Ver 3.4 observation

**CrashedAgain** · 08-19-2004, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by ICPUG

Crashed Again suggests the use of LILO for booting. While LILO does the job, everything I have read about it suggests newbies should avoid it like the plague. It seems to want to go on the MBR and, of course, Windows demands its boot goes there as well. Other posts suggest it can be done but I have seen enough posts which say Help - I have lost my MBR/ Cannot boot Windows anymore that I do not think this is the first line of attack. Much more experience is needed to use LILO.

I too have seen posts about users who have had lilo 'screw up their MBR' although I have never had any problems. Perhaps this is because I have older machines & use Win98 & ME not XP and not NTFS. I don't think lilo is difficult at all, in fact it was one of the first script edits I ever made (at the time I was "proudly using Linux since last Tuesday"). Yes the default is to go on the MBR but you must put some sort of loader on the MBR if you are going to boot direct from the HD. I could write a step by step but part of the problem is that systems may vary & a detailed step by step would be specificy to only one configuration. And it wouldn't help if the potential user is reluctant because of concerns about screwing up the MBR.

Because I use the Live CD as a boot-up device I am all fingers and thumbs at start up. ...Now, this can be achieved on my 350Mhz Pentium, but will it work when I get a faster machine!

Just rememeber you can hit the big red button before the machine boots without screwing anything up.

Excellent summary of what has been said BTW.

**satyre** · 08-30-2004, 10:01 PM

Hi all,

Reading this post was a great experience for me as a window user only tired of MS since way back....

I really beleive that it's now possible for a basic Window user with some guts, to switch to UNIX without any problems if of course, it's correctly installed !

The graphic interface and all the programs included with knoppix 3.4 is in my opinion a superb challenger/solution for XP and the future MS B.S.

I've HD mounted an old pentium 450, with basically nothing on it with 3.4 and I sure would recommended it to any window HOME USERS and would even install it for them ! ... But looking at these posts and seeing simples question turn-out as incredible big issues and/or B....t-licking, i'm not quite sure that the HOME users could deal with that one way or the other....

You guys should maybe ask yourself this simple question : Why is it so easy now ? Why is it so easy for a french-canadian , why is it so easy for a simple and quite stupid user of windows like me to have the guts to HD install knoppix on a machine without any knowlege ( or poor ) and it seems to work even better than any version on Windows that I know since 3.1 on this computer ? Why is that ?

Unix has become an incredible OS better than anything i've seen and should start to be available to the HOME USERS..... Just look at knoppix 3.4 with the eyes of a HOME USER and you will see that Windows XP can not compare to that....

The reason for this post is, instead of saying:

go/fuck/yourself/you're/an/asshole

I/dont/really/care

Because/I know/everything/

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Unix experts should consider at least the Graphic interface, GNU or wathever you call it.... and be able to explain it in that matter... DOS, MSDOS commands only, would never had generated the computers that we have today, the net and all de B.S that comes with Microsoft.....

I'm on knoppix.net website right now and expeting to find some answers on the Garphic interface of version 3.4.......... Why use Basics commands when everything is there and in image ?

Makes me remember a time as a kid when pros would prefer to use DOS and call windows.....

DOS who became MSDOS....

C: GOFUCKYOURSELF.exe was a religion at the time ! LOLLLLLLLLLL

Untill Bill Got DOS for himself thanks to IBM.... Dont do the same thing guys, the HOME USERS are the ROOT of this great invention that is open source and UNIX.....

Sincerely.......

**j.drake** · 08-31-2004, 12:18 AM

Maybe there's a misunderstanding here. At first, I thought you were ranting and flaming and not making much sense, and then I saw this post of yours, where you are apologizing for your English and begging people not to flame you, so I re-read your post.

I think, if I'm understanding you correctly, that you're criticizing the very efforts you are requesting. What I tried to do was to set up an explanation for a poor man's installation option, using the graphical interface exclusively. Prior to what I wrote, instructions on setting up this option were either outdated, or relied upon the text console, or required finding or installing external components. I wanted to simplify the process for people accustomed to Windows, but more importantly, for people who still rely upon Windows.

I'm delighted that you found the installation of Knoppix to your hd to be easy, and that you are glad to be rid of Windows. But that simply isn't the case for some. Many people share computers with family members who exclusively use Windows, or rely on Windows. As such, they can't afford to mess up Windows with a dual boot installation, which is quite often the case.

There are plenty of spots giving instructions on hdinstallation. Now there is an alternative, using, as you requested, the graphical interface. I saw fit to thank people who helped and supported me, and some of them said nice things to me as well. I appreciate that. If you don't like places where linux people tell you to "go f-- yourself", then you should probably be more appreciative of civility of this forum when you find it.

jd

**A. Jorge Garcia** · 08-31-2004, 01:23 AM

???

**psterrett** · 12-24-2004, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by richg

Thank you for the reply but I will stick with Linspire. I suppose the Knoppix site has a disclamer that Knoppix runs "only" of the cd so I must have missed it. KANOTIX I am not aware of and I am leary of the support. As I said in the first post, I am not a techie so I will stick with what I know.
I will unsubscribe after this reply.

Cheers

Richard

Translation: (as Eric Cartman) Screw you guys, I'm going home.

**Harry Kuhman** · 12-24-2004, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by ICPUG

Crashed Again suggests the use of LILO for booting. While LILO does the job, everything I have read about it suggests newbies should avoid it like the plague. It seems to want to go on the MBR and, of course, Windows demands its boot goes there as well. Other posts suggest it can be done but I have seen enough posts which say Help - I have lost my MBR/ Cannot boot Windows anymore that I do not think this is the first line of attack. Much more experience is needed to use LILO.

I agree LILO has some problems. But I think the bigger set of problems comes from "scripts" that try to install Knoppix (never really intended for installing on a hard drive) and do a less than perfect job of deciding where to put things, with the dsasterous results you mention. Normal Linux installers give you an option to put Lilo on the MBR or on the partition that Linux is on. What I suggest doing is to install Lilo (or Grub) to the Linux partition. Next install Smart Boot Manager or XOSL as a boot manager. This will let you boot your MS OS, Linux, CD's, floppies, and, should you have them, other operatings systems as well.

**CrashedAgain** · 12-24-2004, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by psterrett

richg wrote:

Thank you for the reply but I will stick with Linspire. I suppose the Knoppix site has a disclamer that Knoppix runs "only" of the cd so I must have missed it. KANOTIX I am not aware of and I am leary of the support. As I said in the first post, I am not a techie so I will stick with what I know.
I will unsubscribe after this reply.

Cheers

Richard

Translation: (as Eric Cartman) Screw you guys, I'm going home.

From the date of the original post probably richg is long gone.

Recent news:

Kanotix BH-X apparently has a new option 'fromiso' so you can boot into a copy of the iso image on the HD without having to install ANYTHING. I expect this will appear in Knoppix soon.

There were problems with doing a poormans install on XP (because of the Linux/NTFS write issue) which should be overcome with 'fromiso'.

Haven't tried it yet & probably won't, I don't have XP & even if I did I would do a dual boot instead but consider that poormans install, persistent home and klik have all appeared in a little more than a year. New developments do keep coming .

**A. Jorge Garcia** · 12-24-2004, 02:47 PM

Isn't there a knoppix fromhd cheat code?

Regards,
AJG

**CrashedAgain** · 12-24-2004, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by A. Jorge Garcia

Isn't there a knoppix fromhd cheat code?

Regards,
AJG

Yes but 'fromhd' is different from 'fromiso'. A fromhd install extacts the files from the iso image on the CD & copies to HD which means you must write to CD even if it's NTFS.
A 'fromiso' install just boots directly into a copy of the iso image on the HD which can be downloaded by NT so no writing from Linux to NTFS is needed.

**Harry Kuhman** · 12-24-2004, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by CrashedAgain

Yes but 'fromhd' is different from 'fromiso'. A fromhd install extacts the files from the iso image on the CD & copies to HD which means you must write to CD even if it's NTFS.
A 'fromiso' install just boots directly into a copy of the iso image on the HD which can be downloaded by NT so no writing from Linux to NTFS is needed.

Actually, it's tohd that writes to HD. fromhd is documented as Boot from previously copied CD-Image.