because I already have a second disk partitioned and ready to go. I'm hoping that this option will allow me to edit the Knoppix image while running live CD, effectively modifying the system for when I reboot with the fromhd cheatcode.

The critical feedback I've been receiving on PMI mostly relates to the fact that the partition where knoppix resides is rendered unwriteable by the fs (stands to reason), and therefore the persistent home must reside in a different partition altogether. Meanwhile, the script for PH (as a partition) forces an ext2 fs on the installer, meaning that yet another partition is needed if you want a fat32 area for sharing data. It's getting to the point where you need to set so many partitions (which is fairly advanced stuff for a newbie), plus mess with a bootloader, that the advantages of a PMI over a knoppix-style hd installation are disappearing, especially given that the knoppix-style is scripted to do a lot of this automatically. Add to that the fact that partitioning for the tohd is wasteful unless you size it to be just barely big enough to handle that aspect alone.

What I would really like to see for new users is to develop something like the Japanese/Ruymbeke solution to load from the NTFS ISO file, so that a program partition is no longer necessary, and restructure the PMI concept to rely upon a persistent home file instead, giving the advantages of a hd install without calling upon new users to create partitions, other than to save data. Taken a step further, if we could debug the captive NTFS installer to allow writing to NTFS reliably, we might be able to dispense with the need for partitioning at all. Lastly, and I think this is something you would know far more about, could Klik accommodate a proc file for all of this, such that the typical person with a factory-built WinXP computer with a single NTFS partition at hda1 could run a klik recipe from a live boot and have it set up for them? (with appropriate disclaimers, of course)

For now, though, I'm looking after my own selfish interests on my computer.

jd

[j.drake]

What I would really like to see for new users is to develop something like the Japanese/Ruymbeke solution to load from the NTFS ISO file, so that a program partition is no longer necessary, and restructure the PMI concept to rely upon a persistent home file instead, giving the advantages of a hd install without calling upon new users to create partitions, other than to save data. Taken a step further, if we could debug the captive NTFS installer to allow writing to NTFS reliably, we might be able to dispense with the need for partitioning at all. Lastly, and I think this is something you would know far more about, could Klik accommodate a proc file for all of this, such that the typical person with a factory-built WinXP computer with a single NTFS partition at hda1 could run a klik recipe from a live boot and have it set up for them? (with appropriate disclaimers, of course)

Probono,

Alternatively, I suspect that a lot of new users check out this forum from a Windows browser before they even download Knoppix. I think I did, IIRC. The newbies we get here are not ignorant sheep - most are very capable "power users" of Windows, just unfamiliar with Linux. This solution is intriguing because the "surgery" is all performed on the Windows side - no prior Linux knowledge required. If a mistake is made, it is repaired in Windows, where the new user has familiarity already. Speaking from personal experience, it is very intimidating to try to fix a botched operation in an unfamiliar OS, particularly using BASH in a console. If the details of this boot from NTFS ISO get finally ironed out and simplified, it would be great to put into the WIKI, and possibly as a sticky in the MSWindows forum. Ideally (IMO), the new user would read the how-to, make the necessary changes in Windows, and even download the ISO in Windows, THEN run Knoppix without even the necessity of ever burning a CD. All things considered, I think this has the potential of being an even better option for Windows immigrants than the fromhd PMI.

jd

[ruymbeke]

... The critical feedback I've been receiving on PMI mostly relates to the fact that the partition where knoppix resides is rendered unwriteable by the fs (stands to reason), and therefore the persistent home must reside in a different partition altogether... jd

This not totally true: I don't remember how I did it (some flag -o ... need to be added to the re-mount), but you can still grant write access to the ntfs partition where the 700MB knoppix resides. The disk is mounted as /cdrom and you need the capture ntfs drivers/script to be run. Obviously you don't want to move or delete the knoppix file since you are using this file but I remember having modified my menu.lst in the NTFS partition using knoppix having booted from it... But I don't know yet about a config or persistent home being as well on that NTFS partition...

Granny: Glad to see that the japanese version looks like working for you. I will try the japanese 3.6 version this we. I like to boot from the hd, and I am using my USB dongle to store my data.
FYI I have been able to run successfully Lotus Notes (corporate Email), MS Office and other Windows only applications from my Dongle using CrossOver, an improved flavor of wine: http://www.codeweavers.com/
Gilles

PS: the command line I used to get write access to the NTFS partition was:
mount -t captive-ntfs -o force /dev/hda1 /mnt/hda1