Infomation Technology turning into business...

[chris-harry]

who of you high school students have rather noticed that the board of education has changed the information technology more into business... for example, instead of problem solving, problem fixing, programing, working an OS from the inside, we are learning, HOW TO TYPE IN EXCELL, what makes a company work, what is data and information (FOR THE LOVE OF PEACE!!!)...

i hate that... thats why i am not doing information technology any more, its not technology...

To sum up what i am saying in a sentance
what good is learning about how to run a business when you want to become a administrator of computers?

[CrashedAgain]

Stick with it c-h, you may end up running your own IT business some day then you will need all this basic business knowledge.

[jjmac]

CrashedAgain wrote:

>>
Stick with it c-h, you may end up running your own
IT business some day then you will need all this
basic business knowledge.
>>

Yes, i agree ...



chris-harry wrote:

>>
... we are learning, HOW TO TYPE IN
EXCELL ...
>>

Thats pretty much the case world wide. I think what's
going on, is that business often complains that
students can't immediately fit into the various
situations, as they actually exist, when they leave
school. They often need to be trained/retrained
to use the kind of tool that the business it self
is using. Which of course means you know what ...

I'm not sure how it goes over your way, but here in
Australia we have a system based on different progressive
levels. Upper high school is designed mainly
as a prep for Uni, so the courses there tend to be
incomplete, or inconclusive in themselves. Where
earlier years tend to be more designed to cover
basic requirements more.

But as a lot of people leave at the end of upper high
school, ie; they don't go on to uni, their education,
as it presents to business, tends to be seen as
too generic, or theoretical to be of immediately use.

The employer wants someone who can use Excell, and
think. They get someone who can't use Excell,
requiring training. which costs the employer money,
which they hate to spend. Actually, the thinking bit
can also be somewhat debatable as well, at times too .

It is a problem on both sides, and i certainly don't
agree with the system just becoming an unofficial
training ground in "how to use that OS". It also
shows just how big the struggle Linux has, in
making in roads, in to main stream business. The more
success along those lines, the more likely the
situation you mention will have a chance to change.

So they continually lobby the system to focus
more on work related training at the high school
level. And, over here at least, have been quite
successful at it.

As far as "what's the point", the post above hints
at that well enough ...

To deal with the beast, one must know the beast.
So, if you have that opportunity and you really
want to change things, stick with your course. It's
easier to effect change working from the inside,
rather than just yelling at the building from
outside. They'll just close the window, and call
the riot squad
in the end (ouch)


jm

[A. Jorge Garcia]

The problem is that most high schools lump computers in with the business department. Unfortunately, business teachers have little or no training in computer science, programming or any IT related topics at all! So all the student ends up doing is learning Word, Excell, etc... the whole M$ monopoly! Why don't you consider taking some Computer Science classes. Most high schools in my area offer a preAP Computer Math and AP Computer Science class. Barring that, sign up for a course or two at your local college!

Good Luck,
A. Jorge Garcia
Teacher & Professor
Applied Math & Computer Science
Baldwin High School & Nassau Community College
Long Island, NY, USA

[chris-harry]

nfortunately, business teachers have little or no training in computer science, programming or any IT related topics at all!

exactly... and we get inconfident teachers, and we really learn nothing till we get to uni, by then it is too late...

Stick with it c-h, you may end up running your own
IT business some day then you will need all this
basic business knowledge.

me run my own business... ahahaha... no offence but if i ever run a business it will crash like a rock thrown off the emperal state building... trust me... i am not a business man.

[CrashedAgain]

"me run my own business... ahahaha... no offence but if i ever run a business it will crash like a rock thrown off the emperal state building... trust me... i am not a business man".......yet.

You never know.......

[chris-harry]

"me run my own business... ahahaha... no offence but if i ever run a business it will crash like a rock thrown off the emperal state building... trust me... i am not a business man".......yet.

You never know.......

yeah, you never know... but, i doubt it... very much...

[j.drake]

C-H,

From what I understand B.Gates was kind of a f-up, but good at gambling and BSing. Don't know about your gambling, but we can definitely vouch for your BS skills.

Couple of observations.

[old fart mode]When I was in HS, it was computer math, dialing into a remote mainframe with a teletype and acoustic coupler. No, it wasn't enough, and those who were serious begged account numbers from whatever university they could and learned that way.[/old fart mode]

The fact that you are learning linux on your own probably places you in the 99th percentile of HS kids (a WAG, but I bet it's true).

If you stick with pure tech and are significantly better than your classmates, work hard, and are lucky, you may land a job earning $70-80k/year, depending where you locate (could be more, could be less). Stick with it, and if you are at the height of your skill and experience, and manage not to get laid off or outsourced, and your salary might increase to the point where you might even keep up with inflation. Eventually (maybe within 10 years or so), all the techical knowledge you learned in HS and college will be obsolete, and fresh hires will be cheaper than you, but have more current knowledge.

Add to that, that it you are a reasonably intelligent person, you will quickly discover that working in a tech capacity for a company can be terribly annoying, because all the important decisions about what the product will do, and act like, and the standard of quality, will be made by some clown with the all the technical acumen of my dog. Chances are that he (or she) made it through the required computer classes by begging help from geek friends. And, although that clown probably started at a salary lower than yours, his will probably be double yours in 10 years. Why? Because your success will be measured in k-locs and satisfaction surveys, while his will be measured by the numbers on the Excel spreadsheet that he puts on the screen using a PowerPoint presentation. Why? Because the important decisionmakers in the company who are watching his presentation used to be clowns like him.

Tech can be a lot of fun, and it's generally good to work at something you love, but pure tech can be a really dissatisfying career choice. I always felt that the other non-tech studies were a major imposition, but 23 years after graduation from college, I use the non-tech stuff more. Maybe I'm a little different because I figured this out shortly after graduation and went in another non-tech direction, but the non-tech stuff definitely comes in handy. OK, so maybe you can do the Excel stuff in your sleep, but I think you're going to find that you get out of life what you put into it. Go to the best schools you can, because your diploma is a credential, after all; but understand also that the value of school isn't the technical knowledge they give you - it's the experience of learning how to acquire and use knowledge on your own. You're doing that here already. I am too - my computer classes in HS were in BASIC (try doing something with that nowadays). Even in college, the high-power CS folks were using PASCAL on a mainframe. The tech knowledge isn't wasted merely because it's obsolete, but it is obsolete, after all. I'm here because I'm still learning, even as the paper on my diplomas turns as yellow as a banana.

My point here is not to depress everyone, but you need to stay rounded (tough for a banana, I know). Keep your mind open. What I'm doing now is so flipping far away from anything I ever imagined in HS or college, that I would have laughed dismissively at the mere thought. My guess is that it's that way for a lot of us. But if I had let the tunnel-vision goals of my youth keep me from getting the balance I needed to have options available to me later on, I might well feel trapped now.

As for your skepticism about ever running a business, that's an asset, not a disqualification. The worst business people are the ones who are too arrogant to accept the possibility of making a mistake. It takes some people years in the school of hard knocks to develop a sense of skepticism. Think what a head start you have on them!! There are lots of crazy bananas in the world who have done well in business, believe me. Confidence will come with experience.

It may be a very frightening thought to you now, Mr. Chris-Harry, but the best and most qualified teacher you will ever have in your entire life will be a crazy banana named Chris-Harry.

jd

[firebyrd10]

Ok, now I scared, the best teacher in my life will be me?
I'm scared, but, not surprised.

[chris-harry]

It may be a very frightening thought to you now, Mr. Chris-Harry, but the best and most qualified teacher you will ever have in your entire life will be a crazy banana named Chris-Harry. Rolling Eyes

nice way to put it j.drake... you have some very convincing points... so convincing i cant find a rebotal... yeah, there are some good things to business, yeah, maybe one day i will do something special that will need me to run a business. But, (i guess that i am afraid) that i wont run a business because, i am not the best leader out there... i have seen people who could tell the flies buzzing around then to drop dead.

my computer classes in HS were in BASIC (try doing something with that nowadays).

and i agree, stuff they teach us today will go outtadate latter on in life...

there are two main jobs where you will have to constantly learn new things everyday and if you dont. your not very good at it. Doctors and Professors/Teachers.

I'm here because I'm still learning, even as the paper on my diplomas turns as yellow as a banana.

learning is one way of keeping the mind fresh and young... that and maths... which (luckily), blends into programing... my fav. past time.

Add to that, that it you are a reasonably intelligent person, you will quickly discover that working in a tech capacity for a company can be terribly annoying, because all the important decisions about what the product will do, and act like, and the standard of quality, will be made by some clown with the all the technical acumen of my dog.... while his will be measured by the numbers on the Excel spreadsheet that he puts on the screen using a PowerPoint presentation, because the important decisionmakers in the company who are watching his presentation used to be clowns like him.

so true... its sad isnt it. why did Bill G. make all his money... because of his programing? *laughs really really hard*. If anyone remembers, when dos first came out it was a total washout. He made his trillions (or how much he really has (proberly a bigger number)), because he was a great business man. I respect him as a business man but not as a programer (even though he may be very good at it?) This is something i lack really badly... the ability to see things in a business point of view.