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Thread: Eloquent Poor-mans Install

  1. #1
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    Eloquent Poor-mans Install

    Knoppix 3.4 ( Poor-man's ) HD install

    This refers to Knoppix 3.4 (17.05.04) , which differs from previous versions ( so much of the Forum advice is incorrect/confusing ) ; booting from floppy with Linloader to a saved image on a Hd partition . It requires 2 ( or 3 ) partitions , but MAY be possible with one ... more of which later ... but ....I'm leaving well enough alone at this point !!!!!
    The advantages of such an arrangement are that you use a floppy ( which can be easily manually extracted/editted ) as opposed to a CDR , to boot ..... if you've only one CDROM , you can still use it . The image is compressed , so the ~700 Mb it occupies , gives ~2Gb of software .... handy on smaller drives , and certainly less than the ~4 Gb a real HD install would involve .... it's faster , and not potentially damaging your liveCD ... which is now kept as a master ...

    TO DO .... In Ms Explorer , create , at the root of a partition ( let's e.g. use G: [hda8]) a folder entitled 'Knoppix' .
    From your liveCD , copy the file Knoppix from ?X:\Knoppix\
    and linux24 and minirt24.gz from ?X:\boot\isolinux to your new Knoppix folder . ( for the 2.4.6 kernel ..... choose the '26' ones for the 2.6.x kernel )
    From here http://www.knoppix.net/docs/index.php/tools you can obtain loadlin 1.6c , extract and place the .exe in your folder ....
    You're now done with your parent directory .
    To boot to it , you'll need a floppy , a Win98 system floppy ( NOT startup disc ) . In Explorer , RC your A: drive /Format/select Copy System Files . Use your present config.sys , or this may be helpful on older machines


    Device=C:\Windows\Himem.Sys /Testmem:Off
    Device=C:\Windows\Emm386.Exe Noems
    Dos=High,Umb

    The autoexec.bat file you will create is critical , because it will pass booting arguments to the kernel loader .... i.e. it's where you put your cheat codes ....but in a VERY certain order , I've discovered .....

    To get a clean boot , I'd suggest use

    G:
    cd G:\Knoppix
    loadlin linux24 fromhd=/dev/hda8 ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init initrd=minirt24.gz quiet lang=us vga=normal BOOT_IMAGE=Knoppix

    Notes : MY folder is on G:\Knoppix ( hda8 ) adjust the 'G' and '8' to suit ....

    This differs from Klaus's default lilo argument

    DEFAULT linux24
    APPEND ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init lang=us apm=power-off vga=791 initrd=minirt24.gz nomce quiet BOOT_IMAGE=knoppix
    TIMEOUT 300

    to avoid unsupported video modes ( vga=normal ) , and I've reordered , to allow less confusing entry of persistent home , and saved configuration arguments .... which we're coming to ( it's very order-critical ).

    SUMMARY :

    One folder on HD containing knoppix
    linux24
    minirt24.gz
    loadlin.exe

    One floppy containing autoexec.bat
    config.sys ( optional )
    io.sys
    command.com
    msdos.sys

    To boot , insert floppy and restart your machine .....

    Welcome to Knoppix !!!!

    Now , we get on to ensuring your configuration is saved .... which is , unfortunately , a two-part process ..... and , in my hands , a very certain order is needed .
    ( Persistent Home and Saveconfig save different data , with apparent overlap ..... you'll need both [ Saveconfig , alone , stores your user/password details and other critical stuff , Persistent Home , alone , stores not only data , but some configuration material , not saved by Saveconfig ]..... you'll need both )

    SO ..... configure to your heart's content , and create a Perstistent Home ( Knoppix -> Configure -> Create a persistent KNOPPIX home directory ) on a different partition ( I've used hda7 ) . It's far easier if you DON'T use all of the partition , or encryt your file .
    Browse , in Konqueror , to your floppy , open ( in KWrite) autoexec.bat , and add the line home=/dev/hda7 or home=/dev/hda7/knoppix.img EXACTLY here

    G:
    cd G:\Knoppix
    loadlin linux24 fromhd=/dev/hda8 ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init initrd=minirt24.gz quiet HOME=/DEV/HDA7 lang=us vga=normal BOOT_IMAGE=Knoppix

    ( capitilized to highlight ... enter in lower-case )

    REBOOT to test .... you'll have to retweak , including setting root password , user details , printer services .....
    NOW , you can Saveconfig ( Knoppix -> Configure -> Save KNOPPIX configuration ) , in my example to hda6 .... but it works quite happily on hda7 ( i.e. the same as Persistent Home ) ..

    Add the line config=/dev/hda6 to autoexec.bat


    G:
    cd G:\Knoppix
    loadlin linux24 fromhd=/dev/hda8 ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init initrd=minirt24.gz quiet home=/dev/hda7 CONFIG=/DEV/HDA6 lang=us vga=normal BOOT_IMAGE=Knoppix


    ( capitilized to highlight ... enter in lower-case )

    Do be very EXACT ... the wrong order can provoke boot failure , kernel panic , slow packing/unpacking from configs.tbz , and weird German messages , both on booting , and throughout KDE !!!!! You really don't want to know ......

    BUT ... you are able to save , and change , your boot arguments , by editting autoexec.bat

    And that's her .... one advantage is that hda7 ( the persistent home ) is mounted rw .... so other data on it can be accessed .. say to autostart something ... like modem driver installation .... ( my next revelation )
    I haven't tried , but with precise path labelling , you may be able to get the whole enchilada on one partition ( part of the complication is that your boot image , and your persistent home are both saved as Knoppix.img ) . With the PH in root , and the image in a folder , a precise path may differentiate the two .....

    e.g. fromhd=/dev/hda8/knoppix
    home=/dev/hda8
    or home=/dev/hda8/knoppix.img

    DO be enjoying the Knoppix .....


  2. #2
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    Thanks for the update. Since the documentation is held in a wiki, you may want to edit the page you found confusing, if only to link to this very page in the case of knoppix 3.4.

    One important precision, though: correct me if I am wrong, but I think poor man's install still only applies for win9x on a fat filesystem (C: or other)...

  3. #3
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    Well, actually, using the bootflags "tohd" and "fromhd" do the same thing as a poorman's. No floppy is required - just use the live CD to get the Knoppix bootprompt. The only difficulty (if you want to call it that) is in booting from something other than the live CD (e.g., floppy or USB). The old WIKI info is outdated and does not appear to be compatible with 3.4, as far as I can tell, but for me, just using the live CD to enter the fromhd flag works well enough.


    I was planning to do some work on the WIKI myself, but I got sidetracked with booting with a USB key, and other stuff came up.

    jd

  4. #4
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    Hi gentlemen ,

    You are so right re: needing an FAT32 ( ??FAT 16 ) partition ... though I understand you can run Win XP on FAT32 ( as a choice when formatting ) ... but most XP systems come preinstalled on NTFS ....
    and jd , I guess I'm just lazy , but I chose to avoid that typing everytime at boot .... and I prefer a floopy over CD .. at least I can get it out , if the system throws a wobble !!!!!
    I would thank you both , in that perusing your thoughts , and testing them , has lead to my solutions ...

    Cheers ...

  5. #5
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    This use of Loadlin looks a very good idea.

    I tried it but didn’t get past first base. When I tried to boot up with the initial boot floppy I got:

    Kernel Panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 01:03

    I took away the ‘quiet’ parameter from the autoexec.bat and found that immediately before the Kernel Panic I had the message:

    FAT: bogus logical sector size 0.

    My hard drive has 3 partitions (C:, D:, E: in Windows). I have placed the \KNOPPIX directory on my E: drive so my autoexec.bat says:

    E:
    cd E:\KNOPPIX
    loadlin linux24 fromhd=/dev/hda6 ramdisk_size=100000 init=/etc/init initrd=minirt24.gz quiet lang=uk vga=normal BOOT_IMAGE=KNOPPIX

    I assume the loadlin and everything after is all one DOS line.

    My machine has 128MB RAM. Is this insufficient to cope with the ramdisk_size above?

    I must admit I find the mixing of Knoppix cheat codes and loadlin options very strange, as well as some items, (ramdisk_size, init, BOOT_IMAGE) which appear to be neither.

    It would be nice to understand the Knoppix boot process and what these parameters are. Then perhaps problems can be resolved by thought, rather than trial and error.

    Any ideas.

  6. #6
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    loadlin will only work with fat(32); perhaps that's your problem?

    BOOT_IMAGE=KNOPPIX is not meaningful nor needed for loadlin and was probably just copied from the CD's isolinux.cfg. The rest are kernel parameters mereley passed on from loadlin to the kernel being launched.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by j.drake
    Well, actually, using the bootflags "tohd" and "fromhd" do the same thing as a poorman's. No floppy is required - just use the live CD to get the Knoppix bootprompt. The only difficulty (if you want to call it that) is in booting from something other than the live CD (e.g., floppy or USB).
    jd
    Can I ask if the following is at all possible.

    When I install Fedora I never install grub on the MBR, always on "/" partition.

    I then do a,
    Code:
    dd if=/dev/hda6 of=/fedora.lnx bs=512 count=1
    This creates for me an image file with grub, which I then use with my XP bootloader.

    In boot.ini I have something like this.
    Code:
    [boot loader]
    timeout=5
    default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
    [operating systems]
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect
    c:\fedora.lnx="FEDORA CORE 1"
    When I restart my PC I choose "FEDORA CORE 1" from the menu and it launches for me grub which I then use to launch Fedora.

    Can I somehow launch Knoppix with this method? I would like to only have my laptop and not have to carry the CD or USB or floppy with me.

    Is it possible to create an image file of the Knoppix prompt? If my assumption is correct that is all I require to launch the compressed Knoppix image from my FAT32 partition.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jx3000
    Is it possible to create an image file of the Knoppix prompt? If my assumption is correct that is all I require to launch the compressed Knoppix image from my FAT32 partition.
    Bump.
    Anyone reading this thread topic?

    Anyone know the answer to my question in previous post?

  9. #9
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    Hi,
    Quote Originally Posted by jx3000
    Is it possible to create an image file of the Knoppix prompt? If my assumption is correct that is all I require to launch the compressed Knoppix image from my FAT32 partition.
    have you seen

    http://www.knoppix.net/forum/viewtop...r=asc&start=30

    I can launch the knoppix/knoppix file just copied from the CD to any windows type partition on my HD.
    My newbie troubles were with grub, but you seem to have that covered already.

    HTH

    thomas

  10. #10
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    Re: Eloquent Poor-mans Install

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr PC Tunes
    [...]
    The autoexec.bat file you will create is critical , because it will pass booting arguments to the kernel loader .... i.e. it's where you put your cheat codes ....but in a VERY certain order , I've discovered .....
    Maybe it was only a problem with the DOS line length. I did RTFM after I've noticed that loadlin has cut some parameters:
    Quote Originally Posted by In the loadlin manual, Hans Lermen
    4.1 Maximum length of the command line
    ----------------------------------

    The length of a DOS command line can be 127 bytes (including
    the program name). With a params file (@param)
    the length of the string passed to the kernel can in theory be
    2047 bytes, but the string is held in a temporary place and must
    be copied by the kernel to a save static buffer in init/main.
    This forces the maximum length to a compiled-in constant, which
    currently is 256 bytes.
    If you need a greater size, you can simply change COMMAND_LINE_SIZE
    in arch/i386/kernel/setup.c.
    Bye,

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