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Thread: Drivers for Linux: Great article

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gowator
    Its often said that *bsd is a programmers/developers OS, designed as a programmer would wheras linux is a hackers OS...
    Its pretty true and the hackers roots of linux still show .. but at the same time are what give linux its dynamics!
    The way I always heard it was that BSD is for people who love UNIX - Linux is for people who hate Microsoft.

    jd

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gowator
    The wifi problem is a special problem for opensource and is due to FCC regulations .. so dont blame linux blame your government regulators.
    I've been out of that end of things for decades, but I'm pretty sure FCC regulations still only apply to the r.f. emissions of a contraption. To the extent that software drivers could make a wi-fi transmitter interfere with other devices, FCC regulations may have some bearing on software. I would imagine, though, that wi-fi manufacturers have designed their hardware to make it nigh unto impossible for hackers to turn it into a jammer. No, the problem you're complaining about isn't the fault of government regulators. It must be in Linux.

    Quote Originally Posted by j.drake
    Most people choosing an OS don't care who's to blame - they only care what works. Blaming doesn't get anyone anywhere.
    .
    .

    Excuses are for losers, and the linux community needs to decide whether or not it's satisfied with pointing fingers and making excuses, or whether it wants the OS to reach its potential.
    Obviously Mr. Knopper has done about as much as anyone to further Linux' potential. In fact, Knoppix brings a whole new way to use computers: instead of the OS trying to be all things to everyone, all at once, now we can have applications-on-a disc which run from the CD independent of the OS on the hard drive. Like a gameboy or playstation, but not limited to games.

    If Knoppmyth would run direct from the CD instead of requiring to be installed on the hard drive, it would be a perfect example of what I'm trying to get at. You would only need a hard drive with a lot of empty space on it, and a TV tuner card, available to the computer. Just boot the Knoppmyth CD and presto, you have a PVR. That particular computer application wouldn't require a lot of the stuff that is on the Knoppix CD, so it could be left out.

    It might not be quite that easy, and it wouldn't work on every computer, but I sure think the idea of applications-on-a-CD has a lot of potential, since Knoppix' hardware detection and configuration showed the way..

    Knoppix in effect already offers another application-on-a-CD: the internet appliance. Remember a few years ago several companies made a box you could use to surf the web and get your e-mail with, because that's all most people use their computer for. The beauty of the idea was partly its intended ease of use. Mr. Knopper has made the idea a reality, without really even trying to. When I boot the Knoppix CD it automatically senses my Zoom 5001 PCI card cable modem - a rare bird - and configures everything. All I have to do to get online is click on the browser icon at the bottom of the screen. Getting my e-mail from my ISP is a bit more complicated, but if I can figure it out without resorting to phone calls or notes, anyone can.

    I don't mean to say that Mr. Knopper shouldn't continue to develop Knoppix as a general-purpose OS, but that it can be used for more than just that.

  3. #23
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    J. D. - it's me again
    I can't let this happen uncommented:
    that linux needs to take in order to be a viable desktop replacement for Windows, at both the home and enterprise level.
    Linux was meant as a unix for the 386.
    That time, windows was having heavy problems with upper memory (>640 k) and multithreading.

    Linux was never meant (and hopefully will never be) a windows-replacement.
    Later you write 'windows alternative'.
    That's much better.
    You see the difference?

    Replacement!
    For Windows!
    Ts, ts, ts, ...
    ---
    don't visit my homepage:http://home/arcor.de/hirnstrom/

  4. #24
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    I like the idea of a central driver database. But I think that it would be a good idea to download the source code and auto compile & install rather then downloading binaries. This would help with the difference between platforms, kernels, API's etc. Though might take a bit longer.

    Basicly a source apt-get for drivers (complete with the abiltiy to download and install dependencies.)


    BTW is there anything that can track installed soruces so I can remove them easily like apt-get? If not, what files do I need to keep to be able to do a make uninstall?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by user unknown
    J. D. - it's me again
    I can't let this happen uncommented:
    that linux needs to take in order to be a viable desktop replacement for Windows, at both the home and enterprise level.
    Linux was meant as a unix for the 386.
    That time, windows was having heavy problems with upper memory (>640 k) and multithreading.

    Linux was never meant (and hopefully will never be) a windows-replacement.
    Later you write 'windows alternative'.
    That's much better.
    You see the difference?

    Replacement!
    For Windows!
    Ts, ts, ts, ...
    ---
    don't visit my homepage:http://home/arcor.de/hirnstrom/
    UU, I understand. If nothing else, I have to respect you as one of the most incredibly principled persons I've encountered online (not to mention that your knowledge of linux is nearly encyclopedic). But, and I don't mean this as an insult, I've noticed that you're somewhat inflexible For example, it's a BFD to you if someone posts with an imperfect subject line. Sure, it's better to use an accurate subject, but c'mon, this is nearly obsessive. It is now 2004, and I don't think that anyone but you cares that linux was designed to run on a 386. Things evolve. That "subject line" (speaking metaphorically) has been permanently hijacked. Linux is about a lot of things now, and the opportunity is there to fully develop its potential. What we should be caring about is providing an awesome, free windows alternative. And, yes, now that you mention it, I can see the difference between replacement and alternative, but that's kind of nitpicky, IMO.

    jd

  6. #26
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    You talk about an easy to use linux.
    Fine.
    And an easy to use forum means: Spent some time in finding an good subject-line.
    Have respect on the resources of other persons.

    I try to avoid clicking on 'help me with this' - subjects, but sometimes I get too angry, and I guess it's right.
    A good subject can show immediatly: Here I can perhaps give a good advice. And there I surely can't give a hint - it's out of my scope.
    And someone searching for 'mount usb' will find faster - perhaps find at all, that his question was answered.
    And it needn't be answered again.
    You may not even link to previous threads, if you don't find them.

    The accurate subject-line is a kind of precompiled binary
    ---
    Let's come to more interesting question, why I'm interested in the roots of linux.
    It's a question of tradition. And tradition has to do with the culture - where do we come from? Who we are.
    What's the identity of linux?

    When I don't like the rain, it's not getting more sympathic when I know how it works, where it comes from. It will still be annoying in some cases.
    But without understanding the phenomen I'm more helpless, than after understanding.

    And it's interesting to study the history of windows too - how they bought a foreign system and sold it to IBM, how IBM became a standard, and DOS too, how windows evolved.

    Without knowing the history, it would be hard to explain, how windows, the system of viruses, worms and bluescreens became marketleader, while the free and more stable linux-system was mostly ignored by industry and manufactors of hardware.

    The decisions in the linux-development are mostly made from developers, not by marketing managers. And those have a very different culture, believings and intentions.

    I don't know a sparc64 or an alpha - I wouldn't identify them, unless it's written on their front.
    But seeing my programs running on a linux on these machines is goal enough for me, to study autoconf/ automake and build a classical, linux-tarball-source.
    Newbies don't know 'configure; make; make install'?
    Well - time to learn it.
    It's not really a harder issue than click on install, click on accept license, click here and there.

    I get the new kernel-patches about every two months now.
    I don't have to recompile something else, but if I needed, I could without downloading a binary again.
    Would a hardware-vendor give away his binaries for all the platforms (20) where linux is running? Probably not.
    A marketing man wouldn't bother.
    You wouldn't too.
    A developer would.

    Break linux-compatibility for a binary of vendor X?
    Linux became as strong as it is today avoiding binaries. It's its strength.
    While developers change, the source stays.

    If your manufactor get's insolvent, no new binary will be released, and you're stuck to your 4-5 years old kernel, supporting that binary, which makes your expensive printer work. For example.

    It's hard in the beginning, when you install linux for the first time, and have a lot of hardware, bought without thinking of linux.
    Later we look for opensource-drivers before we buy.
    The more people are going to buy opensource-driven hardware, the more pressure is made for the industrie. I guess the movements in the servermarket are showing, that linux is getting stronger from year to year.
    An computer discount will try to present some lowcost knoppixfriendly printer, when more and more clients ask for them, and the concurent next street has one.

    Here the developer - who likes to buy a linux-driven modem, -printer, -usbcam gets interested in marketing aspects.
    But it's not the primary goal.

    I wrote some opensource programs.
    No hardware drivers.
    I don't have 20 system-architectures available to test the program (while - I guess - the gcc can cross-compile for them).
    Well - no problem.
    I give away the source, and if there are problems, the user may debug it by himself.

    What a wonderful world!

    The signature-attachment doesn't work for me here, but a firefox-plugin came with source. Found a good place to add my primitive method, and voila!
    ---
    don't visit my homepage:http://home.arcor.de/hirnstrom/

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by j.drake
    Quote Originally Posted by gowator
    Its often said that *bsd is a programmers/developers OS, designed as a programmer would wheras linux is a hackers OS...
    Its pretty true and the hackers roots of linux still show .. but at the same time are what give linux its dynamics!
    The way I always heard it was that BSD is for people who love UNIX - Linux is for people who hate Microsoft.

    jd
    thats prob true too.

    Im not trying to be elitist...my driver never worked although I did learn a lot about the linux usb stack trying and my work was used by others...
    What Im trying to point out is what you were originally suggesting with drivers is the way BSD and Mac do it and Windows cludges it.
    It really needs a microkernel to work like BSD and that is a compete (and I mean complete) change to the present kernel structure.

    Usability means different things to different people but remember how brainwashed using one paradigm for years makes you.
    We changed to notes at work and everyone was lost becuase the icons and menu's are not MS ones.... yet this is just a mail client..but all of us that used windows for years are brainwashed into thinking thats how things are done.

    I stopped using MS about 7 years ago and now I find XP unfriendly...
    but 7 years ago I was using slackware 2 which was almost nothing like any present linux (except LFS)
    I used Macs at uni ages ago now (1991 my masters graduation) and I used to find it incredibly frustrating when it refused to do something trying to be too clever like telling me it had letter paper not a4 ... at the time this was way beyond Windows, now its usual...

    at work I print and someone has changedf the printer paper, I dont have permissions to delete the job so I have to walk 1/2 mile down a corridor to hit a cancel button....

    some things are genuinely useful additions but others are just seemingly useful ...
    talking winblows for instance .. clippy drives me mad




    Flash00: the problem is that the user must NOT be able to modify the power and releasing sourcecode contravenes that which is why they need binary firmware that is loaded and things like driverloader are needed to load them....

    its just a freak of wording I think and the FCC didnt mean this to be the effect...but having said that they are not trying to correct it either.

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