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Thread: "forum" versus "board"

  1. #1
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    "forum" versus "board"

    I'd ask that the labels on this site get fixed - change all occourences of "forum" to "board". You are obviously only running a discussion board here, this is something different.

    Of course this lie is intentional, as "forum" sounds much more appealing than "board" to many many people. The reason is, that most web users already have stumbled across so many of the latter class and besides what the "webmasters" try to think, they aren't cool in any way - a discussion hinderance to say the least. Ah yes, popularity and superiority are two different things (see Windows and Linux)!

    Why do I sound so impolite here?

    Easily answered, I'm frustrated that so many web sites still look like 1996 - forcing me to get yet another user account (had already trashed a hundred elsewhere) on a _discussion board_ that I only use once is somewhat impolite. This is not in the open source spirit at all, regardless of how you paint it or which pseudo excuses you have for that oh-we-need-to-build-a-community-with-many-thousand-user-accounts attitude.

  2. #2
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    Hi tmp000,

    I agree with you that it's a bit tedious to set up and keep track of a ever-growing number of user accounts. However, I think user accounts are neccessary in order to build a community in the sense that you can get to know the people (by realnames or pseudonyms), make friends, and can hold people responsible. Even debian uses a strict system of user accounts for this purpose.

    Greetings,
    probono

  3. #3
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    I think user accounts are neccessary in order to build a community in the sense that you can get to know the people (by realnames or pseudonyms), make friends, and can hold people responsible.
    so true... if you have a comunity of people, you can do alot... for example, the help forum... only a community of people would help this one person...

    would you help an enemy or a friend if you had to choos? (retorical, i was hoping to express a point)... and now i think i went off the point... but, hay that me... merry christmas, and a happy new year.

  4. #4
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    Symantics, mostly...

    "message board" or "forum", "book" or "referance manual", etc... This is a, by reason of how you "post", a message board. BUT, these are "forums". This being "posted" in "The Lounge" forum. I dont have a dictionary around to "quote" this, but, I think a "forum" is a place to contain a topic, or related topics.

    Hence, each "set" of topics is given a nice "group" -=- General Support, Networking, Laptop, Games, The Lounge, etc... This "grouping" allows for related topics and discussions to be found in a "same" related location... or a FORUM for discussion...

    As for "membership", or having to have "user accounts" -=- I think it breeds "accountability", and a sense of "responsibility", for what someone "posts" or says. I have seen "open" posted sites move to this, from not requiring anyone to be a "member", to having to be a member of the site. From the obvious reasons; It cuts down on the "signal to noise" ratio ( a common term given to any site that has topics, forums, of posted messages; signal represents the amount of good, or real posts, to the noise, which represents the amount of "junk" or non-related messages, or posts. )

    Signal to noise can be measured in almost anything, but, it mostly relates to Chat Rooms, Message Boards, and Forums. A good example of this "signal to noise" ratio, is the old favorite, MAC and PC sites. Someone, usually a person who creates a "fake" account to gain access to the "Forum", posts a "flamed" message, or a "flamed" chat expression, in a location that is not "topic related" to the location. As my example: a person posts something like "PC's are better than MAC's!" into a forum for MAC discussions, or vice-versa. The "signal" on the site was at normal, discussions on related topics, at which point, after this "noise" is introduced into the "signal", the forum goes through mass reprocussions till the original "signal" is brought back to normal...

    A true "signal to noise" person, is one, who, is not frequent of that site, does not post very much, has a generalized nickname; like TEMPORARY, or GUEST, and probably, will never be seen again, AFTER the inflammed posted "noise" is introduced, on that site... I think the Site Administrator is smart in the way that; you must be a "member" to post, accountability. When you post, your nickname is posted with that, responsibility. And, that when you post, your "posted messages" is maintained with your "account".

    I, for one, do not post anything, nor, say anything, that "I" will not be "held to" what I said. If I post, its either from the "heart" or from what I believe. I can be proven wrong, but, that leads to "discussions", proofs and learning, and growth, but not for the intent of "flamming"...

    Being from a "job" that entailed "Tech Support", I dont enrage, I dont antogonize, I help. I dont flame, I dont argue, I discuss. And, lastly, I dont say, or do anything, that I can not be held accountable for saying, or doing. I see the "membership" or "user account" issue, here, as a way of "keeping the peace", and for people who want that, a nice environment for discussions, or "topic related assistance", it does just that... The only time I have had to "step in" and do my "Moderator" duties, is when, they had the "membership required to post" wall, down. I think the "other" moderators may be able to back me up on this one.

    People come to these forums, in dire emergencies, in a time, where they are not always, at there best, in need of assistance, as is the "usual" case when dealing with any "tech support" arena. Something broke, or something isnt working, or something isnt doing what it should, and they need some helpful assistance on What do I do? -=- The Forum "topics" have been set up to facilitate, hopefully, them knowing where they can go, or ask, for the assistance they need.... and, hopefully, get a response, or answer, in a "helpful", and "friendly", environment. I would hate to be "associated" with a site that wouldnt do that; where someone who is at there wits end, frustrated, and about to toss, a very expensive piece of equipment, out the window, and possibly, to land on some "poor, unsuspecting" person who might be walking below there window. I think these "FORUMS" provide that assistance. I think, many, people have posted "I'm going to kill someone if I cant get this to work" posts, and I WOULD HOPE, that no one just responded saying: Here is the rope! or Here is the gun!

    Kind of reminds me of the old joke... Suicide Provention Help Line... and then "please hold", or worse, the person at the "Help Line" gives them IDEAS on how they can succeed or accomplish there task; you have a gun? good... Now, point the end at your forehead, and slowly, very slowly, pull the trigger... ( I'll wait to your finished, to be sure you get it right... ) -=- BANG!!!! -=- You still there? YES? Ok, lets try another way...

    Having worked at a VERY well known "company", and being one of "there" representatives, given the responsibility to assist and help others with that "companies" product... I can attest, I never ditched a customer, I never had a customer do something that I knew would trash there system, and I never had a customer do something that I; one, didnt know would fix the problem, or, two, didnt know I would have done to my own system for the problem they were having... I do the same here... I would never tell someone that "formatting there system drive", would solve a printer related problem, though, I have heard, some at the "company" I worked for, did. I would never leave a customer because the problem they were having was taking more than two minutes to solve, or fix, without the problem being resolved first. Which, I might add, was a VERY common thing to do in this "company"... Someone having a modem related issue, would "frequently" be "ditched", by having them change something ludicious, like force the "transmit speed" on there internet connection modem settings to a slower, or faster, speed, and have them test it to see if there modem worked now... Of course the customer only had one phone line, and when they clicked on the connection, it would terminate the phone conversation... The Tech Representative only hoped that they didnt get them, again, after they find there problem wasnt resolved, and they were calling back in again. Unfortunately, I was the one they always seemed to get. I was the representative they always got, I was the one with the longest call times, I was the one who always got "call monitored" during all of my calls, and I was the one, time, and time again, who was given the "praises" for assisting the customer, in resolving there issue, or problem, and I was the one, the "company" always praised for helping, resolving, and "defussing" the customers anger of being "ditched" by all the others. My peers always found that I could solve the customers issues, in not only a timely mannor, but, in a way that the customer could follow, understand, and without any "attituide" attached.

    The "company" performed hundreds of "call-back customer surveys" on the people I had helped, and not one, had anything bad, or negligent, or even wasting of time, to say about my help they received from my assistance.

    Considering that this is The Lounge, and the "topic forum" being open, I had one guy, who called because he had just installed our new Operating System, and was stuck at the "No System Disk, please insert a bootable system disk, and press any key..." message... He had just done a "COMPLETE" full install of our OS, and wasnt able to boot his system now... I knew what he needed, and how we needed to resolve the issue. He needed a bootable floppy, preferably one that was created during the install of the OS... He opted NOT to do this... He was on a ship, in the middle of the ocean, and with no one else on the ship who owned a computer. What we needed to do: boot to that "system" floppy, and perform a SYS C: command, preferably AFTER he dissabled the BOOT SECTOR VIRUS PROTECTION he must have had enabled in his BIOS. No floppy, he didnt want to have to go through "another" install, and he wouldnt look for anyone else to get a boot disk from; either from a computer dealer, or on the ship... He was SOL, I knew it, and, I think he did too, but, he refused to understand that I couldnt do anything else for him, not unless he can get a boot floppy...

    So, tmp000, you want to call this a message board, and not a forum... I dont think so...

    Quote Originally Posted by dictionary.com
    forum Pronunciation Key (frm, fr-)
    n. pl. forums, also fora (fr, fr)

    1.
    1. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
    2. A public meeting place for open discussion.
    3. A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.
    2. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
    3. A court of law; a tribunal.
    I think; 1.2, 1.3, and lastly 2, in the above quote, relavates the usage of the word "Forum" for what is being done here, in whole, or part. I think the Site Administrator is correct to have used the "term" forum, or forums to describe this site, and its usage...

    Thank you,
    Ms. Cuddles

  5. #5
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    Re: "forum" versus "board"

    Quote Originally Posted by tmp000
    I'd ask that the labels on this site get fixed - change all occourences of "forum" to "board". You are obviously only running a discussion board here, this is something different.

    Of course this lie is intentional, as "forum" sounds much more appealing than "board" to many many people. The reason is, that most web users already have stumbled across so many of the latter class and besides what the "webmasters" try to think, they aren't cool in any way - a discussion hinderance to say the least. Ah yes, popularity and superiority are two different things (see Windows and Linux)!

    Why do I sound so impolite here?

    Easily answered, I'm frustrated that so many web sites still look like 1996 - forcing me to get yet another user account (had already trashed a hundred elsewhere) on a _discussion board_ that I only use once is somewhat impolite. This is not in the open source spirit at all, regardless of how you paint it or which pseudo excuses you have for that oh-we-need-to-build-a-community-with-many-thousand-user-accounts attitude.
    "forum" "board" .....who cares?

    "forcing me to get another user account..." is a minor inconvenience with a big plus in that knowing who's who is what makes a community.

    I've overcome the problem of remembering user names & passwords the easy way; I'm "CrashedAgain" everywhere I can be and I always use the same password. I don't see this as a security issue, I never give out much identification when setting up as a user and after all, it's merely a message board (oops forum). What's some hacker going to do with the password anyway, log on as me & give out bad advice? Not much of a risk.

  6. #6
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    What CrashedAgain said.

    C'mon, dude, can't you find something more interesting to complain about?

  7. #7
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    What CrashedAgain said.

    C'mon, dude, can't you find something more interesting to complain about?
    because i can...
    *complaining voice* My dog has bad breath

  8. #8
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    tmp000,

    Seems Ms Cuddles posted the dictionary part of what i was going to post, but i will repeat it anyway.

    Also, your suggestion is stupid really, i wonder
    what other non-brilliant ideas go on in that
    head of yours tmp000 . Hoping you know that no
    offence is actually meant there, but when a
    case for the probable need for "electro shock therapy"
    is evident ... well, i think it should be pointed
    out.


    "The Concise Oxford Dictionary" ...

    forum:

    Public place, market-place, place of assembly for
    judicial and other business. Place of or meeting
    for public discussion; periodical etc, giving
    opportunity for debate etc; court, tribunal.


    >>
    You are obviously only running a discussion board
    here ...
    >>

    Which by definition, is a "forum"



    >>
    Of course this lie is intentional ...
    >>

    An inadequately researched conclusion, based
    totally on your own, somewhat limited perceptions.
    Not to mention its' inherently insulting. To
    say it sounds more appealing is also drawing
    a presumptive, and so biased, conclusion.


    >>
    Why do I sound so impolite here?

    Easily answered, I'm frustrated that so many
    web sites still look like 1996 - forcing me to
    get yet another user account (had already trashed
    a hundred elsewhere) on a _discussion board_
    that I only use once is somewhat impolite.
    >>

    So, your frustrated by simple responsibility.
    I hope you can maintain your own finances with
    a little more skill.

    Basically, that doesn't make much sense really.
    You mean you can't see why different sites would require a separate account
    ???.

    And what does 1996 actually look like, anyway ?,
    and what is 2004/2005 supposed to look like.
    Some personal conceit of your own it would seem.
    I think if you were to ask SCO, they would say
    that the "look" for 2005, really should include
    the lable "licenced by SCO inc" :rool:


    >>
    This is not in the open source spirit at all,
    regardless of how you paint it or which pseudo
    excuses you have for that oh-we-need-to-build
    -a-community-with-many-thousand-user-accounts
    attitude.
    >>

    More rubbish. Maybe if they (?) just culled the
    web down to one site, you might find life a
    bit easier then :rool:

    And what has it got to do with "Open Source Spirit",
    the idea of an account is to legitimise a
    poster. Otherwise you would find a lot of people
    would abuse the privaledge/opportunity to post on a public forum. It's a
    kind of ant-troll attempt. It would seem that your
    the one doing all the painting here .


    Originally "forums" were more along the lines of
    "boards". The web was more of a domain used by
    academics. They would post queries and statements
    with the intention to just generally announce
    various issues, as well as accessing
    data-bases. This wouldn't necessarily involve
    the intention of stimulating on-line debate,
    though, that too was possible. A "board", as
    such, is basically an announcement area. As
    popularity increased though, there has been a
    subtle separation between the two, and a subtle
    merging. Both "forums" and "boards" tend to operate
    along similar lines, with sub-catagories included.

    The distinction is more historical than anything
    else. Is that it ?, you just lack a certain history.
    And so, find it hard to see the point ...

    Ouch

    jm

  9. #9
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    I stand by what I said...

    Considering that tmp000 has only posted two times this "highly intelligent" topic, and another, just as... (I wont go there, just to keep the peace) in the klik FORUM... and nothing else, not even replies to this topic that they had started... No other posts since December 25th, when they started these two topics, of which, were started only fifteen minutes away from each other...

    tmp000 has, probably, accomplished just what they wanted... The "signal to noise" ratio has been shifted, and the FORUM, and all of its "inhabitants" are spending more time on there "topic" than to assist on "real" topics... If this is going to turn out, with a "valid" person, the probable "exuse" will be: Someone "borrowed" my account, probably a "youngster" who was having "fun", and the "owner", didnt realize this

    tmp000 has increased the noise, and they probably wont ever be back again, unless, they want to come back, and check out how "much" they inflicted there damage on the FORUM, or, they want to START another noise topic...

    I would suggest, that no one respond, or reply, to this "thread" until tmp000 has "graced" us, with there return... Maybe the "signal" can be returned to its original state...

    Ms. Cuddles

  10. #10
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    Oooops, so many words on such a topic.

    Ms. Cuddles, please forgive me if I haven't studied your lengthy reply (but please put it in the board FAQ, to replace the unhelpful vanilla "why do I need to register" paragraph).

    But back on topic. Despite the definitions you all tried to bring up, there is a very simple technical difference between forums and discussion boards. One is threaded, and the other isn't. (I'm sure this will yield another twenty replies of the we-don't-need-or-want-it and but-it's-easier-so sort). However there is no "fluffiness" in these terms - everybody can easily tell them appart. Any forum software can be made to look like a board, the other way round is not possible.

    The real difference between these two incarnations of discussion software is however the way it is often made available to the public. Discussion boards appeal to 1996-weary webmasters, and are MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more frequently locked down, because passwords and user accounts are still perceived as so uber cool.

    But back on topic. Like most of you already concluded, the point behind user accounts is, that you can build a community and get to know each other. What nobody of you however considered, what eventually nobody of you knows(?) - you can have forum or discussion board software which provides user names without user accounts. Mind you, this is possible. It simply means that people can more easily post, choose their name freely, and register it eventually if they discovered that the forum or board brought some value to them, and they'd like to protect their user name therefore. It's about choice.

    Since you all will try to refute this, I must probably give some "prove" here. Have a look at http://forum.de.selfhtml.org/ (use Babelfish) - user names may be choosen freely there, and people make use of it. Despite the concers Ms. Cuddles already expressed, people don't only use names like "Guest" or "Anonymous". They are given choice, and more often they use that choice to use their real names. Mind you.

    So why didn't I choose my real name here, and used a useless and unwelcome guest account (with a password of "000000", btw)? Eventually because I don't care for <blink>free</blink> user accounts, like I already said?

    I also run some open source projects. Besides that the software and site already is a Wiki (password-less freely editable sites, and yes it works), the sourceforge project _forums_ (no that aren't just boards) are also open post. You don't need a user account to post there. We try to be helpful, and that means not building any hurdles, support is free and doesn't require giving out an email address to strangers. And what again happens, people that do not have a SFnet account post notes and ask questions and undersign it. A phenomen?

    The point I try to make is, you have choosen the wrong software, and I came to believe that this was intentional (many people seem to believe that a thousand user passwords make a site safer or so?). Closed post boards are no good advertisments for the OS community IMO.

    Cheers,
    mario

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