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Thread: How shall I migrate to the DVD version?

  1. #1
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    How shall I migrate to the DVD version?

    The DVD version of Knoppix is fast approaching and I just realized that I'm likely to have a problem. How am I going to download and make that new DVD?

    I do have a DVD burner, that's not the problem. But it's on my Win98 system. The one with all FAT partitions on the hard disk. The one that can't have files larger than 4 gig. If The Knoppix DVD iso is larger than 4 gig, how am I going to burn it?

    I do have XP, but it's on my notebook, with a combo CDRW writer and DVD reader there. Can't make my DVD there. Of course, I can boot Knoppix on the desktop with the DVD writer, but I'll still have the FAT file sizes to deal with.

    What should I do? Can I pull off downloading the ISO into XP (unfortunately, I shrunk my NTFS partition to make space for a Linux campatable FAT partition on the small notebook hard disk and don't have enough space for a >4 gig download there now) and somehow burn a DVD with Knoppix from a shared file across the network? That seems like an invitation to buffer underruns, even with burn-proof technology. Or is there an obvious solution I'm missing? I sure don't want to get XP for this old desktop just to burn a Knoppix DVD.

    Of course, the first Knoppix DVD iso might be less than 4 gig, but I don't expect it, unless it were done that way exactly because of the problem I've stated. I rather expect though that the focus will be on packing every application they can onto that DVD. I just hope it includes all of the great games that have vanished from the ISO since I saw my first 3.1 version.

    Maybe I can figure out a way to shrink a partition on the desktop system and then make a Linux partition that will not have the 4 gig limit. Use Knoppix to download the ISO to it and hope that Knoppix supports my Dual Layer Benq DVD burner. Sure wish that Knoppix contained one of the newer versions of Bittorrent though, the new versions download cleanly for me, the old versions overwhelm my upload capacity and as a result the download grinds to a halt (that will sure be an issue getting a popular DVD size download).

  2. #2
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    Hmm, that sucks.

    The easiest solution (but expensive) I figured out is buying an External Harddisk (>$80)

  3. #3
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    If you have extra dvd rw's lying around, you could backup a partition on the desktop and make it ext3. After downloading and burning just reformat fat and put the files back. Easier at least than burning over a network. Timeconsuming though.

  4. #4
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    DVD-burning under W98

    Why not download it on your Laptop, and burn it over the network? Don't know wheather your burningsoftware can do it, but there are tool taht can burn with a burner in another PC over the network. When you dont make haste (e.g. burn it as single speed DVD ) there won't be any bufferunderuns for sure.

    Like you already guessed right, the iso won't be too small, since there are over 9 gig software from the debian-pool in the next Knoppix release.
    And the cloop-Compression is no "wonder-in-a-box" that shrinks it until there is nothing left for the single-sided-DVD...

    Wheather your beloved games are in once more, you can have a look under ftp://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/linux/knoppi...ges-4.0dvd.txt if you know the old package-names.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by OP4Latino
    Hmm, that sucks.

    The easiest solution (but expensive) I figured out is buying a External Harddisk (>$80)
    Actually, I'm thinking that might be the fix too, and although I didn't mention it, I already have one.

    I had a serious problem with it when I used it with both the Win98 and XP systems though. I had put two FAT partitions on it from the Win98 system. I moved it to the XP system and read and wrote some files. But when I moved back to the Win98 system I found that the partitions were severaly corrupted and all of the files were lost!!! Lost from the XP view at that point too. I've pulled the drive and have been trying various recovery techniques on-and-off fom the Win98 system, but so far have recivered very little.

    I had seen a somewhat similar problem when I made a multi-boot Win95/Win98 system years ago. The problem tracked down to our good friends at Microsoft doing different LBA translations in each OS. So for certain capacity drives that used LBA, the sectors didn't map quite the same. In that case the problem only showed itself after I reached a certain block address on the drive, so I could fill it about 80% full of files before I destroyed everything with the LBA issue between the different OSs.

    So after corrupting yet anoher hard drive with two different MS OSs, I decided to format the next disk as NTFS and just use the external drive with the XP notebook. That was the primary reason for getting it anyway, but it would have been nice to be able to move it between the desktop system and the notebook. But I can't afford to destroy another disk full f files doing so.

    Since Knoppix can mount the NTFS partition read-only, it should be safe to move the hard drive over to this system and mount the NTFS partition from Knoppix. I would likely download the ISO with Bittorrent on the XP system (to avoid the older version of Bittorrent on Knoppix that gives me problems), and if it is over 4 gig then move the external hard drive to the desktop system system and try to burn the DVD from Knoppix. This still presents a couple of questions: Will Knoppix see my firewire external hard drive (it should but I've never had occasion to test that), and will it be able to burn to my new model DVD burner, and from an ISO out on the firewire drive? But it seems likely it may be the best approach I have available to me at this point.

    I should also mention that my desktop system and a few other test systems I also keep running (including my Debian hard drive install system) all have one hard drive in a removable hard drive tray, so swapping hard drives between systems (other than the notebook) isn't a big issue. Can't put the firewire hard disk into the tray though, it's larger capacity than the hardware on the other systems will support.

  6. #6
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    Re: DVD-burning under W98

    Quote Originally Posted by dakota
    Why not download it on your Laptop, and burn it over the network? Don't know wheather your burningsoftware can do it,....
    Yup, I don't know either. It's another option to consider, if it works. I'm using Nero 6 as the burning tool (own a copy of NTI as well, and did get an update from their website that provided drivers for my DVD drive, so that will be another thing to try if Nero has issues). One issue about the burning will be that I'll likely have to have the ISO on a firewire box on the notebook, I shrunk the NTFS primary partition down to just what was needed for XP and the clutter that came on the notebook to make space for a Knoppix friendly FAT. So the burn will have to happen both across firewire and the network. In transfering files back and forth this way I can tell you it's not particularly fast. I guess I'll know in a few weeks if it's fast enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by dakota
    Like you already guessed right, the iso won't be too small, since there are over 9 gig software from the debian-pool in the next Knoppix release.
    Yea, but there are said to be about 2 gigs of files on the 700 meg Knoppix CD. So 9 gig is cutting it close to the 4 gig FAT file size limit. Still, I betting thet they will not waste that extra space and the ISO will exceed the FAT limit.

    Quote Originally Posted by dakota
    Wheather your beloved games are in once more, you can have a look under ftp://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/linux/knoppi...ges-4.0dvd.txt if you know the old package-names.
    Unfortunately, I don't remember package names. Not sure I even ever knew the package names. I do remember there was a nice Pool game that vanished after the first Knoppix CD I saw. And a lot of arcade type games seemed to vanish shortly after that. Maybe I'll have to dust off an old 3.1 CD and take a look. Is there a way I can determine the package name from looking at the CD and the game itself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman
    I had seen a somewhat similar problem when I made a multi-boot Win95/Win98 system years ago. The problem tracked down to our good friends at Microsoft doing different LBA translations in each OS. So for certain capacity drives that used LBA, the sectors didn't map quite the same. In that case the problem only showed itself after I reached a certain block address on the drive, so I could fill it about 80% full of files before I destroyed everything with the LBA issue between the different OSs.
    I don't know if the LBA that you are mentioning is the same media descriptor byte that MS is mentioning here Floppy Disk is Not Accessible, Not Formatted, or Not Recognized by Windows

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman
    Will Knoppix see my firewire external hard drive
    For some reasons Kno 3.8 and up have a hard time to detect my USB and firewire devices, incluing my External HD. (I haven't make a post yet, but I will in a future). My workaround is start Kno and unplug/replug the device.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman
    and will it be able to burn to my new model DVD burner, and from an ISO out on the firewire drive?
    I have burned ISOs from the External HD before, but I don't know about your DVD burner.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman
    I shrunk the NTFS primary partition down
    How did you do it without loose your data? Did you use a paid software?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OP4Latino
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman
    I shrunk the NTFS primary partition down
    How did you do it without loose your data? Did you use a paid software?
    maybe he did but I know that Knoppix includes qtparted which interfaces with all the filsystem tools like mke2fs & ntfresize. The key to resizing a NTFS partition is to first scan disk it. Next defrag it. Then disable the Windows Virtual Memory & this will delete the swap file. Then boot knoppix & use qtparted to resize the ntfs partition. Boot back into windows & then either windows will detect the C: drive changed & will issue its own scan disk (in a Blue Screen) or you must issue a scan disk manually. Then enable Windows Virtual Memory which will rewrite the swap file.

    Of course, There is ALWAYS some risk of losing data. Please ALWAYS make sure that you have a working backup of your important data prior to
    experimenting with ANY new software, no matter if Windows, Linux or anything else.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by OP4Latino
    I don't know if the LBA that you are mentioning is the same media descriptor byte that MS is mentioning here Floppy Disk is Not Accessible, Not Formatted, or Not Recognized by Windows
    Nope. That was an interesting link, I wasn't aware of that issue, but it seems to be a different issue. What I saw between Win95 and Win98 was a LBA issue (Logical Block Addressing, a hack that has been added because modern drives had too many real cylinders to fit in with the MS way of accessing hard drives). It should not affect floppy drives. I'm guessing, but only guessing, that what corrupted the FAT partition between Win98 and XP was also an LBA issue. But whatever it was, it's there, and I don't move drives between Win98 and XP any more.


    Quote Originally Posted by OP4Latino
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Kuhman
    Will Knoppix see my firewire external hard drive
    For some reasons Kno 3.8 and up have a hard time to detect my USB and firewire devices, incluing my External HD. (I haven't make a post yet, but I will in a future). My workaround is start Kno and unplug/replug the device.
    Thanks for that tip. I may also try just backing up to my 3.7 copy of Knoppix and hope that it supports the DVD burner.

    Quote Originally Posted by OP4Latino
    I have burned ISOs from the External HD before, but I don't know about your DVD burner.
    Nor do I. Coud experiment now but I might as well wait until I have the ISO. Just considering all my options at this point since it looks like I'll have to put a bit more work into this than I normally do to burn an ISO.

    Quote Originally Posted by OP4Latino
    How did you do it without loose your data? Did you use a paid software?
    Unfortunately, yes. I have a friend that owns a copy of Partition Magic. Since it was a notebook system it was easy enough to carry it to his place and shrink the partition. Made a backup first though, always a good move when doing stuff like that.

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