ISO boot from FAT/NTFS/USB (GRUB.exe, grldr from boot.ini)

[ruymbeke]

New (and working) Forum links (after forum migration):
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Knoppix 7.0.0 minirt and virtual machine: http://knoppix.net/forum/threads/115...465#post126465
Workstation 8.0.1 or Player 4.0.1 (build 528992) vm for Knoppix 6.7.1: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/threads...l=1#post125586

A snapshot of the old forum (before the migration from phpBB to vBulletin) would be helpful to repair all the broken links...

Old forum links:
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Since this thread is quite long now, please find below an index of some useful links:

Workstation 7.0.1 or Player 3.0.1 (build 227600) vm for 6.2.1: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=122675#122675 >4GB
Workstation 7.0.0 or Player 3.0.0 (build 203739) vm for 6.2.0: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=121964#121964 >4GB
Workstation 7.0.0 or Player 3.0.0 (build 203739) vm for 5.3.1 & 5.1.1: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=121541#121541
Workstation 6.5.2 or Player 2.5.2 (build 156735) vm for 5.3.1 & 5.1.1: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=120342#120342
Workstation 6.5.1 or Player 2.5.1 (build 126130) vm for 5.3.1 & 5.1.1: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=119222#119222
Workstation 6.5.0 or Player 2.5.0 (build 118166) vm for 5.3.1 & 5.1.1: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=118954#118954
VmWare 6.0 virtual machines for Knoppix 5.1.1 & 5.2 c't: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=113100#113100
with persistence of data: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=113141#113141
USB dongle how-to & 4.02/5.01 files: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...?p=93758#93758
Windows Partition PMI wiki: http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Win_Partition

Knoppix 6.2.1 update: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=122674#122674 with big memory kernel >4GB
Knoppix 6.2.0 update: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=121968#121968 with big memory kernel >4GB
Knoppix 6.2.0 update: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=121620#121620
Knoppix 5.3.1 update: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=117224#117224
Knoppix 5.2 c't update: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=112830#112830
Knoppix 5.1.1 update: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=110240#110240
Knoppix 5.1.0 update: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=110044#110044
Knoppix 5.0.1 update: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=103883#103883
Knoppix 5.0 update: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=101334#101334
Accelerated Knoppix 5.0.1 update: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=104261#104261
Accelerated Knoppix 4.0.2 update: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...=101282#101282

ISO boot using grub: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...?p=99669#99669
and some more explanation: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...?p=98279#98279
bug fixes: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...?p=98940#98940
and trick used: http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...?p=96888#96888

Hope this helps,
Gilles van Ruymbeke

************************************************** *********************************
My original post is below:

I need to run knooppix on a stand alone system without cdrom and without changing the mbr
nor the single ntfs partition. Using grub4all I can boot the kernel and ramdisk from the xp
ntfs boot loader but knoppix cannot access properly the ntfs file system to continue the boot...

1) Did someone successfully have boot knoppix from the ISO file image ?
If yes how ? The cheat code bootfrom=/dev/hda1/*.iso did not work for me.

2) Did someone successfully have boot knoppix from a NTFS partition having in its root
either the loopback file /knoppix/knoppix or the iso file?
If yes how ? I tried to add the ntfs.o and add some debug in the linuxrc in the miniroot.gz but
it still doesn't work and I cannot figure it out yet ...
Please advise, Thanks...

[j.drake]

Try bootfrom=/dev/hda1/k*.iso

Not sure why it would make a difference, but this is what the cheatcode said, and it worked for me (although I wasn't using an NTFS partition)

HTH
jd

[ruymbeke]

Try bootfrom=/dev/hda1/k*.iso
Not sure why it would make a difference, but this is what the cheatcode said, and it worked for me (although I wasn't using an NTFS partition)
HTH
jd

I tried and it doesn't work. May I ask you for the exact syntax (all the keywords) you used to boot knoppix ? what kernel and initrd did you use ?
What is the length in bytes of the files you used ?
Thanks GvR

[j.drake]

I didn't do that, I just used the CD to get the boot prompt, then entered the bootcode. In my case, it was knoppix26 home=/dev/hdb5 myconf=/dev/sda1 bootfrom=/dev/hdb1/k*.iso

I must have misunderstood your question, because I thought you were asking about the command itself. Sorry I couldn't help more. I'm actually trying to work on booting from USB drive.

jd

[eco2geek]

(For the sake of brevity, assume I changed the name of the ISO file to "Knoppix.iso" -- "KNOPPIX_V3.4-2004-05-17-EN.iso" is just too long to type. )

You have to:

• Use Knoppix v3.4 -- the bootfrom cheatcode won't work with earlier versions.
• Make sure you specify the right hard drive and partition. "hda1" tells Knoppix to use the first partition on the master drive on your primary IDE channel.
• Make sure you tell Knoppix the entire path to the ISO. In other words, if you saved it as C:\Knoppix\Knoppix.iso (on hda1), you have to tell Knoppix it's located at /dev/hda1/Knoppix/Knoppix.iso.
• Either boot from the Knoppix CD, or from boot floppies.

For example, to boot Knoppix

• using the 2.6 kernel,
• disabling APM,
• using ALSA,
• loading saved configs off the second partition on my hard drive (hda2),
• using a persistent home dir from a USB thumb drive (sda1), and
• loading the Knoppix image off my NTFS partition, where it's saved as C:\Knoppix\Knoppix.iso,

the entire boot line would look like this:

boot: knoppix26 bootfrom=/dev/hda1/Knoppix/Knoppix.iso noapm alsa myconf=/dev/hda2 home=/dev/sda1/knoppix.img

(I've been trying to get Knoppix to boot entirely from the NTFS partition using GRUB. Haven't been successful yet. It still wants to look at the loop file on the CD before it switches and loads it off the NTFS partition.)

[eco2geek]

Hey! Just got it to work with no CD! (Posting from it now.) The drawback is that the loopback file (the big /KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX file on the CD) has to be on another partition.

So, here's how it looks:

The Knoppix ISO ("KNOPPIX.iso"), the kernel ("linux26"), and "minirt26" are saved in C:\KNOPPIX. The loopback file is saved on the 2nd partition (it's got Kanotix on it, formatted as ext2) as /KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX.

The GRUB stanza that loads it:

# For booting Knoppix off the hard disk
title Boot Knoppix 3.4 from hard disk
kernel (hd0,0)/KNOPPIX/linux26 fromhd=/dev/hda2 bootfrom=/dev/hda1/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX.iso lang=us keyboard=us alsa
initrd (hd0,0)/KNOPPIX/minirt26.gz

Trying to have the loopback file and the ISO on the same partition isn't working...

Anyway, if you had a 1GB thumbdrive to put the loopback file on, and put the ISO on your NTFS partition, looks like you could boot that way. ("Poor man's install"? How much does a 1GB thumbdrive cost? )

<edit>
Further experimentation reveals that if you've got a 2nd ext2 partition, and the loopback file saved as /KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX on it, you don't have to have the ISO on the NTFS partition at all -- you can just boot it using the "fromhd=/dev/hda2" code and omit the "bootfrom=" code.

But then you can't restore your saved configs from hda2, since you've booted from the loopback file on hda2. (I still maintain that saved configs, persistent home dirs, and whatnot all have to be loaded from separate partitions.)

In other words, still looking for a way to boot Knoppix from just one NTFS partition without having to have the Knoppix CD in the drive.

Now if you had a big enough thumb drive...
</edit>

[ruymbeke]

I have been able to boot knoppix 3.4 from the loop back file system image
file being on a logical fat32 partition using Grub 0.95 + the grub4dos patch. Grub was loaded from the boot.ini of the XP boot loader being on the primary and active NTFS partition. Yes grub can now be loaded from a NTFS partition and do not need to have it's stage1 in the master boot record of the disk !
I am trying now to boot knoppix entirely out of a single NTFS partition without CD, floppy nor any change in the disk mbr... I am looking for the minimum amount of changes to get a very easy and safe knoppix boot. Grub does a great job so far to load the kernel and the ramdisk from the NTFS partition but knoppix hangs when the linuxrc is looking for the loopback file system what ever it is included within the iso file or not. I have added the ntfs.o within the miniroot.gz and modified the linuxrc to have a chance to mount the ntfs. This is where I am right now and don't know how to move forward. Please advise. Thanks, Gilles

[eco2geek]

You might have better luck asking on the Knoppix developers' mailing list.

(Looks like NTFS is the only file system Knoppix won't boot from this way.)

Topologilinux also has a version of "GRUB for Windows" that uses the NT boot loader. It's great.

[ruymbeke]

You might have better luck asking on the Knoppix developers' mailing list.
(Looks like NTFS is the only file system Knoppix won't boot from this way.)
Topologilinux also has a version of "GRUB for Windows" that uses the NT boot loader. It's great.

I will give it a try. Thanks !

[j.drake]

I have been able to boot knoppix 3.4 from the loop back file system image
file being on a logical fat32 partition using Grub 0.95 + the grub4dos patch. Grub was loaded from the boot.ini of the XP boot loader being on the primary and active NTFS partition. Yes grub can now be loaded from a NTFS partition and do not need to have it's stage1 in the master boot record of the disk !
I am trying now to boot knoppix entirely out of a single NTFS partition without CD, floppy nor any change in the disk mbr... I am looking for the minimum amount of changes to get a very easy and safe knoppix boot. Grub does a great job so far to load the kernel and the ramdisk from the NTFS partition but knoppix hangs when the linuxrc is looking for the loopback file system what ever it is included within the iso file or not. I have added the ntfs.o within the miniroot.gz and modified the linuxrc to have a chance to mount the ntfs. This is where I am right now and don't know how to move forward. Please advise. Thanks, Gilles

Gilles,

Would you mind going into a little more detail on what you did? I'm thinking that maybe you can help me! I'm very interested, but a bit confused. If you or other posters get a chance, I posted a question of my own here http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...?p=53064#53064 , and I could sure use whatever help I can get on booting a "fromhd" poor man's using a USB thumbdrive. Booting from CD is wicked slick, but I sure would like to do the USB thing. OTOH, with what you're doing, sounds like I wouldn't even need it (of course, I'm still very reluctant to mess with Windows bootloader)

Eco2Geek, if you're still peeking in, please stop by and weigh in on this also (along with anyone else willing to help).

jd