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Thread: How shall I migrate to the DVD version?

  1. #11
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    Facts from my point of view , OK fine, my opinions.

    Knoppix cloop is compressed to a 100%:37% ratio. When making remastered CDs I typically see a compression rate of 37% or 38%. This means that a resulting KNOPPIX cloop of 695MB is close to 1850MB uncompressed. Based on the fact that mkisofs & ISO 9660 limits any single file in the filesystem to 2GB. So a KNOPPIX cloop file on a DVD is going to be at or just under 2GB. Assuming the compression rate is still around 37%, then Reverse the compression & it is roughly 5.5GB uncompressed. Still not enough for the whole Debian repository but that is simply HUGE compared to what a CD can hold.

    I hope they have made 2GB DVD ISO image & not have made it bigger. I am gonna kick myself someday for saying this, but I think 5.5 uncompressed is enough for everyone.

    I noticed the linked package list & I am impressed. Knoppix 4.0 will include both KDE 3.4.1 & GNOME 2.8.

  2. #12
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    ... is enough for everyone :-)

    And nobody will ever need more than 640 kByte RAM. Ask Bill Gates.

    ... Reverse the compression & it is roughly 5.5GB uncompressed.
    As already mentioned, it is over 9 gig out of debian.

  3. #13
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    Re: ... is enough for everyone :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by dakota
    As already mentioned, it is over 9 gig out of debian.
    Ouch thats big!

  4. #14
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    Probably a bad suggestion...

    Well you could try downloading it to the external drive, remastering it (I assume if there's that much space then alot of those programs can be done without) and trying to transfer to the FAT drive and burn it that way. I dunno if I'm describing it right, I've never done a remaster myself but if it has KDE AND Gnome is it possible to get rid of one? Getting rid of 700 megabytes of compressed space is probably quite a challenge but possible.

    Other than that, there are some things you can buy which house an external drive in a case that makes it internal. If knoppix didn't recognize it externally, maybe it'll recognize it internally.

  5. #15
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    No Panic!

    You'll have no problem at all!

    KNOPPIX still has the 2 GB limit on the CD, because of the iso9660 filesystem restrictions.

    What to do then?

    Easy: Split it to _two_ KNOPPIX images. KNOPPIX and KNOPPIX2.

    I guess (though I have not tried) that it'll also work with tohd and fromhd, so there should be no problem extracting it from the ISO without burning it and using the light version to boot the maxi one. Even from FAT partitions.

    cu

    Fabian, Happy Owner of Knoppix 4.0 Linuxtag DVD sitting on Klaus Knoppers PC

  6. #16
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    Re: How shall I migrate to the DVD version?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman
    The DVD version of Knoppix is fast approaching and I just realized that I'm likely to have a problem. How am I going to download and make that new DVD?

    I do have a DVD burner, that's not the problem. But it's on my Win98 system. The one with all FAT partitions on the hard disk. The one that can't have files larger than 4 gig. If The Knoppix DVD iso is larger than 4 gig, how am I going to burn it?
    .
    I think I have a solution for you, if your linux cd/dvd recorder setup is functional (i.e. cdrecord/2.6 kernel complications haven't been causing CD burning headaches for you).

    It uses an lvm2/dmsetup approach: from your debian installation, create two loop devices on your FAT drive and join the two loop devices using dmsetup. I am attaching a sample script for doing this, please adopt it to suit your needs, and use judiciously.

    After you set the variables and run the script, you can download the massive DVD iso on to the $MTPT directory (as you define in the script), and then burn it from linux using k3b or some other program.

    I only recently learned of this rather well kept-secret of lvm2. It gives powerful ways to create volumes. Very nice!

    Hope it works for you, and please post your adventures here.

    Code:
    #!/bin/sh -x
    #
    # How to create an LVM2 volume
    # using two loop devices
    # (can be easily extended to more than 2 loop devices)
    # Ideas from:
    # http://www.tldp.org/LDP/LGNET/114/kapil.html
    # https://wiki.ubuntu.com//LiveCDPersistence
    #
    # This script creates two image files
    # in the specified directory (KDIR variable)
    # of specified size (LOOP_SIZE variable below),
    # mounts them as loop devices, merges them using
    # device mapper, creates an ext2 filesystem
    # on the resulting volume, and finally mounts it
    # on the mount point $KDIR/mnt
    
    # setting LOOP_SIZE to 2560 gives a combined
    # volume (with two images) of exactly 5GB, but the filesystem
    # headers may eat up a sizeable chunk of it
    # so, adjust it as necessary
    
    KDIR=/C/knx40 # directory where the image files are to be created
    MTPT=$KDIR/mnt # mount point for the logical volume
    # set the size of each loop device image in MB
    LOOP_SIZE=2560
    # other variables
    IM1=$KDIR/part1.img 
    IM2=$KDIR/part2.img
    LP1=/dev/loop1
    LP2=/dev/loop2
    DVOL=snap
    TBLFL=/tmp/dmsetup_table1
    CHUNK_SIZE=8 # sectors
    
    # the programs and modules
    apt-get install dmsetup
    modprobe dm_mod
    modprobe dm_snapshot
    
    [ ! -d $KDIR ] && mkdir $KDIR
    [ ! -d $MTPT ] && mkdir $MTPT
    
    dd if=/dev/zero of=$IM1 bs=1M count=$LOOP_SIZE
    dd if=/dev/zero of=$IM2 bs=1M count=$LOOP_SIZE
    losetup $LP1 $IM1
    losetup $LP2 $IM2
    SZ1=$(blockdev --getsize $LP1)
    SZ2=$(blockdev --getsize $LP2) # redundant in this case, but just in case
    # SZ1plus2=$(expr $SZ1 + $SZ2)
    echo 0 $SZ1 linear $LP1 0 > $TBLFL
    echo $SZ1 $SZ2 linear $LP2 0 >> $TBLFL
    # echo $SZ1plus2 $SZ3 linear $LP3 0 >> $TBLFL
    dmsetup create $DVOL $TBLFL
    #echo "0 $SZ1 snapshot $LP1 $LP2 p $CHUNK_SIZE" | dmsetup create $DVOL
    mke2fs /dev/mapper/$DVOL
    
    mount /dev/mapper/$DVOL $MTPT
    df $KDIR/mnt
    
    exit 0
    
    # device deletion script
    # cut and save as a separate script
    # and then run it when the volume is no longer needed
    # running it
    #!/bin/sh -x
    
    KDIR=/C/knx40
    MTPT=$KDIR/mnt
    IM1=$KDIR/part1.img 
    IM2=$KDIR/part2.img
    LP1=/dev/loop1
    LP2=/dev/loop2
    DVOL=snap
    TBLFL=/tmp/dmsetup_table1
    
    umount $MTPT
    dmsetup remove $DVOL
    losetup -d $LP1
    losetup -d $LP2
    
    # uncomment as needed
    # be careful!
    # rm -f $IM1
    # rm -f $IM2
    # rm -rf $MTPT $KDIR

  7. #17
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    Re: How shall I migrate to the DVD version?

    Quote Originally Posted by tablet_guy
    Hope it works for you, and please post your adventures here.
    Well, any effort is going to wait until an Official release of the DVD ISO. I'm not going for the current ISOs popping up. But you completely lost me at from your debian installation, create two loop devices on your FAT drive and join the two loop devices using dmsetup. I have no idea what that even means in English. It's not likely to happen for another reason too, my Debain install is not on the system that has the DVD burner. So if I burn the ISO it will have to be from Win98 or from a live CD (likely Knoppix). There are both a CDRW and a DVD burner on this system, so I hope I can boot Knoppix from the CD and then burn on the DVD.

    Fabianx gives us a reason to expect that this will not be a problem and we'll be able to do it all from Win98 and a FAT partition. But the proof is yet to be seen.

    I will post back my results at burning, but many people may be too busy playing with their new Knoppix systems to read them by then.

  8. #18
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    Um, Harry, how many hard drives do you have in that Win98-based system of yours?

    Parallel ATA hard drives are out; serial ATA is in. That means they're clearing out the old hard drive models for ridiculous prices. For example, you can get a 200GB Seagate UATA drive from Fry's for $75 after the rebate. That's cheap.

    Buy a second hard drive, and install some version of Linux on it. Problem solved.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by eco2geek
    Um, Harry, how many hard drives do you have in that Win98-based system of yours?

    Parallel ATA hard drives are out; serial ATA is in. That means they're clearing out the old hard drive models for ridiculous prices. For example, you can get a 200GB Seagate UATA drive from Fry's for $75 after the rebate. That's cheap.

    Buy a second hard drive, and install some version of Linux on it. Problem solved.
    Actually, I have 3, as well as the 2 optical media writers. And a hard drive tray that indeed might end up holding a drive for Debian. Unfortunately, the 200 gig drive is not an option, this hardware has the 128 gig limit (thus the 3 smaller drives). But Fabianx's answer is still the most promising, sounds like I may not have to add anything. Sure don't want to buy a small drive, better to save my sheckels and be closer to a new system and new large hard drive when the time comes.

  10. #20
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    I did not see this posted, but I believe that Azureus can chop up the download into several files. I was using Bit Tornado the other day and cruising at 1350kbps on my ADSL and about finished at 3.99G when the program went belly up at 4.00G, fat32 limitation. That download had taken less than an hour. I almost croaked; that was the best time ever, probably due to a lot of T3 connections and few on the take. The next attempt on an NTFS partition took almost 24 hours, but I finally got it.

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